Josh Freeman Released. Signs with Vikings. (1 Viewer)

[Raiderfan32904]

Is it possible that Freeman intentionally played his way out of Tampa? Seems odd that he went from being pretty good to dreadful overnight.

It's certainly possible. He wouldn't be the first athlete to do such a thing. What's so mind boggling to me is how he fell apart after his stretch to start 2012 where he was an MVP candidate after 10 games. Where did that player go? He had the exact same coaching staff and exact same players surrounding him in those games that he had in the past 9 games.

I don't see any reason why he'd intentionally tank it when the Bucs were in the playoff hunt. He would have been due a huge contract if he could have continued that pace, or at least played a bit better than average down the stretch.

Then the front office went out and invested even more in the team this off-season without doing anything to address the QB position other than drafting Glennon, and I don't think Mike Glennon was drafted to start in week 4 this season. That couldn't have been the master plan.

I wish him the best and hope he's successful in Minnesota as I've been defending him against the doubters here for years. I wanted him to be the guy in Tampa for years to come. That being said, I can't blame Schiano or the front office. Josh has been horrible.

Schiano has be awful, the front office was doing a good job in building a team and he just ruined it

I agree that he seems terrible but (help me out here Bucs fans) when he came in, didn't things seem to immediately imrpove? Didn't they go from a terrible team to begin looking like thye were on the right path and won more games in a tough division?

But, yeah, to be honest, I mentally checked out on this staff when they pulled that "crash the victory formation" stuff. That is so bush league that you can just kinda tell that a coach isn't going to last long in the NFL with that mindset. This isn;t college. This isn't rah rah. You can get away with that if you have a ton of talent but otherwise you are painting a target on yourself.

The front office started building this team up 5 years ago, and Freeman was the first building block of the Dominik era in 09. Dominik's had his hits and misses in the drafts, but from a standpoint of quality NFL starters still in the league, his drafts have been better than most, top third I'd say conservatively. And Raheem Morris somehow was able to get 10 wins from a shoestring budget and good drafts. The last 2 years, since Schiano came aboard, the Bucs owners started writing blank checks and bringing in a ton of talented pro bowl caliber players in free agency. Schiano not only has the benefit of free agency, but some good drafts. His cupboard is bursting compared to the Raheem era. And still the Bucs underachieve. That's all on the dumb coach, and especially fault him for how messy the Freeman situation was mishandled.

 

[Sabertooth]

I could see Minnesota as a great landing spot for him. He would have very strong locker room leadership in Jennings and Peterson.

He's not an upgrade over Matt Cassel.

We are going to find out huh? I bet Freeman ascends this depth chart before Thanksgiving. Maybe before Halloween.

 

[KellysHeroes]

Is it possible that Freeman intentionally played his way out of Tampa? Seems odd that he went from being pretty good to dreadful overnight.

It's certainly possible. He wouldn't be the first athlete to do such a thing. What's so mind boggling to me is how he fell apart after his stretch to start 2012 where he was an MVP candidate after 10 games. Where did that player go? He had the exact same coaching staff and exact same players surrounding him in those games that he had in the past 9 games.

I don't see any reason why he'd intentionally tank it when the Bucs were in the playoff hunt. He would have been due a huge contract if he could have continued that pace, or at least played a bit better than average down the stretch.

Then the front office went out and invested even more in the team this off-season without doing anything to address the QB position other than drafting Glennon, and I don't think Mike Glennon was drafted to start in week 4 this season. That couldn't have been the master plan.

I wish him the best and hope he's successful in Minnesota as I've been defending him against the doubters here for years. I wanted him to be the guy in Tampa for years to come. That being said, I can't blame Schiano or the front office. Josh has been horrible.

Schiano has be awful, the front office was doing a good job in building a team and he just ruined it

I agree that he seems terrible but (help me out here Bucs fans) when he came in, didn't things seem to immediately imrpove? Didn't they go from a terrible team to begin looking like thye were on the right path and won more games in a tough division?

But, yeah, to be honest, I mentally checked out on this staff when they pulled that "crash the victory formation" stuff. That is so bush league that you can just kinda tell that a coach isn't going to last long in the NFL with that mindset. This isn;t college. This isn't rah rah. You can get away with that if you have a ton of talent but otherwise you are painting a target on yourself.

