Jump on the wagon (1 Viewer)

[BGP]

Everyone seems to forget about the Steelers having the 2nd highest rated QB in the league with a much worse supporting cast than QB1 or QB3 (Palmer).

Through his first 4 games of 2005, Big Ben threw 7 TDs and 0 INTs.Through his last 5 games (weeks 12-16) he has thrown 6 TDs and 5 INTs.

Sure, it could be due to injury. Last year his falloff in production could be due to injury as well. However, in both 2004 and 2005, the fact remains that his production tailed off at the end of each year. Its a trend that shouldn't be ignored.

Skewed stats. His first game back from injury was at Indy, he did play awful (58.7 passer rating, his only below 85 all year). But in the 4 games since then his QB ratings have been: 94.2, 109, 99 and 120. Any coach in the league would take those.

There are no skewed stats there. You are putting a heavy emphasis on passer rating. I'm not. If you feel you prefer passer rating, fine. But nothing has been skewed. I don't care how good any other stat is - if you start throwing more INTs than TDs, you eventually lose your job. Therefore, I start by looking at that ratio. Then if that checks out I look at YPA. I don't consider passer rating whatsoever and never have. And also I did note that he was injured. I noted that Ben gets injured a LOT. In his short career he CLEARLY has been injury-prone. One has to consider the odds of him suffering a new injury or reaggravating an old one is high with him.When I look at Ben's TD-to-INT ratio, in his last 5 games its completely mediocre. Until that gets fixed none of his other personal stats matter to me.

And in his last 3 games, it's infinitely high, since he hasn't thrown an interception in any of those games. On the other hand, Peyton Manning is 3/2 in his last 3 games, Jake Plummer is 3/1, Carson Palmer is 6/5 and Superman Tom Brady is only 5/2. Looks like over the last 3 weeks, Ben has the best TD/Int. ratio of any of the "star" AFC playoff QB's. Now there's a trend you've missed. Even if you go back four games, Manning is 6/2, Palmer is 9/5, Ben is 5/3, Plummer is 4/3 and Brady is 6/6, so Ben's ratio is only significantly worse than Peyton's. See, selective stats can be quite convincing.

If you are trying to prove that perhaps not just Ben is slumping, but several other playoff-bound QBs as well, I think you may have a point. I see nothing here that suggests Ben will turn things around.

Ben will turn what around? He hasn't thrown an interception in his last three games and in only 1 game this year has he thrown for more interceptions than TDs (vs Indy, after missing three games). He has the second highest QB rating in the NFL, less than 1 point behind Peyton Manning.

Turn around as in he clearly had a superior TD-to-INT ratio earlier in 2004 and 2005 than he did later in either season. He needs to show he can consistently perform well late in the year.

 

[3C's]

Coaches hate turnovers with a passion. A great runner will get benched if he fumbles. A great QB will get benched if he starts throwing more INTs than TDs.

Well, let the Favre benching countdown begin then.5..4..3..2..

 

[Godsbrother]

Everyone seems to forget about the Steelers having the 2nd highest rated QB in the league with a much worse supporting cast than QB1 or QB3 (Palmer).

Through his first 4 games of 2005, Big Ben threw 7 TDs and 0 INTs.Through his last 5 games (weeks 12-16) he has thrown 6 TDs and 5 INTs.

Sure, it could be due to injury. Last year his falloff in production could be due to injury as well. However, in both 2004 and 2005, the fact remains that his production tailed off at the end of each year. Its a trend that shouldn't be ignored.

Skewed stats. His first game back from injury was at Indy, he did play awful (58.7 passer rating, his only below 85 all year). But in the 4 games since then his QB ratings have been: 94.2, 109, 99 and 120. Any coach in the league would take those.

