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Just did the unthinkable....Traded LT for R.Bush . (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
- Start date
stevejohnson
Footballguy
8 million ways to die and he chose.....He still hasn't said what his league fees are. If it's under $100 why not take a risk but if it's more then that he should just donate that money to the Salvation Army because he has no shot to win after that deal...
Red Apples
Footballguy
heres the big thing...bush ain't a texan yet.why not wait, till after the nfl draft & make the move, because i guarantee you still would have been able to do it.but i guess you would have missed out on months of creaming about this trade and you couldn't do that could you?
jurb26
Footballguy
EdwardCat
Footballguy
A RB that places 3rd in standard scoring 4 years in a row shows amazing consistency and production. There are always players who are going to spike with amazing production (Jamal Lewis comes to mind). A player who can place 3rd without fail gives you a better chance in a dynasty than the player who is all over the map.
jurb26
Footballguy
I was never agruing for or against the value of his consistency. Only the missinterpretation that LT has been the #1 FF RB and concenous #1 overall pick. It simply isn't true. I agree with you point which is why I stated earlier that he should have gotten more out of the deal. I think LT will be slowing down sooner rather than later too, but that is another topic. I cn see why he would want to make the move.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
This is not a bad deal IMO.He got a lot of solid value in that trade, including what is already viewed as a top 5-10 dynasty RB in Reggie Bush.I love LT and think he is the top dynasty RB, but some of you are acting like there is no way he can win this trade, which is nuts.Very fair deal considering both teams situations.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Don't worry about, Bush may flop but his potential is in the same area code as Tomlinson's. You will reap the benefits from this trade in a year or two, assuming LT slows down like many RB's historically do.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
League fee is 75.00....I think its worth the gamble. Also was kinda pissed off at LT....really, this 2 years in a row he sucked in the part of the season that means the most....and Turner comes in and does his job like it aint nothing. Not to say LT isnt great cause he is the best IMO, but look at his workload.............there using the #### out of him which is cool for your fantasy team but bad when he needs to rest in the 2nd half of most games when it counts. True enough BUSH hasnt done diddly squat on the NFL level....i agree but no one cant say this guy is flat out special....I was watching some high school tape on him and he was doing all that shakin and bakin back then with all the jumping over people-stop and startings and spin moves. I had thought somewhat he was a product of USC system but thats clearly not the case......like i said before LT himself said this dude is special.....Even the guy trading him felt this way before he secured the top pick. I just feel with his knack of open field greatness he will be an instant star in the NFL.....i can see him producing 1100 rushing 500 recieveing right off the bat with who knows how many td's. And if you dont have him before then and then try and trade a STUD rb ie SA or LT for a young dynamic rb, i dont think to many owners of BUSH would even budge.....why? (dynasty format).
faulkfan
Footballguy
I think Bush will be a good one and I intend to try and make a deal for the #1 pick myself, but my big question about him is unlike LT who played for a mediocre team in college with mediocre talent around him, Bush plays a fairly easy pac-10 schedule and is surrounded by a team full of blue chip prospects and another potential #1 pick. He will most likely go to a bad team with little talent around him and it could be much more difficult to be as electric. I think he will be good, but it is hard to judge a guys talent when he has a team as good as he has around him. It will be more telling when he is surrounded by crap.
Dirk Digler
Footballguy
OUch. Brutally bad trade!. Our first official casuality from the dreaded off season hype monster.R.I.P.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
SO you mean to tell me that USC is the reason BUSH is good....not his atheletic ablitlty alone? Sounds like the denver rb conspiracy....I dont think he's a product of USC having blue chip players, there not the ones making those hellefied cuts and have that great vision. Kinda makes me think when i was talking about LJ a few weeks ago, seems like no one even touches this guy till he has already 9 yards.....i was like damm.....is it him or is it KC's line that makes him so awesome. Granted it is some of the line but LJ is a pure stud....its not his fault his line can block well.....He does have nice busrt/power and some vision. All this goes back to BUSH, i think its pretty much all on him...LenDale runs behind that same line and his ypc isnt nowhere near Bush's even though i like lendale alot too. If anything i think LEINART is highly overrated cause of have BUSH and Jarret/Smith/White and others to throw it to and them make his numbers look great. I watched the game versus UCLA and Leinart looked damn nare AVERAGE....so many over throws.....i was trying to see if he's as good as advertised...Im not impressed.And come next year, when i join 2 or 3 more dynasty leagues.My top picks are:LJSALTPortisEdgeBUSHMore than likely if i dont land the top pick (LJ) i will trade down to 4-5 range to grab Bush and get another pick like in the 3rd or 4th round and let someone else grab LT SA EDGE.....
