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Knee Defender™ (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter johnnycakes
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Rayderr
Footballguy
Many airlines have switched to letting their preferred flyers get first shot at them.AirTran AirwaysAdvance booking: First come, first served – anyone may book any time between the ticket purchase and day of travelCharge: $20 each way (includes all legs of each journey)At the airport: Sure — if there’s anything leftTip:AirTran is notorious for its stingy seat pitch in its regular coach seats — as little as 30 inches on its Boeing 717s. Pay the $20 — if there's any room left by the time you book, that is.Alaska AirlinesAdvance booking: Purchasing a Full Flex ticket? (Those are the really pricey, full fare ones.) Are you an MVP or MVP Gold member? You’re goodCharge: NoAt the airport: Any customer can request or select (from a kiosk), based on availability.American AirlinesAdvance booking: AAirpass members, AAadvantage Platinum and Gold members, other top tier oneworld alliance members; those traveling on certain unrestricted faresCharge: NoneAt the airport: First come, first served — passengers may assign themselves exit row seats using the self check-in kiosks as well as by request in person from an agent.Continental AirlinesAdvance booking: Passengers may request to be assigned an exit row seat any time between booking and day of travel — provided they call and speak to an agent and make the case as to why they should get the seat (i.e. “I’m tall!")Charge: NoneAt the airport: First-come, first-served — you may select exit row seating from a seat map on the self check-in kiosks, as well as by making your request in person.Delta Air LinesAdvance booking: Open to all, and you don’t even have to ask — passengers can select exit row seats for themselves when booking on delta.comCharge: NoneAt the airport: First come, first-served. Self check-in kiosks will allow you to select exit row seating.Frontier AirlinesAdvance booking: NoCharge: NoneAt the airport: Yes, based on availability; you must request from an agentTip: As with the other airlines that follow this policy, to the early airport-check-ins on the day of travel go the spoils.Hawaiian AirAdvance booking: NoCharge: NoAt the airport: First come, first served at check-in or the gate — Hawaiian Air has self-check-in available at Honolulu, but the system will not allow you to seat yourself in an exit row.JetBlue AirwaysCharge: $10 or $20 each way, depending on the length of flight (this includes six rows of seating at the front of the planeAdvance booking: Anyone willing to pay has access to inventory online or over the phone, and can change their seat at any time before their flightAt the airport: First come, first served on remaining seatsTip: Does the online seat map say everything's all booked up? Just get to the airport early on the day of travel and use the self check-in kiosks, where the seat map often looks very different (that is to say, wide open).Northwest AirlinesAdvance booking: 24 hours prior to departure, online or using airport kioskCharge: $5 to $35 per flight each way (each connecting flight incurs a separate fee)At the airport: First come, first-served at time of departure if there are unused exit row seats, with no chargeTip: WorldPerks Elite and SkyTeam Elite members can select exit-row seats free of charge on nwa.com or through a Northwest self-service check-in kiosk 24 hours prior to departure.Southwest AirlinesAdvance booking: NoCharge: Not exactlyAt the airport: First boarded, first servedTip: Southwest, as we all know, doesn't assign seats, but if you buy a higher-priced "Business Select" fare you get to board the plane in the first portion of the 'A' boarding group, so your chances of grabbing an exit row are greatly enhanced. You also get a free cocktail and other perks.Spirit AirlinesAdvance booking: NoCharge: NoAt the airport: First come, first servedTip: On some legs, the former business class cabin (once called Spirit Plus, it is now known as Big Front Seat and offers no upgrades beyond a more spacious seat) can be cheaper than regular coach fares — a June fare from LaGuardia to Detroit was $5 less in BFS. Go figure!United AirlinesAdvance booking: Elite Mileage Plus members (Premier, Premier Executive, and 1K) only. However, Because exit rows are part of United’s Economy Plus seating — now available for purchase any time — regular types can buy themselves at least a little more space (from 3 inches to 5 inches more than typical) and attempt to grab for the grand prize once at the airportCharge: Free to Elites; for everyone else, because exit rows are part of Economy Plus, pricing varies. For example, the price is $14 for a short hop from Denver, but $61 on Denver-Honolulu flightsAt the airport: Oddly, the only chance for someone who has purchased Economy Plus to change their seat to the exit row is at the gate, at the agent’s discretion. Of course, Elites are excluded from thisTip: Economy Plus is sold until it’s full — you may buy all the way up to the gate.US AirwaysAdvance booking: Seats are "exclusively reserved" for Dividend Miles Preferred customersCharge: NoneAt the airport: Everyone else takes their chances at check-in, or at the gateTip: From May 7, 2008, the airline is charging from $5 to $35 for aisle and window seats up front. Similar to Northwest's scheme, the Choice Seats program will differ only in that passengers may not book until 24 hours before the flight, and only via Web Check-in (these seats will not be sold at the airport). Confused? We are too.Virgin AmericaAdvance booking: First come, first served at time of booking, can purchase any timeCharge: $25 (this goes for bulkhead seats as well)At the airport: Same — based on availability, either at machines or at check-inTip: Leg room-lovers prefer the bulkhead to the exit row — there's a little more space in front of you, and the cost is the same.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Oh right, this argument.
