Keelan Cole, WR, Jets (1 Viewer)

[DarkKnightsGuru]

I'm pumping the breaks a little on him. Last week was kind of a weird game in that the TDs went to him, Mickens and Bohanon. Dede still had more snaps/routes.

Picked him up and am debating him vs. Sanu, but don't think I can risk it.

Remember the guy has had 4 targets in 3 out of last 4 weeks... He had a big game and hes definitely a flex play but hes definitely not a top 1`5 play this week .. 

Him and Dede are right there.. It could be Dede turn this week 

 

[Sarlakticacid]

Against SF it might be everyones turn

 

[downsouth]

deciding between Cole and Hilton. I know hilton sucks but it's too easy to overthink this. 

 

[zftcg]

Remember the guy has had 4 targets in 3 out of last 4 weeks... He had a big game and hes definitely a flex play but hes definitely not a top 1`5 play this week .. 

Him and Dede are right there.. It could be Dede turn this week 

Exactly. I've seen this play out way too many times with lower-tier WRs.

Consider the whole scenario from Dede's perspective. Heading into last week's game his role had been gradually increasing, Bortles was playing better, and he had a cake match-up vs. Houston. But he finished with 2-20. No reason the same thing couldn't happen to Cole this week.

 

[Pwingles]

Exactly. I've seen this play out way too many times with lower-tier WRs.

Consider the whole scenario from Dede's perspective. Heading into last week's game his role had been gradually increasing, Bortles was playing better, and he had a cake match-up vs. Houston. But he finished with 2-20. No reason the same thing couldn't happen to Cole this week.

Coles numbers the last 3 matchups

3/49/1  3 tgts

3/99/1 3 tgts

7/186/1 9 tgts

IDK if this means theyre building a report, or if it was a matchup exploitation for last week. In either case, bortles seems to be finding him when he is open, and he seems to make the most of his targets.

 

[NREC34]

Against SF it might be everyones turn

I’ve got him and Dede. Big underdog. 

I could see throwing them both in the lineup 

 

[zftcg]

Coles numbers the last 3 matchups

3/49/1  3 tgts

3/99/1 3 tgts

7/186/1 9 tgts

IDK if this means theyre building a report, or if it was a matchup exploitation for last week. In either case, bortles seems to be finding him when he is open, and he seems to make the most of his targets.

Yeah, I like what I've seen from Cole so far, and if this were Week 10, I'd be very interested to see what he could produce ROS. But at this point, anyone you pick up off the WW is basically just a DFS play. And I'm not sure I've seen enough from Cole to answer those questions to the point where I want to bet my championship on him.

 

[zftcg]

Against SF it might be everyones turn

Might be. But statistically speaking, it's probably not.

 

[Pwingles]

Yeah, I like what I've seen from Cole so far, and if this were Week 10, I'd be very interested to see what he could produce ROS. But at this point, anyone you pick up off the WW is basically just a DFS play. And I'm not sure I've seen enough from Cole to answer those questions to the point where I want to bet my championship on him.

I dont disagree. My option is wallace or cole. I am strongly considering starting BB over Dak for the championship. If I do, I will likely start cole over wallace

 

[zftcg]

I dont disagree. My option is wallace or cole. I am strongly considering starting BB over Dak for the championship. If I do, I will likely start cole over wallace

Interesting. Are you the underdog? I'm likely starting Bortles over Foles, and that has me leaning against starting Cole. I'm the favorite, and I feel like in that situation it's better to diversify. (Mostly, though, it's because Sanu has a more reliable track record.)

 

[Concept Coop]

Can't decide between Diggs and Cole.  Leaning Diggs for the simple fact that I won't feel as dumb getting burned by the more proven commodity.

 

[rick6668]

Debating between Cole and Funchess.  Olsen seems to be eating into Funchess' targets/catches.  Not sure if I can pull the trigger.

 

[DarkKnightsGuru]

Might be. But statistically speaking, it's probably not.