There are no skewed stats there. You are putting a heavy emphasis on passer rating. I'm not. If you feel you prefer passer rating, fine. But nothing has been skewed. I don't care how good any other stat is - if you start throwing more INTs than TDs, you eventually lose your job. Therefore, I start by looking at that ratio. Then if that checks out I look at YPA. I don't consider passer rating whatsoever and never have. And also I did note that he was injured. I noted that Ben gets injured a LOT. In his short career he CLEARLY has been injury-prone. One has to consider the odds of him suffering a new injury or reaggravating an old one is high with him.When I look at Ben's TD-to-INT ratio, in his last 5 games its completely mediocre. Until that gets fixed none of his other personal stats matter to me.

And in his last 3 games, it's infinitely high, since he hasn't thrown an interception in any of those games. On the other hand, Peyton Manning is 3/2 in his last 3 games, Jake Plummer is 3/1, Carson Palmer is 6/5 and Superman Tom Brady is only 5/2. Looks like over the last 3 weeks, Ben has the best TD/Int. ratio of any of the "star" AFC playoff QB's. Now there's a trend you've missed. Even if you go back four games, Manning is 6/2, Palmer is 9/5, Ben is 5/3, Plummer is 4/3 and Brady is 6/6, so Ben's ratio is only significantly worse than Peyton's. See, selective stats can be quite convincing.

If you are trying to prove that perhaps not just Ben is slumping, but several other playoff-bound QBs as well, I think you may have a point. I see nothing here that suggests Ben will turn things around.

Ben will turn what around? He hasn't thrown an interception in his last three games and in only 1 game this year has he thrown for more interceptions than TDs (vs Indy, after missing three games). He has the second highest QB rating in the NFL, less than 1 point behind Peyton Manning.

Turn around as in he clearly had a superior TD-to-INT ratio earlier in 2004 and 2005 than he did later in either season. He needs to show he can consistently perform well late in the year.

Well I consider weeks 14, 15 and 16 pretty late in the year. In those games he has a superior TD-to-INT ratio because he hasn't thrown a pick. Really Ben has only had one poor game all season (Indy).

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I just ask this question again, reposted from last season's Steelers-Patriots AFC title game thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=2364854

Its funny that I have ripped just about every playoff team, but only Steelers fans can't take it. Why are they so sensitive?

Seahawks:I can rip the Seahawks and say that they've underachieved under Holmgren and several clubs who have a lot of experience this year winning close games may ride into Seattle and steal a playoff game.

Bears:

I can rip the Bears and say they have no offense at all and will have a hard time advancing all the way.

Giants and Panthers:

I can rip them for inconsistent play.

Bucs:

I can rip them for having no reliable QB right now.

Patriots:

I can rip them for being unable to play at a high level consistently.

Broncos:

I can rip them for a total inability to get past the Colts in the playoffs. I can rip them for not winning in the playoffs since Elway left.

Colts:

I can rip them for the fact that Dungy hasn't won anything in the NFL yet and Peyton Manning doesnt have the best playoff resume either.

Bengals:

Lack the defense to advance far.

I can rip anyone. I've said just about all of these things at various points. Most of the time, I get no reaction. There's only one fanbase that gets in my face year-in and year-out.

The Steeler fans.

Why are they so sensitive about their team? You cannot criticize "the Great" Bill Cowher? He hasn't won anything. Get over it.

Nobody is being sensitive here but you. You are flat out wrong in your assessment of Roethlisberger. Anyone can look at a game or two and say a player is slumping, look at the big picture BGP. Over the past two seasons the Steelers 23 year old QB has similar or better numbers to the top two QBs in the NFL in your two favorite statistics:TD/INT Ratio 2004-2005

Tom Brady 1.96

Ben Roethlisberger 1.89

Yards Per Attempt 2004-2005

Ben Roethlisberger 8.90 YPA

Peyton Manning 8.75 YPA

Tom Brady 7.83 YPA

Criticize the Steelers as you like but when you are wrong it will be pointed out.

 

[bryhamm]

I think we are in store for 2 ABSOLUTELY TREMENDOUS Divisional playoff games:

NE at Indy

Pitt/Cincy at Denver

If Pittsburgh, as the 6 seed, wins its first round game, they would play at Indy in the divisional round. In other words, if the Steelers get the 6 seed, there is no way they can play Denver in the 2nd round.