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jurb26
Footballguy
The time to trade for Bush (or the rights to the pick) is going to be just before the combine IMO. No need to rush it now. Yes, there is a mild chance he gets injured in the Texas game. There is also a mild chance that LT gets hurt in the preseason or something too, which nobody seems to want to talk about. There is an even smaller chance that he does not come out. That of course is highly doubtful. No matter what Bush does in the Texas game though, his stock WILL NOT RISE any more than it already is. Which IMO means if you want to make a play for him, wait it out and maybe hope he underperforms in the Texas game. I know I am.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
Hey Jub26Whats your plans with all those top rookie picks.10 Team Dynasty, Start: 2QB, 2RB, 4WR, 2TE, K, D, FlexQB: M.Bulger, R.Grossman, B.Leftwich, J.McCown,M.McMahon, A.WalterRB: M.Alstott, M.Faulk, L.Gordon, C.Houston®, K.Jones, A.Pinner, C.Portis, A.SteckerWR: D.Branch, A.Bryant, Key.Johnson, B.Llyod, J.McCareins, S.Moss, T.Williamson®TE: D.Clark, C.Cooley, T.Heap, H.Miller®K: N.Kaeding, J.WilkinsD: Chi, WashRecord for 2005: 6-7Picks 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 2.03 and 2.04 in upcoming rookie draft.1.02 1.03 1.04 are you planning to package them for 1.01....or just gonna snag DeAngelo, Maroney, Lendale?
jurb26
Footballguy
Ugh, my intention back 4 months ago when I aquired all the picks was that one of them WOULD land me Bush and the 1.01. Turns out I made a mild miscalculation.
I am currently in trade talks with the Bush, errr 1.01 owner. He wants like most everyone does a lot though. Probably something along the lines of 1.02, 1.04 and K.Jones. As badly as I want Bush (lol), I just don't know that there is enough seperation between him and the other 3 backs coming out. Especially not right now w/o knowing the teams they land on. If White or Maroney land in a cherry spot like Pitt, that seems nearly as good as landing Bush. As of now, I'm leaning towards hedging my bets and going with the 3 lesser RBs. It's something I'm in no hurry to decide on though and will simply enjoy watching the UCS/Texas game for now. 
Not that I have any say in the matter bro - but I'd hold onto those picks instead of going for bush. Our league is all about depth! Look where the LT, SA, and LJ owners ended up...Or maybe I'm just using reverse psychology ...Ugh, my intention back 4 months ago when I aquired all the picks was that one of them WOULD land me Bush and the 1.01. Turns out I made a mild miscalculation.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Back to the topic at hand, I like most agree that the guy getting LT definitely got the better end of this deal.However, I don't think this trade is as uneven as most people seem to be implying, and I have to admit I just flat out disagree with a handful of the points being made on the LT side of things.For starters, this notion that there is no going up from LT is just flat out wrong. LT is the consensus #1 pick in a dynasty league, yes, but that's because he's consistently near the top, not at the top. As has already been pointed out in this thread, in a standard scoring league LT has never finished better than #3.Now, for those who think the difference between #3 and #1 is negligible, try this stat on for size. In the last few years, when KC has had a feature RB, their starting RB has averaged more than 8 points per game more than LT. How big is that? Well, 8 points per game is also the difference between LT and Warrick Dunn. Sure, no one knows how good or bad Bush is going to be, but to assume his upside is LT's current production is just not the case. Not to mention if he ends up on the Texans he will be landing in a pretty good FF situation, as Houston has had success with any RB they put in there and likes to throw to their backs out of the backfield, imagine what a truly great RB can do in that system? Again, we don't know if Bush is that RB yet, but the potential is certainly there and Bush's upside certainly exceeds LT's current production.Likewise, the OP also brings up a good point about LT in that he seems to be developing a habit of fading during the FF playoffs. LT is one of the greatest fantasy RB's of the last couple decades no doubt, but he needs to be there at the end of the year to really move to the top. That's what made Marshall so great, not only was he great all season long, but come FF playoff time he was dancing in the endzone 4 times per game and putting up 40 point FF games. Larry Johnson is moving along the same path, as the last two years the guy has put up at least 100 yards and 2 TDs in EVERY game from weeks 13-17.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
People seem to think LT is untradeable....well.....I dont think so. He is one of my favorite players and one of the best rb's ive seen since Barry but the last 2 years im seeing a decline....Since when does anyone share LT spotlight? S.Alexander was always considered a shade below LT and others as well. Only Priest was only considered a more dominating rb but the knock on priest was that he was up there in age with a 1st rounder waiting in the wings.Well I rather have LJ ALLDAY over LT now.....LJ's offense is more geared to him....He never had to come out and say i want the ball more....