One of the biggest problems I think college coachs have when transitioning to the pros is going from dealing / punishing young men (boys) and then using the same tactics on grown men. But when your the new guy and screaming at professional atheletes as if their still college boys, it might be a wake up call at first and cause a spark but if you do week in and week out its not going to work.

 

[Quez]

I was on board with the Freeman benching but the Bucs have done a terrible job of handling this situation. First off, I don't agree with releasing the guy no matter how big of a distraction he was. They should have suspended him, or at least waited until the trade deadline. QBs are dropping like flies, so they may have been able to pull off something closer to the deadline. Not to mention, if Glennon gets hurt Freeman has to be better than Orlovski.

If Freeman wanted to be released that bad then he should of negotiated some of that guaranteed money off his contract.

It's quite apparent where all the leaks where coming from now. Freeman & his agent just played the Bucs and made a few extra million off of it.

I hope he does well and makes Dominick & Schiano look bad so the Glaziers dump both of them.

 

[twistd]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

 

[Black]

I would assume Freeman's arm-strength is a big advantage over Ponder (and Cassel). Setup the play-action deep shots with Adrian? Seems like a good plan.

How might this affect Jerome Simpson, Rudolph, and (down the road) C.Patterson?

 

[Abraham]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

He threw for 4000 yards and 27 touchdowns last year. In fact , he was pretty good until the last 7 games of last year and this season only saw him get 3 starts. I'm not sure "two years" means what you think it means.

 

[Donnybrook]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Let get your logic straight: Vikings were actually playoff team last year and they gave up nothing but money to get Freeman but the Palmer to the Raiders deal make much more sense because they thought they were a playoff team and gave up multiple draft picks. Hmmm.

 

[Premier]

One thing is for sure... Freeman didn't tank or suck intentionally. Guy was going to get 12-14M this offseason with a strong year.

 

[Gargoylez]

Freeman is a head case. He will be no better than Ponder or Cassell.

I think the Bucs handled this like a 2nd rate organization, but that doesn't make Freeman any better.

 

[Tool]

Sometimes a change of scenery can spark a renaissance.

A number of years ago i was in a sh!tty job with a boss i hated. I was close to getting fired. i finally got moved to a different department and i worked my a$$ off to prove that it was my boss who was the problem, not me. Eventually i got promoted and my boss was stripped of his mangement responsibilities. Obviously different dynamics going on with Freeman, but just food for thought.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Sometimes a change of scenery can spark a renaissance.

A number of years ago i was in a ####ty job with a boss i hated. I was close to getting fired. i finally got moved to a different department and i worked my ### off to prove that it was my boss who was the problem, not me. Eventually i got promoted and my boss was stripped of his mangement responsibilities. Obviously different dynamics going on with Freeman, but just food for thought.

Mike Vick in Philli when he first came back was pretty amazing. Although---there are far more negative stories than positive ones when it comes to players going into new environments. However--the intriguing thing about Freeman is that he had basically hit rock bottom. At this point--- it would be harder for him to get worse than it would be to get better.

 

[FUBAR]

Also wonder if Freeman is a bench add just on the chance of any upside to a starting position. Cleveland would be a good landing spot for Freeman>Weedon

word is the browns aren't interested. they're looking at tyler thigpen over freeman...

this still makes zero sense to me. Freeman to Gordon/Cameron would likely have been exciting. May not have won much, but you never know.

 

[Grahamburn]

I would assume Freeman's arm-strength is a big advantage over Ponder (and Cassel). Setup the play-action deep shots with Adrian? Seems like a good plan.

How might this affect Jerome Simpson, Rudolph, and (down the road) C.Patterson?

I'm surprised nobody else thought of using Josh like this.

 

[Grahamburn]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

He threw for 4000 yards and 27 touchdowns last year. In fact , he was pretty good until the last 7 games of last year and this season only saw him get 3 starts. I'm not sure "two years" means what you think it means.

He's been really really bad for 10 straight games.

 

[mr roboto]

Going from young, good, promising to bad is a weird drop. Makes me think either he has some personal problem or the culture in TB was toxic. As a Vikes fan I like the move. We were always the team who recycled older QBs (with Culpepper the lone exception). I liked that they drafted and played Ponder, and that they went and got a younger QB with upside. Don't know if it will pan out, but this front office works hard and makes more deals than any other Vikes office I can remember.

