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Lane Kiffin is still a tool..... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter hustedj
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No Way Jose
Footballguy
I can confirm this....I'm pretty sure he won't be welcome in the state of Tennessee any time soon.
Sopranos25
Footballguy
In todays world this doe not shock me at all. its dog eat dog world and it seems no one does the right thing. Problem is it will become standard soon. No one has standards. its all about them. its sad really
VaTerp
Footballguy
I agree with you to a point. But why is it that Kiffin's name is one of the only ones consistently brought up when it comes to certain things. I work with a high level AAU basketball organization and interact with a lot of college basketball coaches. Coaching is a pretty tight nit profession, there are certain protocols that people follow, and you will rarely hear a coach calling another coach out the way Kiffin has been NUMEROUS times unless there is very good reason to do so.
So I don't think it's as much about "no one has standards" as it is about Kiffin just being a major ### and for whatever reason (I guess b/c he has to this point) thinking he will continue to get away with it.
harryhood
Footballguy
Not a Kiffin fan but lets get real here. This "unspoken" word schtick I can buy to a minor extent, but it doesn't always cross into college - pros. He was giving a guy at the NFL level a promotion in the college ranks. Does the software company you are interviewing for contact the IT Dept. that you currently work at to let them know they are courting one of their men?
Do you ask the girls boyfriend permission to make a pass at her before you do it? No.
These two coaches are trying to be successful inside their own worlds, which do not cross paths competitively. Every time I have interviewed for a new position internally or externally I have let my current boss know. Why does the RB coach not have to be held up to the same standard? Piling on Kiffin here in my opinion.
Do you ask the girls boyfriend permission to make a pass at her before you do it? No.
These two coaches are trying to be successful inside their own worlds, which do not cross paths competitively. Every time I have interviewed for a new position internally or externally I have let my current boss know. Why does the RB coach not have to be held up to the same standard? Piling on Kiffin here in my opinion.
Sopranos25
Footballguy
I do agree. He didnt do anything bush, But why not do it proper? Do the right thing and the word would be right with no conflict. Only you can do it
FunkyPlutos
Footballguy
Eric Bienemy (Vikings' RB coach) turned him down first so it isn't like it was a big secret that he was looking at NFL coaches.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
Frequently, yes, but not out of professional courtesy as much as investigating the potential investment.harryhood said:
Completely different situation. Generally the only time you completely discount the present boyfriend is because you have absolutely no relationship with him or you actively dislike him. That's not the same as fellow coaches.
Where does it say Pola didn't let Fisher know? My assumption is that Fisher found out when Pola told him, and that Fisher expected Kiffin to let him know ahead of time that Kiffin was going to approach a member of Fisher's coaching staff.I'll agree that this may seem a bit of an overreaction to a slight, but if anybody's in the wrong here, it appears to be Kiffin.
No Way Jose
Footballguy
Bottom line is that Kiffin doesn't care. He doesn't care who he pisses off on recuiting and he doesn't care what coach he pisses off. This is nothing new for him and I would expect nothing less. The only thing that he cares about is his job at that time. Which is good I guess, if you are a USC fan. Kiffin is a young coach, and will not last in this profession any length of time if continues to break these unwritten rules. And I feel sorry for this Pola guy because he probably thinks he might actually be the OC at USC. And he won't. There is a reason, imo, that it took him this long to find an OC. Because nobody wants to work for him.
harryhood
Footballguy
"To call me and leave me a voicemail after Kennedy had informed me he had taken the job. It is just a lack of professionalism."So yes, Pola did tell him , but that quote tells me Fischer found out after all was said and done. Wouldn't have it been more professional for Pola to tell Fischer that he was interviewing for the OC job at USC BEFORE he was even given it? Sounds like both Pola and Kiffin didn't feel the need to inform Fischer of anything before hand.
Polar Dude
Footballguy
We still don't know, from that quote, that things went down the way you say they did. All we know is that Kiffin called after Pola informed him he had taken the job. That quote does not really suggest that the first time he heard about it was when the deal was already done. I'm not saying it couldn't have gone down that way, just that this quote doesn't really suggest it. There are a lot of things worth getting worked up over, something that we aren't sure even happened probably isn't one of them.
bagger
Footballguy
Do you tell your boss that you are interviewing before you have a new job lined up?
