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Jonathan Stewart (2 Viewers)

Stewart played through turf toe last season. It was still bothering him all the way through the bowl game.

People who cite Dixon as the cause of Stewart's success might want to take a closer look at Dixon's college career. I owned him in my college dynasty league for his entire career. He wasn't an impact player until 2007. He wasn't even the full-time starter in 2006. Citing Dennis Dixon as the cause for Jonathan Stewart's success just means you don't know much about Oregon football. Stewart was considered the better prospect entering Oregon and is considered the better prospect leaving Oregon. He had a solid YPC average in 2006 when Dixon was mediocre.

Anyhow, using a player's college career to predict his NFL success is kind of pointless since almost every elite prospect had a great college career. I pointed this out in another thread, but when you look at college production you'll see that Forsett, Forte, Rice, Slaton, Stewart, Mendenhall, Charles, Choice, Smith and Johnson were all dominant players. Obviously they're not all going to succeed in the NFL. Stats are important, but you also have to look beyond the numbers.

I agree and if there's a back we should worry about due to his QB in the option game, it's Mendenhall. Unlike the Oregon tandem, Mendenhall benefited greatly on outside runs due to the option. Stewart often got to the outside on his own.

I know the combine measurements show Mendenhall is faster with running in a straight line than Stewart, but with the pads on I didn't see that speed translate very well with perimeter runs except when I. Williams was able to hold onto the ball long enough to draw the defense inside before he pitched it to his teammate well along the edge of the defense.

 
EBF said:
switz said:
The Scientist said:
Stewart ran 4.48 40, had the third most reps on the bench, and the second best Vert Jump. Not to mention he is built to play the position at the NFL level. There are three RB's above the rest in this years class IMO. Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden.

2 are built to play the part while one lacks leg drive and vision IMO. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't break tackles in the NFL you won't break long runs.
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
:lmao: Stewart had arguably the best overall combine numbers when you factor in all of the drills. He had a sick 10'8" long jump, a very solid 36.5" vert, a very solid 4.48 40, and an outstanding 28 reps on the bench.

It's laughable to see you cite his 40 time as a negative since you were a big Marshawn Lynch fan and Stewart's 40 time is .04 seconds faster than Lynch's best time at last year's combine. You're obviously just looking for reasons to justify your skepticism here.
Very :unsure:
 
I agree and if there's a back we should worry about due to his QB in the option game, it's Mendenhall. Unlike the Oregon tandem, Mendenhall benefited greatly on outside runs due to the option. Stewart often got to the outside on his own. I know the combine measurements show Mendenhall is faster with running in a straight line than Stewart, but with the pads on I didn't see that speed translate very well with perimeter runs except when I. Williams was able to hold onto the ball long enough to draw the defense inside before he pitched it to his teammate well along the edge of the defense.
When watching Mendenhall that is one concern I have with him. I agree 100% with you there.
 
EBF said:
switz said:
The Scientist said:
Stewart ran 4.48 40, had the third most reps on the bench, and the second best Vert Jump. Not to mention he is built to play the position at the NFL level. There are three RB's above the rest in this years class IMO. Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden.

2 are built to play the part while one lacks leg drive and vision IMO. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't break tackles in the NFL you won't break long runs.
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
:scared: Stewart had arguably the best overall combine numbers when you factor in all of the drills. He had a sick 10'8" long jump, a very solid 36.5" vert, a very solid 4.48 40, and an outstanding 28 reps on the bench.

It's laughable to see you cite his 40 time as a negative since you were a big Marshawn Lynch fan and Stewart's 40 time is .04 seconds faster than Lynch's best time at last year's combine. You're obviously just looking for reasons to justify your skepticism here.
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Regardless, I form my opinion from college tape, and then look to the combine for confirmation, not to convince me otherwise.I felt Stewart was a little slow, as I've stated before, and he was. Not only was he nearly 4.5, but he was one of the slowest RBs timed. And I generally look at the times more in relation to the average that day, than as an overall number. Sometimes the track is fast, sometimes it's slow.

 
EBF said:
switz said:
The Scientist said:
Stewart ran 4.48 40, had the third most reps on the bench, and the second best Vert Jump. Not to mention he is built to play the position at the NFL level. There are three RB's above the rest in this years class IMO. Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden.

2 are built to play the part while one lacks leg drive and vision IMO. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't break tackles in the NFL you won't break long runs.
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
:rolleyes: Stewart had arguably the best overall combine numbers when you factor in all of the drills. He had a sick 10'8" long jump, a very solid 36.5" vert, a very solid 4.48 40, and an outstanding 28 reps on the bench.

It's laughable to see you cite his 40 time as a negative since you were a big Marshawn Lynch fan and Stewart's 40 time is .04 seconds faster than Lynch's best time at last year's combine. You're obviously just looking for reasons to justify your skepticism here.
Very ;)
It would be a good posting if it were accurate.
 
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:

2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Lynch's official times last year were 4.52 and 4.55. Link is premium content: http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/624473.html

I felt Stewart was a little slow, as I've stated before, and he was. Not only was he nearly 4.5, but he was one of the slowest RBs timed. And I generally look at the times more in relation to the average that day, than as an overall number. Sometimes the track is fast, sometimes it's slow.
He ran .04 seconds slower than Rashard Mendenhall and .01 seconds than Felix Jones. Do you also think those guys are slow?You're probably the first person I can ever remember citing a 4.48 40 time as a reason to downgrade a 230+ pound RB.

