L. Jordan (1 Viewer)

[fridayfrenzy]

Friday, thanks for the link to the stats. Bottom line to me is that Jordan has room for improvement with his concentration because he did drop too many balls. However, from a productivity standpoint in FF, he outperformed many of the guys you listed ahead of him, so you seem to be the one who has it out for Jordan more than the supporters. if you are saying who would I take if I were running my own NFL team, that would be different and if you asked me who I would take for the future for fantasy football, yes I would take someone like Ronnie Brown who I think is a slightly Rich mans Lamont Jordan. However, if you asked me about Warrick Dunn compared to LJ, I would take LJ anytime. You must stipulate NFL or FFL and then whether Dynasty or next year only. Tiki Barber should not be taken before Lamont for a Dynasty league is you ask me and I am a Giant fan.

I am talking strictly about non-fantasy and if you had to pick a RB for next year's season, and only next year on your NFL team. The argument put forth was that Jordan is a Top 10 RB (non-fantasy) in the NFL, and I hoheartedly disagree with that.And yes, if I had to choose between Dunn and Jordan just for next year alone on my NFL team, I would take Dunn in a heartbeat. In case you miseed it, Dunn rushed for over 1400 yards, had a 5.1 YPC and went to the Pro bowl.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

He dropped 12 balls to be exact.....which was WORST in the entire NFL.

Catching 70 of 82 catchable balls in a season is not bad. He has great hands for a RB. I think it is unfair to say L. Jordan is not a top 10 NFL RB after only 1 year as a starter. He had more then a solid year this past season in his first year as a starter and he has the all around game and leadership qualities to justify those that are saying he could be a top 10 NFL rb. He has to be at least considered as a top 10 RB in the game.

Is he a for sure top 10 back? No. But he at least deserves to be grouped with the maybe's.

He led the entire NFL in drops and you are saying thats not too bad and still has "great" hands. LOL. Are you kidding me?

Are you that infatuated with him?

He dropped 15% of the catchable balls thrown to him.

I can't find the drops for other RBs, because no other RB is in the Worst 20 for drops (7 drops), but I think I am safe in assuming that guys like Westbrook, Barber, Perry, LT, Edge, Davis, Jackson, Faulk, with a higher number of receptions did not drop more than 15%. How can you say Jordan has great hands when there are plenty of RBs who did not drop 15% of their catchable balls?

L. Jordan does have great hands for a RB. The problem with his drops this season was not due to having bad hands. Now, if you were to not watch this guy play you would make that aquistion by soley looking at stats. However, many of the balls dropped this season by Lamont was because he began heading up field before actually catching the ball. Therefore the drops cam from lack of watching the ball in, not from having bad hands, which are 2 different things. Unfortunatley some people see a stat and make a false assumption about a guys hands. Also, I am guessing that at least 2-5 of those 12 dropped passes were iffy passes that were thrown by Collins. I am sure he will be working on drills to look the ball in because that was has major problem. In fact, announcers and coaches were praising Lamont for having soft hands and having a nice ability to catch the ball out of the back field.

Ummm, being able to catch the ball is what makes someone have good hands. I don't care if they are looking ahead too early or they just have stone hands, a drop is a drop. Koren Robinson has "great" hands but sometimes he just doesn't watch the ball all the way into his hands.

What techinically makes a dropped pass is not concrete, but he still had 103 targets and only 70 catches, which can be attributed due to Collins, but the drops are Jordan's own fault, so there is no use in trying to deflect the blame.

Please stop arguing how Jordan has "great" hands when he led the NFL in drops, it is absolutely mind boggling and ridiculous.

If there are at least 10-15 RBs in the league with much lower drop %s, how can you argue Lamont Jordan has "great" hands?

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound by saying the player who led the NFL in drops has "great" hands? I see you are too far gone on your Lamont Jordan love.

I mentioned that there is room for improvement on Lamont's drops but your argument that he has bad hands IS false. You sound like someone arguing that Vick is a bad passer because he does not have a strong arm. Those 2 things although related are different problems. In Jordan's case although it is a problem it is not a problem that is unfixable. In fact, Jordan will again have a 50 catch season out of the backfield with much less drops this up coming season. If it was that much of a flaw I am pretty sure Oak would have stopped throwing to him. You can keep on pointing out flaws and hoping for a decline, but Jordan is to good to regress this up coming season. He will again run for over 1000 yards and put up at least 1500 combined yards catching a minimum of 50 catches out of the back field and put up double digit TD's again this season on a sub par team. He will not quit on his team and be a good leader thus proving 2 years in a row that he is not only a top 10 fantasy RB, but a top 10 NFL RB as well. Some of those guys you put on your list MAY end up being top 10 RB's and better then Lamont, but based on last season's performance and going forward to next season I find it hard seeing how you made your list.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

He dropped 12 balls to be exact.....which was WORST in the entire NFL.

Catching 70 of 82 catchable balls in a season is not bad. He has great hands for a RB. I think it is unfair to say L. Jordan is not a top 10 NFL RB after only 1 year as a starter. He had more then a solid year this past season in his first year as a starter and he has the all around game and leadership qualities to justify those that are saying he could be a top 10 NFL rb. He has to be at least considered as a top 10 RB in the game.

Is he a for sure top 10 back? No. But he at least deserves to be grouped with the maybe's.

He led the entire NFL in drops and you are saying thats not too bad and still has "great" hands. LOL. Are you kidding me?

Are you that infatuated with him?

He dropped 15% of the catchable balls thrown to him.

