Sam Quentin
Footballguy
What a striking contrast from safety conditions at the Astrodome.
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Katrina (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tipsy mcstagger
- Start date
Statorama
Footballguy
Wingnut
Footballguy
some new pics at http://www.nola-intel.org/pictures3/index2.html
and http://www.nola-intel.org/pictures2/
and http://www.nola-intel.org/pictures2/
It has been determined that those buses were operational before the hurricane, correct?
Statorama
Footballguy
For those interested in constructing timelines, this official declaration of emergency from the Governor of Louisiana was submitted on August 26. I, like several others, was led to believe that Blanco was negligent in those duties.From the Washington Post story link:
Of course, when there's a misperception on a national news story, Newsweek jumps right in with both feet...
She also sent this letter to the President on August 28th, requesting assistance under the Stafford Act.
There's also the sticky subject of the Federal Government's deployment of assistence. A National Response Plan was signed into effect in December of 2004 for national catastrophies, which states:
This press release from the White House declared a state of emergency in LA, and authorized FEMA "to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency" on August 27th.So while the locals didn't do the best job, this one isn't entirely their fault either.
Statorama
Footballguy
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Do you know what kind of facility that is?The only reason I ask is that there is a bus company (might be Ward, but I'm not sure at all) in Conway, AR just off I-40. If that city flooded, it would look from the air like their mayor let hundreds (maybe thousands) of buses waste away while in reality the vast majority of them would be empty shells.
Statorama
Footballguy
Right now my link to it is down (bandwidth issues). The buses were allegedly at something called the New Orleans school bus depot.Edit to add: The story is that there were buses that the mayor could have commandeered for evacuation efforts that he just didn't. Once the flood came, they were useless.
another blog source:link
This memo from the Governors office authorizes the use of school buses for evacuation. Too bad it was submitted on September 1st.It also turned up on this page which also asks about the (lack of use of) 364 public transportation buses available to the mayor.
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dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Not to criticize any of the donations, but why did someone go with X amount of dollars plus 69 cents?Holy #### that is unbelievable!The FBG Katarina Relief Fund is up to $3,499.69 (that's $6,999.38 with Joe B's match)
Statorama
Footballguy
You're asking that about the posters from this board?Not to criticize any of the donations, but why did someone go with X amount of dollars plus 69 cents?Holy #### that is unbelievable!The FBG Katarina Relief Fund is up to $3,499.69 (that's $6,999.38 with Joe B's match)
Sounds like a screw up.
Because that's what dentists do.Not to criticize any of the donations, but why did someone go with X amount of dollars plus 69 cents?Holy #### that is unbelievable!The FBG Katarina Relief Fund is up to $3,499.69 (that's $6,999.38 with Joe B's match)
Billy Bats
Footballguy
This #### is an absolute joke. Just goes to show that some beings will be animals no matter what the situation. They aren't human beings, shouldn't be called that and they should not be treated as such. If you are dumb, brazen, bold and ignorant enough to start your own army in an American city that's been destroyed, then you should and will be considered a terrosist and a threat to society. If anyone is brandishing a gun in this situation, other than military or persons honestly trying to protect themselves/belongings from this scum of the earth, then they should be shot on site. It will do us all a favor, to those who are just honestly trying to survive, and especially those who are trying to help them.And don't anyone dare tell me those dirtbags shooting at rescue helicopters and resuce boats full of doctors are "trying to survive", they're animals and don't belong living among civilized people.
Statorama
Footballguy
While searching for "bus stories" in Louisiana, I happened upon this story about an 18 year old who commandeered one of the unused buses and used it to rescue about 100 people.
I'm 75% sure that this had been posted before, but it seemed to fit in with the "bus chat".