Frankly, the fact that you compare Stewart to Duckett just tells me you probably haven't seen him play much.

 
Frankly, the fact that you compare Stewart to Duckett just tells me you probably haven't seen him play much.
That comparison was based on Duckett being ranked as a top-3 back when he came out, and people touting his size as the reason he'd be successful. All I keep hearing about Stewart is how big he is, how that's a good thing. There is such a thing as being too big.
 
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:

2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Lynch's official times last year were 4.52 and 4.55. Link is premium content: http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/624473.html

I felt Stewart was a little slow, as I've stated before, and he was. Not only was he nearly 4.5, but he was one of the slowest RBs timed. And I generally look at the times more in relation to the average that day, than as an overall number. Sometimes the track is fast, sometimes it's slow.
He ran .04 seconds slower than Rashard Mendenhall and .01 seconds than Felix Jones. Do you also think those guys are slow?You're probably the first person I can ever remember citing a 4.48 40 time as a reason to downgrade a 230+ pound RB.

Frankly, the fact that you compare Stewart to Duckett just tells me you probably haven't seen him play much.
:lmao:
 
Footballhead said:
I'm wacthing their tapes; McFadden has something that Stewart don't.
yep. chicken legs. No power. No ability to force his way for an extra yard against a LB who is keeping him from moving the chains on 3rd down.
JAA said:
Look, if you watched players like Randy Moss, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, and even Adrian Peterson you watched men amongst boys. It was clear to everyone on the field and during the game who were the great players. McFadden in one of these players. ....*snip*....McFadden is a beast and simply from game tape a better overall/all around player than AP was coming out of school.
I'm sorry, but that is a grotesque exaggeration. Overhyping a player doesn't do him any good. DMac is no beast. He is fast, but comparing him to the likes of Moss, Fitz or AD is just...well...You sound like a USC fan in 2005 hyping Bush for the draft.
KellysHeroes said:
How many touches has he had in 3 yrs.. 1400???? and not one injury.
1400?!?!? Are you drunk?He has had a little more than half that many (831, to be exact), and history is wrought with stud RBs who never got injured in college but went down in the pro's.

Why?

Because the LBs in the pros are as fast as the safeties, but are 40 lbs heavier, and a whole helluva lot meaner.

switz said:
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
WTF? Are you serious? You realize that Stewart is no heavier than Franco Harris, Jim Brown, or Earl Campbell, right? You realize that he was over 2/10ths of a second faster than Emmitt Smith (perhaps you've heard of him?), right?you realize that 4.48 is exactly 15/100th's of a second slower than DMac, right? That's about the depth of a shoulder.

Also note, DMac's legs are about as big as Stewart's forearms.

Wildman said:
Duckett & Stewart?

Please...Stewart is not much better than Ronnie Brown or Ricky Williams. Duckett was close to 250 and a doughboy with very little lateral agility compared to Stewart. Stewart is regarded as a freak of nature by the NIKE SPARQ folks who conduct testing for combine-like measurements. Stewart had one of the better scores you can get for speed, agility, explosiveness...

Plus, you just have to watch the games to see that Stewart and Duckett are nowhere close in a comparison.
I assume you meant "bigger", not "better"? Agreed on all other counts.
 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.

Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.

 
Frankly, the fact that you compare Stewart to Duckett just tells me you probably haven't seen him play much.
That comparison was based on Duckett being ranked as a top-3 back when he came out, and people touting his size as the reason he'd be successful. All I keep hearing about Stewart is how big he is, how that's a good thing. There is such a thing as being too big.
Yes there is such a thing as being too big, but the folks who touted Duckett ignored his lack of agility. Just like folks touting McFadden are ignoring is lack of vision and ability to gain yardage after contact because of his speed. Stewart is getting praise because he has the agility of a 205-210 pound back in a 230-lb body and not "he's kinda agile and fast for a big guy in the Ironhead Heyward sense"
 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
May I be a founding member? He scored as high of a grade in my Rookie Scouting Portfolio as any back I've measured thus far. He may not be the most dynamic in every category, but overall he's one of the better runners I've seen.
 
KellysHeroes said:
How many touches has he had in 3 yrs.. 1400???? and not one injury.
1400?!?!? Are you drunk?He has had a little more than half that many (831, to be exact), and history is wrought with stud RBs who never got injured in college but went down in the pro's.Why?Because the LBs in the pros are as fast as the safeties, but are 40 lbs heavier, and a whole helluva lot meaner.It just seems like it was that many... because he always had the ball
 
Here is to hoping that none of the NFL teams with picks 1-17 read this forum.

I am a season ticket holder for Oregon and I sure hope my favorite team (Houston) takes him at #18. Then somehow Houston makes a trade for DeAngelo Hall.

Okay so now im dreaming and most likely Houston takes a CB and maybe Ray Rice in the 2nd round.

