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Kareem Hunt and Left Eye and Andre Rison (1 Viewer)

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rockaction

rockaction

Footballguy
It's a little weird. Kareem Hunt's career might be over for the inexcusable kick of a woman. People lecture in stentorian tones on the nightly news; everybody is upset. People wonder whether this is a problem endemic to the NFL, etc.  Left Eye from TLC burns down a part of Andre Rison's house and people laughed. That's arson. Arson is considered one of the most serious crimes in the world and she got off scot free, IIRC, with a wink-wink and a nudge-nudge.  At the very least, she wasn't prosecuted to the full letter of the arson doctrine.  

How are we allowing double standards like this to persist? I'll hang up and listen.     

 
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rockaction said:
It's a little weird. Kareem Hunt's career might be over for the inexcusable kick of a woman. People lecture in stentorian tones on the nightly news; everybody is upset. People wonder whether this is a problem endemic to the NFL, etc.  Left Eye from TLC burns down a part of Andre Rison's house and people laughed. That's arson. Arson is considered one of the most serious crimes in the world and she got off scot free, IIRC, with a wink-wink and a nudge-nudge.  At the very least, she wasn't prosecuted to the full letter of the arson doctrine.  

How are we allowing double standards like this to persist? I'll hang up and listen.     
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Wait, so you’re comparing public opinion and private employment to criminal conviction?  You realize that the NFL can set (and has) it’s own standards for what it’s employees can/can’t do, that are different from the criminal justice system, right?  You do realize that people are allowed to feel/think what they want, regardless of what the criminal justice system does, right?  I mean, public opinion is that OJ Simpson murdered 2 people, even though the criminal justice system found him not guilty.  And his career was over, regardless of what the courts said.

Finally, with all that being said, Lopes was found guilty & sentenced to 5 years of probation.  So, I’m not sure why you’re trying to fabricate some great social injustice about double standards.  She did something wrong, and was punished.  He did something wrong, and is being punished. 

 
What needs to be done is cool  this man vs woman thing  and start dealing with the individuals involved. There are women out there today who can kick a mans butt, this can't be ignored.  We have to look at who is involved.

When a woman keeps at a guy, won't leave the guy alone after told to back off, more or less asking for it, he's suppose to run, curl into a ball?

I have three older sisters,  their fun game was taking turns beating me up, then as time went on,  ha~~~~  It ended up me vs all three and them crying to mom.

That 120 pounder who struggles opening up a jar of pickles is one thing, that is a lot different than that girl training to get a job with the UFC, and needs to treated as such.

 
Bayhawks said:
Wait, so you’re comparing public opinion and private employment to criminal conviction?  You realize that the NFL can set (and has) it’s own standards for what it’s employees can/can’t do, that are different from the criminal justice system, right?  You do realize that people are allowed to feel/think what they want, regardless of what the criminal justice system does, right?  I mean, public opinion is that OJ Simpson murdered 2 people, even though the criminal justice system found him not guilty.  And his career was over, regardless of what the courts said.

Finally, with all that being said, Lopes was found guilty & sentenced to 5 years of probation.  So, I’m not sure why you’re trying to fabricate some great social injustice about double standards.  She did something wrong, and was punished.  He did something wrong, and is being punished. 
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Yeah, there's a bit of apples to oranges to this but not only are the pecuniary ramifications different, the coverage of it was different. Lopes was seen as sort of an aggrieved bad ### while Kareem Hunt is being portrayed as a troglodyte. 

I'm going to be very up front about this. I think the #metoo movement sucks, and that women have been getting away with domestic violence for far too long. She got five years probation for arson? I read New York's statute and passed the bar in New York so I'll admit it's weird. But she burned his house down by starting a fire and only got five years probation? What the hell is that?  She kept her career and her dollars and her pop culture reverence. 

She could have killed a whole lot of people by doing that. Fires spread. That's why states have strict arson laws.  

The NFL and Hunt is getting a bum deal in this case because of TMZ. I'm no defender of "THE SHIELD," but this sucks.  

 
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ZenoRazon said:
What needs to be done is cool  this man vs woman thing  and start dealing with the individuals involved. There are women out there today who can kick a mans butt, this can't be ignored.  We have to look at who is involved.

When a woman keeps at a guy, won't leave the guy alone after told to back off, more or less asking for it, he's suppose to run, curl into a ball?

I have three older sisters,  their fun game was taking turns beating me up, then as time went on,  ha~~~~  It ended up me vs all three and them crying to mom.