When airplanes stop providing reclinable seats, I'll stop reclining. If you're sitting behind me and prefer I don't recline, you're invited to ask the entire line of seats in front of me to stop reclining as well so the person in front of me isn't inconvenienced as the only person besides myself who doesn't get to recline.
Signed,
a 6' tall guy with long legs who doesn't whine when the person in front of me reclines.
When airplanes stop providing reclinable seats, I'll stop reclining. If you're sitting behind me and prefer I don't recline, you're invited to ask the entire line of seats in front of me to stop reclining as well so the person in front of me isn't inconvenienced as the only person besides myself who doesn't get to recline.
Signed,
a 6' tall guy with long legs who doesn't whine when the person in front of me reclines.
El Floppo
Footballguy
You're not this dim, culdeus.
BigJohn
Footballguy
I was actually rounding up. He was <2. The trip was in Feb, his birthday is in August. It was a crowded flight. My wife and son were in the middle seat. It was a 6 hour flight. He actually slept on her for the first few hours. After that he was good and quiet, but he would move around some and every once in awhile would nudge her seat. Nothing was ever too severe, and my wife even said "sorry" the first few times this woman spun her head around. She just wouldn't stop. She had no desire to help alleviate the problem, just kept spinning around and glaring.And, I'm over 6 feet, so putting him on my lap would have been even worse since her #####-### daughter in front of me was also reclined.
Tiny Dancer
Footballguy
My dream would be if the seats did not recline and the tray tables all had little pillows that I could put my head on.
moleculo
Footballguy
Define obvious problem. Am I expected to break out a ruler and measure how many inches your knees are from the seat? What if you are slouching? Or, are you proposing I make an estimate on the basis of how tall I think you are, even though you are sitting? What if there is no kid on your lap when I check, by one appears later on, say, after the seatbelt light goes off?
bigbottom
Footballguy
Do you have a really short, stubby torso?
Thats just it. Assume you will inconvenience the person behind you. How you proceed with that knowledge is up to you. But no more wondering if it is an inconvenience. You may decide that your comfort is more important than your fellow traveler's, but don't assume that everything is fine if you decide to recline your chair as a god-given right.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Basically legs, arms, neck and noggin.
Reaper
Footballguy
I have traveled a lot and in all my travels I have never ever ever seen someone look back and ask permission to recline their seat.... Ridiculous IMO.Every flight I'm on the plane takes off and 95% of the people simply recline their seat. As the pilot I just spoke to said, It's your seat RECLINE IT!!!! If the person behind you has an issue, it's on them to bring it up and most of the time the recliner will simply adjust his seat with no problem.
Reaper
Footballguy
I'd suggest you research the distance between a reclined seat and the seat behind it and ALWAYS assume that this is the distance you will be dealing with and deal with it as best you can.For people who this is a major issue for you have to do your best to secure a seat with more room or suck it up...The inconvenience to me is having a seat made to recline but, can't because some guy wants to play solitaire his lap top.
Thorn
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
Exactly.I don't understand why people are refusing to ask the person ahead of them to move the seat up.