 
Here is to hoping that none of the NFL teams with picks 1-17 read this forum.I am a season ticket holder for Oregon and I sure hope my favorite team (Houston) takes him at #18. Then somehow Houston makes a trade for DeAngelo Hall.Okay so now im dreaming and most likely Houston takes a CB and maybe Ray Rice in the 2nd round.
I'd be very happy with Ray Rice, too. Add me to his fan club when they open shop :shock:
 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
May I be a founding member? He scored as high of a grade in my Rookie Scouting Portfolio as any back I've measured thus far. He may not be the most dynamic in every category, but overall he's one of the better runners I've seen.
I'm a little new to this game of studying rookie RB's this in depth, first year dynasty player. But I know enough to listen to the above guys, they have a good grip on what they are talking about. Wildman was the reason I was able to grab Bradshaw for nothing last pre season and some in the league thought it was an odd choice. He made good points referencing vision and quickness being on top of the list of importance when it comes to rating RB's, Emmitt Smith a prime example. Also important information to pay attention to is the BMI rating along with age and how high a player is drafted. Nothing is 100% but history indicates that all the above will increase the odds.
 
The Scientist said:
JAA said:
JohnnyU said:
JAA said:
How many games has DMac missed in his career? Are you into predicting injuries?
No, I'm not predicting injuries, I just know that RBs who run tall are more susceptible to injury, especially those that take on tacklers given their lack of power.
Like Adrian Peterson? Like Eddie George?Is this about Chris Brown? Anyone else? Brandon Jacobs?
Do you prefer that a RB runs tall? If I had to choose it would be that they run with a low pad level. See Jonathan Stewart.
'low pad level' were have I heard this line used before. :lmao: So why do you like Stewart and not McFadden.In your words not, Mayocks.
 
Yes there is such a thing as being too big, but the folks who touted Duckett ignored his lack of agility. Just like folks touting McFadden are ignoring is lack of vision and ability to gain yardage after contact because of his speed.
Actually IIRC Duckett wasn't viewed as well until after the combine. Also, I'm not one of the McFadden lovers either, I find his flaws glaring as well.
Stewart is getting praise because he has the agility of a 205-210 pound back in a 230-lb body and not "he's kinda agile and fast for a big guy in the Ironhead Heyward sense"
Really? Then why do we keep hearing "for his size" being affixed to every comment about him?
 
I agree.My top 5 are:1. Stewart2. Mendenhall3. McFadden4. Jones5. Rice1,2,3 close, 4 not too far behind, then Rice and Charles . I'm not sure who will go where, but obviously it will play a role in fantasy drafts.
Your on record, time will tell.If me a novice Yahoo player, knows more than you do. :angry: I guess If I'm right, you should get out of those $50.00-100.00 dollar Leagues you play in. :excited: Or do you play in any High Stakes Leagues? My guess is 'NO'. :no:
 
I am the President of the fan club!

I live in the Pacific Northwest and have seen a lot of this guy. Whats not to like.

He catches the ball, BREAKS tackles, and has great vision. All things that will make him great at the next level.

 
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Stewart played through turf toe last season. It was still bothering him all the way through the bowl game. People who cite Dixon as the cause of Stewart's success might want to take a closer look at Dixon's college career. I owned him in my college dynasty league for his entire career. He wasn't an impact player until 2007. He wasn't even the full-time starter in 2006. Citing Dennis Dixon as the cause for Jonathan Stewart's success just means you don't know much about Oregon football. Stewart was considered the better prospect entering Oregon and is considered the better prospect leaving Oregon. He had a solid YPC average in 2006 when Dixon was mediocre. Anyhow, using a player's college career to predict his NFL success is kind of pointless since almost every elite prospect had a great college career. I pointed this out in another thread, but when you look at college production you'll see that Forsett, Forte, Rice, Slaton, Stewart, Mendenhall, Charles, Choice, Smith and Johnson were all dominant players. Obviously they're not all going to succeed in the NFL. Stats are important, but you also have to look beyond the numbers.I agree and if there's a back we should worry about due to his QB in the option game, it's Mendenhall. Unlike the Oregon tandem, Mendenhall benefited greatly on outside runs due to the option. Stewart often got to the outside on his own. I know the combine measurements show Mendenhall is faster with running in a straight line than Stewart, but with the pads on I didn't see that speed translate very well with perimeter runs except when I. Williams was able to hold onto the ball long enough to draw the defense inside before he pitched it to his teammate well along the edge of the defense.
Haha....this is funny.Both Dixon and Juice Williams are good runners. Both affected the numbers of Stewart and Mendenhall. You don't think that Dixon reading the DE and deciding to pull the ball or give to stewart(on a zone play....not the outside option that most armchair QB's think of) helped with his stats? It only takes out the backside DE. That allows the Backside guard and tackle to combo up to the backside backer. Then whenever stewart, cut it backside and it was wide-open.....im sure dixon pulling off that backside DE had nothing to do with it :goodposting:
 
I agree.My top 5 are:1. Stewart2. Mendenhall3. McFadden4. Jones5. Rice1,2,3 close, 4 not too far behind, then Rice and Charles . I'm not sure who will go where, but obviously it will play a role in fantasy drafts.
Your on record, time will tell.If me a novice Yahoo player, knows more than you do. :goodposting: I guess If I'm right, you should get out of those $50.00-100.00 dollar Leagues you play in. :lmao: Or do you play in any High Stakes Leagues? My guess is 'NO'. :no:
You sure do post with a lot of emoticons. Is that you John? Almost every post in fact. Also, why should I get out of those $100 leagues when I win my fair share. They are made up of mostly FBGs, so I guess you know more than they do, so excuse me if I don't see your greatness.By the way, it's easy to go along with the masses and say McFadden is the best. FYI, that doesn't make you special, it just makes me wrong. I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. Somehow I don't think you can say the same thing about yourself.
 