That 120 pounder who struggles opening up a jar of pickles is one thing, that is a lot different than that girl training to get a job with the UFC, and needs to treated as such.
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I agree with this. It's a whole different ballgame. I've been popped by a woman before and saw stars. But I'd never hit Sally from Cornell if she slapped me. It's gotta even up at some point and this whole thing where you can't defend yourself against some pretty aggressive types has to end, IMHO.  

 
rockaction said:
It's a little weird. Kareem Hunt's career might be over for the inexcusable kick of a woman. People lecture in stentorian tones on the nightly news; everybody is upset. People wonder whether this is a problem endemic to the NFL, etc.  Left Eye from TLC burns down a part of Andre Rison's house and people laughed. That's arson. Arson is considered one of the most serious crimes in the world and she got off scot free, IIRC, with a wink-wink and a nudge-nudge.  At the very least, she wasn't prosecuted to the full letter of the arson doctrine.  

How are we allowing double standards like this to persist? I'll hang up and listen.     
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Wait......Left Eye was a man?  And she played in the NFL?  Recently?  😳

Not really seeing the outrage here.

 
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Never hit a woman is a cultural axiom. What is disturbing to me is this whole If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best stereotype that has also taken root. In a perfect world people should not hit other people (or burn their houses down) and people who do those things should be punished equally but culturally we just aren't there.

 
habsfan said:
Never hit a woman is a cultural axiom. What is disturbing to me is this whole If you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best stereotype that has also taken root. In a perfect world people should not hit other people (or burn their houses down) and people who do those things should be punished equally but culturally we just aren't there.
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I hope I never live in a society where 'we're there' if you're referring to a man striking a woman.  If anyone saw Kareem Hunt shove that woman and then kick her on the ground and thought she had it coming, then that person is undoubtedly a woman abuser also. Now add to the fact that the man is also a world class athlete...   Men who cry about unfairness because they can't punch women are the ultimate pansies in my book. 

 
NFL just needs to just figure out a suspension and hand it out.  They drag their feet with piss-poor investigations and games pass already. 

 
Kind of random that you would pick a story about arson from 25 years ago to compare to an assault case from two months ago. I really don't understand what one has to do with the other. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and tire irons. 

You seem to have a bug up your butt about #MeToo and are trying to find ways to gin up outrage, no matter how nonsensical the comparisons. You're free to complain all you want about it in the political forum, but none of this has anything to do with football.

 
So if the criminal justice system was wrong with Left Eye way back when it has to be wrong from there on out to what, appease your line of reasoning?

Two wrongs will eventually get it right?

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Well, Andre Rison played for the falcs. ... So, there's that.
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I think you've identified the real injustice. Why is it that when a woman commits a crime against a player in the NFC, no one cares? But when an AFC player does something wrong, everyone's up in arms? Biased!

 
rockaction said:
Yeah, there's a bit of apples to oranges to this but not only are the pecuniary ramifications different, the coverage of it was different. Lopes was seen as sort of an aggrieved bad ### while Kareem Hunt is being portrayed as a troglodyte. 

I'm going to be very up front about this. I think the #metoo movement sucks, and that women have been getting away with domestic violence for far too long. She got five years probation for arson? I read New York's statute and passed the bar in New York so I'll admit it's weird. But she burned his house down by starting a fire and only got five years probation? What the hell is that?  She kept her career and her dollars and her pop culture reverence. 

She could have killed a whole lot of people by doing that. Fires spread. That's why states have strict arson laws.  

The NFL and Hunt is getting a bum deal in this case because of TMZ. I'm no defender of "THE SHIELD," but this sucks.  
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1-I think you are selectively remembering the coverages.  Recency bias applies here.  When the Lopes issue was current, there was A LOT of coverage of that.  When the video broke, there was a lot of coverage.  Now a few weeks later, it's not discussed anywhere.  Do a google search for "Kareem Hunt," and you find a couple of hits in the last day or so about the bears not ruling out a pursuit of him, then there's nothing else after the early December video/release.

2-Social media today gives a voice to every individual who wants one.  If social media existed (the way it does today) when Lopes burned down Rison's house, it would have been all over social media, just as the Hunt story was.

You're trying to turn what has/is happening to Hunt into some kind of "man-bashing" thing, but you don't have any basis, at least not with the example  you're using.

 
If I'm ever in a situation where a woman slaps me and I feel the need to strike her I really need to reflect on the decisions I made to get me there.

 
JuniorNB said:
I hope I never live in a society where 'we're there' if you're referring to a man striking a woman.  If anyone saw Kareem Hunt shove that woman and then kick her on the ground and thought she had it coming, then that person is undoubtedly a woman abuser also. Now add to the fact that the man is also a world class athlete...   Men who cry about unfairness because they can't punch women are the ultimate pansies in my book. 
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My first thought was why is this happening?  I tend to want to gather facts before making any judgements at all.  That does not make me a woman abuser.