I didnt know that they reseeded each round. The Pats have been locked into the #4 spot for so long I have just assumed an INDY/NE second round game.

They don't "reseed". The seed is the same as when the playoffs start. What you might be missing is that the #1 seed will host the lowest seed to advance from the wild card weekend and the #2 seed will host the highest seed to advance from the wild card weekend.

 

[BGP]

I just ask this question again, reposted from last season's Steelers-Patriots AFC title game thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=2364854

Its funny that I have ripped just about every playoff team, but only Steelers fans can't take it. Why are they so sensitive?

Seahawks:I can rip the Seahawks and say that they've underachieved under Holmgren and several clubs who have a lot of experience this year winning close games may ride into Seattle and steal a playoff game.

Bears:

I can rip the Bears and say they have no offense at all and will have a hard time advancing all the way.

Giants and Panthers:

I can rip them for inconsistent play.

Bucs:

I can rip them for having no reliable QB right now.

Patriots:

I can rip them for being unable to play at a high level consistently.

Broncos:

I can rip them for a total inability to get past the Colts in the playoffs. I can rip them for not winning in the playoffs since Elway left.

Colts:

I can rip them for the fact that Dungy hasn't won anything in the NFL yet and Peyton Manning doesnt have the best playoff resume either.

Bengals:

Lack the defense to advance far.

I can rip anyone. I've said just about all of these things at various points. Most of the time, I get no reaction. There's only one fanbase that gets in my face year-in and year-out.

The Steeler fans.

Why are they so sensitive about their team? You cannot criticize "the Great" Bill Cowher? He hasn't won anything. Get over it.

Nobody is being sensitive here but you. You are flat out wrong in your assessment of Roethlisberger. Anyone can look at a game or two and say a player is slumping, look at the big picture BGP. Over the past two seasons the Steelers 23 year old QB has similar or better numbers to the top two QBs in the NFL in your two favorite statistics:TD/INT Ratio 2004-2005

Tom Brady 1.96

Ben Roethlisberger 1.89

Yards Per Attempt 2004-2005

Ben Roethlisberger 8.90 YPA

Peyton Manning 8.75 YPA

Tom Brady 7.83 YPA

Criticize the Steelers as you like but when you are wrong it will be pointed out.

Ok, so people launch personal attacks at me and I'M the sensitive one. You are arguing a different point than I am. I watch the TD/INT ratio in general because when that goes south the QB gets benched. But in Ben's case, I am focusing on his late season numbers. For two straight seasons, they've gone south on him. I can offer several reasons here:

He is injury-prone. He dealt with injuries late in the season in each of his first two years now.

He may not be a cold-weather QB. His best game late in 2004 was in Florida when he played at the Jaguars. He threw 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Back in the cold weather he was awful. It was 30 degrees in Cincy when he threw 3 INTs in a loss in 2005.
He may not adjust well. Teams may have a better read on him late in the season and defend him better, and he may not be adjusting.Or it could be a combination of the three. Whatever it is, you cannot he has slumped late in each of his first two seasons now.

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

I just ask this question again, reposted from last season's Steelers-Patriots AFC title game thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=2364854

Its funny that I have ripped just about every playoff team, but only Steelers fans can't take it. Why are they so sensitive?

Seahawks:I can rip the Seahawks and say that they've underachieved under Holmgren and several clubs who have a lot of experience this year winning close games may ride into Seattle and steal a playoff game.

Bears:

I can rip the Bears and say they have no offense at all and will have a hard time advancing all the way.

Giants and Panthers:

I can rip them for inconsistent play.

Bucs:

I can rip them for having no reliable QB right now.

Patriots:

I can rip them for being unable to play at a high level consistently.

Broncos:

I can rip them for a total inability to get past the Colts in the playoffs. I can rip them for not winning in the playoffs since Elway left.

Colts:

I can rip them for the fact that Dungy hasn't won anything in the NFL yet and Peyton Manning doesnt have the best playoff resume either.

Bengals:

Lack the defense to advance far.

I can rip anyone. I've said just about all of these things at various points. Most of the time, I get no reaction. There's only one fanbase that gets in my face year-in and year-out.