No Way Jose
Footballguy
I'm guessing Jeff is a little bitter since he basically fired a good running backs coach so that he could hire Pola from Jax. Now he is back at square one.
No Way Jose
Footballguy
Yes....at many places it is grounds for dismissal if you interview for a job, without informing your employer.
bagger
Footballguy
In many places they'll just let you go if you do, especially in coaching.
loose circuits
Footballguy
I don't see the problem here. Seems like everything happened so quickly that there wasn't enough time to inform the coach.
bagger
Footballguy
It's obviously time to downgrade Chris Johnson based on this aggregious act by USC since TEN is so hurt by it.If Tennessee is going to sue USC over anything, it should be them drafting LenDale White.
sholditch
Footballguy
I can not wait to see USC flounder and fail under this clown. He is a JOKE. A complete joke, and I can't think of two...things...that deserve each other more than Lane Kiffin and USC. I hope it ends with neither one ever again being regarded as a contender for anything. BTW, did I mention how much I hate Lane Kiffin and USC?
Don Quixote
Footballguy
Copy of the complaint is out: Fanhouse
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ETA: Also, here is a link to Clay Travis's take on the lawsuit (he's an attorney and Nashville resident who writes for Fanhouse): Travis column on lawsuit.
:
ETA: Also, here is a link to Clay Travis's take on the lawsuit (he's an attorney and Nashville resident who writes for Fanhouse): Travis column on lawsuit.
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Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
That's a POS move by the Titans. There is no way this well ever fly. Fisher is just being a jerk hole and trying to stir up problems for Kiffen. The verbage they are using states that they are fighting other peoples battles. This stuff happens all the time and it's only getting publicity because people want to hate on Kiffin. Even ESPN personalities have said as much about their own companies smear agenda. Drama is a good thing for ratings. I have lost more respect for Fisher in this whole ordeal with his whole crybaby act.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
gump
Footballguy
Was it not? I thought I read it was...football programs only of course.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
From Fanhouse...
The Tennessee Titans filed suit against USC and Lane Kiffin on Monday afternoon in Davidson County Chancery Court. Included in that suit were two specific counts. Count one alleges that USC and Kiffin provided Kennedy Pola, the running backs coach who left for USC, "inducement of breach of contract." This claim is statutory, rooted in Tennessee Code Annotated Section 47-50-109. The second count accuses Kiffin and USC of engaging in common law tortious interference with the contract. The Titans request treble damages, a jury trial, punitive damages, and such other relief as the court deems proper.
Now let's dive into a complaint that is sure to burn a few bridges between USC alum Jeff Fisher and his alma mater, while at the same time becoming the greatest public relations move in the history of any NFL franchise. First, the Titans allege that Kennedy Pola breached his contract. (Breach is a legal term that effectively means "violated" or "broke.") But they aren't suing Pola, at least not yet, for breaching that employment contract. Instead, they are suing USC and Kiffin for causing the breach by inducing and interfering with that contract.
Per the complaint, Kiffin first contacted Pola about the job offer on Friday, July 23rd (the complaint says the 22nd, but Friday was actually the 23rd) when he called Pola, then located in Nashville, and offered him the job of offensive coordinator and running backs coach at USC. Pola breached his Titans employment contract by engaging in contract discussions with another party and not obtaining the written consent of the Tennessee Titans prior to doing so. In particular, the Titans note that even a verbal consent would have been insufficient under the terms of his contract. By Saturday, July 24th, Pola had accepted the job with USC, and the Titans were furious.
The complaint asserts that Kiffin and USC were aware of the Pola contract. Utilizing charged language, the Titans also assert in the complaint that Kiffin and USC have "a culture of violation and avoidance of respect." The Titans cite the Pola hiring as the latest in what they term a "course of pattern of conduct fostered by Kiffin and USC to use improper methods and means to the direct harm and damage to parties of contracts." Indeed, the Titans assert that Kiffin had previously hired four other coaches under contract inside the state of Tennessee: former Volunteers assistants Monte Kiffin, James Cregg, Willie Mack Garza and Ed Orgeron. Per the Titans, this is the fifth incident in which Lane Kiffin has hired away someone employed under an existing contract.
