Keenan Allen - 4.7x forties?! (1 Viewer)

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

Ouch! Does this hurt his stock huge or should we disregard given his tape elusiveness and his current injury?

 

[werdnoynek]

i heard he had a terrible start on both of them but still... definitely slow. also read that Dr. Andrews says Allen's knee is at 100% his surrounding muscles are at 75%...

his tape does show more speed than that - i heard his routes were great today and he looked faster than his forty time during those. i don't think his game really is speed anyway. he's more of a cris carter / fitz receiver in my eyes... he may no longer be picked in the first but he's still likely a top 50 pick.

 

[Carl Eller's Dead Liver]

i heard he had a terrible start on both of them but still... definitely slow. also read that Dr. Andrews says Allen's knee is at 100% his surrounding muscles are at 75%...

his tape does show more speed than that - i heard his routes were great today and he looked faster than his forty time during those. i don't think his game really is speed anyway. he's more of a cris carter / fitz receiver in my eyes... he may no longer be picked in the first but he's still likely a top 50 pick.

Yeah, I'd agree with everytyhing you just said. I still think he's underrated and this will make him even further so.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

i heard he had a terrible start on both of them but still... definitely slow. also read that Dr. Andrews says Allen's knee is at 100% his surrounding muscles are at 75%...

his tape does show more speed than that - i heard his routes were great today and he looked faster than his forty time during those. i don't think his game really is speed anyway. he's more of a cris carter / fitz receiver in my eyes... he may no longer be picked in the first but he's still likely a top 50 pick.

 

[Godsbrother]

i heard he had a terrible start on both of them but still... definitely slow. also read that Dr. Andrews says Allen's knee is at 100% his surrounding muscles are at 75%...

his tape does show more speed than that - i heard his routes were great today and he looked faster than his forty time during those. i don't think his game really is speed anyway. he's more of a cris carter / fitz receiver in my eyes... he may no longer be picked in the first but he's still likely a top 50 pick.

Would love the Steelers to grab him in the 2nd.

 

[werdnoynek]

the vikings, panthers (WR coach Proehl threw passes during routes), and the colts were heavily represented today per James Dator with SB nation.

among them Steelers, Rams, Jets, Packers, Redskins, Falcons, Texans, Broncos, Niners, Bengals, Jags, and Giants.

aka - the NFL.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Cough. Cough.

One of the things that's interesting about that group of players is that there's a fairly strong correlation suggested between 40 times and NCAA performance scores for players with this profile. Based on that correlation and the lack of a timed run, it wouldn't surprise me to find that Allen's straight line speed is 4.6x.

Obviously 4.7x even worse than I expected, but his profile screams slow.

 

[EBF]

You'd hope that with all the training and time these guys put into running fast, an NFL caliber WR could at least hit 4.6 at his pro day. Either he's just really slow or he's injured. His game was always more about quickness than speed, but he doesn't have the frame of a typical possession WR. Makes him look like a big tweener. Plus side is that he'll be a lot cheaper to acquire now, so the risk is less.

 

[JohnnyU]

You'd hope that with all the training and time these guys put into running fast, an NFL caliber WR could at least hit 4.6 at his pro day. Either he's just really slow or he's injured. His game was always more about quickness than speed, but he doesn't have the frame of a typical possession WR. Makes him look like a big tweener. Plus side is that he'll be a lot cheaper to acquire now, so the risk is less.

So where do you feel comfortable taking him in a dynasty rookie draft?

 

[cstu]

UPDATE: Allen apparently ran his 40-yard dashes in the mid 4.5 range according to James, though some scouts timed him in the 4.6's. However, James said that "Allen is faster in his routes than his 40 showed" and called his route-running "impressive".

 

[EBF]

You'd hope that with all the training and time these guys put into running fast, an NFL caliber WR could at least hit 4.6 at his pro day. Either he's just really slow or he's injured. His game was always more about quickness than speed, but he doesn't have the frame of a typical possession WR. Makes him look like a big tweener. Plus side is that he'll be a lot cheaper to acquire now, so the risk is less.