Statorama
Footballguy
Video from Jefferson Parish president Aaron Broussard...pretty emotional stuff.
http://www.overspun.com/video/MTP.AaronBroussardX.wmv
http://www.overspun.com/video/MTP.AaronBroussardX.wmv
The_Hunchback
Footballguy
Who really cares, seriously.Not to criticize any of the donations, but why did someone go with X amount of dollars plus 69 cents?Holy #### that is unbelievable!The FBG Katarina Relief Fund is up to $3,499.69 (that's $6,999.38 with Joe B's match)
CaptainHucklebuck
Ancient Chinese Secret
Probably gave everything that was in their paypal account.Not to criticize any of the donations, but why did someone go with X amount of dollars plus 69 cents?Holy #### that is unbelievable!The FBG Katarina Relief Fund is up to $3,499.69 (that's $6,999.38 with Joe B's match)
Keerock
Footballguy
Probably gave everything that was in their paypal account.Not to criticize any of the donations, but why did someone go with X amount of dollars plus 69 cents?Holy #### that is unbelievable!The FBG Katarina Relief Fund is up to $3,499.69 (that's $6,999.38 with Joe B's match)
Tbone
Shrinkage
Interesting to see the help offerings pouring in from around the world. Some of the more interesting ones are from Fidel Castro (offered to fly 1,100 doctors to Houston, Texas, with 26 tons of medicine), and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez who would probably like to see the United States as a giant crater.
But the one that sticks out like a sore thumb is Qatar.
Link
But the one that sticks out like a sore thumb is Qatar.
Link
U.S. receives aid offers from around the world
(CNN) -- The U.S. government has received offers of aid from dozens of nations across the globe in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the State Department said.
Neither the White House nor the State Department has said whether these offers have been accepted.
However, Reuters reported Sunday that the United States has asked for assistance from the European Union and NATO.
The EU Executive Commission said the United States has asked for first aid kits, blankets, water trucks and 500,000 prepared meals, Reuters reported.
NATO said the United States had asked it for food supplies, Reuters reported. "NATO stands ready to continue to support the United States as it recovers from this natural disaster," the alliance reportedly said in a statement.
Among those offering assistance are India, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Indonesia, the four countries hardest-hit by the December 26 tsunami.
Other international organizations also offered help, ranging from medical teams to tents to cash donations. They include the Organization of American States, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees and World Health Organization.
The United Nations has offered to help coordinate international relief.
Following is a list of some of countries offering aid:
Africa
Nigeria has pledged $1 million to hurricane disaster relief, government officials told CNN. "Nigeria will be happy to pledge $1 million to the hurricane disaster fund in the spirit of brotherhood," Finance Minister Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala said.
Asia
China offered $5 million in aid for victims of Hurricane Katrina. If needed, the Chinese government also is prepared to send rescue workers, including medical experts, officials said.
Japan has offered to provide $200,000 to the American Red Cross, the Japanese Foreign Ministry said. Japan also will provide up to $300,000 in emergency supplies such as tents, blankets and power generators if it receives requests, the ministry said.
India is making a $5 million donation to the American Red Cross, Ronen Sen, Indian ambassador to the United States, said Saturday. In addition, Sen said India was willing to donate essential medicines to the relief effort.
The Singapore armed forces, responding to requests by the Texas Army National Guard, has sent three Chinook helicopters to Fort Polk, Louisiana, to help in relief efforts.
South Korea awaits a U.S. response after pledging aid, a government official said.
Afghanistan pledged $100,000 to help provide aid to the hurricane victims, according to a statement issued by the U.S. Embassy in Kabul.
Sri Lanka will donate $25,000 to the American Red Cross.
Taiwan has pledged more than $3 million to the relief effort.
Americas
Canada has offered to help in any way it can, and its navy is preparing a ship full of emergency disaster relief supplies to be sent when a request comes.
Cuban President Fidel Castro offered to fly 1,100 doctors to Houston, Texas, with 26 tons of medicine to treat disaster victims.
Mexico has offered $1 million and is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas. The Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.
Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.
Australia
Australia is giving $10 million, most of it to the American Red Cross, according to the Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer.
Europe
France has offered mobile help from rescue teams in the French Antilles in the Caribbean, including a civil defense detachment of 35 people, tents, camp beds, generators, motor pumps, water treatment units and emergency kits, two CASA cargo aircraft, a ship (Batral Francis Garnier) and the frigate Ventose with its Panther helicopter, and a hurricane disaster unit. France also has offered assistance from the French mainland, including several aircraft. In addition, the NGO Telecoms Sans Frontieres, which specializes in restoring phone lines and Internet service in disasters, is ready to send a team of experts and equipment. Veolia Environment, which has facilities in Louisiana, has offered to make its local water management resources available.