I can't find the drops for other RBs, because no other RB is in the Worst 20 for drops (7 drops), but I think I am safe in assuming that guys like Westbrook, Barber, Perry, LT, Edge, Davis, Jackson, Faulk, with a higher number of receptions did not drop more than 15%. How can you say Jordan has great hands when there are plenty of RBs who did not drop 15% of their catchable balls?

L. Jordan does have great hands for a RB. The problem with his drops this season was not due to having bad hands. Now, if you were to not watch this guy play you would make that aquistion by soley looking at stats. However, many of the balls dropped this season by Lamont was because he began heading up field before actually catching the ball. Therefore the drops cam from lack of watching the ball in, not from having bad hands, which are 2 different things. Unfortunatley some people see a stat and make a false assumption about a guys hands. Also, I am guessing that at least 2-5 of those 12 dropped passes were iffy passes that were thrown by Collins. I am sure he will be working on drills to look the ball in because that was has major problem. In fact, announcers and coaches were praising Lamont for having soft hands and having a nice ability to catch the ball out of the back field.

Ummm, being able to catch the ball is what makes someone have good hands. I don't care if they are looking ahead too early or they just have stone hands, a drop is a drop. Koren Robinson has "great" hands but sometimes he just doesn't watch the ball all the way into his hands.

What techinically makes a dropped pass is not concrete, but he still had 103 targets and only 70 catches, which can be attributed due to Collins, but the drops are Jordan's own fault, so there is no use in trying to deflect the blame.

Please stop arguing how Jordan has "great" hands when he led the NFL in drops, it is absolutely mind boggling and ridiculous.

If there are at least 10-15 RBs in the league with much lower drop %s, how can you argue Lamont Jordan has "great" hands?

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound by saying the player who led the NFL in drops has "great" hands? I see you are too far gone on your Lamont Jordan love.

I mentioned that there is room for improvement on Lamont's drops but your argument that he has bad hands IS false. You sound like someone arguing that Vick is a bad passer because he does not have a strong arm. Those 2 things although related are different problems. In Jordan's case although it is a problem it is not a problem that is unfixable. In fact, Jordan will again have a 50 catch season out of the backfield with much less drops this up coming season. If it was that much of a flaw I am pretty sure Oak would have stopped throwing to him. You can keep on pointing out flaws and hoping for a decline, but Jordan is to good to regress this up coming season. He will again run for over 1000 yards and put up at least 1500 combined yards catching a minimum of 50 catches out of the back field and put up double digit TD's again this season on a sub par team. He will not quit on his team and be a good leader thus proving 2 years in a row that he is not only a top 10 fantasy RB, but a top 10 NFL RB as well. Some of those guys you put on your list MAY end up being top 10 RB's and better then Lamont, but based on last season's performance and going forward to next season I find it hard seeing how you made your list.

Never said he had bad hands...just that he certainly doesn't have "great" hands. The guy led the league in drops and you are still trying to argue he has "great" hands. Its like arguing Favre doesn't make bad decisions .

You aren't the NFL leader in drops by having "great" hands, its that simple.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Friday, thanks for the link to the stats.  Bottom line to me is that Jordan has room for improvement with his concentration because he did drop too many balls.  However, from a productivity standpoint in FF, he outperformed many of the guys you listed ahead of him, so you seem to be the one who has it out for Jordan more than the supporters.  if you are saying who would I take if I were running my own NFL team, that would be different and if you asked me who I would take for the future for fantasy football, yes I would take someone like Ronnie Brown who I think is a slightly Rich mans Lamont Jordan.  However, if you asked me about Warrick Dunn compared to LJ, I would take LJ anytime. You must stipulate NFL or FFL and then whether Dynasty or next year only.  Tiki Barber should not be taken before Lamont for a Dynasty league is you ask me and I am a Giant fan.

I am talking strictly about non-fantasy and if you had to pick a RB for next year's season, and only next year on your NFL team. The argument put forth was that Jordan is a Top 10 RB (non-fantasy) in the NFL, and I hoheartedly disagree with that.And yes, if I had to choose between Dunn and Jordan just for next year alone on my NFL team, I would take Dunn in a heartbeat.

Although Dunn is underrated and a good NFL RB, by no means is he a top 10 NFL RB. His 39 rushing TD's in 9 NFL seasons as a starter are meh. That averages out to just over 4 rushing TD's a year. I mean he is a good RB, but top 10 is laughable. In fact, just going by stats it is not even close. Dunn has only had one year being last year where he had a combined 1600 yards out of 9 seasons (his other best year was 1460 yards); Jordan had 1600 yards in his first year as a starter. Dunn is a great reciever out of the backfield but his highest total of 68 touches is 2 less then Jordan's 70. Dunn has never had a season of double digit TD's while Jordan did that in his first year. In 2001, 2002, and 2003, Dunn ran for 447 in 13 games, 927 in 14 games, and 672 in 11 games. He was a starter in these seasons. His last 2 seasons have been really good, but still he is not a top NFL RB. He is undervalued this is true, but he is not top 10 material. He is a poor man's Tiki.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Friday, thanks for the link to the stats. Bottom line to me is that Jordan has room for improvement with his concentration because he did drop too many balls. However, from a productivity standpoint in FF, he outperformed many of the guys you listed ahead of him, so you seem to be the one who has it out for Jordan more than the supporters. if you are saying who would I take if I were running my own NFL team, that would be different and if you asked me who I would take for the future for fantasy football, yes I would take someone like Ronnie Brown who I think is a slightly Rich mans Lamont Jordan. However, if you asked me about Warrick Dunn compared to LJ, I would take LJ anytime. You must stipulate NFL or FFL and then whether Dynasty or next year only. Tiki Barber should not be taken before Lamont for a Dynasty league is you ask me and I am a Giant fan.