The Steeler fans.

Why are they so sensitive about their team? You cannot criticize "the Great" Bill Cowher? He hasn't won anything. Get over it.

Nobody is being sensitive here but you. You are flat out wrong in your assessment of Roethlisberger. Anyone can look at a game or two and say a player is slumping, look at the big picture BGP. Over the past two seasons the Steelers 23 year old QB has similar or better numbers to the top two QBs in the NFL in your two favorite statistics:TD/INT Ratio 2004-2005

Tom Brady 1.96

Ben Roethlisberger 1.89

Yards Per Attempt 2004-2005

Ben Roethlisberger 8.90 YPA

Peyton Manning 8.75 YPA

Tom Brady 7.83 YPA

Criticize the Steelers as you like but when you are wrong it will be pointed out.

Ok, so people launch personal attacks at me and I'M the sensitive one. You are arguing a different point than I am. I watch the TD/INT ratio in general because when that goes south the QB gets benched. But in Ben's case, I am focusing on his late season numbers. For two straight seasons, they've gone south on him. I can offer several reasons here:

He is injury-prone. He dealt with injuries late in the season in each of his first two years now.

He may not be a cold-weather QB. His best game late in 2004 was in Florida when he played at the Jaguars. He threw 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Back in the cold weather he was awful. It was 30 degrees in Cincy when he threw 3 INTs in a loss in 2005.
He may not adjust well. Teams may have a better read on him late in the season and defend him better, and he may not be adjusting.Or it could be a combination of the three. Whatever it is, you cannot he has slumped late in each of his first two seasons now.

Ask Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage if Ben is in a slump. In his past 3 games (the last quarter of the season) Roethlisberger is:

36-55 (66% completions)

9.96 YPA

2 TD Passes/1 TD Run/0 INT

3-0 record

Keep in mind that Chicago is the #1 defense in the league and Cleveland is 11th in points allowed. Spin those stats how you will but you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that Roethlisberger is in a slump.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I just ask this question again, reposted from last season's Steelers-Patriots AFC title game thread:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...dpost&p=2364854

Its funny that I have ripped just about every playoff team, but only Steelers fans can't take it. Why are they so sensitive?

Seahawks:I can rip the Seahawks and say that they've underachieved under Holmgren and several clubs who have a lot of experience this year winning close games may ride into Seattle and steal a playoff game.

Bears:

I can rip the Bears and say they have no offense at all and will have a hard time advancing all the way.

Giants and Panthers:

I can rip them for inconsistent play.

Bucs:

I can rip them for having no reliable QB right now.

Patriots:

I can rip them for being unable to play at a high level consistently.

Broncos:

I can rip them for a total inability to get past the Colts in the playoffs. I can rip them for not winning in the playoffs since Elway left.

Colts:

I can rip them for the fact that Dungy hasn't won anything in the NFL yet and Peyton Manning doesnt have the best playoff resume either.

Bengals:

Lack the defense to advance far.

I can rip anyone. I've said just about all of these things at various points. Most of the time, I get no reaction. There's only one fanbase that gets in my face year-in and year-out.

The Steeler fans.

Why are they so sensitive about their team? You cannot criticize "the Great" Bill Cowher? He hasn't won anything. Get over it.

Nobody is being sensitive here but you. You are flat out wrong in your assessment of Roethlisberger. Anyone can look at a game or two and say a player is slumping, look at the big picture BGP. Over the past two seasons the Steelers 23 year old QB has similar or better numbers to the top two QBs in the NFL in your two favorite statistics:TD/INT Ratio 2004-2005

Tom Brady 1.96

Ben Roethlisberger 1.89

Yards Per Attempt 2004-2005

Ben Roethlisberger 8.90 YPA

Peyton Manning 8.75 YPA

Tom Brady 7.83 YPA

Criticize the Steelers as you like but when you are wrong it will be pointed out.

Ok, so people launch personal attacks at me and I'M the sensitive one. You are arguing a different point than I am. I watch the TD/INT ratio in general because when that goes south the QB gets benched. But in Ben's case, I am focusing on his late season numbers. For two straight seasons, they've gone south on him. I can offer several reasons here:

He is injury-prone. He dealt with injuries late in the season in each of his first two years now.

