Just a guess, but I think it may have to do with the old CBA specifying that the union had to wait until 6 months after the CBA expired in order to file an anti trust lawsuit. September is 6 months from the expiration of the cba so the union will be free to file (re-file) then.
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Labor Dispute Master Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Boylan has meetings scheduled for July 18th and 19th in Minny. Im highly doubting anything gets done before the 15th without him there.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgjwRJuEPhGIHDfZqsN9J4s5nYcB?slug=ap-nfllabor
MINNEAPOLIS (AP)—The federal magistrate judge who is mediating the labor dispute between NFL owners and players has scheduled another session for July 19 in Minneapolis.
Judge Arthur J. Boylan set the meeting on Saturday, just before starting his vacation. But he also made clear that both sides should continue their own sessions in the interim as they work toward a new collective bargaining agreement.
The principals in the fight over how to split up over $9 billion in revenue met all week in New York, but still have not reached a new deal as the lockout has dragged on for more than four months.
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The urgency, it appears, is starting to heat up. Several teams have already canceled their traditional out-of-town portions of training camp and the Hall of Fame game between Chicago and St. Louis is less than a month away.
Boylan ordered both sides to continue mediation without him “in an effort to define and narrow the differences between their respective settlement positions.” He also ordered attorneys from both sides to be ready to meet with him on the evening of July 18 “for an in-person agenda- setting session” that presumably would set the stage for meaningful, fruitful talks the following day.
After putting in two days in New York this week, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players’ Association chief DeMaurice Smith announced that they were taking the weekend off. They plan to resume negotiations on Monday in what will be the first mediation sessions with owners and players present that does not include Boylan.
If the league and players have not reached a deal by the time they are scheduled to meet with Boylan in Minneapolis, it could be bad news for training camps and perhaps even preseason games. The Giants, Jets and Ravens have already announced that, no matter when an agreement is reached, they will conduct all of their preseason work at their primary facilities rather than leave for various college campuses, a time-honored tradition that coaches embrace as a team-building exercise and small towns across the country depend upon for tourism revenue.
The Vikings have already said that if an agreement is not reached by July 18, they will have to cancel training camp at Minnesota State University in Mankato, where they have held two-a-days every summer since 1966.
And the Rams and Bears are scheduled to kick off the preseason with a game in Canton, Ohio on Aug. 7, just two and a half weeks after Boylan’s scheduled meeting on the 19th.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgjwRJuEPhGIHDfZqsN9J4s5nYcB?slug=ap-nfllabor
MINNEAPOLIS (AP)—The federal magistrate judge who is mediating the labor dispute between NFL owners and players has scheduled another session for July 19 in Minneapolis.
Judge Arthur J. Boylan set the meeting on Saturday, just before starting his vacation. But he also made clear that both sides should continue their own sessions in the interim as they work toward a new collective bargaining agreement.
The principals in the fight over how to split up over $9 billion in revenue met all week in New York, but still have not reached a new deal as the lockout has dragged on for more than four months.
Related Coverage.
Join the Rally
.
The urgency, it appears, is starting to heat up. Several teams have already canceled their traditional out-of-town portions of training camp and the Hall of Fame game between Chicago and St. Louis is less than a month away.
Boylan ordered both sides to continue mediation without him “in an effort to define and narrow the differences between their respective settlement positions.” He also ordered attorneys from both sides to be ready to meet with him on the evening of July 18 “for an in-person agenda- setting session” that presumably would set the stage for meaningful, fruitful talks the following day.
After putting in two days in New York this week, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players’ Association chief DeMaurice Smith announced that they were taking the weekend off. They plan to resume negotiations on Monday in what will be the first mediation sessions with owners and players present that does not include Boylan.
If the league and players have not reached a deal by the time they are scheduled to meet with Boylan in Minneapolis, it could be bad news for training camps and perhaps even preseason games. The Giants, Jets and Ravens have already announced that, no matter when an agreement is reached, they will conduct all of their preseason work at their primary facilities rather than leave for various college campuses, a time-honored tradition that coaches embrace as a team-building exercise and small towns across the country depend upon for tourism revenue.
The Vikings have already said that if an agreement is not reached by July 18, they will have to cancel training camp at Minnesota State University in Mankato, where they have held two-a-days every summer since 1966.