WHos Sanfran top corner 

 

[Brisco54]

What is the current consensus on dynasty value between Cole and Westbrook?  I can add one this week and not sure which to add.

One factor that pushes me towards Cole is that he appears to have a relatively small 'hatch' time. 

Ok, so I just made up that term... I am using it to describe the amount of time before you will know if your investment has paid off or if it is safe to drop him.  When dealing with the bottom of a roster, hatch time can be very important.  Think about all the moves you have passed on because you did not want to give up on a player.  We all want to invest in lottery tickets that might hit it big, but I also prefer that the time from investment to determination be as short as possible. 

As a drafted player, the Jags will probably give Westbrook more time to develop, so even if he is not getting sufficient targets by the end of week two next year once (if) Arob comes back, those folks who own him will probably want to hold him till at least week 6 or 8.  Whereas, if Cole is not getting enough targets by the end of week 2, as an UDFA, he is probably a much safer drop... especially since after you drop him, you will still be paying more attention to him than most other owners and add him back as soon as the targets return.

That said, from looking at the game write ups, it looks like Westbrook is better at making the catch/body control, and Cole is better at getting open (speed and precise route running).  Since speed fades, that pushes me towards Westbrook. 

Any dynasty folks out there with some insight that can push me one direction or the other?  I do not care about this year.  Championship game is this week, and absent an injury, neither would hit my RB/WR/Flex lineup of Ingram, McCoy, DHop, Keenan Allen, & Alvin Kamara (Flex).

 

[ShamrockPride]

That said, from looking at the game write ups, it looks like Westbrook is better at making the catch/body control, and Cole is better at getting open (speed and precise route running).  Since speed fades, that pushes me towards Westbrook. 

I would go Cole based on this. Yes, speed can fade, but how did Jerry Rice play effectively til 40? Rice was never the fastest guy on the field, but his route running was unparalleled. If you have that, you can always gain separation at any age or any speed.

 

[L5UT1ger]

Fournette didnt play last week and should this week. Just pointing that out to those considering this guy for this week to factor into their decisions. I have this guy, Dede, McKinnon, Gallman to pick for my last flex spot. Im favored by like 10 so may go with highest floor.

 

[ShamrockPride]

And don't let the last 3 big number weeks fool you people. Cole has been finding balls thrown his way a bit longer than that. Since Jags return from their bye:

Week 9: 5 targets

10: 8 targets

11: 6 targets

12: 7 targets

13: 3 targets

14: 3 targets

15: 9 targets

 

[DarkKnightsGuru]

Yes but remember All those games were when Dede was injured when Dede came back those targets changed 

 

[steelwind]

John Oehser @JohnOehser 46m

Jaguars WR Allen Hurns (ankle) expected to practice Wednesday after missing the last five games.

 

[Wrigley]

Chasing points 

pass 

 

[Flint Fireballs!]

I don't think that this IS a case of chasing points.  I think he's been getting a bigger role for several weeks running, and "chasing points" is usually best illustrated based on a decision to start someone because of what they did the prior week; week, not weeks.  I'm leaning toward starting him over Corey Coleman, Hunter Henry, Devante Parker and Will Fuller, for what it's worth.  There really hasn't been all that many reliable receivers this season.  I think Cole is more than a, "chasing points" or "hail Mary" type start.  I think he's a legit option, as far as a #3 receiver type.

 

[steelwind]

Mike Kaye

@mike_e_kaye

Ramsey, Fournette and Hurns were out there. Hurns looked fine in individual drills. No Lee, Lewis or Pinkard. #Jaguars

11:09 AM · Dec 20, 2017

 

[DarkKnightsGuru]

With Hurns back in there.. COle is more hit or miss now... As is Dede....  I rather have Hurns get the #1 corner 

 

[Flint Fireballs!]

