Just who are the Fascist? (1 Viewer)

[TobiasFunke]

People are excusing the behavior (suggesting Tucker is responsible for mass shootings), belittling the behavior (ding ding ditch), changing the subject (lots of discussion on threats against Ford), suggesting this is trolling....of course my post was sarcastic and exaggeratory, but some of the responses here are pretty bad.

You're the one who chose to frame the question as "just who are the fascists?  That was your choice.  If you didn't want a discussion of the relative sins of various groups of people who have been called fascists or who have committed other threatening or intimidating politically motivated acts in recent months, you shouldn't have framed it that way. You should have just started a thread titled "Losers bother Tucker Carlson's family at his home." If you'd done that we all would have said "what a bunch of ###holes" and moved on to discuss more important things elsewhere.

Instead you chose to ask a question clearly intended to draw comparisons, and now you're whining about the entirely valid and truthful answers you're getting.

 

[jon_mx]

If you think there's a factual error in my post, please point it out. Otherwise I really couldn't care less about the subjective opinions of a man who seems far more concerned about the "fascism" of a handful protestors who crossed the line than he does about the aspiring fascists running the country who kidnap children and throw them in detention centers, who ignore our duly enacted immigration laws regarding asylum, who threaten and bully the free press, who make baseless claims of "election fraud" that undermine our faith in democracy if not our democracy itself, who ignore the wishes of a Jewish community mourning mass murders in order to get a cheap photo-op and play the victim, who act at every turn as if they are above the rule of law.

You wanna know who the fascists are, Jon?  They're running the country, and your pathetic, transparent attempts at whataboutism and your political support for them and their allies enable them.

Having factual errors and being a terrible posts are not equivalent.  Your post is terrible because of your ridiculous assertion that Tucker somehow is responsible for a mass shooting and that these protests, threats, and vandalism is just an innocent little prank of ding dong ditch is absolutely ridiculous.  

Then you double down with this obnoxious post.  No we are not a fascist state and these protesters are a bunch of hypocritical thugs.  

 

[toshiba]

People are excusing the behavior (suggesting Tucker is responsible for mass shootings), belittling the behavior (ding ding ditch), changing the subject (lots of discussion on threats against Ford), suggesting this is trolling....of course my post was sarcastic and exaggeratory, but some of the responses here are pretty bad.

You're the one who chose to frame the question as "just who are the fascists?  That was your choice.  If you didn't want a discussion of the relative sins of various groups of people who have been called fascists or who have committed other threatening or intimidating politically motivated acts in recent months, you shouldn't have framed it that way. You should have just started a thread titled "Losers bother Tucker Carlson's family at his home." If you'd done that we all would have said "what a bunch of ###holes" and moved on to discuss more important things elsewhere.

Instead you chose to ask a question clearly intended to draw comparisons, and now you're whining about the entirely valid and truthful answers you're getting.

Troll is as Troll does.

 

[D Baseball]

Anyone claiming that TC partakes in violent rhetoric on his show has never seen it or is lying. 

 

[jon_mx]

Troll is as Troll does.

Keeping this forum cleansed!  Good work!

 

[tonydead]

What happened to the first thread about this?

As a decent human being Joe actually agreed with the OP.  After a few posts he must have realized the collective was turning against him and he decided to nuke the whole thing like it never existed.

 

[jon_mx]

You're the one who chose to frame the question as "just who are the fascists?  That was your choice.  If you didn't want a discussion of the relative sins of various groups of people who have been called fascists or who have committed other threatening or intimidating politically motivated acts in recent months, you shouldn't have framed it that way. You should have just started a thread titled "Losers bother Tucker Carlson's family at his home." If you'd done that we all would have said "what a bunch of ###holes" and moved on to discuss more important things elsewhere.

Instead you chose to ask a question clearly intended to draw comparisons, and now you're whining about the entirely valid and truthful answers you're getting.

It was a rhetorical question to make the point that people who utilize fascist tactics of violent thuggery to protest fascism are hypocrits.  

 

[msommer]

Is the whining rhetorical? Enquiring minds would like to know

(By now it's ecpected, but has it moved up?)