And the Rams and Bears are scheduled to kick off the preseason with a game in Canton, Ohio on Aug. 7, just two and a half weeks after Boylan’s scheduled meeting on the 19th.
My hopes are this is Boylan just reminding everyone he isn't going away. However, if there is no deal by 7-15-11, the Hall of Fame Game is done and probably the next week as well. The NFL says a missed preseason week is around $250 million ( billion lost for entire preseason). Whether you believe that or not, the owners do. Once that first week goes, then they will want the players to eat that . The players will not eat it and this thing becomes almost impossible to settle. We have been hearing for 4 months that its too much money not to settle. Thats assuming reasonable minds are involved who put the game first. Does anyone think Jerry Jones, Dee Smith and Kessler fit this description. I don't. I like Goodell but I think he can't move any of the primary players. If they settle I will be back. But if they don't , I hope MLB goes back to # 1.
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Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
The mediator is really going on vacation? How about postponing it for a few weeks and getting this done? Joke.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
The deal must not even be close or I think he would have.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Either way get to work.
maybe the judge just puts his family above his job? This guy isnt making millions of dollars like the people he is mediating. I do think this july 19th meeting is a "if you dont settle this by the time I get back, so help me..." I mean, july 19th isnt just a negotiation session. This is a mandatory "get all your decision making asses in my office, we are having a come to jesus meeting" I think it is a threat and it may also be a situation where he says "ok, I wasnt able to help you, we met, we got the issuea out, you wont sign the dotted line. Enjoy court." My guess is that its an all in attempt to get them to settle before he gets back
The owners and players have had a VERY long time to "get to work" on a new deal.
coolnerd
Footballguy
I will assume that a career judge is not exactly in the breadline and has enough power by his position to not be intimidated by guys with money. He was scheduled to take his vacation and he is going to take it. Overall, the attitude of the courts in this seems to have been1) There really is not reason for the two sides not to be able to figure it out. 2) The courts will expediate here and there, overall they are treating the NFL/NFLPA* as much like another case as possible.3) Even when it appears that a side wins, there always seems to be language in the ruling which prevents a true leverage hammer being given to the other.IMO, courts while understanding this is a public case, really don't want to make any rulings which give either side unfair leverage nor that sets some long-term labor precident. the judges all seem to believe that these two could (really should have) already figured this thing out without its help.
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cobalt_27
Footballguy
Yup. I'm with Boylan here. Take you're freaking vacation, you deserved it. The clowns he left behind can figure out whether they are serious enough about getting a deal done or not while he's gone.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
No argument here. The whole thing is disgusting. You have billionaires and millionaires arguing over how to cut up future money from fans who are struggling through a lousy economy. Not to mention the peripheral people counting on the league to make their living. I'm just saying with a deadline looming to start the season as scheduled it's a little nuts to me to see the guy go on vacation.
I am thinking he thought the deal should have closed this week. By leaving and setting the follow up date, he is saying guys, there's nothing else I can do. Its not his repsonsibility to settle the dispute. I don't blame him for taking a vacation. I would probably puke if I had to listen to all the crap in just one negotiating session.
It's not his responsibility to settle it. This should have been done by the players and the owners a long time ago.
JuSt CuZ
Footballguy
What can be more important to anyone involved then getting this done? 
Unless a major family illness, nothing. Get this done, I now believe they have no intention on making any deal at all. 
If Goodell or Smith was going on vacation I would be pissed. It's a judge who isn't and shouldn't be at the beck and call of the NFL or the Players.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Boylan is not the answer here. He's a facilitator, and if the parties don't want to cooperate, that's not his problem. Don't make him out to be the scapegoat here. It's the owners and players who are dicking around with this.