Thats really to say San Diego has developed a more balenced offense. And man i mean LT is really good but when i cant watch him i follow his games on nfl.com gamecast and he constantly get 1 and 2 yards per carry....?
Then he goes off for a few runs. But following Larry Johnson on gamecast is ridiculous....12 yrds, 15yrds, 10yrds 25yrds I be like DAMN...( I own him in my other dynasty). And even when i follow Shaun Alexander (whom i dont own in any league) he gets yardage by the chuncks also. And i know LY was banged up but even before the injury i was somewhat dissapointed at his rushing totals. My league awards a 5 point bonus for 25 carries which he rarely hit and t wasnt like he was setting the world on fire with his rushing yardage.....I mean i had high goals of him, he did say he wanted 2200+ rushing yardage to begin the season and this is coming from IMO the greatest rb ive seen in awhile....Burned me 2 years in a row now....Is he starting to decline....i cant answer that. But when the rest of the others (SA LJ Tiki) get to catching and surpassing him it makes me wonder.
Funny how LJ didnt start alot of those 1st games and almost got close to the rushing leader and was i think 2nd in rushing td's.
I now own the 1.01 pick in 2 of my 3 dynasty leagues.....And i wouldnt accept no one outside of Larry Johnson for that pick. If i dont get him then fine. Will keep it and move on.
WarRedbirds
Footballguy
Agreed. If Bush is in the right system/playing for the right team, he will be a star in this league.
DropKick
Footballguy
This is a great deal. Even before the season, I didn't believe LT was the consensus #1 pick. I think he and Alexander are very close in terms of value. Likewise, Ward and Chambers are too when you consider Chambers' untapped potential and the advertised change in offensive philosophy in Miami. To get Cadillac as the deal maker is
DropKick
Footballguy
Well, brotha... I like your spirit.I don't know how much money you play for... maybe it's just beer money or bragging rights but I also like to roll the dice in fantasy football. Certainly the consequences are less than shooting the moon on the kid's college fund.It is a swing for the fences move and it COULD work. NFL RBs don't last forever. Five years and over 2,000 career touches could take their toll on LT2. Time will tell.I'm looking forward to getting a look at Reggie tomorrow night.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
i will be looking at a few potential draftees myself tomorrow....White Bush Young
Trade's not terrible, although I definitely would've waited until after the Bowl - I don't think hte price could've gone up much, but if he gets hurt or plays poorly it woudl change the scenario.As I see it, you've now got all your eggs in the Bush/Gore basket - while this would be awesome if you were trying to pick the president of the US from the post-Clinton election, it's not so hot for FF.I see the trade like this:LT for Rivers, Bush & Gore - risky but reasonable I'd seriously think about movign the 1.01 for two other top picks, since if you can get 3 top RB propsects, you only need to hit on 2 of them, and Gore is looking good so far. You might find Rivers to be usful if Brees misses time.Lelie for Williams & a 4th - I think this about even, Lelie won't be a stud WR, nor will MWilliams - he might be a stud TE, though if he moves there. He also might get significanlty better next year with less rust and better conditioning.I wish I had offers like this when I held the 1.01 - all I got was Charles Rogers & Kevin Jones the 2 years, and tehe team I inherited reeked.
M
MLBrandow
Guest
And what will you do when Bush pulls a McGahee in the Rose Bowl?
Franknbeans
Footballguy
Big IF considering LT already is
WarRedbirds
Footballguy
I got to give it to the BROTHA for going with his gut.It's certainly a gamble...I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that this trade works in his favor. If Bush wasn't going to Houston, with their pitiful offensive line, I'd feel much better about the trade.Who says that Bush is necessarily going to end up in Houston though?
