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Keenan Allen - 4.7x forties?! (1 Viewer)

Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.
fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.
I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.
It is unlikely that Allen is going to draw Revis before, say, 2015, and then only if he's amazingly successful. It depends where he goes, of course, but rookie WRs rarely wind up being their team's WR1. There have been a total of 13 rookie WRs with 1000 receiving yards since 1960 (AJ Green in 2011--before that you have to go back to Marques Colston in 2006). I think it's safe to say that Allen won't be AJ Green. Will he be Hakeem Nicks? Maybe.
He's not a Hakeem Nicks. Nicks is a more physical receiver. Allen is more finess and10-15 pounds lighter
 
Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.
fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.
I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.
It is unlikely that Allen is going to draw Revis before, say, 2015, and then only if he's amazingly successful. It depends where he goes, of course, but rookie WRs rarely wind up being their team's WR1. There have been a total of 13 rookie WRs with 1000 receiving yards since 1960 (AJ Green in 2011--before that you have to go back to Marques Colston in 2006). I think it's safe to say that Allen won't be AJ Green. Will he be Hakeem Nicks? Maybe.
He's not a Hakeem Nicks. Nicks is a more physical receiver. Allen is more finess and10-15 pounds lighter
nicks is an inch shorter and was only 6lbs heavier at 2009 draft time.

 
Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.
fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.
I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.
It is unlikely that Allen is going to draw Revis before, say, 2015, and then only if he's amazingly successful. It depends where he goes, of course, but rookie WRs rarely wind up being their team's WR1. There have been a total of 13 rookie WRs with 1000 receiving yards since 1960 (AJ Green in 2011--before that you have to go back to Marques Colston in 2006). I think it's safe to say that Allen won't be AJ Green. Will he be Hakeem Nicks? Maybe.
He's not a Hakeem Nicks. Nicks is a more physical receiver. Allen is more finess and10-15 pounds lighter
nicks is an inch shorter and was only 6lbs heavier at 2009 draft time.
Hakeem Nicks is not a posession reciever.
 
Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.
fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.
I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.
It is unlikely that Allen is going to draw Revis before, say, 2015, and then only if he's amazingly successful. It depends where he goes, of course, but rookie WRs rarely wind up being their team's WR1. There have been a total of 13 rookie WRs with 1000 receiving yards since 1960 (AJ Green in 2011--before that you have to go back to Marques Colston in 2006). I think it's safe to say that Allen won't be AJ Green. Will he be Hakeem Nicks? Maybe.
He's not a Hakeem Nicks. Nicks is a more physical receiver. Allen is more finess and10-15 pounds lighter
nicks is an inch shorter and was only 6lbs heavier at 2009 draft time.
Hakeem Nicks is not a posession reciever.
the same could be said for allen then huh? glad we cleared that up...

 
Speed is my foremost concern but not the only one. His slender frame has me concerned about his ability to release against press coverage. He also has taken longer to return from the pcl injury than I would like. But that 4.71 is difficult for me to ignore. To put it into context, Arkansas-Pine Bluff offensive tackle Terron Armstead also ran a 4.71 and he's 6'5" and weighs 305. Lane Johnson ran a 4.72. That's two offensive line prospects that have Allen's speed. He just has too many question marks for my liking.
fair enough. saying 2 OL guys have allens speed is laughable though, if you've actually seen him play you'd know that isn't true.
I've followed Allen pretty closely since his high school days in North Carolina. He was a priority recruit for Nick Saban, although Saban wanted him as a safety. And yeah, I agree 40 times can be misleading. But my point is how will Allen defeat press man against Sherman, Haden, Peterson, Revis, Browner, Jenkins et al? They are stronger and faster. I wish he would've gone back to school. He could definitely benefit from another year of growth and a new qb. But going off of what I know about him, I'd be much more comfortable drafting another wr.
It is unlikely that Allen is going to draw Revis before, say, 2015, and then only if he's amazingly successful. It depends where he goes, of course, but rookie WRs rarely wind up being their team's WR1. There have been a total of 13 rookie WRs with 1000 receiving yards since 1960 (AJ Green in 2011--before that you have to go back to Marques Colston in 2006). I think it's safe to say that Allen won't be AJ Green. Will he be Hakeem Nicks? Maybe.
He's not a Hakeem Nicks. Nicks is a more physical receiver. Allen is more finess and10-15 pounds lighter
nicks is an inch shorter and was only 6lbs heavier at 2009 draft time.
Hakeem Nicks is not a posession reciever.
the same could be said for allen then huh? glad we cleared that up...
Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
 
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Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
Nicks had TJ Yates throwing him the ball and Hopkins had Boyd, both of whom are twice the player Maynard is. Put Allen in their situations and he could put up the same numbers if not better imo.