I think Cole is clearly the better option than Dede.  That could surely change next season, or sooner, but right now?  I think Cole is who I want in this passing game, Hurns notwithstanding.  Hurns has been injured and is probably going to have some rust - it's not like Bortles is the head of a well-oiled machine, here.  Recent rapport matters, to me, in this situation.  And watching the limited highlights that I have of Cole, I like what I see.  Dude's a burner, and he's running nice routes.

 

[DarkKnightsGuru]

I dont think so .. Dede out targeted him 3 out of last 4 weeks 

 

[zftcg]

With Hurns back in there.. COle is more hit or miss now... As is Dede....  I rather have Hurns get the #1 corner 

I have no idea who the Niners CB1 is, if he follows the WR1 around (odds are, he probably doesn't), and if he does, whether that makes much of a difference. So I wouldn't put too much weight on that factor.

But given that there were already questions about Cole's workload, the fact that there will now be one more mouth to feed makes him an incredibly risky play, IMO.

 

[Loipz]

I think Cole is clearly the better option than Dede.  That could surely change next season, or sooner, but right now?  I think Cole is who I want in this passing game, Hurns notwithstanding.  Hurns has been injured and is probably going to have some rust - it's not like Bortles is the head of a well-oiled machine, here.  Recent rapport matters, to me, in this situation.  And watching the limited highlights that I have of Cole, I like what I see.  Dude's a burner, and he's running nice routes.

Besides last week though DeDe had consistently more targets. Is one game enough?

 

[Football Jones]

Make no mistske, Westbrook is the better long-term prospect regardless of how things shake out this season.

The Jags haven’t even begun to tap into his potential. Really excited to see what Dede can do in 2018.

 

[Concept Coop]

Make no mistske, Westbrook is the better long-term prospect regardless of how things shake out this season.

The Jags haven’t even begun to tap into his potential. Really excited to see what Dede can do in 2018.

Sell me on this.  Obviously we all valued Westbrook more coming into the season (I didn't know Cole's name coming into the season), but Cole has looked really good.  It's not just the numbers - watching him play - he looks legit.  He's made some acrobatic, one-handed catches, he's running good routes, and he's flashed some nice speed as well.  I can't shake the Shorts III/Cruz small school vibe (and unlike Shorts and Cruz, he's flashing in year 1).  I'm not sure I'd move him for Dede right now - and I own and like Dede. Cole has made the jump from wherever-the-hell-he-went-to-school to the NFL look easy.  

 

[Football Jones]

Sell me on this.  Obviously we all valued Westbrook more coming into the season (I didn't know Cole's name coming into the season), but Cole has looked really good.  It's not just the numbers - watching him play - he looks legit.  He's made some acrobatic, one-handed catches, he's running good routes, and he's flashed some nice speed as well.  I can't shake the Shorts III/Cruz small school vibe (and unlike Shorts and Cruz, he's flashing in year 1).  I'm not sure I'd move him for Dede right now - and I own and like Dede. Cole has made the jump from wherever-the-hell-he-went-to-school to the NFL look easy.  

I’m not sure how to sell you if you aren’t already. It’s really not that close, IMO.

Cole is definitely an underrated prospect, but Westbrook in another class. It’s easy to get excited about Cole’s game last week, but remember Westbrook was one of their stars of training camp & had already beaten out Hurns (& Cole) for the slot when he get hurt.

The difference in Westbrook & Cole as prospects is actually quite large. I’m not knocking Cole, but we’re talking about a guy in Dede who was considered a top-50 talent without the character concerns. 

Big difference. Not that Cole can’t far surpass his UDFA status, but he’s at least a tier down from Westbrook at minimum.

 

[Football Jones]

You also have to remember Dede missed half the season.

That’s a big factor when you consider where he is now & what Westbroook would be doing if he’d played the whole year.

Again, not knocking Cole at all. He’s got some potential.

 

[Concept Coop]

I’m not sure how to sell you if you aren’t already. It’s really not that close.

Cole is definitley an underrated prospect, but Westbrook in another class. It’s easy to get excited about Cole’s game last week, but remember Westbrook was one of their stars of training camp & had already beaten out Hurns (& Cole) for the slot when he get hurt.