 

[mad sweeney]

Sometimes a change of scenery can spark a renaissance.

A number of years ago i was in a ####ty job with a boss i hated. I was close to getting fired. i finally got moved to a different department and i worked my ### off to prove that it was my boss who was the problem, not me. Eventually i got promoted and my boss was stripped of his mangement responsibilities. Obviously different dynamics going on with Freeman, but just food for thought.

Mike Vick in Philli when he first came back was pretty amazing. Although---there are far more negative stories than positive ones when it comes to players going into new environments. However--the intriguing thing about Freeman is that he had basically hit rock bottom. At this point--- it would be harder for him to get worse than it would be to get better.

Lynch in Seattle is another recent example. Warner in AZ, when nearly everyone thought he was shell shocked and done.

 

[mr roboto]

Favre to MN.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Favre to MN.

yeah--but there is randy moss to the 49ers, matt flynn to the raiders, brandon lloyd to the pats, ochocinco to the pats...etc. I agree that I think the Freeman thing is positive--but there have also been some very negative moves to.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson, Warren Moon, Brett Favre

The Vikings have had some decent success with QBs drafted by other teams. Freeman may or may not work out but if I am a Vikes fan I love this move. They are trying to win with what thye have, they can go back into the draft next year if they need to but Freeman is a terrific gamble for them.

 

[mr roboto]

Randall Cunningham, Brad Johnson, Warren Moon, Brett Favre

The Vikings have had some decent success with QBs drafted by other teams. Freeman may or may not work out but if I am a Vikes fan I love this move. They are trying to win with what thye have, they can go back into the draft next year if they need to but Freeman is a terrific gamble for them.

Agreed MOP. The big difference is that Freeman is still young. The other guys were all older, couple year plays. Don't forget Gus Frerotte. (sp?)

 

[Tool]

The NFL Players Association believes that Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Greg Schiano is the man behind the leak of confidential information regarding former quarterback Josh Freeman, according to Tom Pelissero of USA Today. The union reportedly said they have "no confidence" in the NFL's separate investigation into the leaks, due to the lack of discipline as a result of any similar investigation in the past.

According to the report, the union referenced nine cases in which the NFL said it wold investigate a breach of confidentiality, but that discipline was never carried out -- or at least it was not announced -- as a result of any of those investigations.

Schiano has denied that he is the source of the leak, which centers around Freeman's voluntary enrollment in the NFL's substance abuse program. Freeman takes regular drug tests -- and says he has never failed one -- to ensure he is not abusing the fact that he's allowed to take Adderall for his ADHD.

That said, the report suggests that the union believes they have information on how the breach actually occurred, suggesting that Schiano discussed Freeman's status with other Buccaneers players prior to the quarterback's release.

One of the messiest stories this season continues. We've heard reports of Schiano having issues with his players and potentially "losing" his locker room all season, and now this controversy has dropped right in the middle of it all.

 

[Hoss Style]

In other news...

Schiano enrolled today in the NFL's Coaching Abuse Program. Recently started (last week) the NFL denies reports that it was created solely for Schiano.

 

[CariocaSean]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Last season:

Freeman YPA = 7.35

Ponder YPA = 5.93

Freeman was going downfield more than Ponder so that at least partially explains Ponder having a better completion percentage. Freeman brings a downfield passing threat that Ponder just does not bring. I think that could be a good thing to add into the recipe for this Vikings team with Peterson and their ability to run. It could pose problems for defenses. Freeman may actually be getting some better looks in Minnesota than in Tampa. Jennings has looked alright out there and Jerome Simpson is a under rated deep threat. Maybe they can even get Patterson involved running some deep routes with Freeman's ability to get the ball downfield.

Ponder is terrible. I mean just awful. I've watched several Vikings games this year and it was hard to watch. I felt bad for AP.

And, maybe you forgot, but this team went to the playoffs last year despite Ponder being terrible. The Packers crushed them in the playoffs by selling out to stop the run and taking a chance letting Ponder beat them. I do believe Freeman can make a defense pay for doing that where Ponder cannot.

 

[CariocaSean]

Sometimes a change of scenery can spark a renaissance.