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Here is to hoping that none of the NFL teams with picks 1-17 read this forum.I am a season ticket holder for Oregon and I sure hope my favorite team (Houston) takes him at #18. Then somehow Houston makes a trade for DeAngelo Hall.Okay so now im dreaming and most likely Houston takes a CB and maybe Ray Rice in the 2nd round.
I'd be very happy with Ray Rice, too. Add me to his fan club when they open shop :lmao:
:goodposting: Almost have him ahead of Mendenhall on my list. Almost. :no:
 
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I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
I've never said he's a lock to be a star in the NFL. But the arguments some people have used to knock him (i.e. "he's slow" or "he was only good because of Dixon") are so lame that I've felt obligated to rip them to shreds. If you don't like him, you don't like him. That doesn't bother me. Where I have a problem is when you try to compare him to Duckett or say he's slow because he runs the 40 .07 seconds slower than Adrian Peterson. That's just silly.
 
EBF said:
switz said:
The Scientist said:
Stewart ran 4.48 40, had the third most reps on the bench, and the second best Vert Jump. Not to mention he is built to play the position at the NFL level. There are three RB's above the rest in this years class IMO. Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden.

2 are built to play the part while one lacks leg drive and vision IMO. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't break tackles in the NFL you won't break long runs.
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
;) Stewart had arguably the best overall combine numbers when you factor in all of the drills. He had a sick 10'8" long jump, a very solid 36.5" vert, a very solid 4.48 40, and an outstanding 28 reps on the bench.

It's laughable to see you cite his 40 time as a negative since you were a big Marshawn Lynch fan and Stewart's 40 time is .04 seconds faster than Lynch's best time at last year's combine. You're obviously just looking for reasons to justify your skepticism here.
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Regardless, I form my opinion from college tape, and then look to the combine for confirmation, not to convince me otherwise.
:rolleyes: My top 5

1. Mendenhall

2. Stewart

3. McFadden

4. Rice

5. Choice

 
Stewart played through turf toe last season. It was still bothering him all the way through the bowl game. People who cite Dixon as the cause of Stewart's success might want to take a closer look at Dixon's college career. I owned him in my college dynasty league for his entire career. He wasn't an impact player until 2007. He wasn't even the full-time starter in 2006. Citing Dennis Dixon as the cause for Jonathan Stewart's success just means you don't know much about Oregon football. Stewart was considered the better prospect entering Oregon and is considered the better prospect leaving Oregon. He had a solid YPC average in 2006 when Dixon was mediocre. Anyhow, using a player's college career to predict his NFL success is kind of pointless since almost every elite prospect had a great college career. I pointed this out in another thread, but when you look at college production you'll see that Forsett, Forte, Rice, Slaton, Stewart, Mendenhall, Charles, Choice, Smith and Johnson were all dominant players. Obviously they're not all going to succeed in the NFL. Stats are important, but you also have to look beyond the numbers.I agree and if there's a back we should worry about due to his QB in the option game, it's Mendenhall. Unlike the Oregon tandem, Mendenhall benefited greatly on outside runs due to the option. Stewart often got to the outside on his own. I know the combine measurements show Mendenhall is faster with running in a straight line than Stewart, but with the pads on I didn't see that speed translate very well with perimeter runs except when I. Williams was able to hold onto the ball long enough to draw the defense inside before he pitched it to his teammate well along the edge of the defense.
Haha....this is funny.Both Dixon and Juice Williams are good runners. Both affected the numbers of Stewart and Mendenhall. You don't think that Dixon reading the DE and deciding to pull the ball or give to stewart(on a zone play....not the outside option that most armchair QB's think of) helped with his stats? It only takes out the backside DE. That allows the Backside guard and tackle to combo up to the backside backer. Then whenever stewart, cut it backside and it was wide-open.....im sure dixon pulling off that backside DE had nothing to do with it :rolleyes:
I think people are missing the fact that all four of the "consensus" top RBs came from a non Pro-style offense in college. Stewart and Mendenhall benefited from option QBs and McFadden and Jones benefited from option/misdirection play calling. I just can't imagine that any NFL team that drafts them is going to implement that type of offense full time. They'll certainly add some stuff to the play book, but I don't think it's smart to get too awed by their numbers and highlights. Instead break down their running styles and traits, good and bad, and compare to others that have gone to the NFL.
 
If you want proof.....here is a clip. http://youtube.com/watch?v=PLS6C0HKrMc

Altho it isn't the backside De....b/c the defense was in a 3-4....so it was the backside OLB that Dixon held.
Didn't need his help here http://youtube.com/watch?v=h2yKRVAHItU&feature=related
Wasn't the question that Dixon didn't help Stewarts numbers inflate or help stewart get to the outside/second level? I think it was.Also I think Stewart will be a great RB.

