Leigh Bodden not starting in Detroit? (1 Viewer)

[sholditch]

HE racked up tackles for Cleveland last year and I figured he would be starting for sure, but just read that he's running with 2nd team in practice. Any people with a take on this?

 

[Chaos Commish]

This is surprising.

Brian Kelly and Travis Fisher are starting as of now, and it sounds like it could end up that way.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Maybe they'll run the nickel permanently since their linebackers aren't very good (Sims excluded of course).

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Fisher is the returning "VET". Rod doesnt put the new guys into the starting line up front. So for the preseason he is number two....but came regular game time he will be there with Kelly. Bank it!

Marinelli does things different than some coaches. He makes everyone "earn" their spot over an incumbent. You don't hand out $27 million dollar contracts to backups. There is zero doubt in my mind that Bodden starts. As a matter of fact, this is a great time to buy low from those who are in panic mode about this.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

I just listened to Lion's beat writer Tom Kowalski and he explained that Bodden is not starting because Marinelli just does not hand out starting jobs to anyone. He said Bodden is having a great camp and that he fully expects him to be starting in week 1.

You may now breathe.

 

[bcr8f]

People take these early depth charts a little too seriously.

 

[MAC_32]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

 

[Jene Bramel]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

 

[MAC_32]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

Opposing QB's tend to zero in on Bodden on 3rd down, the guy he's supposed to be covering is open. often.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

Opposing QB's tend to zero in on Bodden on 3rd down, the guy he's supposed to be covering is open. often.

I really can't agree with that at all. Bodden is a very good CB.

 

[-baller]

well, I think he just made 5 tackles in, like, 8 plays, so he's cool by me.

 

[MAC_32]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

Opposing QB's tend to zero in on Bodden on 3rd down, the guy he's supposed to be covering is open. often.

I really can't agree with that at all. Bodden is a very good CB.

Based on what? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but all I'm really seeing from Bodden supporters are canned responses without substance. What about him is very good? what has he proven? I'm just asking, everything I've seen out of him indicates he makes a few big plays/year, is good in run support, is awful in coverage, and always seems to have some sort of nagging injury - the makeup of a below avg corner.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

Opposing QB's tend to zero in on Bodden on 3rd down, the guy he's supposed to be covering is open. often.

I really can't agree with that at all. Bodden is a very good CB.

Based on what? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but all I'm really seeing from Bodden supporters are canned responses without substance. What about him is very good? what has he proven? I'm just asking, everything I've seen out of him indicates he makes a few big plays/year, is good in run support, is awful in coverage, and always seems to have some sort of nagging injury - the makeup of a below avg corner.

Bodden is not awful in coverage. I really don't know where you get that from. He is solid in coverage. He has very good ball skills. He is good in run support. He is a solid all around CB. He always played very good against Chad Johnson. He may not be a lock down Champ Bailey type CB, but who is? You don't have to be a stud cover corner in the Tampa-2 defense. You have to be above average in both man and zone, and strong against the run. Bodden is all of those things. I'm not saying Bodden is a pro bowl CB, but he is solid.

 

[J Giles Band]

In the course of this thread Bodden has been referred to as below average to average to solid to very good.

If the distinction is made between fantasy and reality, I think most of us agree that Bodden is a very good fantasy CB.

In reality however, I can't help but think very good would be stretching it when you take into account Bodden's recent play. Especially this past season. The Browns were willing to part with him despite the fact it left them with a severe lack of experience at the position. Sure they addressed their defensive line in acquiring Rogers, but it is obvious the Browns were disappointed in the falloff in Bodden's play.

I remember a couple years ago when Bodden was considered one of the up and coming CB's in the NFL and was thought to have a chance to be very good. And at times he played like it. On the other hand, I think it is more than fair to suggest he played below average quite frequently this past season. I'm pretty sure the Browns thought that.

To me Bodden typifies average. He has the ability to be better than that, but hasn't played up to it. I suppose solid might be fair if he plays better this year. The Cover-2 the Lions employ appears to be a great match for his skill set. That and the change of scenary makes a rebound likely.

Don't you love semantics?

 

[bcr8f]

In the course of this thread Bodden has been referred to as below average to average to solid to very good.

If the distinction is made between fantasy and reality, I think most of us agree that Bodden is a very good fantasy CB.

In reality however, I can't help but think very good would be stretching it when you take into account Bodden's recent play. Especially this past season. The Browns were willing to part with him despite the fact it left them with a severe lack of experience at the position. Sure they addressed their defensive line in acquiring Rogers, but it is obvious the Browns were disappointed in the falloff in Bodden's play.

