Larry Johnson refusing to report to camp (1 Viewer)

[Family Matters]

KC is looking like a team heading full throttle into rebuilding mode. it isn't going to make 1 bit of difference if LJ plays 16 or 6 games. LJ missed his window. if he wanted to play "hard-ball" he should have done it last year. he had that great finish in '06, priest was done, and KC still had playoff aspirations. last years numbers were more about how many carries he had. at 28, he has perhaps 3 productive years left. 27 million divided by 3 is 9 million a year. so thats 9 million, not including salary. who wants to be on the hook to a 30 year old RB for 12-13 million a year? i read that KC offered 14 million. i don't know what the salary structure looked like, but maybe LJ should think hard about that, and get off this ego trip. if i was peterson, i wouldn't blink. let LJ do what he wants this year, and then tag him in '08.

In thinking about what you said it seems a bit contradictory. Maybe I should say KC is being contradictory. They offered him a deal so you have to think he's they want him and that he's worht keeping. Yet they want to pay him well below what his market value appears to be. Either they want him or they don't.But with KC it's never that simple becuae they are more worried about the money that they are the player(s). They want him but only below market value. And there inlies the contradicition. Playing hard ball doesn't really help them if they don't have LJ running the ball for them. No matter the money, LJ on the bench is not helpful to them.As for LJ playing hardball last year, I really don't think it would of made sense. Going into last year he had 1 season's worth of work as a starter to validate his worth. That's not going to fly to well with most teams or the court of public opinion. But after adding another stellar year playing under duress, he again proved what his value is. And thus he wants to do what others before him have done and that's renegotiate to a fair market deal. After playing what amounts to 2 seasons as one of the top 2 RB's the last 2 years, he wants to be paid better than a rookie deal. Others before him have done it so why is it so hard to think a guy LJ would want the same?Lastly, the numbers you suggested may not lay out the way you presented it. KC can do a deal that allows them to walk away after 3 or 4 years if they want to. They can structure the deal in several ways that are cap friendly to them. They have more cap room now and they are getting more in the future so they can handle the cap issues. This really comes down to do they want to pay the money? Can they find a common ground on the actual cash involved? Finding this answer is the key to a deal.

 

[FavreCo]

KC is looking like a team heading full throttle into rebuilding mode. it isn't going to make 1 bit of difference if LJ plays 16 or 6 games. LJ missed his window. if he wanted to play "hard-ball" he should have done it last year. he had that great finish in '06, priest was done, and KC still had playoff aspirations. last years numbers were more about how many carries he had. at 28, he has perhaps 3 productive years left. 27 million divided by 3 is 9 million a year. so thats 9 million, not including salary. who wants to be on the hook to a 30 year old RB for 12-13 million a year? i read that KC offered 14 million. i don't know what the salary structure looked like, but maybe LJ should think hard about that, and get off this ego trip. if i was peterson, i wouldn't blink. let LJ do what he wants this year, and then tag him in '08.

It's amazing that so many can figure this out. The Chiefs aren't going to budge. They have the upper hand. They have a contract with Johnson and are not going to shell out a ton of $ to a guy that is not going to help them in their rebuilding. By the time they have made repairs, Johnson will be a beat up has been. I'll call it right now. Dead last in the AFC West. Even though I have already stated this a few times.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Nobody has an urgency to get a deal done right now. Training camp just started. The real urgency starts as the season opener draws near. The comments by LJ and Peterson are just them digging their heels in, but the fact is that the talk from both sides doesn't mean a whole lot right now.

 

[ericttspikes]

Carl Peterson quoted on NFL Total Access todayaraphrased from TV..."Larry Johnson is not the complete back LaDainian Tomlinson is. Hopefully someday he will get there but he wants to be paid more than Tomlinson right now. He will not receive that kind of deal from us."both analysts said "Wow" right after I said "wow" sitting on my couch hehe

I saw that. That was pretty harsh. KC might not want to pay Tomlinson money, but I bet another team would for the kind of production Larry has had the past few years, and he knows it.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Kansas City Chiefs are turning into a joke of a franchise real fast.

 

[az_prof]

Carl Peterson quoted on NFL Total Access todayaraphrased from TV..."Larry Johnson is not the complete back LaDainian Tomlinson is. Hopefully someday he will get there but he wants to be paid more than Tomlinson right now. He will not receive that kind of deal from us."both analysts said "Wow" right after I said "wow" sitting on my couch hehe

I saw that. That was pretty harsh. KC might not want to pay Tomlinson money, but I bet another team would for the kind of production Larry has had the past few years, and he knows it.

I agree with him.

 

[OCC]

KC is looking like a team heading full throttle into rebuilding mode. it isn't going to make 1 bit of difference if LJ plays 16 or 6 games. LJ missed his window. if he wanted to play "hard-ball" he should have done it last year. he had that great finish in '06, priest was done, and KC still had playoff aspirations. last years numbers were more about how many carries he had. at 28, he has perhaps 3 productive years left. 27 million divided by 3 is 9 million a year. so thats 9 million, not including salary. who wants to be on the hook to a 30 year old RB for 12-13 million a year? i read that KC offered 14 million. i don't know what the salary structure looked like, but maybe LJ should think hard about that, and get off this ego trip. if i was peterson, i wouldn't blink. let LJ do what he wants this year, and then tag him in '08.

It's amazing that so many can figure this out. The Chiefs aren't going to budge. They have the upper hand. They have a contract with Johnson and are not going to shell out a ton of $ to a guy that is not going to help them in their rebuilding. By the time they have made repairs, Johnson will be a beat up has been. I'll call it right now. Dead last in the AFC West. Even though I have already stated this a few times.