Germany has offered a range of assistance, including medical and transportation services, water treatment capabilities and aid in searching for victims and supplies. Germany also has said it is ready and willing to "dip into its own emergency oil reserves" to release some 2 million barrels a day for 30 days.
Italy has offered to send aid and evacuation specialists immediately, Italy's civil protection unit said. Authorities have prepared two military transport planes to fly amphibious vessels, pumps, generators, tents and personnel to New Orleans, Louisiana, and other areas. They were awaiting word from U.S. officials, the unit said.
The Netherlands will provide teams for inspecting dikes and for identifying victims if there is a formal request from the United States. It also will send a frigate from Curacao in the Netherlands Antilles to New Orleans shortly to provide emergency assistance, the Dutch government said.
Russia has offered to help with rescue efforts but is awaiting a reply from Washington.
Spain expects to receive a formal request to release gasoline stocks to the United States and is prepared to grant it, an Industry Ministry spokesman said.
Sweden's Rescue Authority said it was on standby to supply water purifying equipment, health care supplies and emergency shelters if needed.
British Prime Minister Tony Blair has said his country stands ready to help the United States in whatever way it can.
Middle East
Qatar has offered the United States $100 million to assist in the humanitarian crisis triggered by Hurricane Katrina.
Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, will donate $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for hurricane victims.
Iran has offered to send humanitarian aid to hurricane victims, Reuters reported. "We are prepared to send our contributions to the people through the Red Crescent," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid Reza Asefi told Reuters.
Mrs. BSR
Footballguy
We watched that news all day yesterday. It's still so amazing.We had a big fire up here and were worried about being evacuated as we were all down in Bakersfield for our kids' football game. Power went out and then the phones.We went to BSR's mom's house after the game since we couldn't go home (freeway closed), although BSR went to do a FF draft. We watched the hurricane coverage on the news the rest of the day, stayed at his mom's house and then watched the news again on Sunday.It's amazing how much more we knew about it then everyone else at their house only because of the info from this board.Tipsy, Tiger Fan, jplvr and the rest of you, our thoughts and prayers are still with you. I hope that your lives will get some sort of normalcy soon and that you and your family stay safe.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Hard to imagine that going back for a few of your own possessions could possibly result in a shootout. Very sad.
shining path
:prettyplease:
I appreciate all the countries that donated, but Japan, one of the ten largest economies in the world and the past recipient of mammoth amounts of US aid, donating $500k?
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cosjobs
Footballguy
Here's a letter from the CEO of the Tulane Hospital. IT is very interesting and inspiring:I thought it might be easier to compose an email to all of you at oncethat tells some of the story of the past few days. First and foremost I felt your prayers and heard your concerns that were registered with Donna and others and they comforted me and kept me calm which was essential in this time.In Dylan's song, A Hard Rains A-Gonna Fall, the singer is asked the questions of where have you been, what did you see, what did you hear,who did you meet, and what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son to which heanswers with a collage of images of his experience that attempts to answer each question. In this crisis the images were moving so fast that I think it'll take awhile to put it together but here's an attempt to do so.This storm as of noon Friday the 25th didn't seem like it would be muchof an event, but by 5pm things began to look different. We met as a group on Saturday to begin our routine preparations for a hurricane. Donna left for her brother's home and I went home to put things together there. I started to think what do I absolutely not want to lose in case the house would be swept away and the answer only revealed the photos of the family thru the years so that and few clothes was all I took.The Storm: God's Natural World has an awesome power. From the small observation windows from our tallest floors, we observed awnings beingblown off, a blinding rain and a general sense if God's ever angry we're going to lose big. Our first inspections revealed little damage. A few broken windows and some roof damage but the building held up well. In fact, if you were in the inner core of the facility you only vaguely heard it. We even walked around late in the afternoon since there was only limitedflooding no worse than a heavy thunderstorm. Overconfident, we even stated we had absorbed the best punch that nature could throw and we seemed intact.At 1:30 am on Tuesday morning began the biggest crisis and challenge ofmy life and in the life of Tulane and no doubt New Orleans. I was awakened by my COO who told me the water in the boiler room was rising a foot an hour since midnight and if it