 
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Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
Nicks had TJ Yates throwing him the ball and Hopkins had Boyd, both of whom are twice the player Maynard is. Put Allen in their situations and he could put up the same numbers if not better imo.
If that explains the TD's (which it desn't) defend the 4.7 or the fact he's had one 100 yard recieving games in 16 games..
 
Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
Nicks had TJ Yates throwing him the ball and Hopkins had Boyd, both of whom are twice the player Maynard is. Put Allen in their situations and he could put up the same numbers if not better imo.
If that explains the TD's (which it desn't) defend the 4.7 or the fact he's had one 100 yard recieving games in 16 games..
Maybe the fact that his QBs only threw 13 TDs (9 to WRs) does something to explain the fact that Allen only caught 6. Cal was 93/124 in points per game (10th in the Pac-12), 81/124 in passing attempts (11th in the Pac-12). Cal's passing offense was terrible and it was absolutely not Allen's fault. He was the best player on the field.

 
Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
Nicks had TJ Yates throwing him the ball and Hopkins had Boyd, both of whom are twice the player Maynard is. Put Allen in their situations and he could put up the same numbers if not better imo.
If that explains the TD's (which it desn't) defend the 4.7 or the fact he's had one 100 yard recieving games in 16 games..
4.7 = injury. multiple sources explained that his knee is 100% but the muscle around it was about 85%. if he was 100% he'd probably be where everyone thought he would - around a 4.5. he's not a burner, never has been.

the fact he had one 100 yard receiving game can be chalked up to the the atrocious team and quarterback he played with imo.

 
Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
Nicks had TJ Yates throwing him the ball and Hopkins had Boyd, both of whom are twice the player Maynard is. Put Allen in their situations and he could put up the same numbers if not better imo.
If that explains the TD's (which it desn't) defend the 4.7 or the fact he's had one 100 yard recieving games in 16 games..
4.7 = injury. multiple sources explained that his knee is 100% but the muscle around it was about 85%. if he was 100% he'd probably be where everyone thought he would - around a 4.5. he's not a burner, never has been. the fact he had one 100 yard receiving game can be chalked up to the the atrocious team and quarterback he played with imo.
He was hurt late in October and skipped the combine. Seems like enough time to put up a 4.5. I always question guys who skip the combine athleticism. Just seems fishy..
 
CalBear said:
ShaHBucks said:
werdnoynek said:
ShaHBucks said:
Nicks best season in college he scored double digit TD's. Allen stop season was 6. Hell DeAndre Hopkins scored 18 last uear alone. I said he's more Boldin/shorter b-marsh/better and tall Lance Moore. He'll be good but idk about elite.
Nicks had TJ Yates throwing him the ball and Hopkins had Boyd, both of whom are twice the player Maynard is. Put Allen in their situations and he could put up the same numbers if not better imo.
If that explains the TD's (which it desn't) defend the 4.7 or the fact he's had one 100 yard recieving games in 16 games..
Maybe the fact that his QBs only threw 13 TDs (9 to WRs) does something to explain the fact that Allen only caught 6. Cal was 93/124 in points per game (10th in the Pac-12), 81/124 in passing attempts (11th in the Pac-12). Cal's passing offense was terrible and it was absolutely not Allen's fault. He was the best player on the field.
He had a chance to be the top WR to me. I can't ignore the numbers like everyone is suggesting. It's possible he's not the athlete you see on tape. We are talking about how he translate to the NFL. Idk it's just crazy how no one cares.
 
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I wouldn't say people are ignoring the numbers. He was considered to have a good chance to be the 1.01 selection before the draft process started, and now he's not considered likely to be a top 3 pick. I think his value took a hit when he couldn't work out, and he needed a strong wokout to get it back up to where it was. Obviously that didn't happen. I still like what I saw on tape and think the shortcomings in his stats are excusable. However, if I own the 1.01 and need a WR, I'm not considering him unless I trade back. Right now, my opinion of him is right with Justin Hunter and Deandre Hopkins, and behind Austin and Patterson.

 
'Suspiciously high water levels' -- is that from trying to flush a drug prior to a test? Or is it indicative of some particular drug?

 
'Suspiciously high water levels' -- is that from trying to flush a drug prior to a test? Or is it indicative of some particular drug?
This was how Charles Rogers got pinched at the Combine. The logic is to dilute the urine to the point where either thc or steroids are undetectable.
 
'Suspiciously high water levels' -- is that from trying to flush a drug prior to a test? Or is it indicative of some particular drug?
This was how Charles Rogers got pinched at the Combine. The logic is to dilute the urine to the point where either thc or steroids are undetectable.
Charles Rogers!? Rogers had multiple positive drug tests in college... this is the first time I've heard of anything of the sort regarding Allen. To compare him to Rogers is naive and ludicrous at this point. You don't get "pinched" for having a diluted sample... they just make you retake it, which they did in Allen's situation.