BigJohn
Footballguy
Where exactly did I say you should ask permission? I'm coming at this argument from a very specific direction because this actually happened to me. I have never had issue with someone leaning a seat back when I am the only one in the seat. I'm a big guy and it definitely cramps my area, but I just let it go. The rub I have is the fact that my wife had my kid in her lap and the stupid #### in front of her still felt that it was not only prudent, but necessary to recline all the way back. And then be incredibly rude when the 18 month old couldn't sit perfectly still for 6 hours. Get over yourselves.Common sense and courtesy are truly dying in this country and it really sucks. People feel it's their Go-given right to not use their brain. Pathetic.
bigbottom
Footballguy
I wonder if the person sitting next to your wife thought having a toddler as a lap child was discourteous.
BigJohn
Footballguy
BigJohn
Footballguy
Buying an extra seat for a kid is a lot more expensive that putting your seat up. You wanna buy the ticket? I'll take it.ETA - sorry, misread your question. In this case, the guy sitting next to my wife was just as disgusted as we were and actually played games with my son for awhile.
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I do assume that most people will have no consideration for the people behind them. Oddly enough it does not happen as frequently as you might expect. I think most business travelers understand. Its the folks who are infrequent travelers that tend to assume their comfort is more important than anyone else's.Its not that big a deal to me when it happens. Its your "right" to recline. Its my right to keep my legs/knees where they are.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Bull####.
bigbottom
Footballguy
If you're too cheap to buy a seat for your toddler, and are okay with burdening your wife and being discourteous to neighboring passengers, so be it. But it takes a lot of the impact out of your rant that courtesy is "truly dying in this country."
Rayderr
Footballguy
I usually do. And only in 2 cases has the person ever refused. and one of them was a major league ###hole. Not only does he recline the seat back, but he put his leg and foot (with his shoe off) on the armrest in front of him (aisle seats.) Also, because he got on the plane late (they were waiting for him before closing the door) his carryon was places in the over head bin in the very front of the plane and he was second to last row (I was last row.) So as soon as the plane came to a stop on the ground, the guy jumps and runs (literally, runs) down the aisle to get his bag, bumping into several people.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Shortly after everyone is seated, I get my neighbor's attention and then lick the armrest.
bigbottom
Footballguy
On my list as well.
Didn't you see that I put a booger there already?
Bogeys
Footballguy
Flew from DFW to Tokyo in coach. I am a little over 6'4" and I had the bulkhead aisle that had nothing in front of it (aisle into business class) so had all the legroom in the world and was looking forward to getting some sleep on the plane. Lap child next to me probably 18 months or so would grab at my shoulder/arm just often enough I really never got any sleep. Mother was apologetic and the child really was well behaved otherwise so that part didn't bother me and I ended up playing peekaboo with the little girl for a time to help keep her occupied. I don't really think it was discourteous, but I really wish that the airlines would have an adults only part of the plane and a family section. Not that all adults act any better than children a lot of the time, but at least I could have gotten the flight attendent involved for another adult keeping me from sleeping.Oh, and I did recline most of the way on the flight.
BigJohn
Footballguy
Too cheap? Round trip would have been over $700. If you're in a financial position to spend $700 that you don't have to, I'm truly happy for you.
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Tiny Dancer
Footballguy
This seems like an appropriate thread to bring up my idea to have the beverage cart installed on the ceiling so as not to block the aisle. Why hasn't this happened yet?
moleculo
Footballguy
I'm glad to hear that for the most part, people will help you out. I think that's how is should work. I would agree that the guy in your story is an #######, and that certainly isn't what I would condone.
Reaper
Footballguy
Whenever I traveled with my toddler I always put MYSELF in the position as the potential Disruptor..... I knew that at a moments notice I could have an uncomfortable kid screaming bloody murder or being overly jumpy.I make sure my toddler stays off the seat in front of her as best I can, wether he decides to recline HIS seat or not....
I have also bought an extra seat after year 1 after reading up on toddler safety on a plane and I simply haven't had an issue.