 
I agree.My top 5 are:1. Stewart2. Mendenhall3. McFadden4. Jones5. Rice1,2,3 close, 4 not too far behind, then Rice and Charles . I'm not sure who will go where, but obviously it will play a role in fantasy drafts.
Your on record, time will tell.If me a novice Yahoo player, knows more than you do. :banned: I guess If I'm right, you should get out of those $50.00-100.00 dollar Leagues you play in. :banned: Or do you play in any High Stakes Leagues? My guess is 'NO'. :banned:
You sure do post with a lot of emoticons. Is that you John? Almost every post in fact. Also, why should I get out of those $100 leagues when I win my fair share. They are made up of mostly FBGs, so I guess you know more than they do, so excuse me if I don't see your greatness.By the way, it's easy to go along with the masses and say McFadden is the best. FYI, that doesn't make you special, it just makes me wrong. I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again. Somehow I don't think you can say the same thing about yourself.
Nope first name is not John.My last name you can find, I posted it.Will not post first name.Sorry I won't use any more (icons) from now on.Back to topic. I play in Yahoo Leagues with friends.I do very well, 500 a team 12 teams.I have won over 23,500. Not sure why it matters that I play in Yahoo Leagues.Isn't the bottom number money won?I believe it's not close McFadden by a mile over Stewart(who I think is 6th best).I already posted this. Mr.Faulk agrees. I know what does He know?
 
Tenacious D said:
Wow, Adrian Peterson finally got the benefit of the doubt from the skeptics after a great Combine, not McFadden, huh? When you have no place to go but down, you are always going to take shots, but McFadden was the top RB on the field and did nothing lose the title working out. The guy is the real deal. Ball security is a concern, but if you look back at his fumbles, a lot of them came on kick-offs and as a QB in the Wild Hog package, which he isn't going to be running regularly at the next level, on exchanges and such. My bigger concern is him getting the footwork down out of the I and patience to allow blocks to set up after running in such an unconventional offense. However, that is a short term concern, he'll be coached up and natural talent will rise to the top. This is actually a concern for a few guys, e.g. Mendenhall also ran out of mostly spread sets w/a running threat QB, which helped pad his numbers, but same as McFadden, I'm not worried this will work out fine. As for his off-field issues, the lack of maturity is more disappointing than them being a concern he is a thug or lacks focus. The first one is a non-factor, someone tries to steal his brother's car and he gets in a fight. Unfortunately, it resulted in his only serious injury in college (almost lost a toe), but he bounced back fine. The disappointing part is his latest incident at a club, which was even less of a problem in a vaccuum, but you would have thought he learned his lesson about avoiding the nightlife, especially heading in to the draft. That and the paternity claim are pure lack of maturity.Two tangible things that bother me about Stewart are his left ankle, including a bit on his "durability potential" I'll call it, and his elusiveness at full speed. The ankle has been a recurring problem going back to high school and he is prone to get dinged up, in general. Now he's proven very tough in playing through it most of the time (one of his strong assets), I think he only missed one full game in his college career, but stability of the ankle and all his joints and tendons are headed for a beating like they've never endured before. I'm always nervous about extreme size/speed freaks like him. Your joints and tendons have to be pushed to their limits to support the weight of a guy like that moving at the speed he does. Physics seems to catch up with guys like this (Terry Glenn, Greg Jones, the aforementioned Jamal Lewis, etc) when it comes to serious injuries and that left ankle seems primed to be in the equation. Still, I'm sure plenty of medical tests will be done on the stability of all his parts, so if a team is still confident enough to spend a first round pick on him, that obviously trumps my unsubstantiated gut feelings and observations (although the xspurts have all been wrong before too :thumbup: ). The only thing I dislike about Stewart on tape is he becomes a bit stiff once he's at full speed. Watching him in 2006, I struggled to understand why the track speed he had that translated on returns didn't do the same as much from scrimmage. In 2007, it seemed to translate better, but when I took a closer look at the home runs he hit, he almost exclusively went untouched on them. Got the corner before anyone touched him or went up the middle on a perfectly executed play and no one got him. Now, admittedly, this is usually the case when any player breaks a long one, hence why it is a long one, but when you look at more of his runs, you see that some don't go longer b/c, while he gets up to full speed quickly - and that's a great asset, he doesn't have much wiggle once he's there. The intangible thing that bothers me about Stewart is his desire. It's a fine line between being a team player and having a sufficient level of arrogance to demand the ball when you're a star to make the plays that make you a star. So while from a rah-rah perspective, it was nice the way he shared balls w/Johnson until he blew his knee, I just got the feeling Stewart didn't mind not having the pressure of being a feature back, a bit, as well. And then there was Dixon, he was really "the man" on that team. After he went down, the team went on a three-game losing streak (including two very beatable opponents) to end the season after looking like a national championship contender. I hardly blame that on Stewart, but there are undoubtedly guys who step up in those situations to carry their teams, and in this one small example, he did not. In the overall picture it shouldn't cause much concern, I mean look at Peyton Manning and big games in college, but it's all a puzzle until they step on an NFL field and these are just a few minor pieces I saw fitting together regarding intangibles. Anyway, my only point here was to take some of the luster off the shine in thinking Stewart walks on water. I could go on even longer about his positives, which regardless of all this, still clearly points to him as one of the top three RB prospects. I just have him at #3 largely for those reasons compared to Run DMC and Mendenhall.
You nail the only real concerns I have about McFadden. Much of his success came from the Wild Hog formation where he could exploit his incredible vision, decisiveness, and hit the seam, cut and go talents. He's at his best going through the teeth of a defense, not seeking the corners, and that formation allowed him to exploit his gifts. I cannot remember a back with better vision. That formation allowed him to surmise situations with that vision and improvise with his talents and instincts. He almost always seeks a lane and explodes straight downhill. He will face a learning curve, and some difficulties in decision making. Doesn't matter in the long run. He was great from "standard" sets too. He'll be excellent, easily my RB1. We see Stewart the same. The injury history is a red flag. A player can be wound too tight and be too big and fast for his own good. You mention some good examples, but Stewart has reminded me of Fred Taylor since he was a freshman. I think that is the best comparison to Stewart based on both the size, speed, power equation, and his style of play. I previously mentioned how rarely he flashes the track speed on the football field. The mediocre 40 may explain that, but I think there's more to it, the stiffness you mention. Taylor is a little stiff in his game too, but he has hung in there late in his career. Another uber athlete doing that is Galloway. Being a supreme speciman may actually help with longevity, while ironically coinciding with injury problems. It takes a special mentality to hang in there and keep coming back though. Rehab is a witch.I vaguely remember us discussing Stewart as an incoming freshman. I liked Whitehead and you reminded me what a freak they had recruited, the most highly touted prep in the country. Something like that. But as a frosh, Stewart saw very little action behind Whitehead and excuses were all over the place. He was learning. He was hurt, but returning kicks. He didn't pass block. He didn't have good hands. At the same time McFadden had one of the greatest freshman season's in SEC history. Well, the next year many were excited to see Oregon release the beast. It never happened. Pure RBBC with another soph, Jeremiah Johnson. Lynch took some heat for being in RBBC with Forsett, but that was a completely different situation. Lynch was spelled in blowouts and at key points to keep him fresh for the 4th quarter. Lynch was involved in the entire package at Cal and rested prudently. Stewart was written out of the gameplan at Oregon. He was replaced by Johnson for 3rd down duty and longer passing downs. They even had a passing package that sent Stewart to the bench for entire drives, not to spell him, but because Jeremiah was better at those roles. No way does Lynch sit in those situations; thus I grade Lynch higher than Stewart, having seen them at length against similar defenses. This still reminds me of Fred Tayor, btw. This year was more of the same, and at times Jeremiah looked more effective than Stewart. And yes, I agree, Stewart seemed very content in the "Juluis Jones/Fred Taylor" role, starting but frequently relieved. Then not just Dixon, but also Johnson tore up a knee and Stewart was finally fully featured. Like Fred Taylor he did okay in that role (great overall, okay as a 3rd down back), and put up the most impressive all around numbers of his career. But he is not just stiff at full speed, he's stiff as a receiver. Where McFadden and Mendenhall look very natural adjusting to a poorly thrown dump off, catching it in stride and accelerating downfield; Stewart is jerky in adjusting to the ball, unsure on the catch, hesitant before getting downfield. He's not as natural as them in this role, but to his credit, he did get it done. It's hard to imagine an NFL team that doesn't have a version of Jeremiah Johnson working hard for that 3rd down role, and Stewart is a strong candidate to miss out on action Mendenhall and McFadden will enjoy. I suspect if you gave Mendenhall and Stewart 20 identical carries, Stewart would do more with them. So, this is a very tough call, I am a little indifferent about it, but for fantasy purposes, I'll rank Mendenhall above him by the narrowest of margins prior to seeing where they land.
 