So where do you feel comfortable taking him in a dynasty rookie draft?

Well now we're getting conflicting reports on his times. If it's in the 4.5 range or even 4.6 then that's more promising.

I had him as a top 6 rookie draft pick before today.

 

[CalBear]

You'd hope that with all the training and time these guys put into running fast, an NFL caliber WR could at least hit 4.6 at his pro day. Either he's just really slow or he's injured. His game was always more about quickness than speed, but he doesn't have the frame of a typical possession WR. Makes him look like a big tweener. Plus side is that he'll be a lot cheaper to acquire now, so the risk is less.

So where do you feel comfortable taking him in a dynasty rookie draft?

Well now we're getting conflicting reports on his times. If it's in the 4.5 range or even 4.6 then that's more promising.

I had him as a top 6 rookie draft pick before today.

Hand-timed 40s at pro days are bunk anyway; never upgrade or downgrade receivers based on pro day times. (Even combine times are a weak indicator).

Allen was a man amongst boys at the college level; his pro range will be solid-to-great as a possession receiver.

 

[Sake-Bombers]

Could this be an example of too much stock being put into combine/measurables and not enough into tape? As EBF said, this may just serve to make him more attainable for those who liked him before.

 

[moderated]

another slow over hyped college WR. Smaller version of USC Mike Williams.

 

[Concept Coop]

another slow over hyped college WR. Smaller version of USC Mike Williams.

But we don't know what a motivated Mike Williams would have been. He has no more in common with him than he does Jerry Rice or Anquan Boldin, who both ran slow 40s.

 

[cstu]

You'd hope that with all the training and time these guys put into running fast, an NFL caliber WR could at least hit 4.6 at his pro day. Either he's just really slow or he's injured. His game was always more about quickness than speed, but he doesn't have the frame of a typical possession WR. Makes him look like a big tweener. Plus side is that he'll be a lot cheaper to acquire now, so the risk is less.

So where do you feel comfortable taking him in a dynasty rookie draft?

Well now we're getting conflicting reports on his times. If it's in the 4.5 range or even 4.6 then that's more promising.

I had him as a top 6 rookie draft pick before today.

I still have in my top 10 after this. Where he's drafted will tell how much this Pro Day matters. If he's a 2nd round pick I'll still feel good about him.

 

[EBF]

Mike Williams ran 4.56, which is adequate speed. I think his biggest problem is that he was a sluggish route runner.

I think Allen has pretty good foot quickness. He isn't fast, but he's quick. A bit like Crabtree or maybe Rueben Randle in that regard.

The big difference between him and Crabtree is that he's not that big and strong, which could be an issue.

 

[werdnoynek]

Mayock video and writeup from Sessler here:

Where Keenan Allen lands in the draft will boil down to how teams view what he brings to the table -- and what he doesn't.

The Cal wide receiver was clocked by NFL Network's Mike Mayock at 4.71 and 4.75 seconds in the 40-yard dash at Allen's pro day Tuesday, confirming that blazing speed is not a quality he offers.

He's been hampered by a posterior cruciate ligament injury throughout the draft process, but doctors now describe Allen's left knee as fully healthy after he re-injured it in January. Trainers told Mayock that Allen only has 75 percent to 80 percent of his explosion, but said "that's what comes last" in the healing process. Allen recently told The Sacramento Bee that he's only about 85 percent back.

"Let me preface the whole 40-yard conversation with this," Mayock told NFL Network's "Path to the Draft."

"Three months ago, I said -- if you watch this kid on tape -- if you like him, he's Anquan Boldin. If you don't like him, he's speed-deficient. So I don't really care what he runs in the 40. On tape, to me, he's a 4.55 guy all day long."

Mayock called Allen's 40 results "not a good time," but scouts and coaches told him they expect Allen to be faster down the road. What he gives you, according to Mayock, is "a big, powerful, wide receiver" who might go anywhere from No. 25 to No. 45 in the 2013 NFL Draft.

"I believe in his toughness and his hands," Mayock said, confirming that he would, indeed, "bang the table" for Allen (and in Mayock's universe, that's a compliment of the highest order).