That's just me - I'm sure I wasn't nearly as forgiving when I was young and single when it comes to kids on a plane but, now with kids, If they are my kids I do my best to accomadate everyone around me and if they are someone elses kids I do my best to understand and help out.
All with Seats Reclined.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Clearly, your rant about the death of courtesy in America is little more than empty words.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Genius!
Bogeys
Footballguy
I already have to duck on the smaller planes...leave my head room alone you heathens.
Reaper
Footballguy
You're just a few months away from paying for a seat anyway......Most of your problems will soon be over
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
LOOK AT ME! I FLY COACH! 
LC512
Footballguy
Lots of animosity here.
I'm 6'3" with long legs, but I've found most people fairly courteous about leaning the seat back. I get leaned back on maybe 1/3 of the time, and that's probably high. Not sure if because of my size people see me and are cognizant, or what.
When people do it, it is what it is... the seats recline by design, so what are you going to do? I generally don't lean back if the person in front of me does, but if they do I'll lean back, unless it's the off chance that there's a dude sitting behind me that's even taller than I am - in which case I'll lean back maybe 1/3 of the way so we can all share the pain somewhat equally.
I'm sure like most I always look for an exit row or a front row. But 90% of the time (I'm in Texas so SWA is the norm) those rows are full of 5'7" squirrely looking guys, or old women. That's a pet peeve of mine, but again, the airline doesn't enforce any size limit or anything for those rows... what are you going to do?
On the rare occasion where I'm stuck in a row that doesn't lean back, and the person in front of me does... it's pretty much SOL for both of us. My knees are going to be in the back of his seat (nothing I can do about it). In that case I'll ask them to move up half way as a compromise, and rarely am told no.
Did have one time where the guy in front apparently took issue with the unavoidable fact that my knees were in his back, and started slamming back and forth in his seat - quite violently, like a 5 year old child. It was quite the scene. I mean as hard as he could, trying to Nancy Kerrigan my ###. After about ten of them, I popped the back of his seat with my palm as hard as I can. Guy threw a fit, called the flight attendant over, and the entire crowd around us told the flight attendant what happened. The guy in front got a heavy, heavy earful from the flaming gay flight attendant, turned red face, sat up, and didn't say a word the rest of the flight. Awesome.
I've always thought it was an amazing phenomenon how human beings turn on one another in airports/airplanes. It's like societal rules and courtesies just completely break down.
I'm 6'3" with long legs, but I've found most people fairly courteous about leaning the seat back. I get leaned back on maybe 1/3 of the time, and that's probably high. Not sure if because of my size people see me and are cognizant, or what.
When people do it, it is what it is... the seats recline by design, so what are you going to do? I generally don't lean back if the person in front of me does, but if they do I'll lean back, unless it's the off chance that there's a dude sitting behind me that's even taller than I am - in which case I'll lean back maybe 1/3 of the way so we can all share the pain somewhat equally.
I'm sure like most I always look for an exit row or a front row. But 90% of the time (I'm in Texas so SWA is the norm) those rows are full of 5'7" squirrely looking guys, or old women. That's a pet peeve of mine, but again, the airline doesn't enforce any size limit or anything for those rows... what are you going to do?
On the rare occasion where I'm stuck in a row that doesn't lean back, and the person in front of me does... it's pretty much SOL for both of us. My knees are going to be in the back of his seat (nothing I can do about it). In that case I'll ask them to move up half way as a compromise, and rarely am told no.
Did have one time where the guy in front apparently took issue with the unavoidable fact that my knees were in his back, and started slamming back and forth in his seat - quite violently, like a 5 year old child. It was quite the scene. I mean as hard as he could, trying to Nancy Kerrigan my ###. After about ten of them, I popped the back of his seat with my palm as hard as I can. Guy threw a fit, called the flight attendant over, and the entire crowd around us told the flight attendant what happened. The guy in front got a heavy, heavy earful from the flaming gay flight attendant, turned red face, sat up, and didn't say a word the rest of the flight. Awesome.
I've always thought it was an amazing phenomenon how human beings turn on one another in airports/airplanes. It's like societal rules and courtesies just completely break down.
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marshall88
Footballguy
I believe every person on the plane should have their own seat - for their own safety and for the safety of the other passengers. If you can't afford a seat for your infant/toddler/child, then you can't afford to fly.