A number of years ago i was in a ####ty job with a boss i hated. I was close to getting fired. i finally got moved to a different department and i worked my ### off to prove that it was my boss who was the problem, not me. Eventually i got promoted and my boss was stripped of his mangement responsibilities. Obviously different dynamics going on with Freeman, but just food for thought.

Mike Vick in Philli when he first came back was pretty amazing. Although---there are far more negative stories than positive ones when it comes to players going into new environments. However--the intriguing thing about Freeman is that he had basically hit rock bottom. At this point--- it would be harder for him to get worse than it would be to get better.

Vick was at rock bottom too. Cedric Benson comes to mind.

It's not unheard of for a little fresh air to help rejuvenate a career and we've seen guys hit rock bottom and still climb back into relevance in the NFL.

 

[Maelstrom]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Last season:Freeman YPA = 7.35

Ponder YPA = 5.93

Freeman was going downfield more than Ponder so that at least partially explains Ponder having a better completion percentage. Freeman brings a downfield passing threat that Ponder just does not bring. I think that could be a good thing to add into the recipe for this Vikings team with Peterson and their ability to run. It could pose problems for defenses. Freeman may actually be getting some better looks in Minnesota than in Tampa. Jennings has looked alright out there and Jerome Simpson is a under rated deep threat. Maybe they can even get Patterson involved running some deep routes with Freeman's ability to get the ball downfield.

Ponder is terrible. I mean just awful. I've watched several Vikings games this year and it was hard to watch. I felt bad for AP.

And, maybe you forgot, but this team went to the playoffs last year despite Ponder being terrible. The Packers crushed them in the playoffs by selling out to stop the run and taking a chance letting Ponder beat them. I do believe Freeman can make a defense pay for doing that where Ponder cannot.

Bolded pretty much proves you don't pay much attention and invalidates your opinion in my eyes. Ponder did not play in that game, Webb was the QB. Glad to see the Vikings trying something else to improve their lot, and Ponder isn't the answer, but he isn't terrible. He just isn't a starting QB. Maybe in a few years he'll grow into a role somewhere, but too much was asked of him to early.

 

[CariocaSean]

If I am the Vikings I'd stick it out with Cassel if he can continue to play like he did in week 4. He had good rhythm and timing with the WR's - something Freeman has been criticized for lacking. But Cassel has proved inconsistent as well. I'd let him play at least a few more weeks while Josh gains familiarity, and only make the change if Cassel cannot continue to play solid and keep defenses honest.

 

[CariocaSean]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Last season:Freeman YPA = 7.35

Ponder YPA = 5.93

Freeman was going downfield more than Ponder so that at least partially explains Ponder having a better completion percentage. Freeman brings a downfield passing threat that Ponder just does not bring. I think that could be a good thing to add into the recipe for this Vikings team with Peterson and their ability to run. It could pose problems for defenses. Freeman may actually be getting some better looks in Minnesota than in Tampa. Jennings has looked alright out there and Jerome Simpson is a under rated deep threat. Maybe they can even get Patterson involved running some deep routes with Freeman's ability to get the ball downfield.

Ponder is terrible. I mean just awful. I've watched several Vikings games this year and it was hard to watch. I felt bad for AP.

And, maybe you forgot, but this team went to the playoffs last year despite Ponder being terrible. The Packers crushed them in the playoffs by selling out to stop the run and taking a chance letting Ponder beat them. I do believe Freeman can make a defense pay for doing that where Ponder cannot.

Bolded pretty much proves you don't pay much attention and invalidates your opinion in my eyes. Ponder did not play in that game, Webb was the QB. Glad to see the Vikings trying something else to improve their lot, and Ponder isn't the answer, but he isn't terrible. He just isn't a starting QB. Maybe in a few years he'll grow into a role somewhere, but too much was asked of him to early.

It really doesn't prove anything. I watched the game, but yes, you are correct, I forgot Webb played. Really, though, the same holds true with Webb or Ponder in at QB. In fact as a Packers fan I was more worried about Webb than Ponder.

In both Vikings games I watched this year, Ponder was in fact terrible and a huge liability. He actually threw an interception on a play where he was just trying to throw the ball away and out of bounce.

