Jonathan Stewart (1 Viewer)

[solwoldjr]

i LOL at all the eternal optimism on JStew, there is a reason that he won't break out and that reason's name is DeAngelo Williamsget yourself a copy of the CAR v MIA preseason game from last weekwatch the VERY FIRST play of the game CAR off starters v MIA def startersDeWill a 14 yard gain on what would have been a nice 3 yard gain by JStewfirst of all the vision to see the cutback IMMEDIATELY, but lets give JStew the benefit of the doubt and say he would have seen in as quick as DeWill (i don't believe he would but as I said I will give him the benefit of the doubt)a Miami defender read the cutback and set up in the gap right on the LOS and got nothing but air (hugged himself) after a DeWill jump cut (JStew can't physically do this and he would have probably powered through for a 3yd gain)but let's give the benefit of the doubt again and move on to the next defenderthe next Miami defender had the angle and DeWill ate the angle away in a split second and again a Mia defender hugged himself nothing but air. JStew probably would have turned this up the field and used power to get another 2-3 yds but DeWill outran the third level defender - a speedy defensive back - for an extra 12 yards. then four Mia defenders corraled DeWill to the sideline where he smartly stepped out of bounds (stay healthy man don't listen to Jim Brown)

You stating D Williams is more elusive than Stewart based on that one preseason play?

Jonathan Stewart grades out as Pro Football Focus' most elusive back of the last three seasons.PFF uses a formula that factors in missed tackles and production after contact to grade each player. Since the start of the 2009 season, Stewart's 58.8 rating paces the league. Fred Jackson, Michael Turner, Adrian Peterson, and Marshawn Lynch round out the top-five. Buffalo's Tashard Choice (11.4) has the lowest mark among active backs.

Owned.

 

[Itchy Amos]

i LOL at all the eternal optimism on JStew, there is a reason that he won't break out and that reason's name is DeAngelo Williams

get yourself a copy of the CAR v MIA preseason game from last week

watch the VERY FIRST play of the game CAR off starters v MIA def starters

DeWill a 14 yard gain on what would have been a nice 3 yard gain by JStew

first of all the vision to see the cutback IMMEDIATELY, but lets give JStew the benefit of the doubt and say he would have seen in as quick as DeWill (i don't believe he would but as I said I will give him the benefit of the doubt)

a Miami defender read the cutback and set up in the gap right on the LOS and got nothing but air (hugged himself) after a DeWill jump cut (JStew can't physically do this and he would have probably powered through for a 3yd gain)

but let's give the benefit of the doubt again and move on to the next defender

the next Miami defender had the angle and DeWill ate the angle away in a split second and again a Mia defender hugged himself nothing but air. JStew probably would have turned this up the field and used power to get another 2-3 yds but DeWill outran the third level defender - a speedy defensive back - for an extra 12 yards.

then four Mia defenders corraled DeWill to the sideline where he smartly stepped out of bounds (stay healthy man don't listen to Jim Brown)

You stating D Williams is more elusive than Stewart based on that one preseason play?

Jonathan Stewart grades out as Pro Football Focus' most elusive back of the last three seasons.

PFF uses a formula that factors in missed tackles and production after contact to grade each player. Since the start of the 2009 season, Stewart's 58.8 rating paces the league. Fred Jackson, Michael Turner, Adrian Peterson, and Marshawn Lynch round out the top-five. Buffalo's Tashard Choice (11.4) has the lowest mark among active backs.

Owned.

Thats a really strange way to define "elusive". Some of those guys listed look for contact & punish defenders. To me, elusive has to do with having the ability to AVOID contact. By PFF's rationalle, Gronkowski must have been the most elusive TE, since he was able to drag half the defense for 10 yards before going down. That's not being elusive, thats called being a brute.