continued at that rate at best we had only another two to three hours before we would lose all power since we already were on emergency power since early Monday morning. We had only 7 ventilator patients whose lives would be in jeopardy, and we had to move fast to get them out. We had no boat and no helicopter pad. Houston we have a problem. I called Acadian Ambulance (who I know well) but had no business connection to our hospital and asked their immediate help. We have a parking deck connected to the hospital that we had evaluated as sturdy enough to support helicopter flight, but it had four light poles in the middle. I want to tell you what happened in the next four hours wasnothing short of a miracle. Our maintenance group got the light poles down;Acadian agreed to pick our patients up, we made arrangements with our other HCA hospitals to take them. Our staff and physicians got their patientsready, and most importantly, the water rise began to slow to an inch/hr and a little after the sun came up copters were on the roof and patients beganto be transported.Early on Tuesday morning we met with our key managers who were at the hospital. We prayed for support and comfort and guidance for what weknew was going to be a difficult period. We talked about what we knew, andwhat we didn't know which was considerable because we had no contact fromFEMA or the Mayor's office. We had no idea why the water was rising and fromwhat limited facts we had, no one did. We had to assume that it would keep rising and we would lose power and then we would have no power at all. Thus, no light, no ac, suction, oxygen, elevators, phones ie. everythingthat is precious to good care. We had to get out so we hatched a planand I tried to stay out of the way and let our physicians and nurses triage patients; others determined what vital supplies we needed replenishing;HCA was working frantically to coordinate a transportation effort to pick uppatients and eventually, our staff. How many people? Good question.At least 1200 which included a total of 160 patients, employees andphysicians and their families and 76 dogs and cats that I didn't know about at the time.Tuesday: The looting began. We witnessed people, dozens of them,wading in front of the hospital with bag after bag of stuff from different storesin the vicinity. Bandits took over two hotels adjacent to us and forcedout many of our employees families who had been housed there forcing themback to the hospital creating further complications. That night our peopleon the roof evacuating patients heard gunshots in the air but theycontinued their work. The lawlessness and insurrection certainly was a distractionbut our Tulane Police were great, and they are very capable. Late in the daywe ran out of fuel so our generators shut down and the building began toget hot. The last of the ventilator patients had to go up six stories byway of pickup trucks since the elevators shut down and our ambulance was tootall to squeeze to the top. During the day, I had a conversation with a patient's father who told me that the parking deck pad would hold big helicopters. How did he know? Because he was a Blackhawk pilot. Ok.Then there appeared out of nowhere this guy, John Holland, who was sent in byHCA to be our Flight Coordinator - whatever that is. "The man" had arrivedwho would communicate with the birds in the air and boy is that important because our patients had begun to fly away.Wednesday: If you would like to know if we slept. Here's a little experiment. Try heating the bedroom up to about 90-95 degrees. First, you're hot and then you sweat and get cold and then the cycle repeats. Daybreak and I tell you patients are being moved into a queue to move.I saw our staff, residents, and faculty move sick patients with a graceand dignity that was most impressive. This was our third day and the stresson our people began to show. Everyone was asking when, where, & how werewe going to get out. The city sewer system was obviously backing up and spilling out and creating an acrid smell that over the next few daysmade it almost impossible to breath. With no water pressure you can't bathe.But here's a general observation: if everyone smells the same you reallydon't notice it, you just feel unclean. On this day, the La. Wildlife and Fisheries Department showed up to help us move some patients that we hadinherited from the Superdome on Sunday night. Yes, over 60 extramedically needy people with chronic conditions. So by boat we sent them and theirlove ones away. I met a woman whose most valuable possession was herpillow and her radio that I personally promised her to protect. It's in myoffice now.The Big Birds began to fly. Blackhawk's down. Instead of one or two patients they could move up to four with some additional staff.Beautiful sight but there was more to come. By the end of the day we had movedall but about twenty patients including two who weighed more than 400 lbsand one artificial heart assist-device patient, which was the challenge ofthe week since the device itself weighted more than 500 lbs. So imaginehauling this weight three to four floors down a dark stairwell at 90 plusdegrees. It was a young man's job and it was done. Let me tell you that the coordination from the patient's room to the staging area to the helipadinto the helicopter was a work of art composed by many painters. It trulywas a thing of beauty and it touched everyone who was there.By the end of day, HCA had constructed an extraction plan for theremaining staff. Helicopter to the airport, buses to pick up and take toLafayette. Sounds good but there were lots of needs and who knows what thegovernment may decide to do.Thursday: Line up and get ready. Have a little breakfast. Webasically were living on Strawberry poptarts, honey oat bars and for dinner alittle protein, tuna fish. Fortunately, I like all of them but I'm sure I lostten lbs. or so. Anyway, the line was formed and I personally counted. 