Kellen Winslow (1 Viewer)

[eefflrat]

I don't own winslow in my league, and I believe he has been a talented player. However, here's a guy asking to renegotiate his contract with 3 years left on it and I just can't see why he deserves one. I could be wrong, but the guy foolishly almost cost himself a career, and the browns paid him even though they didn't have to. I can understand if this guy was healthy his whole career, or only had 1 injury, but because of his own stupidity he has had 4 surgeries and he's demanding a new deal.

Does anybody else see any reason the browns should renegotiate with this guy?

 

[No. 16]

He restructured his contract for beans, when he was not healthy. The Browns didn't do Winslow any favors.... they wanted to keep a potentially valuable commodity in Winslow so they restructured his deal.

Now he's finally living up to his draft status and should get paid like a Top TE in the league.

 

[eefflrat]

He restructured his contract for beans, when he was not healthy. The Browns didn't do Winslow any favors.... they wanted to keep a potentially valuable commodity in Winslow so they restructured his deal.Now he's finally living up to his draft status and should get paid like a Top TE in the league.

beans, is 4.4 Million a year beans for a TE? They paid him his first two years didn't they? They didn't have to after he f'd up.10/11/2005: Signed a contract extension through 2010. The deal is heavily incentive laden. 2008: $4 million, 2009: $4.5 million, 2010: $4.75 million, 2011: Free Agent

 

[Football Jones]

You kind of wonder about this guy, but as long as he's healthy & playing, he's the most talented TE on the board, bar none (FF-wise), IMO. If it wasn't for the concern about his knees, he'd easily be the # 1 ranked TE in dynasty leagues, but I think people forget he hasn't missed a game in 2 years. Just 24 years old & in an offense that's about to explode (not implode), he's a real weapon in PPR leagues.

Gates & Witten obviously deserve mention as the best TE, but Gates is 3 years older & I'm a little leery that Witten simply had the "career year syndrome" in '07 (even though he's an outstanding TE).

edited for grammar

 

[Drop]

Is there any official word on this or is it still in the speculation stage? I just haven't seen any reports of him demanding anything, only assumptions being made by those with no inside information.

 

[cstu]

While I love his production, he's a constant concern because he seems like a walking time bomb. It's really a moot point point though since it's next to impossible to trade at anything near his value.

 

[TheFanatic]

Considering he can be cut at anytime, I think this is the wise move on his part in terms of the league being a business.

He renegotiated for a purely incentive laden contract and lived up to that. If it were me, after two stud years, I would be asking to renegotiate too. Particularly with potentially bad knees. He may not get another chance to negotiate for a fat signing bonus.

That being said, I owned the guy in two leagues. Traded him in one and standing pat in the other. Gore and Winslow for Westbrook was just too good to pass up in a ppr...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Are you serious? How did my post get deleted? It was a quote straight from Winslow himself...

 

[cstu]

Are you serious? How did my post get deleted? It was a quote straight from Winslow himself...

Winslow tried to circumvent the language so the guy will have a nice season.

 

[Rozelle]

Drew Rosenhaus ... enough said

 

[Horsec]

have you checked his targets?

 

[TopDawg]

Winslow

... About the Browns

He may not admit it, but Kellen Winslow really wanted a new contract after he saw Dallas Clark sign a six-year, $42 million deal with Indianapolis. The tight end receives $27 million in the first three years and the average salary in the deal can be close to $7 million annually -- making him the highest paid player at that position. It also has about $20 million guaranteed. Clark has never made a Pro Bowl and he caught 58 passes (11 for TDs) last season. Winslow believes he's a better player than Clark, and deserves to be paid like it.

You can debate the merits of the two players. Winslow (82 catches) is the superior receiver. Clark is more versatile. He also plays the slot and even serves as a blocking back. He did not make the Pro Bowl, Winslow did as an alternate. But the key fact is Clark was in the final year of his contract! He was headed to free agency when the Colts tagged him as a franchise player, then signed him to the new deal a few days later. He took the risk of playing in the final year of his contract to reach free agency and position himself for a huge contract.