fatness
Footballguy
I agree. It's not the job of a federal judge to babysit the NFL players and owners to keep them from stumbling their way into losing millions or billions of dollars.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Nobody is making him the scapegoat. I just don't understand the guy going on vacation at this point in the proceedings. Postpone the thing a few weeks. Hershey Park, or wherever he's going, will be still be there.Boylan is not the answer here. He's a facilitator, and if the parties don't want to cooperate, that's not his problem. Don't make him out to be the scapegoat here. It's the owners and players who are dicking around with this.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
And, the owners and players will be there when he returns. Why should he and his family rearrange their scheduled time together just so the owners and players can continue playing a game of chicken with each other.Nobody is making him the scapegoat. I just don't understand the guy going on vacation at this point in the proceedings. Postpone the thing a few weeks. Hershey Park, or wherever he's going, will be still be there.Boylan is not the answer here. He's a facilitator, and if the parties don't want to cooperate, that's not his problem. Don't make him out to be the scapegoat here. It's the owners and players who are dicking around with this.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Because the drop dead date for starting things on time is the end of this week. I blame the owners mostly and the players some too but I don't understand anyone defending someone so closely involved with the proceedings decision to take a vacation right now. I understand it's not his responsibility to get the deal done but to not hold off for a few weeks on a trip to Dollywood is mind-boggling to me. Hey guys I know the deadline is tonight at midnight but I gotta leave at 4:30 because I wanna ride my bike.
coolnerd
Footballguy
Actually, it is more like the parent tired of two kids arguing over snacks (which there is more than enough) going to watch the rest of the game and saying I come back all I want to hear is how the snacks are divided.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
A) there is no drop dead date, B) it's not his responsibility to get things started on their schedule, C) it's not like they can't negotiate without him, and D) It's not like we're dealing with an invasion of Afghanistan here. This is a money dispute between two parties who are quibbling over how to share profits. He's given them ample amount of time and effort, and there's no reason for him to clear out his schedule to work with them. They understood his schedule. It actually functioned as an artificial timeline to stress some urgency in coming to an agreement before he left, and they still couldn't work out their differences.Totally 100% think he should have said "See ya!" like he did.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
If it's some kind of master arbitration technique to go on vacation as the deadline approaches and passes I'll take it back but I just can't imagine that it is. Get Mills Lane in there or something. A hypnotist maybe. Anything. I'm praying that Smith knows if this thing goes past a certain point that all the players can do is lose more.
Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Everything I'm seeing says the 15th is the date they have to make a deal by to avoid an interruption to start of camps. We'll just disagree. I just can't understand going on a vacation right now. This money dispute reaches far beyond the sides directly involved. Gonna be hundreds of families who won't be able to afford a vacation if this thing isn't settled soon.
JuSt CuZ
Footballguy
I was really refering to the fact that they are taking the weekend off, and not meeting as a group again until Tuesday. They don't need the judge, they just need to stay locked in room.No time should be taken off by either side in this most crucial week of discussion to date.Nobody is making him the scapegoat. I just don't understand the guy going on vacation at this point in the proceedings. Postpone the thing a few weeks. Hershey Park, or wherever he's going, will be still be there.Boylan is not the answer here. He's a facilitator, and if the parties don't want to cooperate, that's not his problem. Don't make him out to be the scapegoat here. It's the owners and players who are dicking around with this.
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Hoart Petterson
Footballguy
Each side needs time to inform their side as to what's going on and how to proceed. They need time away for that. What i don't understand is a mediator who's been described as poised, fair, a tremendous asset to the discussions and someone who's committed on reach a resolution going on vacation when discussions are at a critical stage.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Right. And, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But, this just isn't his responsibility. The two sides are big boys and girls, and they clearly don't have the sense of urgency right now to work it out. I mean, if they're taking days off from negotiations repeatedly, it's clearly not for him and his family to stay put so they can jerk each other around. That's not his role.
Negotiations over rookie pay system caused problems on Friday:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/nfl-lockout-rookie-pay-system-among-remaining-negotiating-obstacles/2011/07/09/gIQARHC55H_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/nfl-lockout-rookie-pay-system-among-remaining-negotiating-obstacles/2011/07/09/gIQARHC55H_story.html
dparker713
Footballguy
See, courts and judges don't conform to anyone's deadlines but their own. This case is not bigger than the courts.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Clayton with a ray of sunshine (via Rotoworld):
this is a shockerwho knew that the rookie pay scale would even be an issueIt's not like they didn't have like 2 years to work on this issue -since it came up at the last minute
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I've been keeping up to date on the Lockout from Andrew Brandt (National Football Post). He seems to know his stuff. Thought this was funny. He just posted this on his twitter account.
ADBrandt
Checked in for flight. Gate agent asked about lockout, I asked about change from middle seat. Neither of us got answer we wanted.
ADBrandt
Checked in for flight. Gate agent asked about lockout, I asked about change from middle seat. Neither of us got answer we wanted.