700 hundred people. Our staff, physicians, their children and spouses, andjust to top it off 76 dogs and cats. Holy God. How are we going to dealwith that? So we relegated them immediately to second-class citizenship to another line and pray we don't have to put the pets to sleep if no onewill haul them.At first there were just a few small copters and we had some patients tomove and it was slow. Moving through the line people were calm with afew exceptions but overall they managed their plight well. Then a situationdeveloped. A frantic Medical Director of Critical Care showed up byboat from Charity. Major problem. Charity was in a meltdown. He had 21 critical care patients many being hand ventilated for two days and he couldn't get any help from the state. You may have heard this story reported by CNN. Their version and ours differs but raise your hand ifyou think the media gets it right all the time. Can you help me he asked?This was a tough question but it had only one answer. We would give themaccess to the small aircraft, which wasn't going to help us move our staffanyway. So that process began much to the chagrin of our non-professional staffand family. They just didn't understand it. Our nurses and doctors did butit increased the crowd's intensity. Midday and it was moving slow. Itdidn't look good. Then from 3 to 5 things happened.A Chinook helicopter is big. Two rotors and it carries about 50-60people. It moves with a slow deliberate confidence that is hard to describe.But one showed up. We had questioned about could it land so we asked "theman, John" and he said yes but nothing else could be on the pad when it diddue to the turbulence. I want to tell you as it approached cheers broke outfrom below and people thought they had a chance. So for a few hours wemade progress and then it stopped. No more big birds, big problem. What happened? Don't know. I called my daughter Megan where Donna wasstaying and she seemed elated. "You're back". "What?" I asked. She tells meGov. Blanco had just announced that Tulane had totally been evacuated.According to my account she was about 400 people short in her analysis. But wenow had a new problem. They think we're not here. Better let someone know.I called the La. Nat'l Guard. Guess who answered, Brad Smith, thepatient's father I spoke of earlier. He had gotten a ride back with some of the Wildlife boys and was now flying sorties into New Orleans. He quicklygot a hold of the Office Of Emergency Preparedness and let them know we still needed help. So maybe Friday we'd get out. People were remarkably calmwhen we told them they'd be there another day. The just sat down andbegan to prepare to go to bed.We left the hospital and remained in the parking deck. One it wascooler, two there would be less confusion in the morning and three it was safer since there was less territory for our Tulane Police to patrol. I knowthe media has played up the anarchy, and no doubt there was some concern,but I always thought we were safe.So imagine trying to fall asleep on your concrete driveway without a pador pillow. It's kind of tough. Then throw in an unexpected helicopterlanding at 1 am. The wind is a little dicey. The bird dropped off 50% of the Marines in New Orleans. One guy who need to go to Charity so we had totake him over. Next event for the evening: at 4 am we were treated to amassive explosion at a warehouse on the river several miles away. I happened tobe looking directly at it at the time. It must have reached a 1000 ft inthe air. Then by the end of the evening we began actually to get cold. Butit finally ended.Friday: The end is pretty anti-climatic. At 8 o'clock unexpectedChinooks began showing up taking 60 people at a time. I wonder if our pilotfriend in the Guard had anything to do we it but I haven't asked him yet. Soin a matter of 2 1/2 hrs. everyone was gone but our Police and the lastremnants of management. So after attempts to arrange a coordination with Charityto use the helipad, we left for home sweet home.Obviously, this is only phase one of a complicated recovery for NewOrleans. Each of you no doubt is praying for this recovery. So many peoplehave lost so much and it reaches far beyond New Orleans.I talked to the Chairman of the Board of HCA yesterday upon returningand told him it was the worse and most difficult challenge I have ever been personally involved with but at the same time I don't think I've everfelt as great a sense of accomplishment from anything I've been involvedwith. Our staff performed like clockwork and it was a beautiful thing toobserve. Our success in this week is simply measured by the fact that we didn'tlose a patient during this trying time.XXXP.S. This event is just below a nuclear catastrophe in its degree of magnitude, and it's clear we're not ready and if we don't do better thenext time a really hard rain's a-gonna fall.