For Winslow, the problem is he has three years left on his contract at about $4 million annually. Plus, he was paid $11.6 million in the first two years when he played a grand total of two games. His injury in the first season was football related, the broken leg not his fault. But in 2005 he had the terrible motorcycle accident. The Browns actually could have cut him at some point; instead they re-worked his contract. He was paid $2 million in 2006 and $2 million in 2007. That makes $15.6 million over four years in which he has played two years and two games. The Browns believe they have been fair and will talk about an extension at some point. But the team believes the Clark comparison does not apply since Winslow is not close to free agency -- which will come after 2010.

Winslow missing some workouts is not a big deal because he is recovering from his fourth knee surgery. That is another reason he wants a new deal now -- he knows his body has already taken a beating. Of course, it was the motorcycle accident that started the knee problems. If Winslow shows up and plays well again this season, the Browns probably will give him a new deal. But they won't make any major revisions now.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Gladly traded him a few weeks ago (before this contract crap came up) because I'm not willing to bet my dynasty future on a guy playing through a lot of pain. You can only do that for so long, I don't care how tough you are. That, in addition to Stallworth (a more viable option to take touches than Jurevicious) made me think that his value was at it's peak. Sold, and it's one less ? in the future for me.

 

[cstu]

Gladly traded him a few weeks ago (before this contract crap came up) because I'm not willing to bet my dynasty future on a guy playing through a lot of pain. You can only do that for so long, I don't care how tough you are. That, in addition to Stallworth (a more viable option to take touches than Jurevicious) made me think that his value was at it's peak. Sold, and it's one less ? in the future for me.

What did you get for him?

 

[The Kansas Comet]

Winslow

... About the Browns

Winslow missing some workouts is not a big deal because he is recovering from his fourth knee surgery. That is another reason he wants a new deal now -- he knows his body has already taken a beating. Of course, it was the motorcycle accident that started the knee problems. If Winslow shows up and plays well again this season, the Browns probably will give him a new deal. But they won't make any major revisions now.

Why would any NFL team renegotiate with a guy with that many years left on his deal and that many knee surgeries? I know Winslow has performed well the last two seasons, but he put himself in this position. The Browns would be stupid to re-do his deal based on Winslow's health and the precedent it would set.

 

[vandyt]

He restructured his contract for beans, when he was not healthy. The Browns didn't do Winslow any favors.... they wanted to keep a potentially valuable commodity in Winslow so they restructured his deal.

Are you thinking that an NFL team can "restructure" a players contract without the player's consent? The Browns AND Winslow agreed to restructure it, and it was mutually beneficial. Winslow made more money after the restructuring than he would have otherwise. His original contract was heavy on escalators that he never would have hit given his leg injuries during his first couple years.

 

[nxmehta]

Is there any official word on this or is it still in the speculation stage? I just haven't seen any reports of him demanding anything, only assumptions being made by those with no inside information.

DING! We have a winner.The media really has nothing to write about this time of year. If Winslow was at the Browns' OTAs he wouldn't be doing a damn thing because he's rehabbing. All the media has to go off of is a quote from a couple of months ago where Winslow was like, yeah I'd like a new contract.

Let's wait this one out a bit?

 

[No. 16]

He restructured his contract for beans, when he was not healthy. The Browns didn't do Winslow any favors.... they wanted to keep a potentially valuable commodity in Winslow so they restructured his deal.

Are you thinking that an NFL team can "restructure" a players contract without the player's consent? The Browns AND Winslow agreed to restructure it, and it was mutually beneficial. Winslow made more money after the restructuring than he would have otherwise. His original contract was heavy on escalators that he never would have hit given his leg injuries during his first couple years.

Please.... the Browns had Winslow at their mercy. They did what was best for their franchise financially, no matter how they try to spin it as helping Winslow out. They had two choices 1) void his contract, watch him rehab, and become a star somewhere else, making their draft pick a waste or 2) restructure the deal so that Winslow will stay with the team through rehab and they could potentially reap the benefits. Obviously they made the smart decision and didn't let a potentially valuable commodity slip away. Now he's played very, very well and become a premier TE in the NFL. It's time they pay him like one. I don't understand why some fans get pissy when players out performs their contract and want a new deal, but when a player under performs their contract they don't bat an eye when teams release them or make them restructure for less.

 

[Drew RosenhausFan]

Drew Rosenhaus ... enough said

Yeah, thats real mature

 

[Rozelle]

Drew Rosenhaus ... enough said

Yeah, thats real mature

Often times, perception is reality.