Chiefs have no leverage. LJ can sit out 5-6 games, come back, and then opt out. Good-bye.

Without LJ, maybe even with, the Chiefs are done. They should trade him, or pay him, otherwise he's going to walk and they'll get jack.

 

[tppt]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

 

[tppt]

Nobody has an urgency to get a deal done right now. Training camp just started. The real urgency starts as the season opener draws near. The comments by LJ and Peterson are just them digging their heels in, but the fact is that the talk from both sides doesn't mean a whole lot right now.

i agree. not much is gonna happen 6 weeks before the season starts. plus, with him coming off a 416 carry season, I dont think LJ's workload in camp was gonna be too taxing

 

[Dt's Mules]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

LJ birthdate 11/19/79LJ number of touches last year 447LT birthdate 6/23/79LT number of touches last year 429 including playoffshe may or may not be worth it, just noting that age and number of carries shouldn't factor that much (unless you feel LT isn't worth it either)

 

[David Dodds]

Regardless of how you personally feel about breaking contracts, etc:

Let's look at this from Larry's perspective:

- He has outplayed his rookie deal by a wide margin

- He is considered the 2nd best RB in the game behind only LT

- KC is offering way below market value going forward on any restructure

- Carl Peterson has done this countless times with his best players (Holmes, Gonzalez come to mind)

- He will get his money from someone eventually if he doesn't sign a deal with KC and shows up week 10 to put his year in

- KC could franchise him next year, but that is likely a bluff. Owners don't like to franchise players they don't want around. KC could do it, but they would then openly shop LJ to get picks and players.

- Any new 4-5 year contract will be Larry's last

- Any fines/lost money this year will more than be made up with a new deal next year (See Deion Branch situation)

- Salaries are skyrocketing as the league gains popularity

- KC will be a subpar team over his next contract

So he has one big payday coming. Why would anyone in Johnson's shoes take any lowball offer KC is offering? They want LJ, but they want him for 50 cents on the dollar. I am beginning to think we will see LJ for 6 games only this year and then he will be traded to a team that will treat him fairly. He could easily be the missing piece for some teams in the league. Fantasy owners should be very wary of choosing him at this time.

 

[Mooks77]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

Wrong, more teams are not going to RBBC, and a lot of coaches still want one RB to carry the load. LJ is worth the money, the guy is a stud, the Chiefs should pay him.RBBC myth

 

[cobalt_27]

Assuming the Chiefs don't want to sign him to a contract, they would be complete idiots not to trade him. The longer this plays out, the less leverage they'll have. The whole organization has its collective head in the sand on this one.

 

[bjabrad]

Assuming the Chiefs don't want to sign him to a contract, they would be complete idiots not to trade him. The longer this plays out, the less leverage they'll have. The whole organization has its collective head in the sand on this one.

Nobody would pay two first round draft picks prior to this year's draft so KC is waiting for injuries to happen to other teams RB's which will increase LJ's value.LJ has no leverage this year or next because even if he only plays 6 games this year, KC will slap the franchise tag on him in 2008 and it will be 2009 before he can get his big free agent pay day. Is it fair? It is what it is. Peterson obviously feels that he's got to be the king of frugality in order to squeeze KC into being a competitive team. If things remain the way they are right now and Priest Holmes looks like the real deal in training camp then somebody is going to have to spend a late first or second round pick on both of these guys. I don't see many scenarios where somebody will be able to draft both of these guys on there team this year. In the end, 20/20 hindsight, one of these guys will be drafted way too early.KC's last 6 games are OAK, SD, @ DEN, TEN, @ DET and @NYJ so it does look like a pretty decent fantasy playoff schedule to have LJ.

 

[shadow2k]

One last thought. As I remember things, KC wanted LJ real bad and drafted him in spite of their coaches (Vermeil) wishes against doing so. What, if anything, has changed that they no longer want him? If the love is still there then a deal has a good chance of getting done. If not then maybe they will part ways. But I really wonder where all the love is right now after the owners has passed and LJ is making demands. If anyone has any local info on this angle please speak up.

The reason LJ was drafted was that Holmes had sat out the final two games of 2002 with the hip injury. Nobody knew if he could come back from it, people were comparing it to Bo Jackson's injury. That's why LJ was drafted, not anything to do with contract demands from Priest. Vermiel wanted to draft defense first, because our defense was horrible. Then LJ did nothing to endear himself to the fans when he continually cried about having to sit on the bench behind Priest....keep in mind, Priest was a huge fan favorite around here. We loved the guy, and everyone just wanted LJ to shut the hell up and wait his turn. LJ was crying about not getting to start while Priest was breaking the TD record.

None of the fans around here that I know really like LJ, as a person anyway. We just like the numbers he puts up. He's always whining or crying about something or other. From not getting to start, to not being able to play as well for a white head coach, to any other stupid thing that's come from his mouth. He's never going to be a team leader, other than the numbers he puts up...but I think you know what I mean. And until he proves that he can keep his mouth shut instead of continually spouting off stupid crap to the media here, they need to be cautious about how much they're willing to invest in him.

Let's not forget about the fact that he drops a ton of passes tossed to him out of the backfield, and that he can't block to save his...or Trent Green's...life. Not that I blame him for that exact play, but there were many others were he got Green smacked hard because he'd simply whiff a block than 90% of the backs in the NFL make every time. He simply does not deserve the money LT got. He's not as good. He can put up great rushing numbers, yes, and I don't think anyone in KC will deny that he deserves some hefty money. Just not what he's currently asking for. Most in KC that I talk with agree with me, at least to some extent. We all want him in camp, and belive he deserves a new contract...but not at the prices he's currently asking.