 

[TobiasFunke]

Anyone claiming that TC partakes in violent rhetoric on his show has never seen it or is lying. 

I guess it's a good thing nobody claimed that, then.

Here's what I said:

"Yesterday there was another mass shooting, killing 11. The second double-digit body count mass shooting in two weeks. The last one targeted Jews based on lies and fearmongering related to immigration- lies and fearmongering pushed by Tucker Carlson and his cohorts at Fox News, as it turns out."

Show me the lie.

 

[jon_mx]

Is the whining rhetorical? Enquiring minds would like to know

(By now it's ecpected, but has it moved up?)

Everything the right does on this forum is mischaracterized as whining or trolling and it is usually done by the biggest whiners and trolls on the left.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

It was a rhetorical question to make the point that people who utilize fascist tactics of violent thuggery to protest fascism are hypocrits.  

I suggest you look up the word "rhetorical"  (hint- if people can answer your question truthfully in a way that undermines your intended message then you have failed to ask a rhetorical question). Also the word "fascist" (hint- it requires an exercise of power and control, generally by a government).

 

[sho nuff]

As a decent human being Joe actually agreed with the OP.  After a few posts he must have realized the collective was turning against him and he decided to nuke the whole thing like it never existed.

The op of that thread admitted he deleted it...it wasn’t moderation.

 

[sho nuff]

Everything the right does on this forum is mischaracterized as whining or trolling and it is usually done by the biggest whiners and trolls on the left.  

You are agathe n making a large and false assertion of this board Jon.

 

[D Baseball]

Like I said earlier, anyone claiming TC partakes in violent rhetoric on his show is a liar. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

The President of the United States is mocking and discouraging the counting of legitimate votes in a recent election literally as we discuss this, and the OP has the nerve to ask "just who are the fascists?"  Come on.

 

[jon_mx]

I suggest you look up the word "rhetorical"  (hint- if people can answer your question truthfully in a way that undermines your intended message then you have failed to ask a rhetorical question). Also the word "fascist" (hint- it requires an exercise of power and control, generally by a government).

1.   Rhetorical...a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.

That is how I used it.

2.  Their tactics are fascist.  

You are arguing for the sake of arguing, imho.   

 

[msommer]

You are agathe n making a large and false assertion of this board Jon.

And whining in the process

 

[jon_mx]

You are agathe n making a large and false assertion of this board Jon.

No I am not...I can not enter this forum without someone pulling the whining, troll or race card.  It is not everyone, but it is always someone.

 

[Da Guru]

Anyone who does this to Carslon or Ford should be ready to die.

Actor James Woods said if  Antifa thugs had banged on his front door, as they did to Tucker Carlson’s front door, it would have been the last act in the “final five seconds” of the attacker’s life.

 

[TobiasFunke]

1.   Rhetorical...a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.

That is how I used it.

2.  Their tactics are fascist.  

You are arguing for the sake of arguing, imho.   

1.  I know what you were trying to do. You just failed at it, because the actual answer to your question is the opposite of what you intended to imply with your rhetoric.

2.  No they're not, because they're not the government and have no claim of authority or power. They're just childish and stupid.

I am arguing because what's going on in this country is obscene and disturbing and your rhetorical attempt to minimize that and distract from it was dumb and bad,.

 

[zftcg]

The fascists I really hate are the grammar Nazis who insist on following stupid rules like subject-verb agreement.

Agrees to disagreed.

 

[D Baseball]

Anyone who does this to Carslon or Ford should be ready to die.

Actor James Woods said if  Antifa thugs had banged on his front door, as they did to Tucker Carlson’s front door, it would have been the last act in the “final five seconds” of the attacker’s life.

Great charachter actor. Loved him in Casino. 

 

[Da Guru]

Great charachter actor. Loved him in Casino. 

Would not want to bang Woods door down...pretty sure bullets would come flying through.

 

[jon_mx]

1.  I know what you were trying to do. You just failed at it, because the actual answer to your question is the opposite of what you intended to imply with your rhetoric.

2.  No they're not, because they're not the government and have no claim of authority or power. They're just childish and stupid.

I am arguing because what's going on in this country is obscene and disturbing and your rhetorical attempt to minimize that and distract from it was dumb and bad,.