As a result of USC and Kiffin's actions, the Titans assert that they have been damaged by Pola's being hired away "less than one week prior to Tennessee Football's training camp, disrupting its season planning and coordinated effort among its coaches, causing potential loss of confidence by its players, and causing extensive monetary losses consisting of salary and benefits paid to Pola since the commencement of the Pola contract, and future damage."
The first count of the lawsuit, inducement of breach of contract, is filed pursuant to Tennessee Code Annotated Section 47-50-109 which states: "It is unlawful for any person, by inducement, persuasion, misrepresentation, or other means, to induce or procure the breach or violation, refusal or failure to perform any lawful contract by any party thereto; and, in every case where a breach or violation of such contract is so procured, the person so procuring or inducing the same shall be liable in treble the amount of damages resulting from or incident to the breach of the contract. The party injured by such breach may bring suit for the breach and for such damages."
The second count is a common law tort.
The next step in the case will be the Tennessee Titans serving the complaint upon Kiffin and USC via mail. Upon receipt USC and Kiffin would then have 30 days to answer or file a motion to dismiss. Further, it's likely that Kiffin and USC will move for an extension and it will likely be 45-90 days before Kiffin and USC file their response.
At this point expect Kiffin and USC to deny everything and they could possibly file a counterclaim against the Titans. A motion to dismiss is unlikely to be granted given that the complaint has been drafted by solid attorneys and both sides would then move to written discovery.
Which is where things could get really interesting.
Per Tennessee attorney Chris Tardio (full disclosure: a classmate and friend of mine) who has previously litigated a case featuring these same claims, "They better get a protective order. Because if they don't all of the texts, e-mails, phone calls, and any other written correspondence between Kiffin and Pola would become public if filed."
In propounding discovery, the Titans would be seeking concrete evidence that Kiffin and USC conspired to hire away Pola in contravention of the contract. The next step would be a deposition which would require Lane Kiffin, Kennedy Pola, and Jeff Fisher to sit for intense questioning from opposing counsel.
Asked why the Titans were likely to have filed suit, Tardio replied, "Two reasons: First, they may want to send a message to Kiffin and the rest of the NFL that they can't be walked all over when it comes to the coaches they have under contract. Second, as a public relations move. I just don't see any way that they could be trying to make money off this case through their damages."
"I think sometimes," Tardio continued, "people file lawsuits believing that they move faster than they actually do. You're talking a year or two, if ever, before this case came to trial."
Reached for comment, the attorneys representing the Titans declined comment.
So let me comment on what this lawsuit means as a bottom line business: Titans coach Jeff Fisher absolutely hates USC coach Lane Kiffin.
And here's a prediction, this hatefest is going to get a whole hell of a lot uglier before anything is resolved.
MOP: USC is getting enough heat already, Why is Kiffin doing anything that paints them in a further worse light? If I was in charge of the University I would bring Kiffin in and read him the riot act in front of the AD...I would be relentless until he almost wanted to quit. If he lipped back to me I would fire him on the spot, hand him his money, and tell him to get lost and go coach in the CFL. What a moron Kiffin is.
And the sad part is they have had so many unbelievable recruiting classes the past 4-5 years that Kiffin could actually go 11-1, 12-0 this year and not be Bowl eligible. With the recruiting sanctions and such by the time he is Bowl eligible his record will suddenly go down but the Kiffin mantra will continue and people will point to these next 2 seasons. I will predict that USC finishes the year very high in the coaches or AP poll but obviously they cannot enter the BCS standings although ESPN will surely say something like "If USC was elibgible they would be ranked here at #2, etc..."
Guy blows out his welcome in Oakland, uses Tennessee for 1 season, now lands in USC amongst a bunch of chaos that happened when he was coaching there as an assistant already...this guy is the Pacman Jones of coaching, always in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The Tennessee Titans filed suit against USC and Lane Kiffin on Monday afternoon in Davidson County Chancery Court. Included in that suit were two specific counts. Count one alleges that USC and Kiffin provided Kennedy Pola, the running backs coach who left for USC, "inducement of breach of contract." This claim is statutory, rooted in Tennessee Code Annotated Section 47-50-109. The second count accuses Kiffin and USC of engaging in common law tortious interference with the contract. The Titans request treble damages, a jury trial, punitive damages, and such other relief as the court deems proper.