 

[tppt]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

Wrong, more teams are not going to RBBC, and a lot of coaches still want one RB to carry the load. LJ is worth the money, the guy is a stud, the Chiefs should pay him.RBBC myth

LOLRBBC is on the rise. the RB position is 1 big situational substitution

after reading the thread, all of my points were already made. the RBBC myth is a myth

 

[Family Matters]

One last thought. As I remember things, KC wanted LJ real bad and drafted him in spite of their coaches (Vermeil) wishes against doing so. What, if anything, has changed that they no longer want him? If the love is still there then a deal has a good chance of getting done. If not then maybe they will part ways. But I really wonder where all the love is right now after the owners has passed and LJ is making demands. If anyone has any local info on this angle please speak up.

The reason LJ was drafted was that Holmes had sat out the final two games of 2002 with the hip injury. Nobody knew if he could come back from it, people were comparing it to Bo Jackson's injury. That's why LJ was drafted, not anything to do with contract demands from Priest. Vermiel wanted to draft defense first, because our defense was horrible. Then LJ did nothing to endear himself to the fans when he continually cried about having to sit on the bench behind Priest....keep in mind, Priest was a huge fan favorite around here. We loved the guy, and everyone just wanted LJ to shut the hell up and wait his turn. LJ was crying about not getting to start while Priest was breaking the TD record.

None of the fans around here that I know really like LJ, as a person anyway. We just like the numbers he puts up. He's always whining or crying about something or other. From not getting to start, to not being able to play as well for a white head coach, to any other stupid thing that's come from his mouth. He's never going to be a team leader, other than the numbers he puts up...but I think you know what I mean. And until he proves that he can keep his mouth shut instead of continually spouting off stupid crap to the media here, they need to be cautious about how much they're willing to invest in him.

Let's not forget about the fact that he drops a ton of passes tossed to him out of the backfield, and that he can't block to save his...or Trent Green's...life. Not that I blame him for that exact play, but there were many others were he got Green smacked hard because he'd simply whiff a block than 90% of the backs in the NFL make every time. He simply does not deserve the money LT got. He's not as good. He can put up great rushing numbers, yes, and I don't think anyone in KC will deny that he deserves some hefty money. Just not what he's currently asking for. Most in KC that I talk with agree with me, at least to some extent. We all want him in camp, and belive he deserves a new contract...but not at the prices he's currently asking.

Thanks shadow for reminding us of what happened. I guess we have a better feel for how Peterson feels after this past week. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[Family Matters]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

Wrong, more teams are not going to RBBC, and a lot of coaches still want one RB to carry the load. LJ is worth the money, the guy is a stud, the Chiefs should pay him.RBBC myth

LOLRBBC is on the rise. the RB position is 1 big situational substitution

after reading the thread, all of my points were already made. the RBBC myth is a myth

You either didn't read the article or you're ignoring it. Further, you're ignoring what's been obvious to many of us that watch and follow football. There is no "RBBC". At least no in the terms that some suggest is detrimental to FF by taking away our RB1 options. As pointed out, there are more RB1 options in recent history than in year's past.So if that's what you call RBBC then sure. It's a serious problem.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I don't think Johnson is going to hold out.

 

[Family Matters]

I don't think Johnson is going to hold out.

Do you think it's a matter of both sides moving towards a happy medium? Do you think KC is willing to move enough to make the deal? Or do you see LJ genuflecting to Peterson?

 

[KING]

KC is looking like a team heading full throttle into rebuilding mode. it isn't going to make 1 bit of difference if LJ plays 16 or 6 games. LJ missed his window. if he wanted to play "hard-ball" he should have done it last year. he had that great finish in '06, priest was done, and KC still had playoff aspirations. last years numbers were more about how many carries he had. at 28, he has perhaps 3 productive years left. 27 million divided by 3 is 9 million a year. so thats 9 million, not including salary. who wants to be on the hook to a 30 year old RB for 12-13 million a year? i read that KC offered 14 million. i don't know what the salary structure looked like, but maybe LJ should think hard about that, and get off this ego trip. if i was peterson, i wouldn't blink. let LJ do what he wants this year, and then tag him in '08.

It's amazing that so many can figure this out. The Chiefs aren't going to budge. They have the upper hand. They have a contract with Johnson and are not going to shell out a ton of $ to a guy that is not going to help them in their rebuilding. By the time they have made repairs, Johnson will be a beat up has been. I'll call it right now. Dead last in the AFC West. Even though I have already stated this a few times.

Chiefs have no leverage. LJ can sit out 5-6 games, come back, and then opt out. Good-bye.

Without LJ, maybe even with, the Chiefs are done. They should trade him, or pay him, otherwise he's going to walk and they'll get jack.

KC has all the leverage. he IS under contract now, and next year the can tag him. by the time 09 gets here, he be just another 30 something RB.

 

[Bob Magaw]

LJ, dating back to his prep years, had a pattern of not playing a lot in his first few seasons... it happened in HS, again at penn state, & again in KC... so while he is coming off a grueling, withering 400 carry season, if he holds out the first 10 games, this will again be conducive to maintaining this pattern of having relatively fresh legs... he could command more than edge did last season, and i think that is more than is what is on the table currently...

it has been said upthread, but peterson seems disengenuous in this negotiation through press release... in saying LJ is asking for LT money... he neglects to mention that LT signed that contract a few years ago, & there is no doubt if he were signed today his guaranteed money would be much more than what he previously secured... peterson appears to be negotiating in bad faith, & it is pretty transparent... if he DOESN"T budge on their seemingly unrealistic stance, this can seemingly only lead to a prolonged hold out...