Haha....this is funny.

Both Dixon and Juice Williams are good runners. Both affected the numbers of Stewart and Mendenhall. You don't think that Dixon reading the DE and deciding to pull the ball or give to stewart(on a zone play....not the outside option that most armchair QB's think of) helped with his stats? It only takes out the backside DE. That allows the Backside guard and tackle to combo up to the backside backer. Then whenever stewart, cut it backside and it was wide-open.....im sure dixon pulling off that backside DE had nothing to do with it :thumbup:

I'm not saying it didn't help their stats. I don't care about stats, I care about whether a back can run outside without the help of the option attack. I'm telling you that in the situations on film I studied, Mendenhall was much more dependent on his success outside from the option attack than Stewart. Stewart proved on film he could run perimeter plays without Dixon--see the South Florida game as an example when Dixon was out--or games when Brady Leaf was in there. Mendenhall often failed to gain the corner on perimeter runs without the help of the option.

The film shows what a back can and cannot do.

 
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:

2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Lynch's official times last year were 4.52 and 4.55. Link is premium content: http://profootballexperts.scout.com/2/624473.html

I felt Stewart was a little slow, as I've stated before, and he was. Not only was he nearly 4.5, but he was one of the slowest RBs timed. And I generally look at the times more in relation to the average that day, than as an overall number. Sometimes the track is fast, sometimes it's slow.
He ran .04 seconds slower than Rashard Mendenhall and .01 seconds than Felix Jones. Do you also think those guys are slow?You're probably the first person I can ever remember citing a 4.48 40 time as a reason to downgrade a 230+ pound RB.

Frankly, the fact that you compare Stewart to Duckett just tells me you probably haven't seen him play much.
:thumbup: and :rant:
 