I am talking strictly about non-fantasy and if you had to pick a RB for next year's season, and only next year on your NFL team. The argument put forth was that Jordan is a Top 10 RB (non-fantasy) in the NFL, and I hoheartedly disagree with that.And yes, if I had to choose between Dunn and Jordan just for next year alone on my NFL team, I would take Dunn in a heartbeat.

Although Dunn is underrated and a good NFL RB, by no means is he a top 10 NFL RB. His 39 rushing TD's in 9 NFL seasons as a starter are meh. That averages out to just over 4 rushing TD's a year. I mean he is a good RB, but top 10 is laughable. In fact, just going by stats it is not even close. Dunn has only had one year being last year where he had a combined 1600 yards out of 9 seasons (his other best year was 1460 yards); Jordan had 1600 yards in his first year as a starter. Dunn is a great reciever out of the backfield but his highest total of 68 touches is 2 less then Jordan's 70. Dunn has never had a season of double digit TD's while Jordan did that in his first year. In 2001, 2002, and 2003, Dunn ran for 447 in 13 games, 927 in 14 games, and 672 in 11 games. He was a starter in these seasons. His last 2 seasons have been really good, but still he is not a top NFL RB. He is undervalued this is true, but he is not top 10 material. He is a poor man's Tiki.

Too bad we aren't talking about that far back, we are just talking about last year and who is the better RB at the moment. If that was the case, I would bring up the fact that Jordan wasn't even a starter and Dunn was and Dunn had better stats than Jordan in all those years. How fair is it to compare Dunn's prior years to Jordan's only year?Going from last year into next year...Dunn is the easy choice.

 

[Traders2001]

He dropped 12 balls to be exact.....which was WORST in the entire NFL.

Catching 70 of 82 catchable balls in a season is not bad. He has great hands for a RB. I think it is unfair to say L. Jordan is not a top 10 NFL RB after only 1 year as a starter. He had more then a solid year this past season in his first year as a starter and he has the all around game and leadership qualities to justify those that are saying he could be a top 10 NFL rb. He has to be at least considered as a top 10 RB in the game.

Is he a for sure top 10 back? No. But he at least deserves to be grouped with the maybe's.

He led the entire NFL in drops and you are saying thats not too bad and still has "great" hands. LOL. Are you kidding me?

Are you that infatuated with him?

He dropped 15% of the catchable balls thrown to him.

I can't find the drops for other RBs, because no other RB is in the Worst 20 for drops (7 drops), but I think I am safe in assuming that guys like Westbrook, Barber, Perry, LT, Edge, Davis, Jackson, Faulk, with a higher number of receptions did not drop more than 15%. How can you say Jordan has great hands when there are plenty of RBs who did not drop 15% of their catchable balls?

L. Jordan does have great hands for a RB. The problem with his drops this season was not due to having bad hands. Now, if you were to not watch this guy play you would make that aquistion by soley looking at stats. However, many of the balls dropped this season by Lamont was because he began heading up field before actually catching the ball. Therefore the drops cam from lack of watching the ball in, not from having bad hands, which are 2 different things. Unfortunatley some people see a stat and make a false assumption about a guys hands. Also, I am guessing that at least 2-5 of those 12 dropped passes were iffy passes that were thrown by Collins. I am sure he will be working on drills to look the ball in because that was has major problem. In fact, announcers and coaches were praising Lamont for having soft hands and having a nice ability to catch the ball out of the back field.

Ummm, being able to catch the ball is what makes someone have good hands. I don't care if they are looking ahead too early or they just have stone hands, a drop is a drop. Koren Robinson has "great" hands but sometimes he just doesn't watch the ball all the way into his hands.

What techinically makes a dropped pass is not concrete, but he still had 103 targets and only 70 catches, which can be attributed due to Collins, but the drops are Jordan's own fault, so there is no use in trying to deflect the blame.

Please stop arguing how Jordan has "great" hands when he led the NFL in drops, it is absolutely mind boggling and ridiculous.

If there are at least 10-15 RBs in the league with much lower drop %s, how can you argue Lamont Jordan has "great" hands?

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound by saying the player who led the NFL in drops has "great" hands? I see you are too far gone on your Lamont Jordan love.

I mentioned that there is room for improvement on Lamont's drops but your argument that he has bad hands IS false. You sound like someone arguing that Vick is a bad passer because he does not have a strong arm. Those 2 things although related are different problems. In Jordan's case although it is a problem it is not a problem that is unfixable. In fact, Jordan will again have a 50 catch season out of the backfield with much less drops this up coming season. If it was that much of a flaw I am pretty sure Oak would have stopped throwing to him. You can keep on pointing out flaws and hoping for a decline, but Jordan is to good to regress this up coming season. He will again run for over 1000 yards and put up at least 1500 combined yards catching a minimum of 50 catches out of the back field and put up double digit TD's again this season on a sub par team. He will not quit on his team and be a good leader thus proving 2 years in a row that he is not only a top 10 fantasy RB, but a top 10 NFL RB as well. Some of those guys you put on your list MAY end up being top 10 RB's and better then Lamont, but based on last season's performance and going forward to next season I find it hard seeing how you made your list.

Never said he had bad hands...just that he certainly doesn't have "great" hands. The guy led the league in drops and you are still trying to argue he has "great" hands. Its like arguing Favre doesn't make bad decisions .

You aren't the NFL leader in drops by having "great" hands, its that simple.