 

[nygiants56]

LJ, dating back to his prep years, had a pattern of not playing a lot in his first few seasons... it happened in HS, again at penn state, & again in KC... so while he is coming off a grueling, withering 400 carry season, if he holds out the first 10 games, this will again be conducive to maintaining this pattern of having relatively fresh legs... he could command more than edge did last season, and i think that is more than is what is on the table currently...it has been said upthread, but peterson seems disengenuous in this negotiation through press release... in saying LJ is asking for LT money... he neglects to mention that LT signed that contract a few years ago, & there is no doubt if he were signed today his guaranteed money would be much more than what he previously secured... peterson appears to be negotiating in bad faith, & it is pretty transparent... if he DOESN"T budge on their seemingly unrealistic stance, this can seemingly only lead to a prolonged hold out...

I don't see this going beyond a week or two during camp. Something will get done,one way or another. LJ sitting out 10 games is just ridiculous. I remember all the talk ,years ago, during Emmitt's holdout, that he was not going to play until he got a new deal. At the 11th hour, they signed him to a lucrative deal.Someone mentioned Dallas as a possible trading partner; sounds good! They can give up J. Jones and a first rounder for LJ, and they have boatloads of $$ , to sign him...

 

[tppt]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

Wrong, more teams are not going to RBBC, and a lot of coaches still want one RB to carry the load. LJ is worth the money, the guy is a stud, the Chiefs should pay him.RBBC myth

LOLRBBC is on the rise. the RB position is 1 big situational substitution

after reading the thread, all of my points were already made. the RBBC myth is a myth

You either didn't read the article or you're ignoring it. Further, you're ignoring what's been obvious to many of us that watch and follow football. There is no "RBBC". At least no in the terms that some suggest is detrimental to FF by taking away our RB1 options. As pointed out, there are more RB1 options in recent history than in year's past.So if that's what you call RBBC then sure. It's a serious problem.

whos to say rb1 was rb1 at the start of the season? you are taking the end result and using it in your favor, when on draft day, we dont know the end result.

who will get more touches this season and be rb1 in

buffalo?

washington?

giants?

jax?

dallas?

atlanta?

houston?

tenn?

minnesota?

GB?

knowing who will get the bulk of the touches is 1 thing, when the player takes over and gets the touches is another. If Marshawn Lynch is the man in Buffalo, but isnt the man until week6, good luck in weeks 1-5 with him as your #2 back.

Its detrimental on draft day to have several situations unclear and unknown. after the season, its real easy to sit back and say, rb1 did _______________, rb2 did_____________ and say there is no RBBC.

 

[Jedeye]

LJ, dating back to his prep years, had a pattern of not playing a lot in his first few seasons... it happened in HS, again at penn state, & again in KC... so while he is coming off a grueling, withering 400 carry season, if he holds out the first 10 games, this will again be conducive to maintaining this pattern of having relatively fresh legs... he could command more than edge did last season, and i think that is more than is what is on the table currently...it has been said upthread, but peterson seems disengenuous in this negotiation through press release... in saying LJ is asking for LT money... he neglects to mention that LT signed that contract a few years ago, & there is no doubt if he were signed today his guaranteed money would be much more than what he previously secured... peterson appears to be negotiating in bad faith, & it is pretty transparent... if he DOESN"T budge on their seemingly unrealistic stance, this can seemingly only lead to a prolonged hold out...

I don't see this going beyond a week or two during camp. Something will get done,one way or another. LJ sitting out 10 games is just ridiculous. I remember all the talk ,years ago, during Emmitt's holdout, that he was not going to play until he got a new deal. At the 11th hour, they signed him to a lucrative deal.Someone mentioned Dallas as a possible trading partner; sounds good! They can give up J. Jones and a first rounder for LJ, and they have boatloads of $$ , to sign him...

If I remember correctly, didn't Emmitt sit out the first 2 games of the season, and Dallas lost both of those games? This was when Dallas was a legit contender too, so I'm not sure that this is a comparable situation to LJ's.

 

[Sleeper 43]

Is it me or has Peterson been a little nastier since Hunt passed on? LJ's always been stubborn as an ox too. I think this is a personal game of chicken about to ensue and will end up uglier than most envision.

 

[Family Matters]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

Wrong, more teams are not going to RBBC, and a lot of coaches still want one RB to carry the load. LJ is worth the money, the guy is a stud, the Chiefs should pay him.RBBC myth

LOLRBBC is on the rise. the RB position is 1 big situational substitution

after reading the thread, all of my points were already made. the RBBC myth is a myth

You either didn't read the article or you're ignoring it. Further, you're ignoring what's been obvious to many of us that watch and follow football. There is no "RBBC". At least no in the terms that some suggest is detrimental to FF by taking away our RB1 options. As pointed out, there are more RB1 options in recent history than in year's past.So if that's what you call RBBC then sure. It's a serious problem.

whos to say rb1 was rb1 at the start of the season? you are taking the end result and using it in your favor, when on draft day, we dont know the end result.

who will get more touches this season and be rb1 in

buffalo?

washington?-It's Portis without question.

giants?

jax?

dallas?

atlanta?

houston?-It's Green without question.

tenn?

minnesota?

GB?

knowing who will get the bulk of the touches is 1 thing, when the player takes over and gets the touches is another. If Marshawn Lynch is the man in Buffalo, but isnt the man until week6, good luck in weeks 1-5 with him as your #2 back.

Its detrimental on draft day to have several situations unclear and unknown. after the season, its real easy to sit back and say, rb1 did _______________, rb2 did_____________ and say there is no RBBC.