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cosjobs
Footballguy
P.S> Sorry for not fixing all the formatting. I did it for a few paragraphs, but it was just too much of a pita. A side note, Austin has received 5,000 evacuees and the local hpsitals have been on "Code White" (external disaster) thru the weekend, but things have been blessedly manageable and the "code" rescinded. My wife's hospital had to admit only 18 and total was probably less than 100. So the evacuees transported here seem to have been in relatively good shape.
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jplvr
Footballguy
Yep, this is all Bush's fault. Clinton would've had this mess handled in seconds.
Thought this was nice:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8803808
Alabama fans giving up tickets for storm victims already in Tuscaloosa.
Thought this was nice:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8803808
Alabama fans giving up tickets for storm victims already in Tuscaloosa.
shining path
:prettyplease:
Yep, this is all Bush's fault. Clinton would've had this mess handled in seconds.
Thought this was nice:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8803808
Alabama fans giving up tickets for storm victims already in Tuscaloosa.
Wonder if they would have given up UA-Auburn tickets.
jplvr
Footballguy
Yep, this is all Bush's fault. Clinton would've had this mess handled in seconds.
Thought this was nice:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8803808
Alabama fans giving up tickets for storm victims already in Tuscaloosa.
No chance.
Statorama
Footballguy
jplvr
Footballguy
Good news:My friend got back from Baton Rouge last night from taking his gf to see her mother. Recently rescued from New Orleans, she's doing A LOT better after a couple of days out. His gf was a wreck too prior to this trip, so she's doing much better as well after finally seeing her mom.House is supposedly fine. Spared from water and looters they say. Should be able to get back in there soon to get the rest of their belongings.I'm pretty sure they're going to be moving as the experience was enough to kill whatever love she (the mother) had for living there. :(
I'm still here.We lost 6 trees from our yard and 2 of my dad's steel roll-up doors on his shop were sucked out. Trees down everywhere and power was out for 5 days. Still no cable/internet or phone service since a tree fell on the feeder lines going to our house from the main poles/lines.We made it through ok, though. But the force of the wind is awesome when you're outside in it.
The_Hunchback
Footballguy
Yes it is very easy to know everything from the sidelines isn't it? I liked the guy as well but to be honest he isn't one I would have wanted during any disaster. Though he would get myI didn't want to start my own thread about this and I know many of you disagree...
But I just saw Clinton's comments about the response to Katrina and it reminds me of what I miss about having an intelligent, resolved and compassionate leader. He's so damn good. I miss him.
Said all the right things, took the bull by the horns, expressed exactly how people feel and why and promised there would be hearings. All while saying these things are for later. Completely sincere. Honest. Believable.
Edit to add, he also suggested that he has some clear ideas about what went wrong. When's the next time you think we'll hear Bush extemporaneously wax on about his clear ideas about something? Maybe that's part of the problem. A lack of clear ideas from the top these days.
because he would have been to busy playing hide the cigar 
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
good point... not conclusive, but i might expect an educated person like a doctor less likely to misspell tsunami... sunami.* as above, so below.
i was struck by a parallel that just as the swirling, monstrous physical vortex created by an extreme low pressure zone coming into contact with a relatively higher pressure zone that we call a hurricane...
has been mirrored by some other swirling, vortexes on the ground. the thug element creating chaos... shooting at rescue helicopters to impede & block rescue efforts so they can steal, rape & murder for a few more days (not talking about desperate people taking necessities such as food, water, clothes, etc for there survival).
the physical scars left on the ravaged wasteland in the wake of katrina... mirrored by the wounds left on our collective consciousness by the worst & most base impressions from the historic disaster.
the swirling vortex of different levels of response... local, state, federal... police, military, FEMA... planning, evacuation, logistics... without laying blame, it will be sorted out later, but hopefully lessons learned here could lead to more streamlined command, control & communication lines & smoothly coordinated disaster/emergency response.