Using threats of violence to intimate opponents is not a tactic of fascists?  You are really going to argue that?

 

[sho nuff]

No I am not...I can not enter this forum without someone pulling the whining, troll or race card.  It is not everyone, but it is always someone.

Then you should probably stop whining so much.  Every other day (that is an observation not necessarily an accurate account of time) you are in here complaining about moderation or how you are treated or moderation. 

There are countless examples lately of racism by Trump (I don’t recall people calling you a racist even recently at all).  And there is a ton of trolling going on and many have stepped up and said you are not as much that way.

 

[zftcg]

Great charachter actor. Loved him in Casino. 

Did you ever see Diggstown, with Louis Gosset Jr.? I'm a sucker for a good "con" movie.

On the other hand, Woods himself has really gone off the deep end with the political stuff.

 

[jon_mx]

Then you should probably stop whining so much.  Every other day (that is an observation not necessarily an accurate account of time) you are in here complaining about moderation or how you are treated or moderation. 

There are countless examples lately of racism by Trump (I don’t recall people calling you a racist even recently at all).  And there is a ton of trolling going on and many have stepped up and said you are not as much that way.

Everyone on this forum whines.  They whine about how Trump acts or whatever the topic of the day is.  Arguing what is right, wrong or inappropriate is all whining.   That is what politics is all about.  I am making points about how awful and disrespectful behavior on this forum is.  

 

[TobiasFunke]

Using threats of violence to intimate opponents is not a tactic of fascists?  You are really going to argue that?

No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that using a "tactic of fascism" doesn't make something fascist. It has to be done by someone in a position of power.  What you're doing is akin to calling a man a lesbian because he performs oral sex on women, which is a "tactic" of lesbians. Your argument here is equally silly.  And you're doing to minimize actual fascist tactics by actually powerful people who are at the upper reaches of our government, which makes it even worse.

 

[msommer]

Everyone on this forum whines.  They whine about how Trump acts or whatever the topic of the day is.  Arguing what is right, wrong or inappropriate is all whining.   That is what politics is all about.  I am making points about how awful and disrespectful behavior on this forum is.  

Whining about it, really. You do you. It's in your nature.

 

[jon_mx]

Whining about it, really. You do you. It's in your nature.

I am pointing out terrible tactics which are not only used against me but all posters of differing opinions who come in here.   You call it what you wish.  

 

[D Baseball]

Did you ever see Diggstown, with Louis Gosset Jr.? I'm a sucker for a good "con" movie.

On the other hand, Woods himself has really gone off the deep end with the political stuff.

Yeah, I enjoyed that. Whatever happened to Louis G. Jr? Always liked his work. Great laugh. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Whining about it, really. You do you. It's in your nature.

You whine about Jon.  It's your nature.  Now let's all move on.

 

[jon_mx]

No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that using a "tactic of fascism" doesn't make something fascist. It has to be done by someone in a position of power.  What you're doing is akin to calling a man a lesbian because he performs oral sex on women, which is a "tactic" of lesbians. Your argument here is equally silly.  And you're doing to minimize actual fascist tactics by actually powerful people who are at the upper reaches of our government, which makes it even worse.

Except the Trump administration is not actual fascists.   Our constitution is safe and sound and we will have an election in two years and probably a new president.  Neither are true fascists.  Both act horribly and should be criticized. 

 

[jon_mx]

This forum would be 100 times better if there would be no calling other posters whiners or trolls or racists or snowflakes or whatever.   If people discussed ideas instead of constantly making accusations, it would be far far far more productive. 

 

[TobiasFunke]

Except the Trump administration is not actual fascists.   Our constitution is safe and sound and we will have an election in two years and probably a new president.  Neither are true fascists.  Both act horribly and should be criticized. 

I have called the Trump administration and many in the GOP who support it "aspiring fascists."  Clearly they want to rule as fascists do, but so far our laws and courts and civic norms have constrained them more often than not. I think that's a fair characterization. We'll see if things hold now that they're seeing election results they don't like, and subsequently will hopefully be subject to more extensive and effective checks on their fascist aspirations that they also won't like.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that using a "tactic of fascism" doesn't make something fascist. It has to be done by someone in a position of power.  What you're doing is akin to calling a man a lesbian because he performs oral sex on women, which is a "tactic" of lesbians. Your argument here is equally silly.  And you're doing to minimize actual fascist tactics by actually powerful people who are at the upper reaches of our government, which makes it even worse.