Looking back is always a good way to judge how things actually went. It's worked well for me for years. Further, it's proven way of assisiting in predicting what might happen.Now to say that there are some scenarios that in question goes without saying. Personally, I won't be drafting any of those for my RB's unless I'm in a large 16 team league such as the survivors leagues. I corrected 2 teams for you as I believe they are already settled.

So to say there are some teams with RBBC concerns is not what I'm arguing. But to suggest the league is in RBBC mode is overstating the reality and breathes life to the myth.

 

[tppt]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

Wrong, more teams are not going to RBBC, and a lot of coaches still want one RB to carry the load. LJ is worth the money, the guy is a stud, the Chiefs should pay him.RBBC myth

LOLRBBC is on the rise. the RB position is 1 big situational substitution

after reading the thread, all of my points were already made. the RBBC myth is a myth

You either didn't read the article or you're ignoring it. Further, you're ignoring what's been obvious to many of us that watch and follow football. There is no "RBBC". At least no in the terms that some suggest is detrimental to FF by taking away our RB1 options. As pointed out, there are more RB1 options in recent history than in year's past.So if that's what you call RBBC then sure. It's a serious problem.

whos to say rb1 was rb1 at the start of the season? you are taking the end result and using it in your favor, when on draft day, we dont know the end result.

who will get more touches this season and be rb1 in

buffalo?

washington?-It's Portis without question.

giants?

jax?

dallas?

atlanta?

houston?-It's Green without question.

tenn?

minnesota?

GB?

knowing who will get the bulk of the touches is 1 thing, when the player takes over and gets the touches is another. If Marshawn Lynch is the man in Buffalo, but isnt the man until week6, good luck in weeks 1-5 with him as your #2 back.

Its detrimental on draft day to have several situations unclear and unknown. after the season, its real easy to sit back and say, rb1 did _______________, rb2 did_____________ and say there is no RBBC.

Looking back is always a good way to judge how things actually went. It's worked well for me for years. Further, it's proven way of assisiting in predicting what might happen.Now to say that there are some scenarios that in question goes without saying. Personally, I won't be drafting any of those for my RB's unless I'm in a large 16 team league such as the survivors leagues. I corrected 2 teams for you as I believe they are already settled.

So to say there are some teams with RBBC concerns is not what I'm arguing. But to suggest the league is in RBBC mode is overstating the reality and breathes life to the myth.

i guess I wasnt arguing that teams are shying away from work horse backs and going with a stable. but that there are teams that dont have a clear cut workhorse, but do have a stable, and 1 guy will ultiamtely get the lions share of the carries. we just dont know who

 

[Keith Lewis]

Chiefs = 90's Cardinals

 

[Footballhead]

If LJ holds out the first 10 games, he'll be on the bench for the rest of the year.

First to call.

 

[Keith Lewis]

Priest had a press confrence and said:

1) Will not put pads on for at least three weeks.

2) Glad to be back so he can provide leadership.

3) Will accept any role that will help the team to get deeper in the playoffs.

4) Will be working with strength coach so he can build a "base" that will get him back into football shape.

5) Said LJ is the workhorse and that's how it should be.

Overall, he sounded more like a player that will be a mentor/cheerleader with the hope that he will get on the field with a defined role. I think he realizes he won't be what he was before, but will do what it takes to help this team win.

It'll will be interesting to follow his progress.

(from stevie at the planet)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam teicher's vlog: "holmes appearance leaves more questions"

http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/va9...og.wmv/play.asx

-said he doesnt think Priest will ever play for the chiefs again

-thinks chiefs orginization thinks that kolby smith (rb) was a steal in the 5th round

-thinks Kolby smith would end up being the lead rusher if LJ held out. he has good burst of speed.

 

[Family Matters]

Priest had a press confrence and said:

1) Will not put pads on for at least three weeks.

2) Glad to be back so he can provide leadership.

3) Will accept any role that will help the team to get deeper in the playoffs.

4) Will be working with strength coach so he can build a "base" that will get him back into football shape.

5) Said LJ is the workhorse and that's how it should be.

Overall, he sounded more like a player that will be a mentor/cheerleader with the hope that he will get on the field with a defined role. I think he realizes he won't be what he was before, but will do what it takes to help this team win.

It'll will be interesting to follow his progress.

(from stevie at the planet)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam teicher's vlog: "holmes appearance leaves more questions"

http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/va9...og.wmv/play.asx

-said he doesnt think Priest will ever play for the chiefs again

-thinks chiefs orginization thinks that kolby smith (rb) was a steal in the 5th round

-thinks Kolby smith would end up being the lead rusher if LJ held out. he has good burst of speed.

I think this should put any fears to rest that Holmes will be taking LJ's job. I can't imagine Holmes will be able and willing to put himself in the rigors of more than 7 carries per game, if that. I would not be at all surprised to see him retire. I really hope whatever he decises that he doesn't get seriously hurt. He's got the rest of his life ahead of him.

 

[Family Matters]

While several (including Peterson) have made the comment that LJ is asking for LT money it seems that reality is raising it's head to say LJ is more than reasonable in what he's asking for. Adrian Peterson just signed with the Vikings and it's worth more per year than LT's deal. And he hasn't played a single down yet. So I guess that arguement just flushed down the toilet.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Vikings have agreed to terms with running back Adrian Peterson, the No. 7 overall pick in the 2007 draft.Per Schefter, Peterson has signed a five-year, $40 million contract, with $17 million in guaranteed money.Peterson is the latest player drafted in the top 16 picks to sign a deal for less than the maximum term of six years.The annual average of $8 million is actually greater than the average value of LaDanian Tomlinson's contract, who signed nearly three years ago an eight-year, $60 million deal.