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Cough. Cough.

One of the things that's interesting about that group of players is that there's a fairly strong correlation suggested between 40 times and NCAA performance scores for players with this profile. Based on that correlation and the lack of a timed run, it wouldn't surprise me to find that Allen's straight line speed is 4.6x.

Obviously 4.7x even worse than I expected, but his profile screams slow.

what is a performance score and would it have anything to do with allen having terrible QB play?

 

[ShaHBucks]

Dam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

 

[cstu]

ShaHBucks, on 09 Apr 2013 - 12:57, saidam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

He could go either way, but I see him more as Michael Clayton (his rookie year) rather Massaquoi.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Cough. Cough.

One of the things that's interesting about that group of players is that there's a fairly strong correlation suggested between 40 times and NCAA performance scores for players with this profile. Based on that correlation and the lack of a timed run, it wouldn't surprise me to find that Allen's straight line speed is 4.6x.

Obviously 4.7x even worse than I expected, but his profile screams slow.

what is a performance score and would it have anything to do with allen having terrible QB play?

It's a way of measuring what a WR did with the balls he actually caught so it can be compared with other WRs. There's a big disucussion about how and whether QB play affects it somewhere upthread.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

ShaHBucks, on 09 Apr 2013 - 12:57, saidam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

He could go either way, but I see him more as Michael Clayton (his rookie year) rather Massaquoi.

I'm not sure I'd be banking on a fluky year like Clayton had, but now that we have a pretty good idea Allen is slow Clayton's a great comp IMO.

 

[ShaHBucks]

ShaHBucks, on 09 Apr 2013 - 12:57, saidam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

He could go either way, but I see him more as Michael Clayton (his rookie year) rather Massaquoi.

I'm not sure I'd be banking on a fluky year like Clayton had, but now that we have a pretty good idea Allen is slow Clayton's a great comp IMO.

Maybe a A. Boldin??

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

ShaHBucks, on 09 Apr 2013 - 12:57, saidam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

He could go either way, but I see him more as Michael Clayton (his rookie year) rather Massaquoi.

I'm not sure I'd be banking on a fluky year like Clayton had, but now that we have a pretty good idea Allen is slow Clayton's a great comp IMO.

Maybe a A. Boldin??

Boldin's an inch and half shorter and 10 pounds heavier. That doesn't sound like much, but the combination is an enormous difference.

And if the 4.72 listing is right Boldin may be some sort of once in a generation freak anyhow -- that'd be by far the slowest player to make it as a WR in recent years. I'm not sure I'd bank on anyone that slow even if they had a great profile otherwise (and Allen doesn't).

 

[ShaHBucks]

ShaHBucks, on 09 Apr 2013 - 12:57, saidam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

He could go either way, but I see him more as Michael Clayton (his rookie year) rather Massaquoi.

I'm not sure I'd be banking on a fluky year like Clayton had, but now that we have a pretty good idea Allen is slow Clayton's a great comp IMO.

Maybe a A. Boldin??

Boldin's an inch and half shorter and 10 pounds heavier. That doesn't sound like much, but the combination is an enormous difference. And if the 4.72 listing is right Boldin may be some sort of once in a generation freak anyhow -- that'd be by far the slowest player to make it as a WR in recent years. I'm not sure I'd bank on anyone that slow even if they had a great profile otherwise (and Allen doesn't).

The both have a special pair of hands. Boldin literally has defenders on his back when he catches the ball. That's good but not elite

 

[Xue]

I have Keenan Allen at 10-yard: 1.80, 20-yard: 2.90. His finish isn't clear, so estimate it at 4.70-4.74. He had a sluggish start.

His 10-40 time of 2.92 is comparable to Bailey, Hopkins, Hamilton, Harper, Mellette, Patton, Williams, Wilson.

 

[MNTom]

I don't put a lot of stock in 40 times. Some players can run fast in a straight line in shorts/t-shirt but put them in pads and make them run routes and they can be slow. Some players are just the opposite.