Reaper
Footballguy
And if you decide to try to fit Two people in one seat then it's you that is creating a situation.Again, when that was me, I tried my best to not effect or compromise anyone around me... The guy in front of me paid for a seat that reclines... No. I'm not going to ask him to move just so I can get away with a free ticket.Hopefully If/When you travel with a lap child it happens to be a pretty empty flight.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
I find this observation interesting. I think one of the reasons that it is so noticeable when someone is being discourteous on a plane is because, by way of comparison, everyone else is being overly courteous. People help others put luggage in the overhead bin. People exchange seats to allow families or loved ones to sit together. People are mindful of crowding those next to them. People generally are polite when they speak to one another. People don't mind standing up when the person in the window seat has to use the restroom. As a general matter, people wait patiently to board and disembark. I'd say that societal rules and courtesies are at their peak during air travel. And that's why we get so pissed off when someone does something even mildly discourteous.
bigbottom
Footballguy
A lap child really doesn't present a safety issue during take off and landing, provided you stow the brat beneath the seat in front of you.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
Best post in a thread filled with otherwise horrible posts.I've been on many planes with the crying infant, upset 4 yo, etc. These things are infinitely more annoying than the person in front of you reclining their seat. And I've never complained because I almost always fly coach and I understand they allow infants and kids on the plane.I'll be blunt, if you want to be comfortable on a plane, then fly first class or business class. If you choose to fly coach, you know what your're getting into. You know the person sitting front of you will have the option to recline their seat. You know there may be crying kids.For the people crying about commuter planes not having that option, charter your own plane if it's that big of a deal. Or, here's an idea, instead of flying you can drive, boat, or take a train if it's that uncomfortable for you (the latter 2 may not be realistic options). And fwiw, if anyone was engaging in overly rude behavior on this flight, it was clearly the OP and his family. The lady sitting in front of him did nothing wrong, except politely communicate in a nonverbal manner that there was a kid climbing all over the back of her seat.
LC512
Footballguy
I'm not so sure of that. I mean, how often, in the real world, do you see people blatantly cut in front of others in lines (outside of teenagers)? I see it happen all the time flying Southwest. You line up in groups of 5, based on your number. So like, if you have A17, you'd line up in the A16-A20 area. I've had people in the same group as me cram themselves right between me and another person, with inches to spare, instead of standing behind me where they have 5+ feet of room. Just to get ahead by one. I don't think you'd see that kind of behavior in the real world.What I find even more crazy is that the most blatant jerks are the business travelers - not all, but some. The families and old folks do the stupid mindless stuff that I find mildly annoying but not egregious (kids in the front or oversized carryons type stuff). But it's the business travelers that I see pull the #### moves like cutting in line, leaning back on big folks in non-leanable rows, etc. You'd figure we would stick together and know etiquette by now. Shrug.As for the original topic... I'm not a confrontational guy, but if I found someone using one of those on me, I'd simply grab it and refuse to give it back. What are they gonna do? Fight me on the plane?
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bigbottom
Footballguy
I'm guessing you don't drive on the freeway much? Also, perhaps the guy squeezing in front of you has A16.
LC512
Footballguy
Well, A16 doesn't matter... it's not supposed to be in perfect order, just in groups. Plus, say I had A18 and he had A17, how does he know what card I'm holding? But that's picking nits. You make a good point about traffic. However I'd say that driving is a whole different ballgame because it's faceless... you don't see the person and they don't see you. Less accountability that way.Regardless - I don't know the answer. But the level of tension in airports is definitely higher in people. I'm not a smart enough guy to know why though...
Where do you live? I see people cut in line for buses all of the time.
Try me.
Tiny Dancer
Footballguy
I don't think it's hard to know why. The entire experience of flying is pretty much torture. Long lines, ridiculous security procedures like taking off shoes and confiscating liquids, waiting around for delayed planes, boarding 20 minutes in advance, paying for checked bags, paying for carry-ons, etc. People get tense when they're treated like crap.
Jewell
Footballguy
Because they have a bag of cocaine shoved up their ###.
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