 

[Maelstrom]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Last season:Freeman YPA = 7.35

Ponder YPA = 5.93

Freeman was going downfield more than Ponder so that at least partially explains Ponder having a better completion percentage. Freeman brings a downfield passing threat that Ponder just does not bring. I think that could be a good thing to add into the recipe for this Vikings team with Peterson and their ability to run. It could pose problems for defenses. Freeman may actually be getting some better looks in Minnesota than in Tampa. Jennings has looked alright out there and Jerome Simpson is a under rated deep threat. Maybe they can even get Patterson involved running some deep routes with Freeman's ability to get the ball downfield.

Ponder is terrible. I mean just awful. I've watched several Vikings games this year and it was hard to watch. I felt bad for AP.

And, maybe you forgot, but this team went to the playoffs last year despite Ponder being terrible. The Packers crushed them in the playoffs by selling out to stop the run and taking a chance letting Ponder beat them. I do believe Freeman can make a defense pay for doing that where Ponder cannot.

Bolded pretty much proves you don't pay much attention and invalidates your opinion in my eyes. Ponder did not play in that game, Webb was the QB. Glad to see the Vikings trying something else to improve their lot, and Ponder isn't the answer, but he isn't terrible. He just isn't a starting QB. Maybe in a few years he'll grow into a role somewhere, but too much was asked of him to early.

It really doesn't prove anything. I watched the game, but yes, you are correct, I forgot Webb played. Really, though, the same holds true with Webb or Ponder in at QB. In fact as a Packers fan I was more worried about Webb than Ponder.

It would have been a completely different game with Ponder in there. He is a more complete QB than Webb (I know, not say much as one of them is a WR now). He had done enough the previous week to beat the Pack, and while I know AP had a ton to do with that, he made throws when he needed to in both of his games against the Pack.

 

[Maelstrom]

If I am the Vikings I'd stick it out with Cassel if he can continue to play like he did in week 4. He had good rhythm and timing with the WR's - something Freeman has been criticized for lacking. But Cassel has proved inconsistent as well. I'd let him play at least a few more weeks while Josh gains familiarity, and only make the change if Cassel cannot continue to play solid and keep defenses honest.

This is my expectation. I think a lot of people think Freeman starts against the Giants, but if Cassel plays well, I don't think you pull him until Freeman is really ready or he starts struggling. Unfortunately, Cassel has proven to be nothing if not inconsistent.

 

[CariocaSean]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Last season:Freeman YPA = 7.35

Ponder YPA = 5.93

Freeman was going downfield more than Ponder so that at least partially explains Ponder having a better completion percentage. Freeman brings a downfield passing threat that Ponder just does not bring. I think that could be a good thing to add into the recipe for this Vikings team with Peterson and their ability to run. It could pose problems for defenses. Freeman may actually be getting some better looks in Minnesota than in Tampa. Jennings has looked alright out there and Jerome Simpson is a under rated deep threat. Maybe they can even get Patterson involved running some deep routes with Freeman's ability to get the ball downfield.

Ponder is terrible. I mean just awful. I've watched several Vikings games this year and it was hard to watch. I felt bad for AP.

And, maybe you forgot, but this team went to the playoffs last year despite Ponder being terrible. The Packers crushed them in the playoffs by selling out to stop the run and taking a chance letting Ponder beat them. I do believe Freeman can make a defense pay for doing that where Ponder cannot.

Bolded pretty much proves you don't pay much attention and invalidates your opinion in my eyes. Ponder did not play in that game, Webb was the QB. Glad to see the Vikings trying something else to improve their lot, and Ponder isn't the answer, but he isn't terrible. He just isn't a starting QB. Maybe in a few years he'll grow into a role somewhere, but too much was asked of him to early.

It really doesn't prove anything. I watched the game, but yes, you are correct, I forgot Webb played. Really, though, the same holds true with Webb or Ponder in at QB. In fact as a Packers fan I was more worried about Webb than Ponder.

It would have been a completely different game with Ponder in there. He is a more complete QB than Webb (I know, not say much as one of them is a WR now). He had done enough the previous week to beat the Pack, and while I know AP had a ton to do with that, he made throws when he needed to in both of his games against the Pack.

Now you sound like you aren't paying attention. The Packers had nothing to play for in week 17. The Vikings were playing for a spot in the playoffs and Peterson was trying to set the single season rushing record.

I was more worried about Webb's ability to beat you with his legs than Ponder's ability to beat you with his arm. Maybe more complete, but possibly not as dangerous as Joe Webb.