 

[cstu]

Didn't see the full second quote posted yet. :(

Chiefs GM Carl Peterson talking about Larry Johnson. He's moving back and forth between a little sweet and a little sour. First, Peterson on the Chiefs' website Q & A on July 27th: "First of all, I have no intention whatsoever of trading Larry Johnson. Like before there was a lot of speculation on that; I have had no teams – zero – call me with an interest in trading for Larry... I would like to get something done quickly, obviously, but sometimes it takes time. I’ve been through this before with a lot of players." Then, Peterson appeared on NFL Network's Total Access on July 28th: "Larry is a terrific back, but I don't put him in the LaDainian Tomlinson category. Hopefully, he can get there, become a more complete back like LaDainian. This guy wants money beyond LaDainian Tomlinson. That's not going to happen with us."

 

[RebelINS]

It'd be great for LJ to hold out and only play 6 games for an abyssmal team. He could work out like a monster and have revenge going for him, sign with someone next year and dominate. We'll see what happens but KC is being ridiculous.

 

[smcindoe]

Nobody has an urgency to get a deal done right now. Training camp just started. The real urgency starts as the season opener draws near.

And let's be honest, missing his pre-season carries probably wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen to a high-mileage guy like LJ.

 

[shadow2k]

While several (including Peterson) have made the comment that LJ is asking for LT money it seems that reality is raising it's head to say LJ is more than reasonable in what he's asking for. Adrian Peterson just signed with the Vikings and it's worth more per year than LT's deal. And he hasn't played a single down yet. So I guess that arguement just flushed down the toilet.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network reports that the Vikings have agreed to terms with running back Adrian Peterson, the No. 7 overall pick in the 2007 draft.Per Schefter, Peterson has signed a five-year, $40 million contract, with $17 million in guaranteed money.Peterson is the latest player drafted in the top 16 picks to sign a deal for less than the maximum term of six years.The annual average of $8 million is actually greater than the average value of LaDanian Tomlinson's contract, who signed nearly three years ago an eight-year, $60 million deal.

LT had more guaranteed money than Peterson got. I believe the first offer to LJ was in the neighborhood of $14-15mil guaranteed. Word is, he's asking for almost double that, so the Chiefs didn't even bother to counter.Here's a nice article I read about the whole situation:

From Scout.com -- The Main Issue: How much should Johnson be paid? The astute fan recognizes that contract negotiations in today’s NFL are all about guaranteed money. The total value of the contract is only relevant to the posturing of the agent in landing future clients. There are reports out that say the Chiefs and Camp LJ are about $14 million apart. We don’t know if that’s true or not, but let’s say it’s true Johnson is seeking $28 million in guaranteed money, and the Chiefs are offering $14 million. What’s the right number? Frankly, I like the analysis Peter King applied to the Dwight Freeney deal – he used the franchise money for a defensive end over the next two seasons as a baseline for what the guaranteed money should be. The franchise number for a running back this year is $7.5 million (a 15 percent increase over last year). If it increases another 15 percent over the next two years, the result would be $8.6 million in 2008 and $9.9 million in 2009, for a total of $18.5 million over two seasons. Speculation is that next year’s franchise number will actually drop to $6.5 million, likely making the 2009 number around $7.5 million, for a two-season total of $14 million. Let’s assume it’s somewhere around $16 million over the next two seasons. The guaranteed money the Chiefs are offering Johnson now would have to be at least that amount. He’ll likely sign a five or six-year deal. The additional three to four years should add a few more million in guaranteed money ($4 to $6 million), making the total guaranteed money somewhere around $20 million. To me, that seems fair to both sides. Tony Gonzalez recently received $18 million in guaranteed money. A few million extra for a guy who will be more than 50 percent of the offense seems reasonable

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

The problem with the LJ situation from the Chiefs standpoint isn't really if he's worth the money, he is, but whether it's worth giving all that money when their offense is horrendous and even god himself couldn't make them good.They aren't one year away from being a legit offense, they are a few years away, and by the time the rest of the offense gets competent and playoff worthy LJ is 29-30.If the Chiefs didn't have the worst offense in the NFL (even with Johnson) i'd say pay him, but they are so bad i think they need to admit they need to rebuild and get all they can for him now.LJ's prime is just going to end up wasted in KC.

I would agree with your assesment but dont you think July 29th is a little to late to be thinking about trading him. How about after the season ended so you could load up on draft picks. Everyone's cap is pretty much set at this point. I see LJ sitting so everyone may want to rework thier top 5 backs. (Brian Westbrook) - Good for LJ its not his problem the Chiefs stink.I started this same thread few days ago and get my balls broken - Don't get it

 

[Todem]

Peterson is an ###. No doubt about it.

I don't see Johnson missing any time. If the Cheifs can't sign their best player and franchise RB then their fans will go insane. Just my thoughts.

 

[bjabrad]

Priest had a press confrence and said:

1) Will not put pads on for at least three weeks.

2) Glad to be back so he can provide leadership.

3) Will accept any role that will help the team to get deeper in the playoffs.

4) Will be working with strength coach so he can build a "base" that will get him back into football shape.

5) Said LJ is the workhorse and that's how it should be.

Overall, he sounded more like a player that will be a mentor/cheerleader with the hope that he will get on the field with a defined role. I think he realizes he won't be what he was before, but will do what it takes to help this team win.

It'll will be interesting to follow his progress.

(from stevie at the planet)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam teicher's vlog: "holmes appearance leaves more questions"

http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/va9...og.wmv/play.asx

-said he doesnt think Priest will ever play for the chiefs again

-thinks chiefs orginization thinks that kolby smith (rb) was a steal in the 5th round

-thinks Kolby smith would end up being the lead rusher if LJ held out. he has good burst of speed.

I think this should put any fears to rest that Holmes will be taking LJ's job. I can't imagine Holmes will be able and willing to put himself in the rigors of more than 7 carries per game, if that. I would not be at all surprised to see him retire. I really hope whatever he decises that he doesn't get seriously hurt. He's got the rest of his life ahead of him.

Nobody ever said that Priest was going to take LJ's job if they were both in camp and in fact Edwards and Peterson have commented that LJ will remain the starter. The only thing that contradicts this is Edwards saying that players won't lose their job due to injury which I think he can explain away with a straight face by saying that LJ and Priest were splitting carries already when Priest got hurt. So the only thing Priest is losing is % of carries and from this press conference he's happy with that role. I am disappointed that it may take up to three weeks for KC to know what they've got with Priest. I think it's way, way, way too premature to be predicting that he's going to retire but you are certainly entitled to your prediction and who knows it may indeed end up being correct. I don't read it that way though, I think Holmes is going to play this year.

 

[Todem]

I am a huge Holmes fan...but he is done.

Seriously.

 

[bjabrad]

It'd be great for LJ to hold out and only play 6 games for an abyssmal team. He could work out like a monster and have revenge going for him, sign with someone next year and dominate. We'll see what happens but KC is being ridiculous.

why are we even talking about money and KC being ridiculous???Is Peterson an ###??? Yes, but he's OUR ### and I think he does his job very well. Does he piss off agents and play hard ball on negotiations??? Yes and he always has, this is nothing new here guys and the passing of Lamar Hunt has not made Carl more stingy than he was before.I really don't understand why everyone on this board feels that it's ok for a lot of teams to cave in to player hold outs when they don't have to? Do you want the price of football to go up faster than it already is?I think it's hypocritical that New England gets a free pass for not wanting to pay a hold out Branch because Belichick is a stinking genius and has won some SuperBowls and yet King Carl gets thrown under the bus for trying to do the same thing. I understand that LJ is a better RB than Deion Branch is a WR but NE recieved a first round draft pick as compensation for Branch. Not too shabby a deal for NE, but they had to wait for the market to be right for that deal. KC is rebuilding and doesn't need one of the world's best RB's this season when they're trying to find the QB of the future. LJ has played very well and deserves a new contract when his existing contract runs out or sooner if he gets traded to another team. If LJ played on another team right now then he would have probably already signed a new big payday contract but KC doesn't have to make the same stupid moves that every other team in the league does. Are we as fans more loyal to our teams and what it takes to be successful or are we more loyal to a player who is under contract for good money (even though it's under market value)? This is always the way it is with multiyear contracts that aren't 100% incentive based. Some years you are over paid and some years you are underpaid and then when it's time to get a new contract adjustments get made.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

It'd be great for LJ to hold out and only play 6 games for an abyssmal team. He could work out like a monster and have revenge going for him, sign with someone next year and dominate. We'll see what happens but KC is being ridiculous.

why are we even talking about money and KC being ridiculous???Is Peterson an ###??? Yes, but he's OUR ### and I think he does his job very well. Does he piss off agents and play hard ball on negotiations??? Yes and he always has, this is nothing new here guys and the passing of Lamar Hunt has not made Carl more stingy than he was before.I really don't understand why everyone on this board feels that it's ok for a lot of teams to cave in to player hold outs when they don't have to? Do you want the price of football to go up faster than it already is?I think it's hypocritical that New England gets a free pass for not wanting to pay a hold out Branch because Belichick is a stinking genius and has won some SuperBowls and yet King Carl gets thrown under the bus for trying to do the same thing. I understand that LJ is a better RB than Deion Branch is a WR but NE recieved a first round draft pick as compensation for Branch. Not too shabby a deal for NE, but they had to wait for the market to be right for that deal. KC is rebuilding and doesn't need one of the world's best RB's this season when they're trying to find the QB of the future. LJ has played very well and deserves a new contract when his existing contract runs out or sooner if he gets traded to another team. If LJ played on another team right now then he would have probably already signed a new big payday contract but KC doesn't have to make the same stupid moves that every other team in the league does. Are we as fans more loyal to our teams and what it takes to be successful or are we more loyal to a player who is under contract for good money (even though it's under market value)? This is always the way it is with multiyear contracts that aren't 100% incentive based. Some years you are over paid and some years you are underpaid and then when it's time to get a new contract adjustments get made.

I understand your emotions are a bit more raw in this discussion being a Chiefs fan, but to compare the Branch situation to what KC is going through right now is not a very good comparison. Dieon Branch is not an elite reciver in this league and losing Branch didn't cripple New England at all. The fact that they were able to get a #1 pick for him from Seattle really does show that Belicheck is a genius.LJ is the second best RB in this league and wants to be paid that way. I say good for him that he holds out - KC should show him some respect and get a big deal locked up. If they go into the season without him, its over before it even began. Special players in this league should be paid that way, and LJ is a special player. I don't understand why any fan would show loyalty to a team when that same team will cut ties with a player the second they have no more use for them. Good fo LJ, screw Peterson anyway - he did nothing for us in Philly back in the day.

 

[Bob Magaw]

i hope those that think this is posturing & doubt a hold out are right...

as to KC holding all the leverage because they can franchise him next year... whether he reports or not, that is a given that the team can franchise him in '08, so it isn't like playing 16 games this season improves his lot in that respect (unless he secures a guarantee that he won't be franchised as a condition for reporting, like nate clements got in '06... but than he can just walk)...

unless peterson comes to his senses, i'm starting to think holdout or trade most likely, & latter not that likely...