 

[Steed]

ShaHBucks, on 09 Apr 2013 - 12:57, saidam. I was really hoping he had good measurements. You have to downgrade him here. 4.7 screams possession WR, probably a tall Lance Moore. He could catch 100 balls in the right offense but what will he do after the catch?

He could go either way, but I see him more as Michael Clayton (his rookie year) rather Massaquoi.

I'm not sure I'd be banking on a fluky year like Clayton had, but now that we have a pretty good idea Allen is slow Clayton's a great comp IMO.

Maybe a A. Boldin??

Boldin's an inch and half shorter and 10 pounds heavier. That doesn't sound like much, but the combination is an enormous difference. And if the 4.72 listing is right Boldin may be some sort of once in a generation freak anyhow -- that'd be by far the slowest player to make it as a WR in recent years. I'm not sure I'd bank on anyone that slow even if they had a great profile otherwise (and Allen doesn't).

Boldin, like Allen, was having knee issues at the time. Iirc, he had surgery before the Combine and the issue crept up again after his rookie year forcing him to miss almost half a season.

 

[Faust]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/...fl-draft-allens-workout-raises-some-questions

2013 NFL Draft: Allen's workout raises questions about his knee

By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
April 9, 2013 6:38 pm ET

When healthy, California's Keenan Allen might be the best all-around wide receiver in the 2013 NFL Draft class. But a PCL injury to his left knee last October, which ended his junior season prematurely, has kept him sidelined thus far through the draft process.

However, Allen was finally able to work out Tuesday in front of NFL scouts, running the 40-yard dash and catching the ball in Greensboro, N.C., at Ricky Proehl's facility. He ran his 40 in the 4.70-4.76 range, according to those in attendance, a number that obviously comes with an asterisk due to Allen's lengthy knee rehab. Allen did look good catching the ball, showing polished routes, reliable hands and good vision to track the ball and watch it into his large mitts.

Allen is currently rated as NFLDraftScout.com's No. 4 wide receiver and No. 32 prospect overall. He began and ended the 2012 season as NFLDraftScout.com's top player at the position, but the knee injury has inched him down the rankings. Allen currently sits at No. 25 (to the Vikings) in Rob Rang's mock draft and at No. 27 (to the Texans) in Dane Brugler's first-round mock.

Per several reports, Allen's knee is 100 percent healthy, but the surrounding muscles are only about 75 percent healed, which hampered him during Tuesday's workout and kept him from performing the vertical jump or broad jump drills. He isn't an explosive or fast player to begin with, but is able to be productive due to his natural body control, sharp routes and ability to catch everything thrown his way.

The below-average 40-yard dash times likely won't hurt Allen's draft value, but concerns over the health of his knee could push his name down teams' draft boards. This year's draft class doesn't have that clear-cut No. 1 receiver like a Calvin Johnson or A.J. Green type of prospect. But there are several very talented wideouts worthy of first-round consideration, and when healthy Allen is definitely one of them. However, worries about the health of the knee now makes it more likely he will be selected in the late first or early second round, rather than the top 20.

Maybe the most unfortunate aspect of Allen's long road back is that the original injury occurred in the final minutes of a game against Utah that was already out of reach for California. It also happened on kickoff coverage.

Proehl, a former NFL wide receiver, has worked with Allen throughout the pre-draft process. Proehl is currently the wide receiver coach for the Carolina Panthers, who own the 14th and 44th overall selections in the first two rounds of the 2013 NFL Draft.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Things like this always make me wonder. If he was running 4.7's the week leading up to this wouldn't he be better off just not running? Gotta think he was running better than that and he just got a bad start when it counted, right?

 

[werdnoynek]

video of one of his 40 attempts -

very odd start with a bit of a hitch... honestly though, i agree with mayocks take - who cares what he runs... he plays plenty fast on the field.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Wright had a similar problem with his start last year. He ran a 4.61 but it was obvious he just screwed the pooch on the starting form.

That does raise questions about work ethic--which was my biggest problem with Wright last year. 15% body fat on a kid that small and he can't even both to learn correct form for his all-important 40 yard dash? Really rubbed me the wrong way.