Now let's dive into a complaint that is sure to burn a few bridges between USC alum Jeff Fisher and his alma mater, while at the same time becoming the greatest public relations move in the history of any NFL franchise. First, the Titans allege that Kennedy Pola breached his contract. (Breach is a legal term that effectively means "violated" or "broke.") But they aren't suing Pola, at least not yet, for breaching that employment contract. Instead, they are suing USC and Kiffin for causing the breach by inducing and interfering with that contract.
Per the complaint, Kiffin first contacted Pola about the job offer on Friday, July 23rd (the complaint says the 22nd, but Friday was actually the 23rd) when he called Pola, then located in Nashville, and offered him the job of offensive coordinator and running backs coach at USC. Pola breached his Titans employment contract by engaging in contract discussions with another party and not obtaining the written consent of the Tennessee Titans prior to doing so. In particular, the Titans note that even a verbal consent would have been insufficient under the terms of his contract. By Saturday, July 24th, Pola had accepted the job with USC, and the Titans were furious.
The complaint asserts that Kiffin and USC were aware of the Pola contract. Utilizing charged language, the Titans also assert in the complaint that Kiffin and USC have "a culture of violation and avoidance of respect." The Titans cite the Pola hiring as the latest in what they term a "course of pattern of conduct fostered by Kiffin and USC to use improper methods and means to the direct harm and damage to parties of contracts." Indeed, the Titans assert that Kiffin had previously hired four other coaches under contract inside the state of Tennessee: former Volunteers assistants Monte Kiffin, James Cregg, Willie Mack Garza and Ed Orgeron. Per the Titans, this is the fifth incident in which Lane Kiffin has hired away someone employed under an existing contract.
As a result of USC and Kiffin's actions, the Titans assert that they have been damaged by Pola's being hired away "less than one week prior to Tennessee Football's training camp, disrupting its season planning and coordinated effort among its coaches, causing potential loss of confidence by its players, and causing extensive monetary losses consisting of salary and benefits paid to Pola since the commencement of the Pola contract, and future damage."
The first count of the lawsuit, inducement of breach of contract, is filed pursuant to Tennessee Code Annotated Section 47-50-109 which states: "It is unlawful for any person, by inducement, persuasion, misrepresentation, or other means, to induce or procure the breach or violation, refusal or failure to perform any lawful contract by any party thereto; and, in every case where a breach or violation of such contract is so procured, the person so procuring or inducing the same shall be liable in treble the amount of damages resulting from or incident to the breach of the contract. The party injured by such breach may bring suit for the breach and for such damages."
The second count is a common law tort.
The next step in the case will be the Tennessee Titans serving the complaint upon Kiffin and USC via mail. Upon receipt USC and Kiffin would then have 30 days to answer or file a motion to dismiss. Further, it's likely that Kiffin and USC will move for an extension and it will likely be 45-90 days before Kiffin and USC file their response.
At this point expect Kiffin and USC to deny everything and they could possibly file a counterclaim against the Titans. A motion to dismiss is unlikely to be granted given that the complaint has been drafted by solid attorneys and both sides would then move to written discovery.
Which is where things could get really interesting.
Per Tennessee attorney Chris Tardio (full disclosure: a classmate and friend of mine) who has previously litigated a case featuring these same claims, "They better get a protective order. Because if they don't all of the texts, e-mails, phone calls, and any other written correspondence between Kiffin and Pola would become public if filed."
In propounding discovery, the Titans would be seeking concrete evidence that Kiffin and USC conspired to hire away Pola in contravention of the contract. The next step would be a deposition which would require Lane Kiffin, Kennedy Pola, and Jeff Fisher to sit for intense questioning from opposing counsel.
Asked why the Titans were likely to have filed suit, Tardio replied, "Two reasons: First, they may want to send a message to Kiffin and the rest of the NFL that they can't be walked all over when it comes to the coaches they have under contract. Second, as a public relations move. I just don't see any way that they could be trying to make money off this case through their damages."