WarRedbirds
Footballguy
Listening to a Tony Dungy interview yesterday on Dan Patrick show. Dungy is a big Reggie Bush fan. He said Bush will be a "Marshall Faulk" type player, who has the ability to be an every down back. He also is mildly disappointed that Bush is going to Houston, as he will have to face him potentially for the next 8 years.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
at the idea that Tomlinson fades down the stretch. Yes, this year he did. Let's look at his game-by-game totals for the 2 prior years....2004Week 12 - 103 yds and 2 TDsWeek 13 - 130 yds and 2 TDsWeek 14 - 150 yds and 1 TDWeek 15 - 111 yds and 2 TDsWeek 16 - 176 yds and 2 TDs2003Week 12 - 144 yds and 1 TDWeek 13 - 123 yds and 1 TDWeek 14 - 236 yds and 2 TDsWeek 15 - 195 yds and 2 TDsWeek 16 - 99 yds and 2 TDsWeek 17 - 260 yds and 2 TDsHe goes through a 1 month slump at the end of this year and suddenly people are trading him for a college guy with a ton of hype who will be going to one of the worst teams in the league. Personally, I believe in buying low and selling high but I guess not everyone feels the same way.
jurb26
Footballguy
How in the world could you sell LT any higher? Have you read through this thread? Everyone here with a few exceptions is convinced he is the #1 overall player and God-like. I'll repaeat it again, LT has never been the #1 RB let alone #1 player. Even dispite this he is continually sited as so. Given this situation, how could one possibly sell LT at any better point? Anyone who is buying LT thinks and is prepared to pay for the #1 overall player.
Synthesizer
Footballguy
Just because you rank a guy #1 overall doesn't mean you guarantee that he will finish as the #1 RB. Considering that his downside seems to be RB #3 (he's finished there 4 straight years), some people would value this consistency over someone else who MAY finish as RB #1. Look at the question marks surrounding the other guys ranked near him (Alexander and LJ). That's why you would rank Tomlinson #1.
He just went through the worst 6 game stretch of his career. 6 weeks ago you probably could have gotten rookie pick 1.1 plus Larry Johnson for him. Who knows what you could get for him after a few monster games at the beginning of next season.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
Was watching cold pizza and they say Reggie Bush 40 time is 4.25, thats gots to the the fastest rb already in the league.....He up there with L.Coles and D.Stallworth.
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wannabee
Footballguy
I am in the minority with you and Jurb. I like the trade. Here is why:Rivers looks better today than a week ago. Will Brees be back?Gore looks like a starting RB in this league (health permitting)Williams is a chump now. Could improve????Bush. Ding. Ding. Ding. Most would believe Bush is worth a RB in the top 5. We all just disagree where in the Top 5. For argument sake, let's say the 1.01 pick is worth Edge. Edge, with all of the unknowns about next year, yada, yada, yada. So, would you trade LT for Edge, Gore, and Rivers in dynasty. I would. I am not saying Edge=Bush. Just pointing out values.So, yes, I'd trade LT for Bush, Gore, and Rivers.
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THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
His roster after the trade:(3-10 record) Losman, J.P. BUF QB Palmer, Carson CIN QB Droughns, Reuben CLE RB Duckett, T.J. ATL RB Lewis, Jamal BAL RB Suggs, Lee CLE RB Tomlinson, Ladainian SDC RB Clayton, Michael TBB WR Fitzgerald, Larry ARI WR Lelie, Ashley DEN WR Morton, Johnnie SFO WR Northcutt, Dennis CLE WR Roby, Courtney TEN WR White, Roddy ATL WR Williamson, Troy MIN WR Franks, Bubba GBP TE Witten, Jason DAL TE Janikowski, Sebastian OAK PK Reed, Jeff PIT PK Ravens, Baltimore BAL Def Mine after the trade(8-5 record)Campbell, Jason WAS QB Frerotte, Gus MIA QB Rivers, Philip SDC QB Rodgers, Aaron GBP QB Schaub, Matt ATL QB Vick, Michael ATL QB (1.01 rookie pick more than likely R.Bush) Barber, Marion DAL RB Bell, Tatum DEN RB Foster, De'shaun CAR RB Gore, Frank SFO RB Peterson, Adrian CHI RB Taylor, Chester BAL RB Turner, Michael SDC RB Burress, Plaxico NYG WR Jones, Brandon TEN WR Lloyd, Brandon SFO WR Muhammad, Muhsin CHI WR Wilford, Ernest JAC WR Williams, Mike DET WR Cooley, Chris WAS TE Stevens, Jerramy SEA TE Elam, Jason DEN PK Colts, Indianapolis IND Def His roster is obviously better with him and now he have 3 to 4 solid additions...(LT/C.Palmer/Fitz/Witten) He has a nice core..... Especially if J.Lewis falls somewhere nice.My roster is alittle bit more shakey (was before the trade also IMO). Vick was a top 6 qb in my format....so he is OK...So really I all I have IMO is him....PLAX is ok but alittle to inconsistent to me. But i will say i do really like my wr core even though they havent done much or have the big names....I have high hopes for Wilford, Mushin LLoyd (if he signs elsewhere) and Brandon Jones for next year. My te's situation is ok. And my rb's situation is up in the air right now....Like i say I will have to see what the future holds for FOSTER-MBIII-CHESTA-GORE-T.BELL. Doesnt seem all that great right now but hopefully i can build around my new young rookie coming in next year. Will more than likely trade off a few qb's if they land in a good situation ie Schaub and Rivers.So this trade can be looked at alot of diffrent ways...but i agree right now his team may be a tad bit better....maybe...maybe not......but i like the move i did.....I felt Bush is such a great talent .....why not go for it. Plus i like what i really saw from Gore when i watched him....and who knows what might happen with Foster, if he leads Carolina to a few playoff wins he may be there feature rb next year.