It doesn't take much water to pee clean and clear of anything and it's definitely not indicative of any particular substance. It just means they drank a lot of water before the test... attempting to draw conclusions on this now isn't going to get anywhere. IF he fails the second test there's a lot more to be concerned about, but at this point it's not a huge story imo.

 
And he did get pinched because its considered a positive test. Here's a link to the report: http://espn.go.com/chrismortensen/s/2003/0414/1539039.html

April 14

It's a letter no NFL player or prospect wants to receive: A positive urine test. But in the case of Michigan State receiver Charles Rogers, a consensus top-three pick in this year's draft, the positive test administered at the scouting combine in Indianapolis was labeled as "diluted urine" and not for any specific banned substance.
 
And he did get pinched because its considered a positive test. Here's a link to the report: http://espn.go.com/chrismortensen/s/2003/0414/1539039.html

April 14

It's a letter no NFL player or prospect wants to receive: A positive urine test. But in the case of Michigan State receiver Charles Rogers, a consensus top-three pick in this year's draft, the positive test administered at the scouting combine in Indianapolis was labeled as "diluted urine" and not for any specific banned substance.
where i come from pinched = arrested, you can't be arrested for a false positive. our definitions of the word are clearly different lol.

 
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I'll take care to only use it the next time a player gets arrested at the Combine for a confirmed positive. :rolleyes:

 
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I'll take care to only use it the next time a player gets arrested at the Combine for a confirmed positive. :rolleyes:
I saw Charles Rogers and pinched and just assumed you were talking about his arrest. A false positive on a drug test and automatically we're bringing up one of the most notorius drug users in NFL history?? Easy now.

 
I'll take care to only use it the next time a player gets arrested at the Combine for a confirmed positive. :rolleyes:
I saw Charles Rogers and pinched and just assumed you were talking about his arrest. A false positive on a drug test and automatically we're bringing up one of the most notorius drug users in NFL history?? Easy now.
Really?
he was notorious for being a pot head. he continuously failing drug tests throughout his college career, which continued into his nfl career. he admitted to smoking marijuana daily while recovering from his second injury which lead to him never getting back into the league. while he's no lawrence taylor, his career was highlighted by smoking pot.

 
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/324175368158322689

@AdamSchefter: Keenan Allen, the No. 1-rated WR on some boards, was red-flagged for a drug test at scouting combine in Indy and retested this month.
:doh:
Ignoring this too? Or have you done any reevaluations based on new variables?
I don't downgrade people for drinking too much water. If he actually fails a test then there may be some more concerns. This is more of a "Doh" moment than a "Damnit" moment.

 
Rotoworld:

The National Football Post's Dan Pompei reports that Chargers third-round WR Keenan Allen (knee) still isn't 100 percent healthy.
Allen tore his left PCL last October. He was a full participant at rookie minicamp early last month, so if he isn't 100 percent then he's awfully close to it. Allen ran a 4.77 forty at the Combine, and that contributed to his slide down the draft board. The Chargers reportedly think his tape says he plays at 4.55 speed. Allen will challenge for snaps immediately as a rookie.

Source: National Football Post
 
His forty time might be 4.77, but watch any tape on him and he plays far better than that.

Take advantage of all these questions and snag him in your drafts later than you should be allowed to.

 
His forty time might be 4.77, but watch any tape on him and he plays far better than that.

Take advantage of all these questions and snag him in your drafts later than you should be allowed to.
And where's that? We're nearing the bottom of the 2nd round in my 10 team draft...and he's still available. Trade up to make sure to get him?

 
His forty time might be 4.77, but watch any tape on him and he plays far better than that.

Take advantage of all these questions and snag him in your drafts later than you should be allowed to.
And where's that? We're nearing the bottom of the 2nd round in my 10 team draft...and he's still available. Trade up to make sure to get him?
Dynasty I assume. I would snatch him up anywhere in the 2nd. He has the chance to be the #1 guy next year assuming they don't resign Denario Alexander. On tape he was a 1st round guy. Injury dropped him some. I don't expect that much from him this season just because of how many WR's the Chargers have that can contribute. Floyd, Meachum, and DX could all be gone next season.

 
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His forty time might be 4.77, but watch any tape on him and he plays far better than that.

Take advantage of all these questions and snag him in your drafts later than you should be allowed to.
And where's that? We're nearing the bottom of the 2nd round in my 10 team draft...and he's still available. Trade up to make sure to get him?
He shouldn't make it out of the first round in a 12 team league in my opinion.