Go DC Yourself
Footballguy
So let me get this straight. Muli-billion dollar owners and multi-million dollar players jack around for months, already affecting the livelihood of these families you talk about, and you complain about the judge, who makes a fraction of what the owners and players make? Here's an idea, if the presence of a mediator is so important, let the owners and players pay for one, instead of relying on the taxpayers to foot the bill. And the snide comments about Dollywood and Hershey Park really don't do you argument any good.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Im sure the judge is a reasonable man, and this leads me to think one of two things 1- they are extremely close and dont need him for this week, or 2- they are not close and he is sick of it and wasnt going to change his plans for this. Also the fact that the NFL and NFLPA didnt "work" the weekend is bothersome with the pre-season fast approaching.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
JuSt CuZ
Footballguy
At this point I believe nothing, not one little word from any one, including the media. They has been reporting everything to make our emotions go up and down, to keepo us paying attention to them. At this point how can you believe anything until a deal is signed, not an agreement, not a handshake, a signed deal. The media has no intention on giving us the right details, just the details that keep people looking at their stories.However, the info in the last info is detailed.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
If a rookie cap is imposed, doesn't it increase the odds that a high pick will forego signing with the team that drafted him? Then what?
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
They would hold his rights until he signs or until the next draft (or perhaps longer). He would then still only get the same "offer" (since their is a cap), while also taking the chance that his draft stock would fall based on the holdout, while also losing a year towards his free agency and bigger payday. I don't anticipate many players would go that route. What would be the advantage?
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Aren't all those factors in play now? Why doesn't it ever happen? If the negative ramifications to the player are so huge, why do clubs think they are overpaying high picks?
bengalbuck
Footballguy
It seems like the NFL is just moving more towards an NBA system as far as rookie salaries...Has that ever happened in the NBA? I don't think it has. I think its a non-issue.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Ricky Rubio? (held out for 2 or 3 years, is coming next NBA season, wasnt for money though I think he just didnt want to play in minnesota) although the Europe league thing is something the NFL doesnt have to worry about.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
The fact that there's an increasingly viable alternative in Europe for NBA players is an important distinction. NFL rookies only have the nuclear option. So far they haven't used it. They've been able to parlay an owner's fear of losing a top pick into pretty nice contracts. I am suggesting that tilting the negotiating rules more heavily in favor of the teams could result in more players considering dropping the bomb.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm not sure that I'm following your questions. Why don't they hold out now? For the same reason, no advantage.As far as the underlying issue - (should there be a rookie cap?) - I don't really care either way, but can understand it as most businesses have "entry level" pay scales.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Maybe I should be turning my question around. If there's no advantage to a rookie holdout, then why are owners complaining that they are forced to overpay for top picks? If it's unlikely that they'll hold out, then why pay so much? Why does this need to be part of the CBA?
Might be that it would take coordinated action among all (most?) owners to hold down contracts across the board. Seems like the way the NFL works is that contracts are based on what the players drafted around a pick are paid and what a particular draft slot received the year before. So while any particular team could play hardball and offer a significantly lower contract to a top pick, it probably wouldn't help any other team unless there was a coordinated effort to lower offers across the board, and we all know that would be illegal. So getting a rookie wage scale into the CBA benefits all teams without risking collusion.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Yenrub
Footballguy
I agree it doesn’t need to be part of the CBAIt’s there so the owners can protect themselves …… from themselves
roadkill1292
Footballguy
This is certainly my conclusion as well. What I'm also trying to say, however (and apparently poorly), is that as the league continues to squeeze rookies, the risk of a season long holdout increases as the possible compensation decreases; high picks have less to lose.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think the stigma with the fans of not getting their rookies into camp, plus not securing usage of a commodity come into play. Also the market had up to that point established what each pick was worth. By putting the rookie scal into the CBA - the market then comes back to "reality". I know where you are trying to go with this, but I happen to think it's better for the health of the sport for team not to be bled dry by a busted to pick.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If the CBA sets the market, there is nothing to gain by holding out. Lose a year of service time, lose money (on two fronts potentially, a year's pay plus a drop in draft stock).Let's face it, the "squeeze" you speak of is relative. For these rookies making $35MM insead of $65MM is not a real loss, as to them the $65MM is now not a possibility. You would now be asking a kid to give up a year where he would make $2-4MM right out of college out of the "principal" of fighting against a rookie wage scal. I don't see it happening.