Agreed 100% , i had him on my team un til week 8 last season .I was so disappointed looking at him ( Cant brake any tackles drops way too many balls , no speed ) He ended up with decent numbers cause he was on a good offensive team , but if you put him back in a Jets uniform last season he would have been awful.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Friday, thanks for the link to the stats.  Bottom line to me is that Jordan has room for improvement with his concentration because he did drop too many balls.  However, from a productivity standpoint in FF, he outperformed many of the guys you listed ahead of him, so you seem to be the one who has it out for Jordan more than the supporters.  if you are saying who would I take if I were running my own NFL team, that would be different and if you asked me who I would take for the future for fantasy football, yes I would take someone like Ronnie Brown who I think is a slightly Rich mans Lamont Jordan.  However, if you asked me about Warrick Dunn compared to LJ, I would take LJ anytime. You must stipulate NFL or FFL and then whether Dynasty or next year only.  Tiki Barber should not be taken before Lamont for a Dynasty league is you ask me and I am a Giant fan.

I am talking strictly about non-fantasy and if you had to pick a RB for next year's season, and only next year on your NFL team. The argument put forth was that Jordan is a Top 10 RB (non-fantasy) in the NFL, and I hoheartedly disagree with that.And yes, if I had to choose between Dunn and Jordan just for next year alone on my NFL team, I would take Dunn in a heartbeat.

Although Dunn is underrated and a good NFL RB, by no means is he a top 10 NFL RB. His 39 rushing TD's in 9 NFL seasons as a starter are meh. That averages out to just over 4 rushing TD's a year. I mean he is a good RB, but top 10 is laughable. In fact, just going by stats it is not even close. Dunn has only had one year being last year where he had a combined 1600 yards out of 9 seasons (his other best year was 1460 yards); Jordan had 1600 yards in his first year as a starter. Dunn is a great reciever out of the backfield but his highest total of 68 touches is 2 less then Jordan's 70. Dunn has never had a season of double digit TD's while Jordan did that in his first year. In 2001, 2002, and 2003, Dunn ran for 447 in 13 games, 927 in 14 games, and 672 in 11 games. He was a starter in these seasons. His last 2 seasons have been really good, but still he is not a top NFL RB. He is undervalued this is true, but he is not top 10 material. He is a poor man's Tiki.

Too bad we aren't talking about that far back, we are just talking about last year and who is the better RB at the moment. If that was the case, I would bring up the fact that Jordan wasn't even a starter and Dunn was and Dunn had better stats than Jordan in all those years. How fair is it to compare Dunn's prior years to Jordan's only year?Going from last year into next year...Dunn is the easy choice.

how???? Now some may pick Dunn but by no way is it an EASY choice.Lamont Jordan last year had 1588 yds and 11 TD's in 14 games with a team that was sub par and finished dead last in rushing yards the year before.

VS

W. Dunn who had 1636 yards and only 4 TD's in 16 games with a team that lead the league in rushing the previous year.

I will take the player who had equal yardage from scrimmage in 2 less games, playing behind a worst o-line, and having 3 times as many TD's all in his first season as a starter vs the aging vet. Jordan proved that he is one of those all around RB's that are becoming harder to find now a days. A work horse back that can run, catch and be an effective goal line back. You are giving Dunn to much credit. He is a very servicable RB and nice to have, but by no means is he a top 10 NFL back. He is underrated for sure, but top 10 is pushing it.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I think Dunn just looked better than Jordan this past year.

Dunn rushed for over 1400 yards and had a YPC average of 5.1, which is an entire yard greater than Jordan. Dunn also had more total yards than Jordan on about 40 less touches.

Its an easy choice for me.

In 2005...Dunn > Jordan

P.S. You do realize why the Falcons led the league in rushing, right? Vick.

 

[Jedimaster21]

I have been observing this debate for the past year about Lamont Jordan, and I am convinced that Friday Frenzy is just making arguments for entertainment purposes. Anyone that knows football, knows that Jordan is a much more valuable back than Dunn, and is very close to the top 10 in the NFL.

When looking at your top 10 list for RB, I am curious about what qualities you look for in a RB. You listed SA, LT, Edge, Portis, Barber, S. Jackson, LJ, Rudi, Dunn, Deuce, R. Brown, Caddy, and McGahee. Now I can see that some may be better in the future, but you clearly stated that you are speaking about who is best right now. Shaun, LT, LJ, and Tiki are clearly elite, but Edge, Portis, Jackson, and the rest have each have weaknesses in their game. Your basis for Jordan not being in the top 10 is what...3.8 ypc and 12 drops? Are you kidding?

Now it is difficult to say that he is definitely in the top 10, but his all around game is what sets him apart from many of the backs you mentioned. IMO, Rudi, Dunn, Caddy, and McGahee are not nearly the back Jordan is. Rudi comes off the field on 3rd down, and is never used in passing situations. Dunn has a high ypc because he is only on the field between the 20s, and is rarely used in power running situations, for obvious reasons. Caddy is a solid back, but was stifled in short yardage situations, and was not used in passing situations as frequently as Jordan. McGahee has never fully recovered from his knee injury, and is an average power back, with average hands and limited elusiveness. Jordan is a 230 pound power back that runs a 4.45. He is an every down back that can block, is used at the goal line, and never comes off the field. He is a competitive team leader, and has the talent to take it the distance despite his size. In the NFL, coaches and GMs are always looking for ways to maximize their roster. If they can have one back that can do all of these things well, they would much rather have him than having to have Duckett and Dunn on their roster. Multiple players cost more money, and don't disguise plays as well due to their specialized responsibilities.