 

[TheFanatic]

Gladly traded him a few weeks ago (before this contract crap came up) because I'm not willing to bet my dynasty future on a guy playing through a lot of pain. You can only do that for so long, I don't care how tough you are. That, in addition to Stallworth (a more viable option to take touches than Jurevicious) made me think that his value was at it's peak. Sold, and it's one less ? in the future for me.

Actually under the current deal he is money because it is extremely incentive laden. He doesn't play, and doesn't play well, then he doesn't make much. Once he signed that deal I targeted (and got) him in every league I was in. I worry that once he does sign the next contract that he will sit while in pain rather than play through it without the monetary incentive to do so. Maybe playing through the pain the last two years taught him something But I sort of doubt it. As an owner of KWII still in my main league I sure hope he doesn't get a new deal this year and has to go earn the new deal by playing lights out in 2008. After that, tho I would be looking to dump him high....

 

[womb]

Tony Romo has 1 year and gets Brady-like money, and Winslow does not deserve a shot for Clark like money? Give me a break. He is not pissing me off at all. Cleveland may not come to terms, but he deserves to ask for a re-negotiation.

 

[Ted Lange as your Bartender]

I don't understand why some fans get pissy when players out performs their contract and want a new deal, but when a player under performs their contract they don't bat an eye when teams release them or make them restructure for less.

You really don't understand why? It's not fans being "pissy", it's that in a salary capped environment, the fans' best interests (i.e. their team winning a championship) are more closely intertwined with management's agenda (i.e. get as many talented players on the team at less than market value) than they are with the players (i.e. make as much money as possible as quickly as possible).Winslow getting more money, while nice for Winslow and his family, doesn't help the fans and their rooting interests one bit, since he'll be on the team anyway. OTOH, being able to cut underperforming players that aren't getting guaranteed money, while bad for the players, is GREAT for fans.

 

[No. 16]

I don't understand why some fans get pissy when players out performs their contract and want a new deal, but when a player under performs their contract they don't bat an eye when teams release them or make them restructure for less.

You really don't understand why? It's not fans being "pissy", it's that in a salary capped environment, the fans' best interests (i.e. their team winning a championship) are more closely intertwined with management's agenda (i.e. get as many talented players on the team at less than market value) than they are with the players (i.e. make as much money as possible as quickly as possible).Winslow getting more money, while nice for Winslow and his family, doesn't help the fans and their rooting interests one bit, since he'll be on the team anyway. OTOH, being able to cut underperforming players that aren't getting guaranteed money, while bad for the players, is GREAT for fans.

I'd want probably the BEST OFFENSIVE weapon on my team happy, so that he can focus on playing football instead of holding out and causing a disturbance. People question Winslow's character, but he plays 100% on the football field at all times and just the fact that we are commenting on SPECULATION... rather than concrete demands on a restructure should speak volumes of Winslow. We're not talking about some 1 year wonder who became a mediocre player... we are talking about a player with a great pedigree: HOF father, highly productive in college, high draft pick, PREMIER TE in the NFL the past 2 years. This is what was expected of him. If I were a Browns fan, I'd want to make him happy. Like you said... in the end if he ever under performs they can always cut him or restructure the contract. That's the way the NFL goes... as a fan I can live with it if one of the best in the NFL at his position wants to get paid like it.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I don't understand why some fans get pissy when players out performs their contract and want a new deal, but when a player under performs their contract they don't bat an eye when teams release them or make them restructure for less.

You really don't understand why? It's not fans being "pissy", it's that in a salary capped environment, the fans' best interests (i.e. their team winning a championship) are more closely intertwined with management's agenda (i.e. get as many talented players on the team at less than market value) than they are with the players (i.e. make as much money as possible as quickly as possible).

Winslow getting more money, while nice for Winslow and his family, doesn't help the fans and their rooting interests one bit, since he'll be on the team anyway. OTOH, being able to cut underperforming players that aren't getting guaranteed money, while bad for the players, is GREAT for fans.