EBF said:
JAA said:
The Scientist said:
JAA said:
JohnnyU said:
JAA said:
How many games has DMac missed in his career? Are you into predicting injuries?
No, I'm not predicting injuries, I just know that RBs who run tall are more susceptible to injury, especially those that take on tacklers given their lack of power.
Like Adrian Peterson? Like Eddie George?Is this about Chris Brown? Anyone else? Brandon Jacobs?
Do you prefer that a RB runs tall? If I had to choose it would be that they run with a low pad level. See Jonathan Stewart.
I prefer to take my chances with stud college players. Ill start with AP, then move to DMac. There is nothing wrong with Stewart per se, but I saw much more from McFadden than Stewart. Feel free to post the games where Stewart took them over. Especially the ones with Dixon out. Then Ill post the games where Slaton took over where White was out.You can fall in love with Stewarts physique and combine all you want. Ill take DMac' college body of work all day.
1. Stewart played through turf toe last season. It was still bothering him all the way through the bowl game. 2. People who cite Dixon as the cause of Stewart's success might want to take a closer look at Dixon's college career. I owned him in my college dynasty league for his entire career. He wasn't an impact player until 2007. He wasn't even the full-time starter in 2006. Citing Dennis Dixon as the cause for Jonathan Stewart's success just means you don't know much about Oregon football. Stewart was considered the better prospect entering Oregon and is considered the better prospect leaving Oregon. He had a solid YPC average in 2006 when Dixon was mediocre. Anyhow, using a player's college career to predict his NFL success is kind of pointless since almost every elite prospect had a great college career. I pointed this out in another thread, but when you look at college production you'll see that Forsett, Forte, Rice, Slaton, Stewart, Mendenhall, Charles, Choice, Smith and Johnson were all dominant players. Obviously they're not all going to succeed in the NFL. Stats are important, but you also have to look beyond the numbers.
1. There are lots of players who played through injury last season. I dont think this is a fair attribute to success, but if you put it there, thats you.2. You are kidding yourself if you dont think Stewarts success is directly correlated to Dixon's success. I asked for Stewarts numbers while Dixon was out. You have told me Stewart played through injuries. Were those injuries bothering him while he was lighting it up when Dixon was playing?I dont know how anyone can put Stewart in the same ballpark of DMac. Seriously. If you watched Dmac play in the SEC (where is LHUCKS?) compared to Stewart in the Pac10 (CoC) you wouldnt even put them in the same zipcode. However, we have the combine where all of us coach potatoes get to watch kids in spandex lift weights, run sprints, catch balls, and circle cones and we have it all figured out. Fact of the matter is the combine could only have hurt DMac. He went in head and shoulders above all other RBs and he did nothing to drop him in all (my) rankings.Its cool we disagree, I can dig it as Im wrong plenty of times. But to say Stewart is better because of his Mamula like performance at the combine, him playing through turf toe, and not getting into 2 bar fights ... well, Ill simply say we can agree to disagree. :lmao:
 
Wildman said:
JohnnyU said:
JAA said:
Its pretty clear the Stewart lovers either didnt watch Stewart play or didnt watch McFadden play.
It's a simple difference of opinion so nothing personal, but I think there's no clarity of thought in your statement above. I watched both and I'd much rather have Stewart than McFadden.Upright running doesn't bother me. Lack of patience with his blockers, only showing consistent power when he gets to bully a DB after a 15-30 yard run, and consistently making the wrong choices at the line of scrimmage does bother me. The only thing DMac has over Stewart is a little over a tenth of a second in an overrated measurement that participants run in shorts and t-shirts. The only worry I have with Stewart is some issues with an ankle over the years, but it's not a big concern. When I first saw McFadden, I was really impressed with his speed and acceleration, but upon second and third-viewings (and then more after that) I believe those two qualities are far and away the best traits he has to offer--and I don't mean to be complimentary to his skills as a runner when I say it. At this point, I'd rather have 4-5 other backs than McFadden. I've seen your posts in the past few years and I respect your viewpoints on a fair number of topics, but I couldn't disagree more with what you've stated above.
Did you see DMac take over games in the SEC? Help me understand his 200+ against LSU in 06? Who was his QB then? What were his other weapons then?Disagree is fine, though ill take some time and point out the holes in your logic if you dont mind :wall: :lmao:
 
Wildman said:
Duckett & Stewart? Please...Stewart is not much better than Ronnie Brown or Ricky Williams. Duckett was close to 250 and a doughboy with very little lateral agility compared to Stewart. Stewart is regarded as a freak of nature by the NIKE SPARQ folks who conduct testing for combine-like measurements. Stewart had one of the better scores you can get for speed, agility, explosiveness...Plus, you just have to watch the games to see that Stewart and Duckett are nowhere close in a comparison.
Your saying Stewart is better than Ronnie Brown (from combine numbers)? Have you looked at Brown's numbers?
 
EBF said:
switz said:
The Scientist said:
Stewart ran 4.48 40, had the third most reps on the bench, and the second best Vert Jump. Not to mention he is built to play the position at the NFL level. There are three RB's above the rest in this years class IMO. Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden.

2 are built to play the part while one lacks leg drive and vision IMO. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't break tackles in the NFL you won't break long runs.
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
:rolleyes: Stewart had arguably the best overall combine numbers when you factor in all of the drills. He had a sick 10'8" long jump, a very solid 36.5" vert, a very solid 4.48 40, and an outstanding 28 reps on the bench.

It's laughable to see you cite his 40 time as a negative since you were a big Marshawn Lynch fan and Stewart's 40 time is .04 seconds faster than Lynch's best time at last year's combine. You're obviously just looking for reasons to justify your skepticism here.
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Regardless, I form my opinion from college tape, and then look to the combine for confirmation, not to convince me otherwise.I felt Stewart was a little slow, as I've stated before, and he was. Not only was he nearly 4.5, but he was one of the slowest RBs timed. And I generally look at the times more in relation to the average that day, than as an overall number. Sometimes the track is fast, sometimes it's slow.
Thats the part I dont get. The only knock on Stewart going into the combine was his lack of speed (not quickness). He did everything to reinforce that fact with his runs. ive said since the beginningof the season when I started watching Stewart (I had him on my College FF) and always said he looked slow. He ran one of the slowest RB times and people say it doesnt matter. I dont get it.
 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
:rolleyes:I think he will make it in thr NFL, but a specimen he is not.
 