I would like to hear some reasons why you think that the above players are more valuable to an NFL team than Jordan, besides that fact that you "just don't think he is that good", he only had a 3.8 ypc, and he had 12 drops.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I would just like to pick on this line right now, as we are talking about Dunn.

Dunn has a high ypc because he is only on the field between the 20s, and is rarely used in power running situations, for obvious reasons.

Lamont Jordan

OWN 1-20 - 46 carries for 181 yards

OWN 21-50 - 125 carries for 513 yards

OPP 49-20 - 61 carries for 237 yards

OPP 19-1 - 40 carries for 94 yards

Warrick Dunn

OWN 1-20 - 44 carries for 327 yards

OWN 21-50 - 111 carries for 563 yards

OPP 49-20 - 92 carries for 441 yards

OPP 19-1 - 33 carries for 85 yards

Jordan only had 9 carries more than Dunn outside the 20s, so your argument that Dunn only plays inside the 20s and thats why he has a high YPC, goes right out the window. Dunn plays the entire field, except for inside the 5 yard line because they bring in Duckett.

Dunn also had more rushing First Downs than Jordan on practically an identical amount of carries.

 

[Jedimaster21]

Actually, inside the 20s isn't exactly what I meant. I meant inside the opponents red zone. Apparently, Jordan got 7 more carries than Dunn inside the red zone. So you have shown me that despite almost as many carries, Dunn only managed 3 scores to Jordan's 9. It is quite obvious who is more effective in goal line situations, despite Atlanta's ability to run with Vick and take pressure off Dunn when rushing the ball. You should really try to logically counter my main argument, instead of picking one line and throwing out facts that really don't make your argument more convincing.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Actually, inside the 20s isn't exactly what I meant. I meant inside the opponents red zone. Apparently, Jordan got 7 more carries than Dunn inside the red zone. So you have shown me that despite almost as many carries, Dunn only managed 3 scores to Jordan's 9. It is quite obvious who is more effective in goal line situations, despite Atlanta's ability to run with Vick and take pressure off Dunn when rushing the ball. You should really try to logically counter my main argument, instead of picking one line and throwing out facts that really don't make your argument more convincing.

Either way...I proved Dunn doesn't just have a high YPC just because he doesn't run at the GL, which was your reasoning for Dunn's high YPC. Quit back pedalling and changing your argument to goal line TDs now.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I have been observing this debate for the past year about Lamont Jordan, and I am convinced that Friday Frenzy is just making arguments for entertainment purposes. Anyone that knows football, knows that Jordan is a much more valuable back than Dunn, and is very close to the top 10 in the NFL.

When looking at your top 10 list for RB, I am curious about what qualities you look for in a RB. You listed SA, LT, Edge, Portis, Barber, S. Jackson, LJ, Rudi, Dunn, Deuce, R. Brown, Caddy, and McGahee. Now I can see that some may be better in the future, but you clearly stated that you are speaking about who is best right now. Shaun, LT, LJ, and Tiki are clearly elite, but Edge, Portis, Jackson, and the rest have each have weaknesses in their game. Your basis for Jordan not being in the top 10 is what...3.8 ypc and 12 drops? Are you kidding?

Now it is difficult to say that he is definitely in the top 10, but his all around game is what sets him apart from many of the backs you mentioned. IMO, Rudi, Dunn, Caddy, and McGahee are not nearly the back Jordan is. Rudi comes off the field on 3rd down, and is never used in passing situations. Dunn has a high ypc because he is only on the field between the 20s, and is rarely used in power running situations, for obvious reasons. Caddy is a solid back, but was stifled in short yardage situations, and was not used in passing situations as frequently as Jordan. McGahee has never fully recovered from his knee injury, and is an average power back, with average hands and limited elusiveness. Jordan is a 230 pound power back that runs a 4.45. He is an every down back that can block, is used at the goal line, and never comes off the field. He is a competitive team leader, and has the talent to take it the distance despite his size. In the NFL, coaches and GMs are always looking for ways to maximize their roster. If they can have one back that can do all of these things well, they would much rather have him than having to have Duckett and Dunn on their roster. Multiple players cost more money, and don't disguise plays as well due to their specialized responsibilities.

I would like to hear some reasons why you think that the above players are more valuable to an NFL team than Jordan, besides that fact that you "just don't think he is that good", he only had a 3.8 ypc, and he had 12 drops.

summed up exatctly my thoughts.I am sure that GM's after seeing L. Jordan last season would be a lot more excited about starting the season with him as the featured back as opposed to Dunn; and that is not a hit on Dunn but a compliment to Jordan's all around game.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

summed up exatctly my thoughts.

I am sure that GM's after seeing L. Jordan last season would be a lot more excited about starting the season with him as the featured back as opposed to Dunn; and that is not a hit on Dunn but a compliment to Jordan's all around game.

I think any thoughts about Jordan that are positive, sum up your thoughts.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I think Dunn just looked better than Jordan this past year.

Dunn rushed for over 1400 yards and had a YPC average of 5.1, which is an entire yard greater than Jordan. Dunn also had more total yards than Jordan on about 40 less touches.

Its an easy choice for me.

In 2005...Dunn > Jordan

P.S. You do realize why the Falcons led the league in rushing, right? Vick.

And you do realize that Dunn's success over the past 2 seasons is in direct correlation with Vick as well. I think the best way to measure a guys ability is how would he do in the other players circumstance. And if Jordan was the starter on Atl would he be just as successful as Dunn and vice versa. My answer is yess Jordan would be just as effective but Dunn would have had a lot more trouble matching what Jordan did last season with Oak.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

I think Dunn just looked better than Jordan this past year.