Props for at least making your false equivalences funny.  

 

[Gr00vus]

Using threats of violence to intimate opponents is not a tactic of fascists?

Not exclusively. Using violence to intimidate opponents is a ploy used by lots of undesirable cohorts, not just fascists. It's also not the sole component of the definition of fascism.

These people are an angry mob. It's not appropriate behavior, but I don't think you can jump straight from that to fascist.

 

[unckeyherb]

I guess it's a good thing nobody claimed that, then.

Here's what I said:

"Yesterday there was another mass shooting, killing 11. The second double-digit body count mass shooting in two weeks. The last one targeted Jews based on lies and fearmongering related to immigration- lies and fearmongering pushed by Tucker Carlson and his cohorts at Fox News, as it turns out."

Show me the lie.

Can you point to some quotes of Tuckers that are fear-mongering lies about Jews and immigration?  

 

[proteus126]

Great charachter actor. Loved him in Casino. 

Loved him in Salvador.  He nailed that role.

 

[unckeyherb]

Again...let us know when he has to move out.

What does this have to do with anything?  Are you suggesting that its all ok if he doesn't have to move out of his house?  Seems like a weird argument.

And again...let us know what specific fascist policy Carlson has espoused on his show.  Specific.

 

[zftcg]

Yeah, I enjoyed that. Whatever happened to Louis G. Jr? Always liked his work. Great laugh. 

I thought he had died, but apparently he's still kicking it at 82. And according to IMDB, he's still acting, too. Can't remember the last thing I saw him in.

These days, I can't hear his name without thinking of the great line Seth Meyers had on Obama at his famous White House Correspondents Dinner speech.

 

[sho nuff]

Everyone on this forum whines.  They whine about how Trump acts or whatever the topic of the day is.  Arguing what is right, wrong or inappropriate is all whining.   That is what politics is all about.  I am making points about how awful and disrespectful behavior on this forum is.  

Jon...we won’t agree. But if you want to talk about disrespectful behavior, look in the mirror every now and then. Have a nice day

 

[TobiasFunke]

Can you point to some quotes of Tuckers that are fear-mongering lies about Jews and immigration?  

Here's a Carlson opinion column wrongly claiming that the caravan and others like it are happening "because an entire political party is inviting it and encouraging it. They believe unchecked immigration will strengthen their hold on power." This is obviously a lie- Democrats don't want unchecked immigration, they're not encouraging the caravan or others like it, and they're also not the cause of it.  In addition the entire focus on the caravan over the last two weeks was transparent fear-mongering: it was a thousand miles away and traveling on foot, and yet Carlson and his Fox News buddies devoted hours to covering it.   And here's Carlson back in the day ranting about George Soros (the anti-Semitic underpinnings of the Soros attacks from the far right have already been discussed at length). 

That's just a quick google search of a term or two. I don't have the time to dig through every Carlson video or column.  Also I didn't just call out Carlson individually, I said "Carlson and his cohorts at Fox News."  I assume we can all agree that Fox News has been pushing irrational caravan fear-mongering and has occasionally blamed Soros for it?  We've all see the Lou Dobbs clip, yes?

 

[jon_mx]

Jon...we won’t agree. But if you want to talk about disrespectful behavior, look in the mirror every now and then. Have a nice day

Which is bs.  I can point to a hundred discussions and every single one of them went off track because multiple posters made the discussion personal.   That is unacceptable.  

 

[unckeyherb]

Here's a Carlson opinion column wrongly claiming that the caravan and others like it are happening "because an entire political party is inviting it and encouraging it. They believe unchecked immigration will strengthen their hold on power." This is obviously a lie- Democrats don't want unchecked immigration, they're not encouraging the caravan or others like it, and they're also not the cause of it.  In addition the entire focus on the caravan over the last two weeks was transparent fear-mongering: it was a thousand miles away and traveling on foot, and yet Carlson and his Fox News buddies devoted hours to covering it.   And here's Carlson back in the day ranting about George Soros (the anti-Semitic underpinnings of the Soros attacks from the far right have already been discussed at length). 