I don't think that's the case with Allen, but maybe. His start was atrocious and invalidates the ten-yard split and the 40 in general.

 

[Xue]

If you're an agent, you should know what your player is going to run. If he's going to run poorly, have him skip it.

 

[Nero]

So, is the 40 all we have? The other workout numbers are pretty inportant too.

 

[werdnoynek]

it's pretty clear that allen was hampered by his injury. find any highlights or game tape of him and you can clearly see that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EF0N9S_ZDg

there's quite a few shots of him running reverses and returning punts... if he is truly a 4.7 guy there's no way in hell he'd be out there doing that. the people calling him slow and saying he plays slow have never seen him play imo. he's never been a burner but he has enough speed and agility to make people miss in the open field and route running ability to get open consistently. people will point to the stats... if maynard could have consistently gotten the ball in allen's hands on time and in the right spot while he's in stride, he could have won a biletnikoff. if playing with maynard showed us anything, it's that this guy can catch the ball if it's anywhere near him... but having to stop or change direction to catch an off target throw is going to have an impact on all your stats as a WR.

consistent is one of the most fitting adjectives for allen. in games and on tape, he's the most consistent receiver in this class hands down. true, long speed is a concern with him and he didn't help himself with this pro-day showing, but i don't think teams will be looking at this number as an accurate indication of his true speed. what he is on the field... consistent... is more telling in my eyes and i'm sure there will be teams that agree. i think the real question is how healthy is he? if he falls outside of the top 50, there's probably more to the injury than we've been told.

 

[JohnnyU]

it's pretty clear that allen was hampered by his injury. find any highlights or game tape of him and you can clearly see that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EF0N9S_ZDg

there's quite a few shots of him running reverses and returning punts... if he is truly a 4.7 guy there's no way in hell he'd be out there doing that. the people calling him slow and saying he plays slow have never seen him play imo. he's never been a burner but he has enough speed and agility to make people miss in the open field and route running ability to get open consistently. people will point to the stats... if maynard could have consistently gotten the ball in allen's hands on time and in the right spot while he's in stride, he could have won a biletnikoff. if playing with maynard showed us anything, it's that this guy can catch the ball if it's anywhere near him... but having to stop or change direction to catch an off target throw is going to have an impact on all your stats as a WR.

consistent is one of the most fitting adjectives for allen. in games and on tape, he's the most consistent receiver in this class hands down. true, long speed is a concern with him and he didn't help himself with this pro-day showing, but i don't think teams will be looking at this number as an accurate indication of his true speed. what he is on the field... consistent... is more telling in my eyes and i'm sure there will be teams that agree. i think the real question is how healthy is he? if he falls outside of the top 50, there's probably more to the injury than we've been told.

After saying all of that, would you still take him in the top 3 of a dynasty rookie draft? I might throw a dart at him late in the first rd of a rookie draft providing Eifert was off the board. I've never been convinced he deserves upper tier consideration in the NFL. I still prefer Robert Woods over him and do more so today than at any other time.

 

[werdnoynek]

it's pretty clear that allen was hampered by his injury. find any highlights or game tape of him and you can clearly see that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EF0N9S_ZDg

there's quite a few shots of him running reverses and returning punts... if he is truly a 4.7 guy there's no way in hell he'd be out there doing that. the people calling him slow and saying he plays slow have never seen him play imo. he's never been a burner but he has enough speed and agility to make people miss in the open field and route running ability to get open consistently. people will point to the stats... if maynard could have consistently gotten the ball in allen's hands on time and in the right spot while he's in stride, he could have won a biletnikoff. if playing with maynard showed us anything, it's that this guy can catch the ball if it's anywhere near him... but having to stop or change direction to catch an off target throw is going to have an impact on all your stats as a WR.

consistent is one of the most fitting adjectives for allen. in games and on tape, he's the most consistent receiver in this class hands down. true, long speed is a concern with him and he didn't help himself with this pro-day showing, but i don't think teams will be looking at this number as an accurate indication of his true speed. what he is on the field... consistent... is more telling in my eyes and i'm sure there will be teams that agree. i think the real question is how healthy is he? if he falls outside of the top 50, there's probably more to the injury than we've been told.