EBF said:
switz said:
The Scientist said:
Stewart ran 4.48 40, had the third most reps on the bench, and the second best Vert Jump. Not to mention he is built to play the position at the NFL level. There are three RB's above the rest in this years class IMO. Stewart, Mendenhall, McFadden.

2 are built to play the part while one lacks leg drive and vision IMO. You can have all the speed in the world but if you can't break tackles in the NFL you won't break long runs.
Stewart is actually a bit too big to be a solid NFL RB, and his 40 time was one of the slowest of the RBs. I'm not sure how adding those two together makes him tops... TJ Duckett anyone?
:rolleyes: Stewart had arguably the best overall combine numbers when you factor in all of the drills. He had a sick 10'8" long jump, a very solid 36.5" vert, a very solid 4.48 40, and an outstanding 28 reps on the bench.

It's laughable to see you cite his 40 time as a negative since you were a big Marshawn Lynch fan and Stewart's 40 time is .04 seconds faster than Lynch's best time at last year's combine. You're obviously just looking for reasons to justify your skepticism here.
I'm wondering where you're getting your 40 time for Lynch:2007 NFL Pro Combine Results & Elite Targets!

Group 6 (RB) -- Top 10 Results: 40-Yard Dash

1. Chris Henry Arizona 4.40

2. Adrian Peterson Oklahoma 4.40

3. Antonio Pittman Ohio St. 4.40

4. Kenny Irons Auburn 4.45

5. Lorenzo Booker Florida St 4.46

6. Marshawn Lynch Cal 4.46

7. DeShawn Wynn Florida 4.48

8. Alonzo Coleman Hampton 4.49

9. Ramonce Taylor Texas 4.50

10. Kolby Smith Louisville 4.51
Regardless, I form my opinion from college tape, and then look to the combine for confirmation, not to convince me otherwise.I felt Stewart was a little slow, as I've stated before, and he was. Not only was he nearly 4.5, but he was one of the slowest RBs timed. And I generally look at the times more in relation to the average that day, than as an overall number. Sometimes the track is fast, sometimes it's slow.
Thats the part I dont get. The only knock on Stewart going into the combine was his lack of speed (not quickness). He did everything to reinforce that fact with his runs. ive said since the beginningof the season when I started watching Stewart (I had him on my College FF) and always said he looked slow. He ran one of the slowest RB times and people say it doesnt matter. I dont get it.
He didn't run one of the slowest 40 times. He had the 10th best time among all the RBs at the combine and finished a whopping .03 seconds behind Mendenhall and .01 seconds behind Jones. His time is .07 seconds behind Peterson's 2006 mark and .04 seconds ahead of Lynch's. Speed is typically overrated at the RB position, but there's really no way you can use a 4.48 40 time to justify a claim that a RB is slow. 4.48 is not slow for a RB. Arguing otherwise just shows you're not being objective about this.

 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
May I be a founding member? He scored as high of a grade in my Rookie Scouting Portfolio as any back I've measured thus far. He may not be the most dynamic in every category, but overall he's one of the better runners I've seen.
better than AP? Better than Ronnie Brown?
 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
:rolleyes:I think he will make it in thr NFL, but a specimen he is not.
Physically, he is a specimen. The real issue is whether he's better in workouts than on the football field.
 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
I've never said he's a lock to be a star in the NFL. But the arguments some people have used to knock him (i.e. "he's slow" or "he was only good because of Dixon") are so lame that I've felt obligated to rip them to shreds. If you don't like him, you don't like him. That doesn't bother me. Where I have a problem is when you try to compare him to Duckett or say he's slow because he runs the 40 .07 seconds slower than Adrian Peterson. That's just silly.
I dont think anyone is knocking him really. Just pointing out glaring information of why DMac will be the better NFL draft pick.
 
AP was pretty high. Ronnie Brown I didn't grade. Stewart is up there with AP in score, but only because AP had some issues in college that often make him an all-or-nothing yardage gainer, which we saw in certain games this year. Stewart isn't the force of nature Peterson is, but as a runner he's someone I'd clearly like to have over what I see in what's a good class of backs.

On another note, the idea posted that Stewart didn't demand the ball selfishly as a reason for knocking him down a peg should be said about Clinton Portis and Edge splitting time at Miami. Frank Gore and McGahee, too. Maybe we should add Terrell Davis and Garrison Hearst into that category, too. Same deal with Jamaal Charles and Selvin Young. Stewart is a guy that I think (if healthy, a good concern listed about the ankle) can be a 280-carry 1300-yd back for 3-5 years in any offensive system--single back, I-back, or spread attack

 
I now nominate EBF and The Scientist for president and vice president of the Jonathon Stewart fan club.Stewart will be OK in the NFL... but not a stud IMO. I've been wrong before, maybe I am again. But he'll have to show me in the NFL.
:lmao:I think he will make it in thr NFL, but a specimen he is not.
Physically, he is a specimen. The real issue is whether he's better in workouts than on the football field.
Yes, we dont know if he is a LT2/AP specimen yet. Though he will be available at the 1.02 in Hyper :X
 

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