 

[happy_donut]

i LOL at all the eternal optimism on JStew, there is a reason that he won't break out and that reason's name is DeAngelo Williams

get yourself a copy of the CAR v MIA preseason game from last week

watch the VERY FIRST play of the game CAR off starters v MIA def starters

DeWill a 14 yard gain on what would have been a nice 3 yard gain by JStew

first of all the vision to see the cutback IMMEDIATELY, but lets give JStew the benefit of the doubt and say he would have seen in as quick as DeWill (i don't believe he would but as I said I will give him the benefit of the doubt)

a Miami defender read the cutback and set up in the gap right on the LOS and got nothing but air (hugged himself) after a DeWill jump cut (JStew can't physically do this and he would have probably powered through for a 3yd gain)

but let's give the benefit of the doubt again and move on to the next defender

the next Miami defender had the angle and DeWill ate the angle away in a split second and again a Mia defender hugged himself nothing but air. JStew probably would have turned this up the field and used power to get another 2-3 yds but DeWill outran the third level defender - a speedy defensive back - for an extra 12 yards.

then four Mia defenders corraled DeWill to the sideline where he smartly stepped out of bounds (stay healthy man don't listen to Jim Brown)

You stating D Williams is more elusive than Stewart based on that one preseason play?

Jonathan Stewart grades out as Pro Football Focus' most elusive back of the last three seasons.

PFF uses a formula that factors in missed tackles and production after contact to grade each player. Since the start of the 2009 season, Stewart's 58.8 rating paces the league. Fred Jackson, Michael Turner, Adrian Peterson, and Marshawn Lynch round out the top-five. Buffalo's Tashard Choice (11.4) has the lowest mark among active backs.

Owned.

Thats a really strange way to define "elusive". Some of those guys listed look for contact & punish defenders. To me, elusive has to do with having the ability to AVOID contact. By PFF's rationalle, Gronkowski must have been the most elusive TE, since he was able to drag half the defense for 10 yards before going down. That's not being elusive, thats called being a brute.

Stewart is killing on this stat because he's got one of the best stiff arms in the NFL right now. Not because he's dragging players all over the field. There is more than one way to define 'contact'.

 

[Shutout]

When you have to rely on DeAngelo Williams to get injured for you to have a great season, I don't want to take that chance. Plus he has to fight TDs with another TD vulture in Mike Tolbert. Not buying it...

You don't have to rely on a DeAngelo Williams injury. Stewart could finish RB16 even if Williams played all 16 games. It's not like his production was that far from that level last year- four more TDs and he would have been there. I'm not buying the "Tolbert throws a wrench in the mix!" thing, here. Tolbert signed a 4 year, 8 million dollar contract. Stewart signed a 6 year, 37 million dollar contract. Tolbert's tied for 6th in carries so far this preseason. I don't think he plays into the rushing mix. Besides, injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. Especially among 29 year old RBs.

What's the point of having stats that say Stewart is rb16 when he puts up duds when you start him and he performs like a stud every time you sit him? Cumulative stats are useless when he isn't consistent...The term for that is Chris Johnson syndrome.

 

[pollardsvision]

I love Stewart, but I'm not sure I'm seeing a ton of value this year (and I'm not really concerned about RB dynasty ratings, 2 years may as well be a million).

A lot of RBs have talent, so I'm more interested in opportunity. Stewart's is questionable, at best.

A RBBC back needs GL carries or catches to matter. If the 47 rec. is a trend, great, but it's hard to predict what will happen with that going forward.

TDs?

When a guy got 4 TDs on a team that rushed for 26 last year (and 2 the year before that), it's hard to feel confident in that going forward, even if Cam starts taking less of them.

Sure, he's an injury away from being a stud, but that's true of dozens of NFL RBs. Many of those can be had for $1 or off the wire.

At ESPN (not the best source, I know), RB25 sounds modest with room for value, but here's a list of the guys going after him that I'd be as happy (or happier) with:

S.Greene

D.Martin

D.Williams

Redman

D.Brown

Hillis

K.Smith

Spiller

Not far off:

Benson

Gerhart

Jennings

The AZ guys

Vereen

Jacquizz

Those guys all have roughly the same opportunity as J-Stew (some much better) and the rest are 1 injury away from stardom (which is Stewart's selling point).