Dunn rushed for over 1400 yards and had a YPC average of 5.1, which is an entire yard greater than Jordan. Dunn also had more total yards than Jordan on about 40 less touches.

Its an easy choice for me.

In 2005...Dunn > Jordan

P.S. You do realize why the Falcons led the league in rushing, right? Vick.

And you do realize that Dunn's success over the past 2 seasons is in direct correlation with Vick as well. I think the best way to measure a guys ability is how would he do in the other players circumstance. And if Jordan was the starter on Atl would he be just as successful as Dunn and vice versa. My answer is yess Jordan would be just as effective but Dunn would have had a lot more trouble matching what Jordan did last season with Oak.

I realize that they are different situations and Jordan would rush for more yards playing in Atlanta than Oakland, but Dunn would also rack up a huge amount of receptions playing in last year's Oakland situation.Jordan and Dunn have very different styles and thus its hard to compare situations. IMO, Jordan would get more yards than Dunn in Oakland because of his size and being able to power through the would-be holes himself, whereas Dunn would excel moreso than Jordan on an average to above average line as he is quick and will make guys miss in holes and open field.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10.

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season. You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long. I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

 

[Jedimaster21]

I am not attempting to back pedal. You were absolutely right about the ypc. I assumed that Dunn was used less in the red zone, and that attributed to his higher ypc. However, there are numerous other reasons that could account for Jordan's low ypc, and Dunn's higher average. However, I don't really want to focus on Dunn's ypc, but his total effectiveness as a runner. The issue isn't me back pedalling, but you side stepping the real issue: Jordan is a much better back than you care to admit.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10.

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season. You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long. I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

I ho-hearedly ate my crow about Jordan finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy, but that doesn't enter into an argument about whether Jordan is a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don't hate Jordan, what I do hate is people like you who think Jordan is the second coming and can find no faults in his game. Those who think Jordan can do no wrong and that you think every positive post about Jordan is a I watched a fair bit of Raider's games this past season due to having Moss, and I was certainly not impressed with Jordan's rushing game. He barely rushed for over 1000 yards, had a measely 3.8 YPC, only rushed over 100 yards three times, and did not finish the season. Sorry, but I failed to see the "Top 10 NFL RB" in this game and numbers.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Jordan is a much better back than you care to admit.

Just because I don't think he is a Top 10 NFL RB? Oh the insanity.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10. 

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season.  You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long.  I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

I ho-hearedly ate my crow about Jordan finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy, but that doesn't enter into an argument about whether Jordan is a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don't hate Jordan, what I do hate is people like you who think Jordan is the second coming and can find no faults in his game. Those who think Jordan can do no wrong and that you think every positive post about Jordan is a I watched a fair bit of Raider's games this past season due to having Moss, and I was certainly not impressed with Jordan's rushing game. He barely rushed for over 1000 yards, had a measely 3.8 YPC, only rushed over 100 yards three times, and did not finish the season. Sorry, but I failed to see the "Top 10 NFL RB" in this game and numbers.

The funny thing here is you put a guy (McGahee) in your top 10 who had the exact 3.8 ypc average with 6 less TD's, and only had 1400 combined yards in 2 more games then Jordan this past season.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10.

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season. You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long. I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

I ho-hearedly ate my crow about Jordan finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy, but that doesn't enter into an argument about whether Jordan is a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don't hate Jordan, what I do hate is people like you who think Jordan is the second coming and can find no faults in his game. Those who think Jordan can do no wrong and that you think every positive post about Jordan is a I watched a fair bit of Raider's games this past season due to having Moss, and I was certainly not impressed with Jordan's rushing game. He barely rushed for over 1000 yards, had a measely 3.8 YPC, only rushed over 100 yards three times, and did not finish the season. Sorry, but I failed to see the "Top 10 NFL RB" in this game and numbers.

The funny thing here is you put a guy (McGahee) in your top 10 who had the exact 3.8 ypc average with 6 less TD's, and only had 1400 combined yards in 2 more games then Jordan this past season.

Sorry, but I don't put GL TDs high up on my list of what makes a good RB. It seems that the number of GL TDs scored by a RB like Jordan or McGahee deals more with how many times their teams have the opportunity inside the 5 yard line, rather than how productive they are at scoring TDs. In 2004, McGahee had 13 TDs, so why the sudden change? I highly doubt its due to a massive downfall in McGahee's ability to punch one in.Why are you saying it like McGahee doing all this in 2 more games than Jordan is a point against him. McGahee lasted the entire season and has been a starter for 1 and 3/4 seasons now without missing any time. Jordan couldn't even finish his first season as a starter.

 

[Z-Dog]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10.

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season. You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long. I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

I ho-hearedly ate my crow about Jordan finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy, but that doesn't enter into an argument about whether Jordan is a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don't hate Jordan, what I do hate is people like you who think Jordan is the second coming and can find no faults in his game. Those who think Jordan can do no wrong and that you think every positive post about Jordan is a I watched a fair bit of Raider's games this past season due to having Moss, and I was certainly not impressed with Jordan's rushing game. He barely rushed for over 1000 yards, had a measely 3.8 YPC, only rushed over 100 yards three times, and did not finish the season. Sorry, but I failed to see the "Top 10 NFL RB" in this game and numbers.

The funny thing here is you put a guy (McGahee) in your top 10 who had the exact 3.8 ypc average with 6 less TD's, and only had 1400 combined yards in 2 more games then Jordan this past season.