 
Why is it that when Lizzie Borden murders her parents, she gets acquitted and everyone jokes about how "she took an axe and gave her mother forty whacks", but when Aziz Ansari is rude to a woman on a date he gets totally shunned? What a bunch of Hippocrates!

 
I think the loudest voices in opposition to this forget how we've treated domestic abuse (or arson) in relation to cases regarding the NFL is all I'm saying. It's not me trying to "gin up" outrage, it's the media. The NFL and Hunt get raw deals. In the words of William F. Buckley, cancel my ####### subscription if that's how you're going to be.  

 
rockaction said:
I think the loudest voices in opposition to this forget how we've treated domestic abuse (or arson) in relation to cases regarding the NFL is all I'm saying. It's not me trying to "gin up" outrage, it's the media. The NFL and Hunt get raw deals. In the words of William F. Buckley, cancel my ####### subscription if that's how you're going to be.  
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If you're reaching back 25 years to find an example, that's pretty much the definition of ginning up outrage.

 
Gally said:
My first thought was why is this happening?  I tend to want to gather facts before making any judgements at all.  That does not make me a woman abuser.
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Lol.  So you can think of circumstances that it was acceptable for Hunt to shove and kick the 19 year old girl?  Tells me a lot about your character.

 
zftcg said:
If you're reaching back 25 years to find an example, that's pretty much the definition of ginning up outrage.
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If you're defending arson and how the media and coverage and Hollywood has behaved about these incidents, that's pretty much the definition of double standards.  

 
JuniorNB said:
I hope I never live in a society where 'we're there' if you're referring to a man striking a woman.  If anyone saw Kareem Hunt shove that woman and then kick her on the ground and thought she had it coming, then that person is undoubtedly a woman abuser also. Now add to the fact that the man is also a world class athlete...   Men who cry about unfairness because they can't punch women are the ultimate pansies in my book. 
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Try kick at her, ok?

While I agree pretty hard to consone a man punching a woman that wasn;t what happened.  A sholve to get here away from him and a kick with nothing on it. hmmmm?  And no I;m not and never could be a woman abuser but also realistic about how things really are.

 
ZenoRazon said:
Try kick at her, ok?

While I agree pretty hard to consone a man punching a woman that wasn;t what happened.  A sholve to get here away from him and a kick with nothing on it. hmmmm?  And no I;m not and never could be a woman abuser but also realistic about how things really are.
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Get her away.  People were separtaing them.  He could have just gone back to his room and called security.  He went out of his way to assault another individual.  

 
rockaction said:
If you're defending arson and how the media and coverage and Hollywood has behaved about these incidents, that's pretty much the definition of double standards.  
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You got me. I'm secretly pro-arson. BURN IT ALL DOWN!!!!  :hot:   :hot: :hot:   :hot:  

 
All I know is Left Eye gets hagiographies everywhere she goes, Hunt is a pariah. 

One kicked a woman that called him something and was physically threatening, the other is an arsonist. 

Think about that.  

 
Lots of people are all about forgiveness of arson but bah gawd we got TMZ video of the Kareem Hunt incident. 

Never again for football for him.  Left Eye, however, lionized in television, movies, etc.  

 
rockaction said:
All I know is Left Eye gets hagiographies everywhere she goes, Hunt is a pariah. 

One kicked a woman that called him something and was physically threatening, the other is an arsonist. 

Think about that.  
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Given that she's been dead for 16 years, Lopes doesn't go much of anywhere these days. But I'm amused that you've been sitting here nursing this grudge against her for a quarter century based on your subjective interpretation of her media coverage, and it was the treatment of Hunt that finally brought it all to the surface.

Anyway, I should have stuck to my original position that this entire thread is a waste of time that belongs in the Political Forum (if, indeed, it belongs anywhere), so I'm bowing out. Have fun at your next men's rights/incel rally.

 
rockaction said:
All I know is Left Eye gets hagiographies everywhere she goes, Hunt is a pariah. 

One kicked a woman that called him something and was physically threatening, the other is an arsonist. 

Think about that.  
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And all I know is that her issue was almost 25 years ago.  His was less than 1 (and only came to light about a month ago).  If you go back to that time, you'd probably see that there was a lot different take on her than there is now.

Or, better yet, wait 25 years, then revisit the way people perceive Hunt 25 years from now.  It probably won't be much different than the way people perceive Lopes today.  Especially, if he doesn't have any more incidents, and resumes his career (as she did after her case was resolved).

 
rockaction said:
Lots of people are all about forgiveness of arson but bah gawd we got TMZ video of the Kareem Hunt incident. 

Never again for football for him.  Left Eye, however, lionized in television, movies, etc.  
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Lots of people (Okay, maybe just you) are deliberately ignoring the fact the when this happened, Lopes faced similar types of reactions as Hunt did (when you factor in the differences in social media & news reporting between the 2 time periods).