As has been said, he'll see time this year as their WR3 but after next year, he's at worst their WR2 and possibly their number 1 target.

 
I think his 2013 pro day numbers need to be tossed. Obviously, the Chargers did.

FWIW, here are his Junior pro day numbers.....I think they represent more what we see on tape. I'd like to see more lower body explosion but it isn't terrible.

AGILITY TESTS4.53 in the 40-yard dash…1.57 10-yard dash…2.55 20-yard dash…4.28 20-yard shuttle…11.22 60-yard shuttle…7.12 three-cone drill…35-inch vertical jump…9’7” broad jump…Bench pressed 225 pounds 17 times…32 ¼-inch arm length…9 ¾-inch hands…76 ½-inchwingspan.

 
Yup, Jr. pro day numbers are much more relevant. Although really all you need to do is watch his tape. He jumps off the screen. Plus he had a fairly bad QB throwing him the ball.

 
UKColt said:
matttyl said:
UKColt said:
His forty time might be 4.77, but watch any tape on him and he plays far better than that.

Take advantage of all these questions and snag him in your drafts later than you should be allowed to.
And where's that? We're nearing the bottom of the 2nd round in my 10 team draft...and he's still available. Trade up to make sure to get him?
He shouldn't make it out of the first round in a 12 team league in my opinion.

As has been said, he'll see time this year as their WR3 but after next year, he's at worst their WR2 and possibly their number 1 target.
A lot of his value is being able to get him later than he should be going.

 
I'm about to land him at pick #22 in my rookie draft, and then take the first defense player with the following pick (A Brown) in my 10 team IDP league.

 
Yeah, I agree on both counts. I actually have the #24 pick as well (so three picks in a row) and can take EJ Manuel, Jared Cook (free agent at end of year), or any other rookie IDP. My mind is spinning with all the options.

 
Rotoworld:

Chargers third-round WR Keenan Allen (knee) didn't appear limited at all during Tuesday's minicamp.
It's now been eight months since the Cal product tore his left PCL. Per the Union-Tribune, Allen "ran faster" and "cut more sharply" than he did at last month's rookie minicamp. He's the fourth wideout behind Danario Alexander, Malcom Floyd and Vincent Brown right now, but has the talent to climb.


Source: Union-Tribune San Diego
 
Warrior said:
Would anyone touch this guy in a super-deep re-draft?
I could see taking him as a WR5 or 6. It's going to take an injury or 2 for him to be on the field consistently. Given the injury history of the Charger WR's I don't think it's that far fetched. He's a much more valuable player in dynasty IMO since he has a chance of starting next season if they don't resign Danario Alexander.

 
from NFL.com

Keenan Allen: I want to start for San Diego Chargers

By Marc Sessler

Around the League Writer

Eight months removed from tearing his posterior cruciate ligament, Keenan Allen spent the final day of San Diego Chargers minicamp healthy and lined up with the first team. He hopes that trend continues when San Diego gathers for training camp on July 25.

"I want to be a starter," Allen told Kevin Acee of U-T San Diego. "I don't want to watch. I want to be part of the moment. I don't want to watch it."

Unlike the two Chargers rookies drafted before him -- offensive tackle D.J. Fluker and inside linebacker Manti Te'o -- Allen has been brought along more slowly. Coach Mike McCoy worked the former Cal wideout into first-team action with Vincent Brown and Malcom Floyd at minicamp, but Allen's promotion was fueled by undisclosed injuries to Danario Alexander and slot man Eddie Royal.

Today, it's Brown -- not Allen -- who stands a better chance of starting opposite Alexander. McCoy said earlier this month he expects Brown to be "without a doubt" a big part of his offense.

The 6-foot-2 Allen disappointed with a 4.77-second 40-yard dash time at his pro day, but San Diego reportedly sees him playing closer to 4.55 on the field. He was praised for his smooth route running and "powerful hands" during minicamp.

Allen might not start out of the gate, but with the disappointing Robert Meachem still buried on the depth chart, he's a strong bet to contribute early for the Chargers. (Just no more Raiders hats, please.)

Follow Marc Sessler on Twitter @MarcSesslerNFL.

 
It appears the knee injury was the cause of the primary reason for the low-forty time.

Right now Allen says he's about 80% so its doubtful he'll be 100% for training camp that begins July 24th and he's a rookie going up against veterans so I don't see any way he begins the season as a starter. I think he'll have to work his way into the starting line-up and he has a good shot to be starting at the end of the year.

I like Keenan and was suprised he fell to the third round. I think the Chargers got a good one but I don't see big numbers this year.

What do others think about San Deigo's rookie WR Keenan Allen and what sort of numbers do they see from him this year?

 

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