The difference in Westbrook & Cole as prospects is actually quite large. I’m not knocking Cole, but we’re talking about a guy in Dede who was considered a top-50 talent without the character concerns. 

Big, big difference. Not that Cole can’t far surpass his UDFA status, but he’s at least a tier down from Westbrook at minimum.

If the gap is big, give me something more than "the gap is big."  The pre-draft stance on Cole doesn't mean much to me now.  The NFL very clearly missed on him, and he'd be drafted today with the benefit of hindsight.  

Westbrook has looked solid - the fact that he is seeing the targets he is is great.  But again, he's been solid.  Cole is making plays.  He's averaging 19 YPC, to Dede's 11.6.  

I like both guys as dynasty targets, but I feel comfortable enough trusting what I've seen of Cole - and won't be shopping him for Dede.   My biggest knock on Cole is age, but Westbrook is 24 as well. 

 

[Football Jones]

If the gap is big, give me something more than "the gap is big."  The pre-draft stance on Cole doesn't mean much to me now.  The NFL very clearly missed on him, and he'd be drafted today with the benefit of hindsight.  

Westbrook has looked solid - the fact that he is seeing the targets he is is great.  But again, he's been solid.  Cole is making plays.  He's averaging 19 YPC, to Dede's 11.6.  

I like both guys as dynasty targets, but I feel comfortable enough trusting what I've seen of Cole - and won't be shopping him for Dede.   My biggest knock on Cole is age, but Westbrook is 24 as well. 

In short, literally everything. 

Westbrook is a better prospect in essentially all facets. The gap is much bigger than what it seems now.

 

[Concept Coop]

In short, literally everything. 

Westbrook is a better prospect in essentially all facets. The gap is much bigger than what it seems now.

Cole is taller, heavier, and appears to have longer arms and bigger hands.  So not literally everything, at least.  I respect you and your track record, but I'm going with Cole for now.  Things change fast, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Westbrook be worth much more than Cole a year from now, but Cole is my slight lean at the moment.  

 

[Football Jones]

Cole is taller, heavier, and appears to have longer arms and bigger hands.  So not literally everything, at least.  I respect you and your track record, but I'm going with Cole for now.  Things change fast, and I wouldn't be shocked to see Westbrook be worth much more than Cole a year from now, but Cole is my slight lean at the moment.  

I appreciate your opinion.

All I can say is Westbrook hasn’t even come close to maximizing his potential due mostly to missing half the season. I expect a huge jump in production in 2018.

I feel confident in saying Dede will beat out Cole again next training camp if they end up competing for the same position (whether in the slot or outside).

Maybe they both will earn starting jobs. Like I said, Cole does have potential. Interesting situation to monitor for sure. 

 

[BigTex]

I’m a huge Dede fan but I’m not so sure the gap is that big either. I too have Cole and I’m totally satisfied with having him. I don’t thing this situation will be clear until next year when they prove their worth after getting more experience. Regardless, it will be fun watching.

Tex

 

[az_prof]

Dede looks more bust-prone to me.  He has not done much and injuries do often play a role in whether a player becomes successful or not.  The window of opportunity is small and if you aren't ready when it opens you can get left behind.  Fourth round picks who only weigh 180 pounds are a dime a dozen.

Right now I would not trade Cole for Dede and it isn't even close. 

 

[BigTex]

Dede looks more bust-prone to me.  He has not done much and injuries do often play a role in whether a player becomes successful or not.  The window of opportunity is small and if you aren't ready when it opens you can get left behind.  Fourth round picks who only weigh 180 pounds are a dime a dozen.

Right now I would not trade Cole for Dede and it isn't even close. 

The thing about Cole is that he averaged 24.6 YPR before the NFL draft. So far this year 24% of his targets are 20 plus yds so his game is translating to the NFL which is what we as owners want. If you’re going to acquire him now will be that time before he gets a bigger role in this offense.