 

[Warrior]

People will just keep touting him as the next breakout star, as they have been doing year after year. It just isn't going to happen anytime soon...sorry guys.

Those who don't learn from history (last few years) are doomed to draft JStewart too high...again.

 

[Eminence]

Draft and hope Williams goes down with injury? Lol, no clue.

 

[pollardsvision]

Draft and hope Williams goes down with injury? Lol, no clue.

I'd rather save a few bucks, buy Hillis and hope* the little squirt recovering from a torn ACL goes down with injury.*Not that I really mean "hope" a man gets hurt and puts his livelihood in jeopardy, but you know what I mean.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Draft and hope Williams goes down with injury? Lol, no clue.

I'd rather save a few bucks, buy Hillis and hope* the little squirt recovering from a torn ACL goes down with injury.*Not that I really mean "hope" a man gets hurt and puts his livelihood in jeopardy, but you know what I mean.

Hillis has gone for more than Stewart in most of the auctions (real or mock) I have seen, especially lately, now that people are getting on board with Hillis.

 

[bweiser]

Dynasty owners love to overvalue the term 'talent.' Those who are big fans of Stewart and his defenders will say he is one of the top 5 most talented RBs in the league.

But I agree - his inconsistency makes him difficult to play.

 

[Lash]

i LOL at all the eternal optimism on JStew, there is a reason that he won't break out and that reason's name is DeAngelo Williamsget yourself a copy of the CAR v MIA preseason game from last weekwatch the VERY FIRST play of the game CAR off starters v MIA def startersDeWill a 14 yard gain on what would have been a nice 3 yard gain by JStewfirst of all the vision to see the cutback IMMEDIATELY, but lets give JStew the benefit of the doubt and say he would have seen in as quick as DeWill (i don't believe he would but as I said I will give him the benefit of the doubt)a Miami defender read the cutback and set up in the gap right on the LOS and got nothing but air (hugged himself) after a DeWill jump cut (JStew can't physically do this and he would have probably powered through for a 3yd gain)but let's give the benefit of the doubt again and move on to the next defenderthe next Miami defender had the angle and DeWill ate the angle away in a split second and again a Mia defender hugged himself nothing but air. JStew probably would have turned this up the field and used power to get another 2-3 yds but DeWill outran the third level defender - a speedy defensive back - for an extra 12 yards. then four Mia defenders corraled DeWill to the sideline where he smartly stepped out of bounds (stay healthy man don't listen to Jim Brown)

You stating D Williams is more elusive than Stewart based on that one preseason play?

Jonathan Stewart grades out as Pro Football Focus' most elusive back of the last three seasons.PFF uses a formula that factors in missed tackles and production after contact to grade each player. Since the start of the 2009 season, Stewart's 58.8 rating paces the league. Fred Jackson, Michael Turner, Adrian Peterson, and Marshawn Lynch round out the top-five. Buffalo's Tashard Choice (11.4) has the lowest mark among active backs.

look at your stat that is labeling power guys as elusive, PFF needs a better termif i "elude" the cops in a car chase i'm not ramming my car into theirs and blasting through roadblocksi don't think you can give the Miami guys missed tackles on DeWill because they didn't even touch DeWill, JStew wouldve gotten missed tackles on that because he wouldnt have been able to avoid the defenders

 

[BassNBrew]

- By all accounts, DeAngello and Stewart get along great and enjoy that they have a 1-2 punch. DeAngello has been quoted as saying that he's glad Stewart was extended because it will extend his career.

DeAngelo and Stewart are best friends. DeAngelo said recently that he and Stewart are happy about the idea of finishing their career together at Carolina. I don't think the Panthers will cut DeAngelo next year (but I could be wrong), because his guaranteed money will all be paid off this year, and he can restructure his contract next year to keep everyone happy. Steve Smith has done that while staying with the Panthers. If the Panthers cut DeAngelo next year it would cost them over 4 million, and his base salary wouldn't be much more than that to keep him. I think Double Treble Trouble will live on for a while, but things can change quickly in the NFL.