"I think sometimes," Tardio continued, "people file lawsuits believing that they move faster than they actually do. You're talking a year or two, if ever, before this case came to trial."
Reached for comment, the attorneys representing the Titans declined comment.
So let me comment on what this lawsuit means as a bottom line business: Titans coach Jeff Fisher absolutely hates USC coach Lane Kiffin.
And here's a prediction, this hatefest is going to get a whole hell of a lot uglier before anything is resolved.
MOP: USC is getting enough heat already, Why is Kiffin doing anything that paints them in a further worse light? If I was in charge of the University I would bring Kiffin in and read him the riot act in front of the AD...I would be relentless until he almost wanted to quit. If he lipped back to me I would fire him on the spot, hand him his money, and tell him to get lost and go coach in the CFL. What a moron Kiffin is.
And the sad part is they have had so many unbelievable recruiting classes the past 4-5 years that Kiffin could actually go 11-1, 12-0 this year and not be Bowl eligible. With the recruiting sanctions and such by the time he is Bowl eligible his record will suddenly go down but the Kiffin mantra will continue and people will point to these next 2 seasons. I will predict that USC finishes the year very high in the coaches or AP poll but obviously they cannot enter the BCS standings although ESPN will surely say something like "If USC was elibgible they would be ranked here at #2, etc..."
Guy blows out his welcome in Oakland, uses Tennessee for 1 season, now lands in USC amongst a bunch of chaos that happened when he was coaching there as an assistant already...this guy is the Pacman Jones of coaching, always in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
USC hired someone who was under contract to another team, a guy who apparently could not talk to another team without written permission, and did so, and it is the Titans who did the POS move? Really? Just because it might happen all of the time doesn't mean everyone should roll over and take it.It looks like USC needs to learn yet again that they cannot flagrantly break the rules and get away with it.Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
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Don Quixote
Footballguy
He's a good friend of mine from college. But I can see how he can rub some people the wrong way.
sholditch
Footballguy
He just doesnt really seem at all interested in what he's supposed to cover (college football) and acts like a little kid trying to cut up in class at media days. Every year there is a "Clay Travis" question that is not only ridiculous (last year Tebow's virginity, this year asking Les Miles about the oil spill) but has zero to do with football. He just reminds me of ESPN: apparently believes that no one really watches football just for football, and feels the need to "spice it up" with whatever questions interest him, and I really can't stand that. It was dumb when Sportscenter brought in Rush, dumb when they tried Dennis Miller, and none of these things worked. His questions are from the same line of thinking, and I can't believe that any real fan of the game would think it necessary that football needs to be spiced up to be interesting.
FWIW I had a beer with him after Tebow-gate and he seemed like an ok dude in person, I just think he has no business in sports journalism. Seems like for his interests he'd be a better fit doing TMZ or guest blogging for Perez Hilton.
FWIW I had a beer with him after Tebow-gate and he seemed like an ok dude in person, I just think he has no business in sports journalism. Seems like for his interests he'd be a better fit doing TMZ or guest blogging for Perez Hilton.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
That is hard to figure out. Clearly SMU getting the death penalty is #1 and I think Florida not being allowed on live TV for years in the '80s in addition to massive scholarship reductions and no post-season is #2. I think there are many others that top USC as well.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
The Les Miles question that got play was during a radio interview, not at media days. I think Miles was asked asked a similar question by another reporter at media days, and Miles had toured the area, so I don't think it was intended to be a "gotcha"-type question.
sholditch
Footballguy
Well, like I said, seemed like a good dude in person, just doesn't seem interested in what he covers. Seems interested in fluff. Not trying to knock on your friend, just think he would be better at covering other stuff.
And really my knock on him is more of a knock on the entire trend which extends well beyond him. There seem to be a lot of college football bloggers who would rather talk about who some star QB is dating than anything about the game and he seems to be cut from that cloth. Seems like that game is more about appearing clever than actually knowing, or revealing, anything about football.