I'd want probably the BEST OFFENSIVE weapon on my team happy, so that he can focus on playing football instead of holding out and causing a disturbance. People question Winslow's character, but he plays 100% on the football field at all times and just the fact that we are commenting on SPECULATION... rather than concrete demands on a restructure should speak volumes of Winslow. We're not talking about some 1 year wonder who became a mediocre player... we are talking about a player with a great pedigree: HOF father, highly productive in college, high draft pick, PREMIER TE in the NFL the past 2 years. This is what was expected of him.

If I were a Browns fan, I'd want to make him happy. Like you said... in the end if he ever under performs they can always cut him or restructure the contract. That's the way the NFL goes... as a fan I can live with it if one of the best in the NFL at his position wants to get paid like it.

I was talking about the reasons I got out from under him before this started. His situation (physically, addition of Stallworth) is a bigger red-flag for me than a contract problem, even if it were confirmed.

 

[No. 16]

I was talking about the reasons I got out from under him before this started. His situation (physically, addition of Stallworth) is a bigger red-flag for me than a contract problem, even if it were confirmed.

Which are legit concerns, but I think others just hate when athletes ask for more money.

 

[TheFanatic]

I was talking about the reasons I got out from under him before this started. His situation (physically, addition of Stallworth) is a bigger red-flag for me than a contract problem, even if it were confirmed.

I'm not so sure you should be worrying about Stallworth. Joe Juravicious might want to but I dont think that KWII needs to. Well, unless Donte grows 5 inches and gains 50 pounds and of course improves his pass catching ability then I would be worried. Until then I think that Stallworth is just there to stretch the field, not pull down that short, hard yardage stuff that Winslow does....

 

[switz]

I was talking about the reasons I got out from under him before this started. His situation (physically, addition of Stallworth) is a bigger red-flag for me than a contract problem, even if it were confirmed.

I'm not so sure you should be worrying about Stallworth. Joe Juravicious might want to but I dont think that KWII needs to. Well, unless Donte grows 5 inches and gains 50 pounds and of course improves his pass catching ability then I would be worried. Until then I think that Stallworth is just there to stretch the field, not pull down that short, hard yardage stuff that Winslow does....

I actually think having Stallworth there will be good for Winslow, as it will open up the middle of the field a little bit more. Stallwort is a great outside deep receiver, and will demand some respect. But he is not going to take much away from Winslow at all.As for the knee, from what I understand this was just a cleanup procedure, nothing major at all.

I also don't see him really holding out this season.

 

[vandyt]

He restructured his contract for beans, when he was not healthy. The Browns didn't do Winslow any favors.... they wanted to keep a potentially valuable commodity in Winslow so they restructured his deal.

Are you thinking that an NFL team can "restructure" a players contract without the player's consent?

The Browns AND Winslow agreed to restructure it, and it was mutually beneficial. Winslow made more money after the restructuring than he would have otherwise. His original contract was heavy on escalators that he never would have hit given his leg injuries during his first couple years.

Please.... the Browns had Winslow at their mercy. They did what was best for their franchise financially, no matter how they try to spin it as helping Winslow out. They had two choices 1) void his contract, watch him rehab, and become a star somewhere else, making their draft pick a waste or 2) restructure the deal so that Winslow will stay with the team through rehab and they could potentially reap the benefits. Obviously they made the smart decision and didn't let a potentially valuable commodity slip away.

Now he's played very, very well and become a premier TE in the NFL. It's time they pay him like one.

I don't understand why some fans get pissy when players out performs their contract and want a new deal, but when a player under performs their contract they don't bat an eye when teams release them or make them restructure for less.

Because thats the type of situation the players agreed to when their union signed the CBA?

 

[No. 16]

He restructured his contract for beans, when he was not healthy. The Browns didn't do Winslow any favors.... they wanted to keep a potentially valuable commodity in Winslow so they restructured his deal.

Are you thinking that an NFL team can "restructure" a players contract without the player's consent?

The Browns AND Winslow agreed to restructure it, and it was mutually beneficial. Winslow made more money after the restructuring than he would have otherwise. His original contract was heavy on escalators that he never would have hit given his leg injuries during his first couple years.

Please.... the Browns had Winslow at their mercy. They did what was best for their franchise financially, no matter how they try to spin it as helping Winslow out. They had two choices 1) void his contract, watch him rehab, and become a star somewhere else, making their draft pick a waste or 2) restructure the deal so that Winslow will stay with the team through rehab and they could potentially reap the benefits. Obviously they made the smart decision and didn't let a potentially valuable commodity slip away.