He may not be a cold-weather QB. His best game late in 2004 was in Florida when he played at the Jaguars. He threw 2 TDs and 0 INTs. Back in the cold weather he was awful. It was 30 degrees in Cincy when he threw 3 INTs in a loss in 2005.
He may not adjust well. Teams may have a better read on him late in the season and defend him better, and he may not be adjusting.Or it could be a combination of the three. Whatever it is, you cannot he has slumped late in each of his first two seasons now.

Last year, he wore down as a rookie in the NFL like most rookies do. He's admitted that time and time again.Right now, he's playing very, very well. You can go back to the Colts game if you want, but that was his first game back after missing a month. He looked rusty, and his numbers were sub par.

He then threw for 386 yards and 3 TDs with his 3 INTs in the game against Cincy, and he spent most of the game passing. I love how you mention his 3 INTs without actually mentioning anything else about that day. He was the reason the game was as close as it was, because the defense didn't show up that day.

And in his last 3 games, he's thrown for 2 TDs, run for 1 TD, and thrown no INTs. His completion percentage is at 65% (36-55) and his YPA during these 3 games is 9.96. He threw for over 150 yards in the first QUARTER against Cleveland, and god only knows how good he'd have been that day if the Browns could've kept it close.

If you think he's playing poor football right now, you aren't paying attention.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think everyone needs to remember this is still only Roethlisberger's second NFL season! Considering that, I think he has performed pretty well this year, especially considering he only has one reliable receiver.

 

[Steelers4Life]

BGP, one other thing.If you don't consider Roethlisberger a good cold weather QB, you might look at these games:1. the Giants in week 15 last year, Ben threw for 18-28-316 yards with a TD and 2 INTs. He was great that day, and the Steelers won a high scoring shootout because of him. 2. the Ravens in week 16 last year, Ben wnet 14-19-221 yards with 2 TDs and an INT. I was at that game, and it was DAMN cold.3. the Bears a few weeks ago, Ben went 13-20-173 yards with a TD and no INTs. Nah, Ben's not a cold weather guy.

 

[Godsbrother]

You would think that a fan of the Browns would appreciate just how good of a QB Roethlisberger is after the drek that Cleveland has paraded behind center for all these years.The guy is only 23, has a career winning record of 23-3 and is second in the NFL this season in quarterback rating, trailing only Peyton Manning by less than 1 point. As I said before, Ben has only had ONE poor game all season, against Indy and that was after being out for neraly a month. Aside from that, Ben has not had ANY games where he threw more picks than TDs, which is what BGP keeps insisting is his weakness.

 

[3C's]

Are you guys blind? Ben had a bad game against Indy. There's no excuse for it. Colts have a horrible D. He's obviously in a slump. And he's injury prone. And can't play in cold weather. He's lucky they pumped heat into the stadium when he played college ball in Ohio. Take your blinders off homers. Geez!

 

[Franknbeans]

BGP because that's all he has...He's a Browns fan after all Cut him some slackOh and

 

[Chase Stuart]

Pittsburgh has won its last three games by a score of 80-12.

They've allowed 268 yards, 185 yards and 178 yards the past three weeks, averaging just 210 ypg. (The Bears lead the league averaging just 268 yards per game allowed).

Roethlisberger has a 103.4 QB rating, averaging 8.9 YPA. Manning leads the league with a 104.3 QB rating, and is second in the NFL with 8.3 YPA.

FWP is averaging 4.7 YPC and is over 1,000 rushing yards for the season.

Great Defense + Great QB + Great running game (when you factor in Bus for the playoffs) = darkhorse team. Cincinnati, Denver and NE might be the flashy picks to top Indy, but I'd put my money on the Steelers right now. It's all about getting hot at the right time.

 

[mervis]

Pitt fans, remember 97 and the Kordell debacle?!Revenge is sweet, and Ben is just a Tad better then Kordell!!!!!! mervis