Tex

 

[RushHour]

What is the current consensus on dynasty value between Cole and Westbrook?  I can add one this week and not sure which to add.

One factor that pushes me towards Cole is that he appears to have a relatively small 'hatch' time. 

Ok, so I just made up that term... I am using it to describe the amount of time before you will know if your investment has paid off or if it is safe to drop him.  When dealing with the bottom of a roster, hatch time can be very important.  Think about all the moves you have passed on because you did not want to give up on a player.  We all want to invest in lottery tickets that might hit it big, but I also prefer that the time from investment to determination be as short as possible. 

As a drafted player, the Jags will probably give Westbrook more time to develop, so even if he is not getting sufficient targets by the end of week two next year once (if) Arob comes back, those folks who own him will probably want to hold him till at least week 6 or 8.  Whereas, if Cole is not getting enough targets by the end of week 2, as an UDFA, he is probably a much safer drop... especially since after you drop him, you will still be paying more attention to him than most other owners and add him back as soon as the targets return.

That said, from looking at the game write ups, it looks like Westbrook is better at making the catch/body control, and Cole is better at getting open (speed and precise route running).  Since speed fades, that pushes me towards Westbrook. 

Any dynasty folks out there with some insight that can push me one direction or the other?  I do not care about this year.  Championship game is this week, and absent an injury, neither would hit my RB/WR/Flex lineup of Ingram, McCoy, DHop, Keenan Allen, & Alvin Kamara (Flex).

I like Cole better as a prospect but Dede will probably continue to have much more trade value so maybe he's a better pick up from that perspective - pick him up to trade him. 

 

[RushHour]

I appreciate your opinion.

All I can say is Westbrook hasn’t even come close to maximizing his potential due mostly to missing half the season. I expect a huge jump in production in 2018.

I feel confident in saying Dede will beat out Cole again next training camp if they end up competing for the same position (whether in the slot or outside).

Maybe they both will earn starting jobs. Like I said, Cole does have potential. Interesting situation to monitor for sure. 

The hype for Dede doesn't make much sense to me. What's it based on? He had a couple of huge preseason games, but Cole was impressive in preseason too and I'm not sure it's correct to say that Dede beat him out before he got hurt - the Jags were pushing Cole early and he was an early camp star too. It's possible that Dede not being around gave Cole more opportunities, but I don't think you can say that definitively. 

Westbrook has had some nice moments this season too - I'm not trying to say he's nothing. I just don't see how his dynasty value is so high compared to what he's actually done (not talking about your posts, but the vibe out there more generally in fantasy land) or why there is a perceived "gap" in talent between the two in Dede's favour. 

 

[Football Jones]

I saw a few people mention Cole’s speed, but he ran a 4.59 at his Pro Day compared to Westbrook’s 4.39. I know Cole had an outrageous YPC in college, but I can only imagine what Dede would’ve done at Kentucky Wesleyan.

I do think Cole has some nice ability & could be a real find, but let’s keep things in perspective at this point. He’s just not the prospect Westbrook is.

That said, it doesn’t surprise me Cole is outproducing Dede right now. We’ve got to factor in the half season Westbrook missed.

I don’t know who the better play is this week. I’d have to think on it more, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see Westbrook go off in the coming weeks.

I’m anxious to see their production the rest of the way, but I’m confident Westbrook will outproduce him next season. I do understand the excitement for Cole, though. I’m curious to see how it shakes out.

 

[BigTex]

The hype for Dede doesn't make much sense to me. What's it based on? He had a couple of huge preseason games, but Cole was impressive in preseason too and I'm not sure it's correct to say that Dede beat him out before he got hurt - the Jags were pushing Cole early and he was an early camp star too. It's possible that Dede not being around gave Cole more opportunities, but I don't think you can say that definitively. 

Westbrook has had some nice moments this season too - I'm not trying to say he's nothing. I just don't see how his dynasty value is so high compared to what he's actually done (not talking about your posts, but the vibe out there more generally in fantasy land) or why there is a perceived "gap" in talent between the two in Dede's favour. 