And really my knock on him is more of a knock on the entire trend which extends well beyond him. There seem to be a lot of college football bloggers who would rather talk about who some star QB is dating than anything about the game and he seems to be cut from that cloth. Seems like that game is more about appearing clever than actually knowing, or revealing, anything about football.
gump
Footballguy
I found this and this saying UF lost 20 schollys over 3 seasons.USC just lost 30 over 3.That is hard to figure out. Clearly SMU getting the death penalty is #1 and I think Florida not being allowed on live TV for years in the '80s in addition to massive scholarship reductions and no post-season is #2. I think there are many others that top USC as well.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
Unfortunately for USC, "this stuff happens all the time" isn't a defense to a tortious interference claim.
Team ROFLCOPTERS
Footballguy
That's not the point. My point is Fisher is being petty in an attempt to burn Kiffin. In filing the suit Fisher was quoted as saying this is the 5th person that Kiffin has done this to. Why doesn't he mind his business and focus on his own team. The other teams didn't cry like a baby and file pointless law suits in an attempt to use the press to discredit Kiffin.
You said:Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
And I'm telling you that if the Titans want to push it, it will fly no matter what you think about it. Moreover, Fisher isn't the only one making this decision. Bud Adams and Mike Reinfeldt had to sign off on it. I highly doubt Fisher talked them into filing a lawsuit because he simply wanted to discredit a college head coach.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
You mean his team that just lost a coach because USC and that coach violated a contract that he had with Fisher's team?And it is not a pointless lawsuit. A lawsuit like this will let other rule-breaking schools and coaches like USC and Kiffin know that, if you break the rules with no regard for anyone else, there will be consequences. I know accountability is a tricky thing in this day and age, but Kiffin and USC are simply gonna be held accountable for their actions.Team ROFLCOPTERS said:
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GregR_2
Footballguy
It would depend on Carroll's contract and the actions of the Seahawks and USC.Normally a coach/team would contact the other coach/team to seek permission before trying to recruit away their employee... which is what Fisher is complaining didn't happen. If the Seahawks did this and USC gave them permission, one would imagine they wouldn't have a case. It's also possible that Carroll could have had either a buyout clause that would allow him to pay to get out of his contract, or could have a section that allows him to leave to pursue an NFL head coaching position. I don't know if that's the case with either, but neither is it an uncommon thing to have in a college coach's contract. Kiffin's contract had an $800,000 buyout clause that is the reason he was able to leave Tennessee to go to USC.B. Nugget said:
CalBear
Footballguy
Look, I hate USC, but it's pretty dang unlikely that they broke any rules. The NCAA is a separate employer from the NFL; a tampering clause in an NFL coach's contract has no bearing on the NCAA. Pola might have breached his contract, but even that is unlikely; a contract that says you must obtain written permission before interviewing for a job with another employer is unenforceable.Anyway, it's just a publicity stunt.
Abraham
Footballguy
Everyone involved admits that this is EXACTLY what happened. The Titans never gave Pola permission to interview and they never gave Kiffin permission to interview him.
How so?ETA: This has nothing to do with the NCAA. It has to do with the willful violation of an employment contract. This sort of thing happens regularly in lots of industries and I imagine in many cases no one cares. In this case, it appears the Titans do care.The bigger thing here is that even if it is unenforceable, it takes a lot of $$$ for POla/Kiffin/etc. to prove that. I imagine that if Bud Adams is sufficiently angry about it that his deep-pockets can make things miserable for Pola/Kiffin for a while in the court system unless someone at USC offers to pay the legal bill.
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CalBear
Footballguy
In America, you have the right to look for another job.http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10010724-92.html for one example of a relevant court ruling. "Non-competition agreements are invalid...in California even if narrowly drawn."How so?
Abraham
Footballguy
That's all well and good except that there are parts of this country that aren't California and even though Tennessee doesn't always look favorably on non-competes, there is no supreme court ruling stating that. Furthermore, this isn't a non-compete case at all. Its a breach of contract case for a person that was already employed.In America, you have the right to look for another job.http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10010724-92.html for one example of a relevant court ruling. "Non-competition agreements are invalid...in California even if narrowly drawn."Everyone involved admits that this is EXACTLY what happened. The Titans never gave Pola permission to interview and they never gave Kiffin permission to interview him.
How so?