After saying all of that, would you still take him in the top 3 of a dynasty rookie draft? I might throw a dart at him late in the first rd of a rookie draft providing Eifert was off the board. I've never been convinced he deserves upper tier consideration in the NFL. I still prefer Robert Woods over him and do more so today than at any other time.

absolutely.

 

[tietzjd]

If this guy falls to the 2nd round the Vikings would be nuts, not package 4th and little more to move up to grab him.

To be honest, I am still under the option the Vikings might package 2nd and 3rd to move back in to 1st round like last year.

Grabbing 3 1st rounder's that will be starting their 4th years as the new palace opens up, might be intriguing bet.

 

[BruceAlmighty]

If you are a team that needs a receiver to compliment an established number one, Allen is one to consider. He has a nice catch radius. But I cannot conceive of him being a receiver the opponents have to roll coverage to. From a fantasy perspective, I would prefer at least five wideouts over him.

 

[werdnoynek]

If you are a team that needs a receiver to compliment an established number one, Allen is one to consider. He has a nice catch radius. But I cannot conceive of him being a receiver the opponents have to roll coverage to. From a fantasy perspective, I would prefer at least five wideouts over him.

interesting. such as?

 

[BruceAlmighty]

Rogers: Best wr prospect in this class. Led SEC in receiving as a sophomore. At the combine He ran a 4.52, which is fine for his size, and he finished in the Top 5 in the 3-cone, 20-yard shuttle, 60-yard shuttle, vertical jump and broad jump. At 6-foot-2, 217 pounds, thats a fantastic athlete. The off field issues are a concern, but I know he has the ability to be a very productive wr. I can't say that about Allen.

Patterson: Basically the same as Rogers. Stud athlete. Game breaking potential. I'd be hesitant to spend a top 20 pick in the draft if I were a gm, but he has an all pro skill set.

Austin: More of the same. Home run hitter. Great versatility.

Hunter: Great size/speed combo, could easily make a case for him being the best wr prospect in this class.

Hopkins: Had a great senior year and actually over shadowed Sammy Watkins. Workout numbers have his stock rising even more.

Woods: My hesitancy to draft PAC-12 wr is well documented on this site (two haven't sucked in the last decade from a fantasy perspective) but I like his skill set better than Allen's.

That's just off the top of my head. I just don't see Allen as anything more than a possession receiver.

 

[Xue]

Rogers: Best wr prospect in this class. Led SEC in receiving as a sophomore. At the combine He ran a 4.52, which is fine for his size, and he finished in the Top 5 in the 3-cone, 20-yard shuttle, 60-yard shuttle, vertical jump and broad jump. At 6-foot-2, 217 pounds, thats a fantastic athlete. The off field issues are a concern, but I know he has the ability to be a very productive wr. I can't say that about Allen.Patterson: Basically the same as Rogers. Stud athlete. Game breaking potential. I'd be hesitant to spend a top 20 pick in the draft if I were a gm, but he has an all pro skill set.Austin: More of the same. Home run hitter. Great versatility.Hunter: Great size/speed combo, could easily make a case for him being the best wr prospect in this class.Hopkins: Had a great senior year and actually over shadowed Sammy Watkins. Workout numbers have his stock rising even more.Woods: My hesitancy to draft PAC-12 wr is well documented on this site (two haven't sucked in the last decade from a fantasy perspective) but I like his skill set better than Allen's.That's just off the top of my head. I just don't see Allen as anything more than a possession receiver.

Hopkins is a Junior and didn't have impressive combine measurables.

Allen and Hopkins are on the same level to me. Allen just a bit taller.