The hype on Westbrook is deserving. He’s fast, quick, ran the entire route tree in College and he very rarely ever drops a catchable pass. I could go on because he’s a stud in the making no doubt. I had him 1b last year behind Davis but I didn’t have room on my team to draft him or else I would have. Jax has a very talented WR group both of these guys are deserving of the love that they are getting.

Tex

 

[az_prof]

Dede is small. The only guys who are as small as him and who become top producers have outrageous speed.  I just don't see it.  He will be lucky in his entire career to ever have a game as good as Cole just had.

 

[Football Jones]

Dede is small. The only guys who are as small as him and who become top producers have outrageous speed.  I just don't see it.  He will be lucky in his entire career to ever have a game as good as Cole just had.

Westbrook has a very similar body type to Cole. He's 6'0 178 to Cole's 6'1 190. They're both slight of build, but Dede is much faster at 4.39 to 4.59 (Pro Day).

Size is great, but Antonio Brown is 5'10" 181. Westbrook has the skills to excel at his size.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

I saw a few people mention Cole’s speed, but he ran a 4.59 at his Pro Day compared to Westbrook’s 4.39. I know Cole had an outrageous YPC in college, but I can only imagine what Dede would’ve done at Kentucky Wesleyan.

I do think Cole has some nice ability & could be a real find, but let’s keep things in perspective at this point. He’s just not the prospect Westbrook is.

That said, it doesn’t surprise me Cole is outproducing Dede right now. We’ve got to factor in the half season Westbrook missed.

I don’t know who the better play is this week. I’d have to think on it more, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see Westbrook go off in the coming weeks.

I’m anxious to see their production the rest of the way, but I’m confident Westbrook will outproduce him next season. I do understand the excitement for Cole, though. I’m curious to see how it shakes out.

i didnt watch the last game ...but is it possible it was a case of Westbrook getting more defensive attention than Cole?now that teams have seen what he can do maybe they game plan for him now

 

[Young 8]

Is this the "Thielen vs Treadwell" thread ?

 

[Ack88]

So- with that in mind and the Jaguars injury listings at WR, is Cole a guy you can trust this weekend? I just added him.

 

[DerbyDad]

So- with that in mind and the Jaguars injury listings at WR, is Cole a guy you can trust this weekend? I just added him.

That's my debate for this week.  I picked him up and now hear that Hurns may play.  How does that affect his production.  Who plays the slot?  I'd like to start him over Evans but now I'm rethinking it.  I hate Evans attitude and how he has been such a disappointment this year.

 

[DarkKnightsGuru]

you mean the Thielen/ Diggs Thread..  Who would of thought Thielen was better than Diggs

 

[Concept Coop]

I saw a few people mention Cole’s speed, but he ran a 4.59 at his Pro Day compared to Westbrook’s 4.39. I know Cole had an outrageous YPC in college, but I can only imagine what Dede would’ve done at Kentucky Wesleyan.

I do think Cole has some nice ability & could be a real find, but let’s keep things in perspective at this point. He’s just not the prospect Westbrook is.

That said, it doesn’t surprise me Cole is outproducing Dede right now. We’ve got to factor in the half season Westbrook missed.

I don’t know who the better play is this week. I’d have to think on it more, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see Westbrook go off in the coming weeks.

I’m anxious to see their production the rest of the way, but I’m confident Westbrook will outproduce him next season. I do understand the excitement for Cole, though. I’m curious to see how it shakes out.

Have you watched Cole's college tape?  The school couldn't even afford quality cameras to shoot the games; I don't know if they even have a track and field team.  It's very likely he just wasn't well coached to run the 40.  If anyone really thinks he's a borderline 4.6 guy on the field, watch a clip from one of his 70+ yard TDs.  He's plenty, plenty fast. 

Edit: Not that the school would supply the cameras, but you get my point.