Now he's played very, very well and become a premier TE in the NFL. It's time they pay him like one.

I don't understand why some fans get pissy when players out performs their contract and want a new deal, but when a player under performs their contract they don't bat an eye when teams release them or make them restructure for less.

Because thats the type of situation the players agreed to when their union signed the CBA?

So they have every right to "hold out" and make a distraction until they get restructured. If they want to be fined for missing camp... they know the risk they are taking.

Hey guys I understand just as much as you do that the players and owners agreed upon the CBA. That's why I have no problems with players "holding out" to get compensated. They're playing within the rules of the CBA that they signed. If owners wanted to end hold-outs and all this restructuring business, they'd make contract guaranteed. Since they don't players can hold out, #####, whine, or whatever until they get paid fairly.

It doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[TheFanatic]

Same old debate that we have every offseason in the SP.

Side A: You signed the contract - you honor it - That's the way it is where I work.

Side B: This is the NFL, not where you work. The player can be cut at any time and the contract is negated so threatening to hold out for a new deal is perfectly understandable

















But most of all:

 

[Brownsfan07]

I don't own winslow in my league, and I believe he has been a talented player. However, here's a guy asking to renegotiate his contract with 3 years left on it and I just can't see why he deserves one. I could be wrong, but the guy foolishly almost cost himself a career, and the browns paid him even though they didn't have to. I can understand if this guy was healthy his whole career, or only had 1 injury, but because of his own stupidity he has had 4 surgeries and he's demanding a new deal. Does anybody else see any reason the browns should renegotiate with this guy?

man, shut that flap!he deserves it because he has fought the extreme pain in that knee and still played with passion!i see the Kellen sr in him, as he is just as tough as his dad!imagine what Kellen sr had to o through in that game against Miami.literally had to be carried off the field due to extreme fatigue, and yet he was brave as hell! i love my boy Kellen!do not talk smack about him unless you can play tight end better than a Winslow!

 

[wadegarrett]

Browns Winslow to attend minicamp

Posted by Mary Kay Cabot May 21, 2008 15:31PM

Cleveland.com

Winslow's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said on YouTube Wednesday that Winslow will attend the mandatory June minicamp and will be at training camp in July.

Winslow is not attending the 12 voluntary organized team activities, which are in the second of three weeks.

"These are voluntary activities,'' Rosenhaus said. "They are not mandatory, and a player has a right to train on his own. Kellen is coming off of an off-season knee surgery, and he is doing his rehabilitation and his training with a very fine trainer in his hometown of San Diego. He will be at the Browns mandatory mini-camp and he will be at the mandatory training camp."

Winslow underwent an offseason scope to repair his damaged right knee. It was at least the fourth surgery on the knee since his motorcycle accident in May of 2005. He's had surgery to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament and kneecap damage; a staph infection cleaned out; and microfracture surgery to spur the growth of a cartilage-like substance in the knee.

"Kellen's going to be ready to go and everything should be just fine with him,'' said Rosenhaus. "We're looking forward to him getting back to Cleveland for the mandatory mini-camp later on this month.''

Rosenhaus, who is seeking a new deal for Winslow, also questioned why the media was making a big deal out of Winslow not being at OTAs. But reached last week by phone to ask why his client wasn't attending, Rosenhaus said, "I will have no comment on Kellen's situation.'' When given the chance, he did nothing to eliminate speculation that it could be contract-related. Furthermore, the Browns said they didn't know the reason. Coach Romeo Crennel re-iterated Wednesday that he hasn't heard from Winslow and still doesn't know why he's not here.

"What's the big to-do?'' Rosenhaus said on the video. "Guys have the opportunity to choose whether they want to go to these voluntary functions, and there shouldn't be so much scrutiny on players who choose to work out on their own."

Even though the sessions are considered voluntary, all players attend unless they have a good reason. Even most of the Browns injured players, such as Steve Heiden (back), Joe Jurevicius (knee) and Gary Baxter (knees) are here rehabbing with the team. The only other player rehabbing on his own is LeCharles Bentley, who's working out in Arizona.

Link

 

[Rozelle]

Good Deal