 
Short Corner said:
Get her away.  People were separtaing them.  He could have just gone back to his room and called security.  He went out of his way to assault another individual.  
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Unless we were there we don't know the story, all that was said. Did they have a history? 

Only saw the video once, other than the kick didn't pay that much attention, don't like stuff like that.

 
zftcg said:
Given that she's been dead for 16 years, Lopes doesn't go much of anywhere these days. But I'm amused that you've been sitting here nursing this grudge against her for a quarter century based on your subjective interpretation of her media coverage, and it was the treatment of Hunt that finally brought it all to the surface.

Anyway, I should have stuck to my original position that this entire thread is a waste of time that belongs in the Political Forum (if, indeed, it belongs anywhere), so I'm bowing out. Have fun at your next men's rights/incel rally.
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I'm not an MRA guy at all. This just seems like a pretty egregious double standard in media coverage. And I haven't been nursing a grudge against her. It's similar to O.J. Two people who are obviously guilty of very, very serious crimes got over on the criminal justice system and Lopes gets off easy in the court of public opinion. There's just no doubting it. You can reconcile it anyway you want, it is what it is.  

 
Let's put it this way. You'd never have a major motion picture making O.J. jokes. Norm McDonald got fired for O.J. jokes. Yet TLC jokes (The Other Guys) are just fine and people still revere them. This belongs in football talk because it's about Kareem Hunt's career. He's a talented back who has issues and nobody to play for now because of a TMZ video. Left Eye had plenty of chances after arson. 

Defend that.  

 
Bayhawks said:
Lots of people (Okay, maybe just you) are deliberately ignoring the fact the when this happened, Lopes faced similar types of reactions as Hunt did (when you factor in the differences in social media & news reporting between the 2 time periods).
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You're sort of proving my point. Why should media coverage and faux outrage be driving Hunt's career?

Let's play ceteris paribus. What do you think happens given the current sociopolitical climate of Lopes's legacy?  

 
ZenoRazon said:
Unless we were there we don't know the story, all that was said. Did they have a history? 

Only saw the video once, other than the kick didn't pay that much attention, don't like stuff like that.
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Keep defending 225 pound world class athletes who push and kick women. I think they are totally misunderstood.  :doh:

 
What if Rhonda Rousey was being hassled by a bunch of reporters, they have her surrounded and won't back off after being told....back off....so she shoves one knocking him down, he(6 foot 180) says something so she kicks at him, a weak kick.

Now what?

 
JuniorNB said:
Keep defending 225 pound world class athletes who push and kick women. I think they are totally misunderstood.  :doh:
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Where do we get.....women.....at?   Try a punk ### girl refusing to leave the guy alone and he got pissed and did something stupid like we all have.....ok?

That kick was nothing, in a word....feeble.

 
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ZenoRazon said:
Where do we get.....women.....at?   Try a punk ### girl refusing to leave the guy alone and he got pissed and did something stupid like we all have.....ok?
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Speak for yourself, although this does shed some light as to why you condone violence against women.

 
ZenoRazon said:
Where do we get.....women.....at?   Try a punk ### girl refusing to leave the guy alone and he got pissed and did something stupid like we all have.....ok?

That kick was nothing, in a word....feeble.
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Every time you post, you come off as more and more of a scumbag.   You made your point.  You have no problem with guys shoving and kicking women.  As for 'leaving the guy alone'. he came out of his hotel room to engage her. A simple phone call to the front desk and the entire episode is over without him even having to confront her.   But I'm glad to know that you think kicking a girl is appropriate depending on the force of the kick. You sound really tough.  

 
JuniorNB said:
I must have missed where I defended an arsonist.  Care to point it out?
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I must have missed wherever anybody defended Hunt and his deplorable action. My point is that one career is lionized, the other hangs in the balance or is shot. One for a much more minor crime than the other.  

 
Short Corner said:
Speak for yourself, although this does shed some light as to why you condone violence against women.
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Are you paying any attention at all slugger?

Any man messing with a woman with me around has a big problem, ok ya with me?  Any man who hits a wman needs his ### kicked, ok?

Work with me here amigo.

There are situations where she is just as big and strong as he is,  and she is the one being aggressive, that trumps......violence against women.  Yes it does happen. 

Hell no a man doesn't beat up on women, you got that?

BUT....we do have situations, ok?

 
rockaction said:
I must have missed wherever anybody defended Hunt and his deplorable action. My point is that one career is lionized, the other hangs in the balance or is shot. One for a much more minor crime than the other.  
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Check RenoRazon's posts. Every one of them is defending Hunt and acting like it's no big deal because he didn't feel the shove or kick was all that hard.

 
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