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FFFIEND
Footballguy
I would have waited to make the trade. You don't want Bush to get hurt. You also might want to wait to just make sure that Houston actually DOES take Bush. Since LT2's value won't change between now and then, I would just rather wait and see what happens between now and then.This said, the trade doesn't look that terrible. But it has the potential to be terrible.
Red Apples
Footballguy
so now what you draft vince young?sucker.
salmonstud
Footballguy
Brotha,I have an opening in my $100 keeper league....do you want in? 
Seriously, I think you got bent over on this trade. Bush could be the next Marshall Faulk, but he could easily be the next W.Dunn/T.Bell. There are many potential suitors that could trade into the 1.1 or 1.2/1.3 slot and take Bush and only give him 15 touches per game...which is what he might see or less if Houston sits tight and takes himi 1st overall. He is the perfect RBBC back. RBBC backs are not good fantasy backs...they can be good...but never elite. On the bright side...Gore could turn out to be a starting back and if the Fords ever trade the Lions franchise...maybe Mike Williams will turn into a decent WR....and P.Rivers actually becomes a starting QB....and um.......allot of ifs!
Seriously, I think you got bent over on this trade. Bush could be the next Marshall Faulk, but he could easily be the next W.Dunn/T.Bell. There are many potential suitors that could trade into the 1.1 or 1.2/1.3 slot and take Bush and only give him 15 touches per game...which is what he might see or less if Houston sits tight and takes himi 1st overall. He is the perfect RBBC back. RBBC backs are not good fantasy backs...they can be good...but never elite. On the bright side...Gore could turn out to be a starting back and if the Fords ever trade the Lions franchise...maybe Mike Williams will turn into a decent WR....and P.Rivers actually becomes a starting QB....and um.......allot of ifs!
Riffraff
Footballguy
I will give you kudos for going out on a limb with your team.At least we all know YOU are managing the team, not the general consensus.In one of my dynasty leagues I have Gore, Rivers, and potentially the 1.01 pick (depends upon another owner's lottery roll). So, we're talking alot of the same players involved.That being said, I doubt I would have done the same deal. Though, it is making more sense when you factor in the young guys were probably all 1st round picks. LT for 3 first rounders is not unthinkable.
bro1ncos
IBL Representative
I don't think it is a horrible deal, but I am along the lines of keeping proven talent still in their prime as opposed to incoming rookie talent.That being said, I just traded 1.01 for 1.06, 1.09 and a 2rd rounder next year. I have a poor team that needs more talent then just one player.
Family Matters
Footballguy
Here's another way to look at this trade. If you could get the #1 FF player for your team and all you had to give up was give up the #1 rookie pick and some unproven talent sitting on your bench, would you do it? Of course you would. It's a steal! That's what the other owner did. He looks like a genious right now.With that said, I hope this works out for you. Perhaps over the next 3 years it will. Bush may be real good and Rivers could become a decent QB. Who knows. But there is no doubt in my mind that LT has another 2-3 years of top level performance. Perhaps you both will benefit over time. Good luck!
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
********************* BUMP **************************
SO is LT and Lelie
for Reggie Bush, P.Rivers, F.Gore and a 4th rounder still that bad of a deal....?
I dont think it was and i don thtink it is now....although my roster looks COMPLETELY different.....
SO is LT and Lelie
for Reggie Bush, P.Rivers, F.Gore and a 4th rounder still that bad of a deal....?
I dont think it was and i don thtink it is now....although my roster looks COMPLETELY different.....