Ponder was one of the worst starting QB's in the NFL going into this season, if not the worst.

 

[Maelstrom]

I don't quite understand why anyone thinks that Freeman will be better than Ponder. Freeman looked like a good young QB in his first two years. He has been awful in his last two. Ponder actually has a better completion percentage the last two years. Now you take Freeman and put him in an offense he isn't familiar with. Surround him with skill position players he doesn't know. He takes a major downgrade at WR. Vincent Jackson and Mike Williams are signicantly better than Jennings and Simpson. He has an improvement at TE, RB, and he is probably behind a better line in Minnesota. Although I thought Tampa was going to have a solid o-line, that does not seem to be the case. But you put all this together I don't understand how this is a big improvement for Minnesota.

It would be one thing if Minnesota was a playoff team that had a catastrophic injury at QB. They aren't, and they didn't. This is a mediocre team that isn't much closer to making the playoffs now than they were three days ago. The Raiders made the big move for Palmer a couple of years ago because they thought they were actually a playoff team. If the Vikings believe that this makes them a playoff team then they are delusional.

They are spending $3 million in cap money that could probably be invested in extending some of their current players. I think they will have a very tough time teaching Freeman the offense, and getting him familiar with the surrounding cast this year. So then you end up trying to determine if you resign Freeman, or if you draft a QB, or both. All in all I think this is a move that doesn't make much sense for the Vikings.

Last season:Freeman YPA = 7.35

Ponder YPA = 5.93

Freeman was going downfield more than Ponder so that at least partially explains Ponder having a better completion percentage. Freeman brings a downfield passing threat that Ponder just does not bring. I think that could be a good thing to add into the recipe for this Vikings team with Peterson and their ability to run. It could pose problems for defenses. Freeman may actually be getting some better looks in Minnesota than in Tampa. Jennings has looked alright out there and Jerome Simpson is a under rated deep threat. Maybe they can even get Patterson involved running some deep routes with Freeman's ability to get the ball downfield.

Ponder is terrible. I mean just awful. I've watched several Vikings games this year and it was hard to watch. I felt bad for AP.

And, maybe you forgot, but this team went to the playoffs last year despite Ponder being terrible. The Packers crushed them in the playoffs by selling out to stop the run and taking a chance letting Ponder beat them. I do believe Freeman can make a defense pay for doing that where Ponder cannot.

Bolded pretty much proves you don't pay much attention and invalidates your opinion in my eyes. Ponder did not play in that game, Webb was the QB. Glad to see the Vikings trying something else to improve their lot, and Ponder isn't the answer, but he isn't terrible. He just isn't a starting QB. Maybe in a few years he'll grow into a role somewhere, but too much was asked of him to early.

It really doesn't prove anything. I watched the game, but yes, you are correct, I forgot Webb played. Really, though, the same holds true with Webb or Ponder in at QB. In fact as a Packers fan I was more worried about Webb than Ponder.

It would have been a completely different game with Ponder in there. He is a more complete QB than Webb (I know, not say much as one of them is a WR now). He had done enough the previous week to beat the Pack, and while I know AP had a ton to do with that, he made throws when he needed to in both of his games against the Pack.

Now you sound like you aren't paying attention. The Packers had nothing to play for in week 17. The Vikings were playing for a spot in the playoffs and Peterson was trying to set the single season rushing record.I was more worried about Webb's ability to beat you with his legs than Ponder's ability to beat you with his arm. Maybe more complete, but possibly not as dangerous as Joe Webb.

Ponder was one of the worst starting QB's in the NFL going into this season, if not the worst.

Not being a Ponder apologist, and it's easy in hindsight to say he would have been a better choice over Webb. But I do believe that. I don't think he is the worst in league going into this year, but I'd agree he was probably bottom 5-10 though, and the Vikings were hoping he would improve to middle of the pack, which he didn't do. Hence why he is out of a (starting) job.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I don't think he is the worst in league going into this year, but I'd agree he was probably bottom 5-10 though, and the Vikings were hoping he would improve to middle of the pack, which he didn't do. Hence why he is out of a (starting) job.

If you have the #22 quarterback and your hope is that someday he might improve to being the #16 quarterback, then you shouldn't be managing a professional football team.