** i started reading this last night & the horror is almost unimaginable... the stories of marauding gangs of armed bandits roving the post-apocalyptic new orleans landscape sounds like mad max 2.0... the bayou.
maybe they have a vested interest in keeping the city to themselves for a little while longer. hit a few more jewelry stores. what happened to the bank vaults? were money & safe deposit boxes "evacuated"?
*** again, not referring to poor people who need water, etc... but how are police, military currently dealing with more sinister element... those roving in gangs with AK-47s & robbing people at gunpoint... if caught in act, do they tell them to put down weapons & go away? not sure, but it seems like police may not have resources to apprehend & incarcerate criminals with so much activity & so few police. it would be great if they could be finger-printed b4 being turned loose (guess they would have to have waterproof seals)...
a looter identification database... it might take a while for the long arm of the law to catch up with them... many criminals & good citizens both may not have the same address for a long time if ever (in some cases). but some of these people may get picked up on another crime at some point in the future... lets say some of these people, maybe not too far a stretch... armed robbers, rapists, murderers who have been earlier released... had one strike... commit another felony... & show up for the looter incident (even though turned loose at time)...
three strikes your out. maybe this is far-fetched, but it hurts to just hear about it going on unchecked... based on news feeds it looks like virtually everybody is turned loose.
what are the "rules of engagement" with looters... again, talking about armed hardcases, not mom's "stealing" diapers... surely most can see the difference despite the ability to split hairs if some are determined to... they can be shot on sight, no? or is that only if police/military are fired upon first? if they were incarcerated instead of summarily executed... what is the charge... felony? i don't know. i do know that some crimes have a sort of gradation of seriousness...
sort of like selling nuclear secrets to terrorists or attempting to assasinate the president might be treated more harshly than hitting some dude over the head with a beer bottle in a neighborhood bar fight.
* what a riveting, harrowing, deeply saddening thread... i sent a contribution to red cross last week... god bless tipsy (& all FBG gulf coasters & those with family, property & livlihoods there) for your outstanding reporting, & thread steering & helmsmanship (learned 1,000 X more here than on CNN)... you are in our thoughts & prayers. i visited city a few times & made obligatory trek to cafe du monde... the charm, mystique & atmosphere of the city were palpable & as dense & rich as the wonderful, signature chicory coffee.
the hurricane didn't & can't dissipate your great culture.
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For anyone interested, I took pics of our yard and stuff around the area where I live of damage. The pics are at http://www.establishedboard.com/katrina/after-pics/ .
Edit: change "after" to "before" to see what the house/yard looked like Pre-Katrina.
Also wanted to add that this is 90 miles east of where the eye hit.
Edit: change "after" to "before" to see what the house/yard looked like Pre-Katrina.
Also wanted to add that this is 90 miles east of where the eye hit.
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Pigskin P
Wicked Smot
Ooooooh, burn.Yes it is very easy to know everything from the sidelines isn't it? I liked the guy as well but to be honest he isn't one I would have wanted during any disaster. Though he would get myI didn't want to start my own thread about this and I know many of you disagree...
But I just saw Clinton's comments about the response to Katrina and it reminds me of what I miss about having an intelligent, resolved and compassionate leader. He's so damn good. I miss him.
Said all the right things, took the bull by the horns, expressed exactly how people feel and why and promised there would be hearings. All while saying these things are for later. Completely sincere. Honest. Believable.
Edit to add, he also suggested that he has some clear ideas about what went wrong. When's the next time you think we'll hear Bush extemporaneously wax on about his clear ideas about something? Maybe that's part of the problem. A lack of clear ideas from the top these days.