Sorry, but I don't put GL TDs high up on my list of what makes a good RB. It seems that the number of GL TDs scored by a RB like Jordan or McGahee deals more with how many times their teams have the opportunity inside the 5 yard line, rather than how productive they are at scoring TDs. In 2004, McGahee had 13 TDs, so why the sudden change? I highly doubt its due to a massive downfall in McGahee's ability to punch one in.Why are you saying it like McGahee doing all this in 2 more games than Jordan is a point against him. McGahee lasted the entire season and has been a starter for 1 and 3/4 seasons now without missing any time. Jordan couldn't even finish his first season as a starter.

It doesn't seem like you have any consistent method for evaluating RBs. After all, you had S.Jackson on your list of 'better than Jordan', and he barely broke 1000 yards in his first season as a starter, missed the last game of the year, and had almost 30 fewer receptions than Jordan (but less drops! Woo hoo!). McGahee didn't miss any starts, but missed plenty of gametime b/c of nagging injuries that forced him into the locker room. He had smaller numbers than Jordan in every category, has never averaged more than 4.0 ypc, isn't much of a receiver, and has major injury history.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10.

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season. You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long. I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

I ho-hearedly ate my crow about Jordan finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy, but that doesn't enter into an argument about whether Jordan is a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don't hate Jordan, what I do hate is people like you who think Jordan is the second coming and can find no faults in his game. Those who think Jordan can do no wrong and that you think every positive post about Jordan is a I watched a fair bit of Raider's games this past season due to having Moss, and I was certainly not impressed with Jordan's rushing game. He barely rushed for over 1000 yards, had a measely 3.8 YPC, only rushed over 100 yards three times, and did not finish the season. Sorry, but I failed to see the "Top 10 NFL RB" in this game and numbers.

The funny thing here is you put a guy (McGahee) in your top 10 who had the exact 3.8 ypc average with 6 less TD's, and only had 1400 combined yards in 2 more games then Jordan this past season.

Sorry, but I don't put GL TDs high up on my list of what makes a good RB. It seems that the number of GL TDs scored by a RB like Jordan or McGahee deals more with how many times their teams have the opportunity inside the 5 yard line, rather than how productive they are at scoring TDs. In 2004, McGahee had 13 TDs, so why the sudden change? I highly doubt its due to a massive downfall in McGahee's ability to punch one in.Why are you saying it like McGahee doing all this in 2 more games than Jordan is a point against him. McGahee lasted the entire season and has been a starter for 1 and 3/4 seasons now without missing any time. Jordan couldn't even finish his first season as a starter.

It doesn't seem like you have any consistent method for evaluating RBs. After all, you had S.Jackson on your list of 'better than Jordan', and he barely broke 1000 yards in his first season as a starter, missed the last game of the year, and had almost 30 fewer receptions than Jordan (but less drops! Woo hoo!). McGahee didn't miss any starts, but missed plenty of gametime b/c of nagging injuries that forced him into the locker room. He had smaller numbers than Jordan in every category, has never averaged more than 4.0 ypc, isn't much of a receiver, and has major injury history.

Jackson had more rushing yards on less carries than Jordan and is a better receiver than Jordan, and would have had 50+ receptions if one of the best receiving RBs in the history of the NFL were not on the team.Jackson over Jordan in a heartbeat.

 

[Back2Back]

Friday, you already ate crow this past season watching Jordan finish as a top 10 fantasy RB when you projected him to finish 10-13 spots farther back in the 18-22 range and laughed at all who would even think of projecting him to finish close to the top 10. 

Now you are setting yourself up to eat more crow about the same player by saying that there is no way he is a top 10 NFL RB when in actuality he is on the cusp of already being there.

I think you are arguing in an attempt to belittle a player that you failed to see the fantasy upside in last season.  You laughed at all that said he could catch 50 balls out of the backfield, you said he would have trouble getting goaline touches from Crockett, you said he was not that good because he was a back up for to long.  I think it is time you start assessing this player without hate and wake up and see how good he is.

I ho-hearedly ate my crow about Jordan finishing in the Top 10 for fantasy, but that doesn't enter into an argument about whether Jordan is a Top 10 RB in the NFL. I don't hate Jordan, what I do hate is people like you who think Jordan is the second coming and can find no faults in his game. Those who think Jordan can do no wrong and that you think every positive post about Jordan is a I watched a fair bit of Raider's games this past season due to having Moss, and I was certainly not impressed with Jordan's rushing game. He barely rushed for over 1000 yards, had a measely 3.8 YPC, only rushed over 100 yards three times, and did not finish the season. Sorry, but I failed to see the "Top 10 NFL RB" in this game and numbers.

The funny thing here is you put a guy (McGahee) in your top 10 who had the exact 3.8 ypc average with 6 less TD's, and only had 1400 combined yards in 2 more games then Jordan this past season.

Sorry, but I don't put GL TDs high up on my list of what makes a good RB. It seems that the number of GL TDs scored by a RB like Jordan or McGahee deals more with how many times their teams have the opportunity inside the 5 yard line, rather than how productive they are at scoring TDs. In 2004, McGahee had 13 TDs, so why the sudden change? I highly doubt its due to a massive downfall in McGahee's ability to punch one in.Why are you saying it like McGahee doing all this in 2 more games than Jordan is a point against him. McGahee lasted the entire season and has been a starter for 1 and 3/4 seasons now without missing any time. Jordan couldn't even finish his first season as a starter.

It doesn't seem like you have any consistent method for evaluating RBs. After all, you had S.Jackson on your list of 'better than Jordan', and he barely broke 1000 yards in his first season as a starter, missed the last game of the year, and had almost 30 fewer receptions than Jordan (but less drops! Woo hoo!). McGahee didn't miss any starts, but missed plenty of gametime b/c of nagging injuries that forced him into the locker room. He had smaller numbers than Jordan in every category, has never averaged more than 4.0 ypc, isn't much of a receiver, and has major injury history.