That's just a quick google search of a term or two. I don't have the time to dig through every Carlson video or column.  Also I didn't just call out Carlson individually, I said "Carlson and his cohorts at Fox News."  I assume we can all agree that Fox News has been pushing irrational caravan fear-mongering and has occasionally blamed Soros for it?  We've all see the Lou Dobbs clip, yes?

My question was in regards to Tucker Carlson being a fascist, not Fox news as a whole.  It was his house which was the one that was barraged. 

Regarding the bolded, this is not obviously a lie no matter how much you want it to be.  There are plenty of democrats that want more open borders.  That want amnesty for immigrants that here illegally.  Do you really not think that a political party that is pushing for amnesty and citizenship for people that have gotten into this country without going through the proper channels is encouraging more to do the same?  Was it only Carlson covering the caravan?  Because I remember CNN running 24/7 up to the minute status updates along the trail of the caravan and using this as a way to criticize Trump's desire for border stability. 

The Soros clip is questioning why Soros-backed endeavors with socialist intentions in other countries are being given additional funding from the US government.  How the hell do you get anti-semitic from that?  

 

[jon_mx]

Democrats bare far more responsibility for the carivans than Tucker does for the killing of Jews.  So if the first is a lie, what does that say about the second?  

 

[TobiasFunke]

My question was in regards to Tucker Carlson being a fascist, not Fox news as a whole.  It was his house which was the one that was barraged. 

Regarding the bolded, this is not obviously a lie no matter how much you want it to be.  There are plenty of democrats that want more open borders.  That want amnesty for immigrants that here illegally.  Do you really not think that a political party that is pushing for amnesty and citizenship for people that have gotten into this country without going through the proper channels is encouraging more to do the same?  Was it only Carlson covering the caravan?  Because I remember CNN running 24/7 up to the minute status updates along the trail of the caravan and using this as a way to criticize Trump's desire for border stability. 

The Soros clip is questioning why Soros-backed endeavors with socialist intentions in other countries are being given additional funding from the US government.  How the hell do you get anti-semitic from that?  

Your question didn't even mention Tucker Carlson being a fascist.  Probably because I never called him one.

The fact that you had to change Democrats wanting "unchecked immigration" (what Carlson actually said) to Democrats wanting more open borders and amnesty in order to argue that Carlson wasn't lying is a pretty clear indication that he was in fact lying.

Like I said, I don't want to get into the anti-Semitic underpinnings of Fox News/the right constantly using Soros and his money as a boogeyman. If you don't get it, you don't get it. Jews get it.

 

[E Street Brat]

I consider myself a Factist

You spelled fatass wrong. 

 

[Mookie]

Calling out those who promote and foster fascist ideals is perfectly acceptable and ought to be encouraged. 

Terrorizing and victimizing people in their homes is unacceptable.

I think I already answered the question posed by this silly thread. 

Labeling the Antifa thugs as fascists is intellectually lazy.  They aren't suppressing elections.  They aren't singling out ethnicities for scorn and scapegoating.  They aren't corrupting our government for their own personal wealth.  They aren't tearing down the mass media.  They aren't continually spouting a sexist message.  They aren't proudly declaring themselves nationalists. Those are ALL fascist ideals that Trump and his supporters have made their primary messages. 

Traits of Fascism

Carlson has pressed this message, often more loudly than Trump.  His record speaks for itself -  Saying that Trump, Carlson, Hannity, Sessions, and the rest haven't promoted these ideals is lying.  Are they card carrying fascists walking us towards nazism and another Holocaust?  Of course not, but many elements of their agenda include attributes of fascism that are really dangerous, especially with a well-armed populace that includes many white supremacists and violent crazies like the guy who just shot up the bar, the guy who shot up the synagogue, the guy sending pipe bombs, etc. etc..    

 

[McJose]

You spelled fatass wrong. 

:signalsflunkytotakeyourmicaway: