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Labor Dispute Master Thread (1 Viewer)

'ceo3west said:
The owners just agreed to their own proposal, this thing is far from done.
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Correct.
According to multiple sources, players are saying the owners slipped in new elements to a deal that were never agreed to at the negotiating table. Players have taken to Twitter to voice their extreme displeasure with the owners voting tonight, with Vonnie Holliday of the Redskins provided the most telling tweet of them all:

No reason to lie! Truth of the matter is we got tricked, duped, hoodwinked, bamboozled!
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Basically, what it seems the owners have done is agree on a CBA the players have not seen.
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link
 
'Bigboy10182000 said:
'zadok said:
Listening to Heath Evans unable to say exactly what was "slipped in"; he (and all who are claiming it) is utterly clueless. This ish is over.
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Completely, but they're all pissed lol
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He might legally not be able to or has been asked not to by the NFLPA*.From what I've heard the owners slipped in some extra stuff on revenue that wasn't something dealt with before.That's why the former union is cheesed off.ps - it's a TEN year deal with no opt out. No way does that get rubber stamped. It's insane to think it would. Just bad business.
 
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In the hours following the owners' 31-0 vote to ratify a settlement proposal that would end the four-month-old lockout, NFLPA general counsel Richard Berthelsen sent a second email out to player reps on Thursday night detailing the issues with the potential deal. NFL Network obtained a copy of the email, which took issue with the league setting a rough timetable for the NFLPA to reform as a union.

"In addition to depriving the players of the time needed to consider forming a union and making needed changes to the old agreement, this proposed procedure would, in my view, also violate federal labor laws," Berthelsen said in the email. "Those laws prohibit employers from coercing their employees into forming a union and could result in any agreement reached through the procedure being declared null and void."

The email said the league "demands that the players reform as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26, that a majority of players have signed union authorization cards."

It also said that the new CBA includes "virtually all provisions of the old CBA" and that, after voting on it, by July 26, the players would only have three days to bargain changes in terms. The agreement, it goes on, "would become final on Saturday, July 30. If the NFL does not agree to the players' proposed changes, the old CBA terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc., will remain unchanged for another 10 years."
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Albert Breer
 
Well Mort seems optimistic about tomorrow. I guess after the players got the whole deal it may not have been as bad as originally expected. He said they're in better shape then they were 3 hours ago and he expects a vote tomorrow.

 
'Bigboy10182000 said:
Well Mort seems optimistic about tomorrow. I guess after the players got the whole deal it may not have been as bad as originally expected. He said they're in better shape then they were 3 hours ago and he expects a vote tomorrow.
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''optimistic'' is whats been the last 5 months.I believe it when i see it.
 
Its odd the players are telling us we are misinformed, when clearly, they are the ones misinformed.

Greg Bedard just reported, players do have the proposal owners voted on now, but it came after their conference call.

How can Heath Evans even know if things were in it, if he didnt see it. I'm a Saints fan, I hope we dont resign him, he is moronic. lol, I'm venting. at his stupidity.

VJax can say what ever he wants on Twitter. He knows what is being said, he could have a camera at his house in one second to say whatever he likes. Screw Twitter when it comes to saving your rep, if you are not holding this up, say so.

This is a mess!

 
I don't think it's a problem that the players hadn't seen it yet, provided the agreement the owners was a good-faith effort to reflect what had been negotiated. And I don't think it's a problem for the players to slow down and make sure that the legal document is in order. Odds are that's what's happening and all the hoopla is just fog of war type stuff.

If one side or the other is using the tight timeline or confusion to try and squeeze the other after a handshake agreement was in place it's a really stupid way to do business though.

 
Whether the players return serve or even choose to take the court at all was being debated in Washington at NFLPA headquarters Thursday evening.

"(The settlement) gives the players only three days -- Wednesday, Thursday and Friday of next week -- to try to bargain any changes to the old CBA," Smith said in an email to the players association. "Any such changes would have to be agreed to by the owners in order to be incorporated into the Agreement, which would then become final on Saturday, July 30. If the NFL does not agree to the players' proposed changes, the old CBA terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc. will remain unchanged for another ten years," the email reads.

The NFL accepted the potential for a refused deal -- and more negotiations -- by saying they'd have to reconsider based on the players' response.

"If something happens (and the union does not recertify), we will have to re-think our position," said league vice president and counsel Jeff Pash.
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Len Pasquarelli
Not only did it take more than four months to forge an accord that could last for a half-generation, but the debate among owners Thursday took nearly nine hours. No one characterized the discussion among owners as heated, but there were several technicalities and ramifications to overcome and explain.

Said one AFC owner: "Man, it's a (friggin') barrel of monkeys in there."
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:barrelofmonkeys:
 
'wdcrob said:
I don't think it's a problem that the players hadn't seen it yet, provided the agreement the owners was a good-faith effort to reflect what had been negotiated. And I don't think it's a problem for the players to slow down and make sure that the legal document is in order. Odds are that's what's happening and all the hoopla is just fog of war type stuff.If one side or the other is using the tight timeline or confusion to try and squeeze the other after a handshake agreement was in place it's a really stupid way to do business though.
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:goodposting:
 
The players are flexing their baby muscles and are proving to be very disorganized. I don't blame De Smith though.

 
So wait...Heath Evans tweeted over two hours ago that owners pulling a bait and switch, but Kirk Morrison on NFLN just said that they got th full proposal from the owners an hour ago.

C'mon guys, if you're going to cry foul, at least get your stories straight.

 
My take on this.

- Every week of the preseason costs the revenue pie about $250 Million.

- Because of this, a deal needs to get done ASAP

- Although 95% of the issues were solved, there are some things that the sides still have not fully solved.

- The owners opted to solve those 5% and wrote in how they would like them solved. They then voted on this plan and put it in the players court.

This reminds me of messy divorces. The lawyers on both sides will argue forever if the divorcing couple doesn't stop it. That $100 microwave can cost you thousands if you let the lawyers go forever. The big question right now is what is it worth to solve the last 5% of problems? It may sound like this was underhanded by the owners to ram through the last items. But by doing so, I think we get quick resolution on these last issues. and my gut feeling is these last issues aren't worth $250 Million in lost revenues that a delay will present.

 
'N Zone said:
NFLPA: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d820e6ed4/article/nflpa-shows-displeasure-with-league-in-email-to-player-reps?module=HP11_hot_topics
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heres a fun lockout madlib... Dear NFLPA, _____ you! As fans, we are really tired of this ________, and wouldn't mind at all if each and every one of you got _________ in the ____ by a rabid monkey with aids. I sincerely hope DeMaurice Smith gets crabs from a Filipino ________, and that anyone that steps in the way of there being football on time this year has their ________ cut off with a rusty hack saw.
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I chuckled
 
'The Dynasty said:
Don't know how much stock you can put into this but a member of my league has a brother-in-law plays in the NFL and he says the good news is being way overhyped by the owners to try to pressure the players into getting a deal done quickly.
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Posted this four days ago when everyone thought a deal was certain. The player we know said this was coming. He said the owners were using a power play to make the players look bad and the players really weren't being involved in this. :shrug:
 
Chris Mortensen is reporting the players' leadership received the approved proposal and a player vote is likely Friday.

@mortreport Chris Mortensen (10:38 p.m. CST)

Good news. Players wrapped call, then leadership received final details. Vote can come tomorrow if they can satisfy a finishing detail or 2.

@mortreport Chris Mortensen (10:42 p.m. CST)

Players want lockout lifted if/after they vote yes, then sign player union cards at team facility, collected by reps and regional directors

No need to trash those draft boards just yet... :popcorn:

 
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'TheDirtyWord said:
So wait...Heath Evans tweeted over two hours ago that owners pulling a bait and switch, but Kirk Morrison on NFLN just said that they got th full proposal from the owners an hour ago.C'mon guys, if you're going to cry foul, at least get your stories straight.
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The blind leading the blind. Negotiating with this crew is futile.
 
'JuSt CuZ said:
...Greg Bedard just reported, players do have the proposal owners voted on now, but it came after their conference call.How can Heath Evans even know if things were in it, if he didnt see it. I'm a Saints fan, I hope we dont resign him, he is moronic. lol, I'm venting. at his stupidity....
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This. ESPN was nearly as bad as the players were. I was starting to wonder if they were trying to turn it into a fiasco or if Trey Wingo was really that stupid. They had three of them saying how missing the preseason would only hurt the owners because they are the ones that make the money. :confused: :rolleyes: FInally Schefter set them straight that if they don't make the preseason money, the players don't get their 48% of that money included in the salary cap and in thus in their contracts.
 
'GregR said:
'JuSt CuZ said:
...Greg Bedard just reported, players do have the proposal owners voted on now, but it came after their conference call.How can Heath Evans even know if things were in it, if he didnt see it. I'm a Saints fan, I hope we dont resign him, he is moronic. lol, I'm venting. at his stupidity....
Click to expand...
This. ESPN was nearly as bad as the players were. I was starting to wonder if they were trying to turn it into a fiasco or if Trey Wingo was really that stupid. They had three of them saying how missing the preseason would only hurt the owners because they are the ones that make the money. :confused: :rolleyes: FInally Schefter set them straight that if they don't make the preseason money, the players don't get their 48% of that money included in the salary cap and in thus in their contracts.
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How much money is that? TV rights dont cover preseason.
 
'Novice2 said:
heres a fun lockout madlib... Dear NFLPA, _____ you! As fans, we are really tired of this ________, and wouldn't mind at all if each and every one of you got _________ in the ____ by a rabid monkey with aids. I sincerely hope DeMaurice Smith gets crabs from a Filipino ________, and that anyone that steps in the way of there being football on time this year has their ________ cut off with a rusty hack saw.
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I chuckled
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Dear NFLPA, thank you! As fans, we are really tired of this bait and switch money grab by the owners, and wouldn't mind at all if each and every one of you got blue ribbons pinned in the lapel region of your suits by a rabid monkey with aids. I sincerely hope DeMaurice Smith gets crabs from a Filipino eatery renowned for their seafood, and that anyone that steps in the way of there being football on time this year has their locks on their training facilities cut off with a rusty hack saw.How did I do?
 
'Truman said:
'GregR said:
'JuSt CuZ said:
...Greg Bedard just reported, players do have the proposal owners voted on now, but it came after their conference call.How can Heath Evans even know if things were in it, if he didnt see it. I'm a Saints fan, I hope we dont resign him, he is moronic. lol, I'm venting. at his stupidity....
Click to expand...
This. ESPN was nearly as bad as the players were. I was starting to wonder if they were trying to turn it into a fiasco or if Trey Wingo was really that stupid. They had three of them saying how missing the preseason would only hurt the owners because they are the ones that make the money. :confused: :rolleyes: FInally Schefter set them straight that if they don't make the preseason money, the players don't get their 48% of that money included in the salary cap and in thus in their contracts.
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How much money is that? TV rights dont cover preseason.
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Actually they do have TV rights with preseason, both the 1 nationally televised game each week, plus each team's deal with a local station to carry their preseason. They also have the ticket sales, and since teams require you to buy preseason tickets with season tickets, that's a fair amount.I believe Schefter said today the estimate is $250 million a week. I thought I'd heard previously though $800 million for the entire preseason.
 
Wow.... I really did not think I would feel this way regardless of what happened but I am on the verge of saying screw you NFL and just getting way into college football.... basically like what I did with the NBA.

The NFLPA looks to be making the keystone cops look good here. What the heck did they expect would happen when you bring in a bunch of football players in on a huge and complex deal at the last moment when they have not been brought along thru the whole process? The players need to get a grip- realize that this is a deal that both sides can easily live with.

This is sickening.

 
This is agonizing as a fan. I would rather them tell me that there will not be any football this season so I can move on find a new passion.....rather than being dragged through deadlines that neither side is taking seriously.

 
'King of the Jungle said:
This is agonizing as a fan. I would rather them tell me that there will not be any football this season so I can move on find a new passion.....rather than being dragged through deadlines that neither side is taking seriously.
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Well, the players sure did their part to make this a brutal conclusion. [/baitandswitch]It's all going to be fine later today. Rejoice.
 
'fatness said:
'ceo3west said:
The owners just agreed to their own proposal, this thing is far from done.
Click to expand...
Correct.
According to multiple sources, players are saying the owners slipped in new elements to a deal that were never agreed to at the negotiating table. Players have taken to Twitter to voice their extreme displeasure with the owners voting tonight, with Vonnie Holliday of the Redskins provided the most telling tweet of them all:

No reason to lie! Truth of the matter is we got tricked, duped, hoodwinked, bamboozled!
Click to expand...
Basically, what it seems the owners have done is agree on a CBA the players have not seen.
Click to expand...
link
Click to expand...
:lmao: Flaming bias is amusing. Fatness, I hope you and wdcrob aren't too put out that we'll have football this year. You two guys were champs for a big messy fight all along, and it must be such a disappointment to know that the games won't be missed. At least we lost the HOF game right?

 
Just a quick thought about why a lot of the players and player reps were not kept up to speed on all of the negotiating recently. We've seen the amount and quality of tweeting, etc., from the players just this week, so do you really think it would be wise for the negotiators to share details with all of these bozos while in the most delicate phase of finalizing a deal? I don't think so, so I'm not surprised a lot of the reps and players don't have a clue about the final details. Add to that the last minute revisions included by the owners and everyone should see the need for the NFLPA* to take time to review the plan voted on by the owners and then do some education of the players and reps. Here's hoping that there isn't anything too earth-shattering in that plan to cause the players to balk. Also important to recognize that there is no ability to opt out of this plan for 10 years (from what I've heard), so both sides better make damn sure they can live with everything in the plan.

 
'King of the Jungle said:
This is agonizing as a fan. I would rather them tell me that there will not be any football this season so I can move on find a new passion.....rather than being dragged through deadlines that neither side is taking seriously.
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:goodposting: And if I hear one more freaking player say that they have no timeline and are not in a rush.... I am going to do something.... not sure what yet... but something.
 
they had a handshake agreement with D and the executive negotiating committee. The only revision was with the owners of revenue sharing. That's none of the players business. The players are either confused or they are the ones pulling the bait and switch here.

 
'cobalt_27 said:
they had a handshake agreement with D and the executive negotiating committee. The only revision was with the owners of revenue sharing. That's none of the players business. The players are either confused or they are the ones pulling the bait and switch here.
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I'd say the revenue sharing has to do with the revenue sharing WITH the players. Otherwise there would be no reason for it to be in the CBA.
 
The NFL is far from broken. It’s one of the few products America still produces far better than the rest of the world.

The lockout has been one long, poorly executed bluff. Goodell and his bosses have been pretending they’d rather blow up the league than honor the partnership and deal Gene Upshaw and Paul Tagliabue forged.

For years, Upshaw was portrayed as an ownership lapdog and a bumbling idiot not competent enough to land NFL players guaranteed contracts. The narrative changed once Upshaw died and greedy owners saw his death as an opportunity to fleece what was perceived to be a weakened union. The new narrative is Upshaw cut a deal that was too sweet for the players. The previous collective bargaining agreement -- the one ownership opted out of two years early -- was so heavily weighted in favor of the players that ownership was allegedly willing to skip regular-season games to break the union.

Do you believe that now?

Seventeen days before the ceremonial Hall of Fame Game, the owners and Goodell hatched a Hail Mary public-relations ploy trying to bully the players into agreeing to a deal the players had yet to read. Goodell held a news conference proclaiming the lockout over. "We have crafted a long-term agreement that is good for the game of football,” Goodell told the media in Atlanta. “We are anxious to get back to football. It is time to get back to football. That is what everybody here wants to do.”

The players hadn’t agreed to anything. And if the players want to be daring, they shouldn’t agree to a new deal for a few more weeks. I’m serious.

Upshaw did not cut a deal that was too good to be true. He cut a fair deal. The players take all of the real risks. There is no reason to roll back the money players earn.

Most important from a negotiating standpoint, it’s clear now the owners are more desperate for a new collective bargaining agreement than the players. Peter King wrote the NFL’s boring-as-televised-poker exhibition season is worth $800 million.

The NFL’s lone problem is greedy owners. There’s nothing else significantly wrong with the game. This lockout was a bogus waste of time.
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Whitlock
 
'roarlions said:
Just a quick thought about why a lot of the players and player reps were not kept up to speed on all of the negotiating recently. We've seen the amount and quality of tweeting, etc., from the players just this week, so do you really think it would be wise for the negotiators to share details with all of these bozos while in the most delicate phase of finalizing a deal? I don't think so, so I'm not surprised a lot of the reps and players don't have a clue about the final details. Add to that the last minute revisions included by the owners and everyone should see the need for the NFLPA* to take time to review the plan voted on by the owners and then do some education of the players and reps. Here's hoping that there isn't anything too earth-shattering in that plan to cause the players to balk. Also important to recognize that there is no ability to opt out of this plan for 10 years (from what I've heard), so both sides better make damn sure they can live with everything in the plan.
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:goodposting:The players and reps are likely seeing many of the negotiated points for the first time and it differs greatly from their original demands and last CBA. In addition, if the owners were stupid enough to add something significant that wasn't previously negotiated, D Smith would be all over it. By voting first, the owners have the public firmly on their side. Smith wouldn't miss a chance to flip that his way if the owners tried to make a last minute, significant change to an agreed upon deal.
 
'fatness said:
In the hours following the owners' 31-0 vote to ratify a settlement proposal that would end the four-month-old lockout, NFLPA general counsel Richard Berthelsen sent a second email out to player reps on Thursday night detailing the issues with the potential deal. NFL Network obtained a copy of the email, which took issue with the league setting a rough timetable for the NFLPA to reform as a union.

"In addition to depriving the players of the time needed to consider forming a union and making needed changes to the old agreement, this proposed procedure would, in my view, also violate federal labor laws," Berthelsen said in the email. "Those laws prohibit employers from coercing their employees into forming a union and could result in any agreement reached through the procedure being declared null and void."

The email said the league "demands that the players reform as a union and provide evidence by Tuesday, July 26, that a majority of players have signed union authorization cards."

It also said that the new CBA includes "virtually all provisions of the old CBA" and that, after voting on it, by July 26, the players would only have three days to bargain changes in terms. The agreement, it goes on, "would become final on Saturday, July 30. If the NFL does not agree to the players' proposed changes, the old CBA terms on benefits, discipline, safety, etc., will remain unchanged for another 10 years."
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Albert Breer
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So wait, one of the Players' lawyers is mad because the owners wants to force them to join a union and sign a contract where they're eligible lifetime health benefits?That's happening all across the country. Except in complete opposite.

 
The four-months plus impasse that has engulfed the NFL isn’t over. The question now is how fast the players will react to what is essentially a 10-year, take-it-or-leave-it offer.

The league even added an enticement, promising to lift the lockout on Saturday and open the doors to training facilities to all players under contract if the NFLPA’s executive committee gave an initial approval advising the rest of the players to approve the deal when the NFLPA re-certifies as a union.

To put this in terms that most folks can understand: the NFL is like someone who is selling a home. The catch is the buyer doesn’t get to have the place inspected before he signs on the bottom line.
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Jason Cole
 
'wdcrob said:
Has anyone seen anything since late last night that suggests what's going to happen today?
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All the espn reporters are saying the players have.actually reviewed the owners.proposal and have cooled off a lot. They are expecting a vote today.It seems like the "evil owners" didnt really try to screw the players and that the "new" parts of the deal arent really problematic. But I will believe it when i see it.
 
'fatness said:
The four-months plus impasse that has engulfed the NFL isn’t over. The question now is how fast the players will react to what is essentially a 10-year, take-it-or-leave-it offer.

The league even added an enticement, promising to lift the lockout on Saturday and open the doors to training facilities to all players under contract if the NFLPA’s executive committee gave an initial approval advising the rest of the players to approve the deal when the NFLPA re-certifies as a union.

To put this in terms that most folks can understand: the NFL is like someone who is selling a home. The catch is the buyer doesn’t get to have the place inspected before he signs on the bottom line.
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Jason Cole
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Bolded = what I thought it was.This is what you get, our offer will only get worse as we lose pre-season games, or lets fight in court.

 
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