Jackson had more rushing yards on less carries than Jordan and is a better receiver than Jordan, and would have had 50+ receptions if one of the best receiving RBs in the history of the NFL were not on the team.Jackson over Jordan in a heartbeat.

What is your basis for the comment Jackson has better hands than Jordan.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

What is your basis for the comment Jackson has better hands than Jordan.

A few things...1. From actually watching each of them play

2. Their stats for receptions and drops

3. Scouting Reports on Jackson

 

[fridayfrenzy]

What is your basis for the comment Jackson has better hands than Jordan.

What is your basis for thinking otherwise?

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

What is your basis for the comment Jackson has better hands than Jordan.

A few things...1. From actually watching each of them play

2. Their stats for receptions and drops

3. Scouting Reports on Jackson

1) You are not serious in saying that your analysis from watching both of them play is enough evidence to prove to anyone that Jackson has better hands then Jordan.2) What is LaMont Jordan's career stats on drops? He has caught 120 balls in the NFL, I would love to know what his percentage is for his career. You are comapring a sample size from a guy that has 120 balls caught (Jordan) versus a guy who has half as many at 62 (Jackson).

3) Have the scouting reports said that Jackson has better hands then L. Jordan???? Because last I checked both of these guys scouting reports say they have great hands.

I think both of these players are both lethal out of the backfield. And I think that both have great hands for RB's. To go from this season alone and say Jackson has better hands then Jordan is guessing. Just like saying Jordan does not have great hands because he dropped balls this season.

 

[Back2Back]

What is your basis for the comment Jackson has better hands than Jordan.

A few things...1. From actually watching each of them play

2. Their stats for receptions and drops

3. Scouting Reports on Jackson

1) You are not serious in saying that your analysis from watching both of them play is enough evidence to prove to anyone that Jackson has better hands then Jordan.2) What is LaMont Jordan's career stats on drops? He has caught 120 balls in the NFL, I would love to know what his percentage is for his career. You are comapring a sample size from a guy that has 120 balls caught (Jordan) versus a guy who has half as many at 62 (Jackson).

3) Have the scouting reports said that Jackson has better hands then L. Jordan???? Because last I checked both of these guys scouting reports say they have great hands.

I think both of these players are both lethal out of the backfield. And I think that both have great hands for RB's. To go from this season alone and say Jackson has better hands then Jordan is guessing. Just like saying Jordan does not have great hands because he dropped balls this season.

well I was going to reply in a similar fashion. I think it is too soon to make a determination on who is a better receiver. Both have only really had one full year of production and based strictly on statistics I would have too say Jordan is better. Of course you have too take into consideration the style offense etc. Jordan did drop quite a few but who is to say if you added another 30 catches to Jackson that he wouldn't have dropped just as many on the way to acheiving the same 70 catches.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

What is your basis for the comment Jackson has better hands than Jordan.

A few things...1. From actually watching each of them play

2. Their stats for receptions and drops

3. Scouting Reports on Jackson

1) You are not serious in saying that your analysis from watching both of them play is enough evidence to prove to anyone that Jackson has better hands then Jordan.2) What is LaMont Jordan's career stats on drops? He has caught 120 balls in the NFL, I would love to know what his percentage is for his career. You are comapring a sample size from a guy that has 120 balls caught (Jordan) versus a guy who has half as many at 62 (Jackson).

3) Have the scouting reports said that Jackson has better hands then L. Jordan???? Because last I checked both of these guys scouting reports say they have great hands.

I think both of these players are both lethal out of the backfield. And I think that both have great hands for RB's. To go from this season alone and say Jackson has better hands then Jordan is guessing. Just like saying Jordan does not have great hands because he dropped balls this season.

1) Of course I am serious. How do you actually judge a player? 2) We aren't talking about careers. We are talking the here and now. Jordan led the league in drops last year and dropped 15% of his catchable balls. FYI...that is not a stat helping you prove Lamont has "great" hands, it does the EXACT opposite.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Jordan did drop quite a few but who is to say if you added another 30 catches to Jackson that he wouldn't have dropped just as many on the way to acheiving the same 70 catches.

Ya, thats why you have to look at the %s. Jordan's drop % was a lot greater than Jackson's.

 

[Z-Dog]

Jordan did drop quite a few but who is to say if you added another 30 catches to Jackson that he wouldn't have dropped just as many on the way to acheiving the same 70 catches.

Ya, thats why you have to look at the %s. Jordan's drop % was a lot greater than Jackson's.

On a total of only 120 receptions, the drop % is just about meaningless - too few receptions to really analyze anything.pointless thread

 

[Chaka]

I move that FridayFrenzy change his screen name to "The Old Man and the Sea" because he is the greatest fisherman I have ever seen.

82 posts in this thread and Frenzy is the only one diminishing Jordan's ability, and not so well IMHO, yet poster after poster seems to believe that something they type will change Friday's opinion.

NEWSFLASH: Ain't gonna happen.

My only question for Friday is did you pay-up on your bet with Carter about Jordan finishing top 10?

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Jordan did drop quite a few but who is to say if you added another 30 catches to Jackson that he wouldn't have dropped just as many on the way to acheiving the same 70 catches.

Ya, thats why you have to look at the %s. Jordan's drop % was a lot greater than Jackson's.

On a total of only 120 receptions, the drop % is just about meaningless - too few receptions to really analyze anything.pointless thread

Then move along.