Fixed

 

[SSOG]

and we've discussed this ad nauseum:

just because a player doesn't miss alot of games does not make them full strength

i applaud JStew's resilience at playing through injuries but he is ALWAYS hurt

and that affects a coach and how often he will give a guy bellcow attempts

so please no more of the JStew is a mountain of health only missing two games talk, it doesn't tell the full story and is a misleading stat

Stewart has proven he's able to play through nagging injuries (a skill Ryan Mathews lacks). He's also fully healthy now for the first time in his career. I would say he's a lower than average injury risk, due to his youth, current health, light workload, and demonstrated ability to play hurt. Nothing misleading there.

yes they have been right before

ONCE

he has beaten his ADP once in his career, and missed it twice with a "push" one year

2011- ADP: RB33. Finish: RB25. Result = Beaten2010- ADP: RB22. Finish: RB34. Result = Not Beaten

2009- ADP: RB31. Finish: RB12. Result = Demolished

2008- ADP: RB26. Finish: RB24. Result = Push

1 season he demolished ADP, one season he beat ADP, one season he matched ADP, one season he failed to match his ADP. That's two wins, one push, and one loss, for those keeping score at home. And this is from an RB being called the most overrated fantasy RB of all time. The Stewart haters keep coming out and saying that Stewart fans have homer goggles on and they can't see the facts, that they just have an axe to grind. Which side can't see the facts here, again? Which side has an axe to grind? This Stewart fan's vision is crystal clear, and he sees that the market has combined a remarkable tendency to underrate Stewart with a remarkably poor memory of its tendency to underrate Stewart.

Bingo. The problem with Stewart is that if you have him as your RB2, your pretty much riding a roller coaster.

Just as an example, lets compare his weekly production to that of Beannie Wells (another RB2 who is much maligned). Looking at last season, here are the number of times your RB2 would have given you 8 or less fantasy points (standard, nonPPR):

Stewart: 9

Wells: 6*

*- Wells also missed week 17, but you knew he was going to ahead of time.

It's also worth noting that Wells had 2 week where he put up 30+ points. Stewart's highest week was 15 twice.

The point being, week to week, Stewart is inconsistant. Add to that the fact that he also has the "ceiling" of DWill taking touches and his value in redraft is simply a headache. In dynasty, while I agree, his talent puts him in the upper echelon, his touches and continual wait for a boost in touches that would push him out of "RB2" land has been maddeningly slow to come. By the time it does he may so close to the "cliff" of 30, it may not be worth it.

Jonathan Stewart is not demonstrably more inconsistent than anyone else who has scored a comparable number of points. Beanie Wells scored 23% more points per game than Stewart last year. RBs who score more points tend to have more good games than RBs who score fewer points. This is not news. It'd be like saying that Maurice Jones-Drew was more consistent than Michael Turner last year (MJD outscored Turner by about 23%, as well).Let's make a fairer comparison. Last year, Stewart finished as RB24. He had 9 games below 8 points. RB23 last year (BenJarvus Green-Ellis) had 8 games below 8 points. RB25 last year (DeAngelo Williams) had 9 games below 8 points. RB22 last year (Cedric Benson) had 9 games below 8 points (in 15 games). RB26 last year (Pierre Thomas) had 9 games below 8 points. By your own metric (games under 8 points), Stewart was exactly as inconsistent as you'd expect him to have been, based on the inconsistency of the RBs who finished with similar point totals.

Besides, consistency is interesting, but studies have never shown that inconsistency is a trait that is consistent from season to season. Ex post facto inefficiency metrics might be of some limited use descriptively, but they're relatively useless from a predictive standpoint.

 

[Art Vandalay]

When you have to rely on DeAngelo Williams to get injured for you to have a great season, I don't want to take that chance. Plus he has to fight TDs with another TD vulture in Mike Tolbert. Not buying it...

You don't have to rely on a DeAngelo Williams injury. Stewart could finish RB16 even if Williams played all 16 games. It's not like his production was that far from that level last year- four more TDs and he would have been there. I'm not buying the "Tolbert throws a wrench in the mix!" thing, here. Tolbert signed a 4 year, 8 million dollar contract. Stewart signed a 6 year, 37 million dollar contract. Tolbert's tied for 6th in carries so far this preseason. I don't think he plays into the rushing mix. Besides, injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. Especially among 29 year old RBs.

D-Will looked like a man posessed last game and I would argue he not J-Stew is the more talented running back (not recieving although D-Will scored threw the air). D-Will's price tag is much cheaper and his upside is higher with Stew more liekly to go down as he will be given more touches and he taking hits at goaline and on swing passes.

Stewart has missed two games since he entered the league. Williams has missed 13. Why is Stewart more likely to go down?

Stewart is probably the most overrated RB in the history of fantasy football. Every year, we see post after post, on every fantasy forum, declaring that this "has to be" his year, that his talent is unquestionable, etc. At this point, it should be obvious that he is what he is; a talented guy stuck in a RBBC with an even more talented 29 year old back who has also been even more underused.

I think the constant pollyanna-ish views on Stewart are based on deluded, wishful thinking by all those fantasy owners who drafted him high as a rookie in keeper laagues.

If Stewart was overrated, wouldn't he be consistently underperforming his ADP? Because he hasn't been.

Seem like this know it all just got hi sjust desserts served up to hom

 

[letter_j]

<b>Seem like this know it all just got hi sjust desserts served up to hom</b>

 

[Shutout]

When you have to rely on DeAngelo Williams to get injured for you to have a great season, I don't want to take that chance. Plus he has to fight TDs with another TD vulture in Mike Tolbert. Not buying it...

You don't have to rely on a DeAngelo Williams injury. Stewart could finish RB16 even if Williams played all 16 games. It's not like his production was that far from that level last year- four more TDs and he would have been there. I'm not buying the "Tolbert throws a wrench in the mix!" thing, here. Tolbert signed a 4 year, 8 million dollar contract. Stewart signed a 6 year, 37 million dollar contract. Tolbert's tied for 6th in carries so far this preseason. I don't think he plays into the rushing mix. Besides, injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. Especially among 29 year old RBs.

D-Will looked like a man posessed last game and I would argue he not J-Stew is the more talented running back (not recieving although D-Will scored threw the air). D-Will's price tag is much cheaper and his upside is higher with Stew more liekly to go down as he will be given more touches and he taking hits at goaline and on swing passes.

Stewart has missed two games since he entered the league. Williams has missed 13. Why is Stewart more likely to go down?

Stewart is probably the most overrated RB in the history of fantasy football. Every year, we see post after post, on every fantasy forum, declaring that this "has to be" his year, that his talent is unquestionable, etc. At this point, it should be obvious that he is what he is; a talented guy stuck in a RBBC with an even more talented 29 year old back who has also been even more underused.

I think the constant pollyanna-ish views on Stewart are based on deluded, wishful thinking by all those fantasy owners who drafted him high as a rookie in keeper laagues.

If Stewart was overrated, wouldn't he be consistently underperforming his ADP? Because he hasn't been.

Seem like this know it all just got hi sjust desserts served up to hom

How so? Has JSTEW already missed week 1 or something? Lots of players get dinged up, tweak something, etc, and get pulled out in pre-season because, well, it's pre-season.

Nothing SSOG said has changed. he gave you the facts. Two missed games for a RB is an incredible stat. And there is nothing that says you might be dogging him out now and three weeks from now DWIL might be lost for the year. There really isn't much to say here.

 

[SSOG]

Thanks for bumping this thread. I was worried that last post of mine was going to go unnoticed by all the Stewart haters.

 

[Ray_T]

I've noticed a significant discrepancy in his ranking on FBGs re-draft vs. dynasty rankings. Trying not to give away too much subscriber content, many of the same staffers have him ranked an average of 11 spots higher in their dynasty rankings compared to their re-draft rankings.Obviously this suggests that many expect his situation to change for the better sometime in the next several years. I like his talent, but he's been in the league for 4 seasons and, so far, he hasn't taken over as the lead back (and I'm not suggesting that he necessarily should have). He's got 5 years left on his contract and Williams has 4, leading me to believe that he'll remain in a committee for the foreseeable future.With all of this in mind, why are the staffers (and others I presume) so much higher on him in the long-term than for this season? What am I missing?

I think it's fair to say, Carolina has one of the better run based O-Lines in the NFL. Stewart is ranked low because of the presence of DeAngelo. DeAngelo is officially the starter (but we know it is a committee) and Stewart will only put up adequate numbers for the next year or two.As mentioned earlier, DeAngelo turns 30 shortly and will likely play until he hits 31 but I dont expect he will play much beyond that time. As such, Stewarts future value is substantially higher than his present value. I do not expect any new RB that they could draft to replace DeAngelo could be as good as he is today, and As such, Stewarts future in this offense can only go up in the long term.good news is that he also can catch passes out of the backfield (47 catches for 413 yards last year)the other good news in Stewarts favour is that he does not have as many hard miles on the odometer in that he has split carries for the majority of his young career, and may have a good, long career as a result.I know some have called him injury prone, but he has only missed 2 games in 4 seasons. he gets nicked up like most RB's, but seems to be able to play through that. The only thing that scares me a bit is that if Newton is as good as we think, this offense may switch to become more of a balanced or passing based offense. If that happens Stewarts run totals may decline somewhat, but will be partially offset by receiving yards. Regardless of this, I think he still has very good long term potential.The only

 

[BassNBrew]

When you have to rely on DeAngelo Williams to get injured for you to have a great season, I don't want to take that chance. Plus he has to fight TDs with another TD vulture in Mike Tolbert. Not buying it...

You don't have to rely on a DeAngelo Williams injury. Stewart could finish RB16 even if Williams played all 16 games. It's not like his production was that far from that level last year- four more TDs and he would have been there. I'm not buying the "Tolbert throws a wrench in the mix!" thing, here. Tolbert signed a 4 year, 8 million dollar contract. Stewart signed a 6 year, 37 million dollar contract. Tolbert's tied for 6th in carries so far this preseason. I don't think he plays into the rushing mix. Besides, injuries are a fact of life in the NFL. Especially among 29 year old RBs.

D-Will looked like a man posessed last game and I would argue he not J-Stew is the more talented running back (not recieving although D-Will scored threw the air). D-Will's price tag is much cheaper and his upside is higher with Stew more liekly to go down as he will be given more touches and he taking hits at goaline and on swing passes.

Stewart has missed two games since he entered the league. Williams has missed 13. Why is Stewart more likely to go down?

Stewart is probably the most overrated RB in the history of fantasy football. Every year, we see post after post, on every fantasy forum, declaring that this "has to be" his year, that his talent is unquestionable, etc. At this point, it should be obvious that he is what he is; a talented guy stuck in a RBBC with an even more talented 29 year old back who has also been even more underused.

I think the constant pollyanna-ish views on Stewart are based on deluded, wishful thinking by all those fantasy owners who drafted him high as a rookie in keeper laagues.

If Stewart was overrated, wouldn't he be consistently underperforming his ADP? Because he hasn't been.

Seem like this know it all just got hi sjust desserts served up to hom

How so? Has JSTEW already missed week 1 or something? Lots of players get dinged up, tweak something, etc, and get pulled out in pre-season because, well, it's pre-season.

Nothing SSOG said has changed. he gave you the facts. Two missed games for a RB is an incredible stat. And there is nothing that says you might be dogging him out now and three weeks from now DWIL might be lost for the year. There really isn't much to say here.

Now missing week 1. Stewart owners better hope for a bad day in Tampa because Williams and Tolbert are primed to make Stewart an cop back. By cop I mean the back they go to when they need less speed, less elusiveness, less power, or less blocking on the field.

 

[BassNBrew]

Time for a bump as Tolbert has now passed Stewart in 2012 fantasy points. Stewart now in 3rd place on the Carolina ff pt RB list.