 

[BruceAlmighty]

Rogers: Best wr prospect in this class. Led SEC in receiving as a sophomore. At the combine He ran a 4.52, which is fine for his size, and he finished in the Top 5 in the 3-cone, 20-yard shuttle, 60-yard shuttle, vertical jump and broad jump. At 6-foot-2, 217 pounds, thats a fantastic athlete. The off field issues are a concern, but I know he has the ability to be a very productive wr. I can't say that about Allen.Patterson: Basically the same as Rogers. Stud athlete. Game breaking potential. I'd be hesitant to spend a top 20 pick in the draft if I were a gm, but he has an all pro skill set.Austin: More of the same. Home run hitter. Great versatility.Hunter: Great size/speed combo, could easily make a case for him being the best wr prospect in this class.Hopkins: Had a great senior year and actually over shadowed Sammy Watkins. Workout numbers have his stock rising even more.Woods: My hesitancy to draft PAC-12 wr is well documented on this site (two haven't sucked in the last decade from a fantasy perspective) but I like his skill set better than Allen's.That's just off the top of my head. I just don't see Allen as anything more than a possession receiver.

Hopkins is a Junior and didn't have impressive combine measurables. Allen and Hopkins are on the same level to me. Allen just a bit taller.

You're right. Hopkins is a junior. I like him better than Allen because I think he has the best set of hands in this class. I also forgot Quinton Patton. I'd take him over Allen too. Allen just scares me. There's a ton of risk with negligible upside. When it comes to wr, I swing for the fences, especially early in rookie drafts. I just don't see Allen as a smart gamble.

 

[werdnoynek]

Rogers: Best wr prospect in this class. Led SEC in receiving as a sophomore. At the combine He ran a 4.52, which is fine for his size, and he finished in the Top 5 in the 3-cone, 20-yard shuttle, 60-yard shuttle, vertical jump and broad jump. At 6-foot-2, 217 pounds, thats a fantastic athlete. The off field issues are a concern, but I know he has the ability to be a very productive wr. I can't say that about Allen.Patterson: Basically the same as Rogers. Stud athlete. Game breaking potential. I'd be hesitant to spend a top 20 pick in the draft if I were a gm, but he has an all pro skill set.Austin: More of the same. Home run hitter. Great versatility.Hunter: Great size/speed combo, could easily make a case for him being the best wr prospect in this class.Hopkins: Had a great senior year and actually over shadowed Sammy Watkins. Workout numbers have his stock rising even more.Woods: My hesitancy to draft PAC-12 wr is well documented on this site (two haven't sucked in the last decade from a fantasy perspective) but I like his skill set better than Allen's.That's just off the top of my head. I just don't see Allen as anything more than a possession receiver.

Hopkins is a Junior and didn't have impressive combine measurables. Allen and Hopkins are on the same level to me. Allen just a bit taller.

You're right. Hopkins is a junior. I like him better than Allen because I think he has the best set of hands in this class. I also forgot Quinton Patton. I'd take him over Allen too.Allen just scares me. There's a ton of risk with negligible upside. When it comes to wr, I swing for the fences, especially early in rookie drafts. I just don't see Allen as a smart gamble.

nice list. i just can't understand this "ton of risk" with allen. is it just his speed you're referring to?

 

[BruceAlmighty]

Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.

 

[werdnoynek]

Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.

fair enough.

saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.

 

[BruceAlmighty]

Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.

fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.

I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.

 

[werdnoynek]

Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.

fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.

I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.

i think he has adequate strength to beat press coverage. that and speed isn't all you need to be successful.. his route running ability alone can create separation. he's a great route runner and great out of breaks. he consistently created separation in college but the throws were almost always late and the CB was on top of him by the time the ball was there.

i completely agree with the having a new QB statement... it's going to help him greatly... in the NFL.

 

[CalBear]

Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.

fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.

I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.

It is unlikely that Allen is going to draw Revis before, say, 2015, and then only if he's amazingly successful. It depends where he goes, of course, but rookie WRs rarely wind up being their team's WR1. There have been a total of 13 rookie WRs with 1000 receiving yards since 1960 (AJ Green in 2011--before that you have to go back to Marques Colston in 2006).

I think it's safe to say that Allen won't be AJ Green. Will he be Hakeem Nicks? Maybe.