 

[Jack Burton]

KC is going to have to pay him or trade him. I have no doubts that he is willing to sit out the season and I would probably do the same. This is going to be interesting.

they need to find someone that wants/needs him and who is willing to meet his guaranteed money demands. a few years ago, edge and shaun alexander were both franchised and could of been had for 2nd rounders, but there were no takers. willis mcghaee was dealt for not much more. to me, he isnt worth it. with more and more teams going RBBC, rbs arent valuable anymore. plus, he is 28 years old and coming off a 416 carry season.

He is 27. Why do posters always get this wrong.

 

[Bob Magaw]

this is true... he doesn't actually turn 28 until 11-19 (better than turning 29 in-season)...

 

[Dancing Bear]

I think that folks here are not really giving Peterson the credit he deserves or his ability to regularly sign his quality players.

Look at Gonzalez. Look at Holmes.

Take a look at his most recent comments on Johnson

It is worth considering his overall reason for existing which is to make $ and provide value to his stock-holders. LJ will keep the fans in the stadium and in shirts, etc. LJ will get a reasonable contract just like both Gonzalez, Holmes and others and he will start in Week 1.

 

[bjabrad]

It'd be great for LJ to hold out and only play 6 games for an abyssmal team. He could work out like a monster and have revenge going for him, sign with someone next year and dominate. We'll see what happens but KC is being ridiculous.

why are we even talking about money and KC being ridiculous???Is Peterson an ###??? Yes, but he's OUR ### and I think he does his job very well. Does he piss off agents and play hard ball on negotiations??? Yes and he always has, this is nothing new here guys and the passing of Lamar Hunt has not made Carl more stingy than he was before.I really don't understand why everyone on this board feels that it's ok for a lot of teams to cave in to player hold outs when they don't have to? Do you want the price of football to go up faster than it already is?I think it's hypocritical that New England gets a free pass for not wanting to pay a hold out Branch because Belichick is a stinking genius and has won some SuperBowls and yet King Carl gets thrown under the bus for trying to do the same thing. I understand that LJ is a better RB than Deion Branch is a WR but NE recieved a first round draft pick as compensation for Branch. Not too shabby a deal for NE, but they had to wait for the market to be right for that deal. KC is rebuilding and doesn't need one of the world's best RB's this season when they're trying to find the QB of the future. LJ has played very well and deserves a new contract when his existing contract runs out or sooner if he gets traded to another team. If LJ played on another team right now then he would have probably already signed a new big payday contract but KC doesn't have to make the same stupid moves that every other team in the league does. Are we as fans more loyal to our teams and what it takes to be successful or are we more loyal to a player who is under contract for good money (even though it's under market value)? This is always the way it is with multiyear contracts that aren't 100% incentive based. Some years you are over paid and some years you are underpaid and then when it's time to get a new contract adjustments get made.

I understand your emotions are a bit more raw in this discussion being a Chiefs fan, but to compare the Branch situation to what KC is going through right now is not a very good comparison. Dieon Branch is not an elite reciver in this league and losing Branch didn't cripple New England at all. The fact that they were able to get a #1 pick for him from Seattle really does show that Belicheck is a genius.LJ is the second best RB in this league and wants to be paid that way. I say good for him that he holds out - KC should show him some respect and get a big deal locked up. If they go into the season without him, its over before it even began. Special players in this league should be paid that way, and LJ is a special player. I don't understand why any fan would show loyalty to a team when that same team will cut ties with a player the second they have no more use for them. Good fo LJ, screw Peterson anyway - he did nothing for us in Philly back in the day.

Who is more objective, the guy who has LJ on his fantasy team or wants to be able to draft him or the guy who roots for KC??? Neither! True that I am looking at this more from a KC fan perspective than a fantasy football player but my emotions are far from raw on this. I do want what's best for my team however and I am a fan that can handle sucking it up for a year and playing without LJ and hopefully trading him away for some draft picks because I realize that having a top five RB is less important than having a top 5 defense or QB and I want KC to have an opportunity to get one of those in their quest for a SB.The whole loyalty thing is a big joke. The NFL is big business and cutthroat. Show me a team that is a "nice guy" and I'll show you a loser because this is not a "nice guy" business because there is pride involved here as well as ego's and millions of dollars at stake.

 

[Maui Monster]

The Chief's are in for a nasty surprise if they think they can just replace LJ with Holmes at this stage. The KC O-line was the best in the league when Holmes had his big year. They were the dominant force on the team. Holmes was very gifted at taking advantage of that. They had a very different offense. Al Saunders and **** Vermeil are both gone.

What I saw from LJ last year was amazing. The dude made something out of nothing every game. He is one of a handful of RB's that could produce like he did with the declining situation in KC. It is a shame the front office will not give him a deal in realm of elite RB's.

 

[bjabrad]

The Chief's are in for a nasty surprise if they think they can just replace LJ with Holmes at this stage. The KC O-line was the best in the league when Holmes had his big year. They were the dominant force on the team. Holmes was very gifted at taking advantage of that. They had a very different offense. Al Saunders and **** Vermeil are both gone.What I saw from LJ last year was amazing. The dude made something out of nothing every game. He is one of a handful of RB's that could produce like he did with the declining situation in KC. It is a shame the front office will not give him a deal in realm of elite RB's.

Sounds like you are assuming that KC wants to really try to win this year. Looks to me like they don't care so much about trying to win this year as much as finding a QBOTF and beefing up their DEF which they could do by trading LJ and then playing RBBC with Michael Bennet, Kolby Smith, Priest Holmes and Derek Ross. If KC does end up giving LJ a big pay day it tells me that they don't want to piss off their fans this season or lose sales of KC and LJ merchandise especially during a time when they are being the beneficiary of the extra boost of promotion that HBO's Hard Knocks would give them.