I remember a couple years ago when Bodden was considered one of the up and coming CB's in the NFL and was thought to have a chance to be very good. And at times he played like it. On the other hand, I think it is more than fair to suggest he played below average quite frequently this past season. I'm pretty sure the Browns thought that.

To me Bodden typifies average. He has the ability to be better than that, but hasn't played up to it. I suppose solid might be fair if he plays better this year. The Cover-2 the Lions employ appears to be a great match for his skill set. That and the change of scenary makes a rebound likely.

Don't you love semantics?

Or(more likely I think) Cleveland didn't want to pay a CB big money and thought they could get someone cheap. Instead of putting the onus on Bodden I put it on the bean counters in Cleveland.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

In the course of this thread Bodden has been referred to as below average to average to solid to very good.

If the distinction is made between fantasy and reality, I think most of us agree that Bodden is a very good fantasy CB.

In reality however, I can't help but think very good would be stretching it when you take into account Bodden's recent play. Especially this past season. The Browns were willing to part with him despite the fact it left them with a severe lack of experience at the position. Sure they addressed their defensive line in acquiring Rogers, but it is obvious the Browns were disappointed in the falloff in Bodden's play.

I remember a couple years ago when Bodden was considered one of the up and coming CB's in the NFL and was thought to have a chance to be very good. And at times he played like it. On the other hand, I think it is more than fair to suggest he played below average quite frequently this past season. I'm pretty sure the Browns thought that.

To me Bodden typifies average. He has the ability to be better than that, but hasn't played up to it. I suppose solid might be fair if he plays better this year. The Cover-2 the Lions employ appears to be a great match for his skill set. That and the change of scenary makes a rebound likely.

Don't you love semantics?

Or(more likely I think) Cleveland didn't want to pay a CB big money and thought they could get someone cheap.

I also think it was strictly based on the Browns not being able to sign him long-term. I do not for a minute believe that Cleveland was disappointed in the play of Bodden.

 

[J Giles Band]

Good points guys.

I agree completely that Bodden's price tag played into the Brown's decision to part ways with him. No argument there whatsoever.

Using the Browns clouded my point... I'm just saying that very good is stretching it in reference to Bodden. Below average may be too harsh although I think it is more accurate considering last season. Solid is probably the closest to the truth, but he will need to play better to earn that this year.

 

[bcr8f]

Good points guys.I agree completely that Bodden's price tag played into the Brown's decision to part ways with him. No argument there whatsoever. Using the Browns clouded my point... I'm just saying that very good is stretching it in reference to Bodden. Below average may be too harsh although I think it is more accurate considering last season. Solid is probably the closest to the truth, but he will need to play better to earn that this year.

He's no Champ Bailey but is a good cover 2 corner.

 

[-baller]

In the course of this thread Bodden has been referred to as below average to average to solid to very good.

If the distinction is made between fantasy and reality, I think most of us agree that Bodden is a very good fantasy CB.

In reality however, I can't help but think very good would be stretching it when you take into account Bodden's recent play. Especially this past season. The Browns were willing to part with him despite the fact it left them with a severe lack of experience at the position. Sure they addressed their defensive line in acquiring Rogers, but it is obvious the Browns were disappointed in the falloff in Bodden's play.

just like it's obvious the pats were disappointed in asante samuel's play...

 

[Jene Bramel]

Based on what? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but all I'm really seeing from Bodden supporters are canned responses without substance. What about him is very good? what has he proven? I'm just asking, everything I've seen out of him indicates he makes a few big plays/year, is good in run support, is awful in coverage, and always seems to have some sort of nagging injury - the makeup of a below avg corner.

If you buy into the pass yards allowed per play metric put forth by Football Outsiders, which has some flaws but still passes the eye test overall, Bodden has been a very solid corner. Over the past three seasons, Bodden has finished with a ypa of 5.3 (2005), 6.8 (2006) and 7.3 (2007). The trend isn't great, obviously, but anything around 7.0 is a very solid number, especially for a corner who plays a lot of zone coverage. Certainly not awful and well within the range of better than average, which was the main thrust of my argument. Though there's some noise involved, both of Bodden's major metric splits, (ypa and success percentage) were better than Eric Wright's. Marvin Lewis thinks Bodden has always been a very underrated player. “I think he’s one of the best corners in the NFL,” Lewis said earlier this week, according to the Detroit Free Press. “I know he’s a competitive player against us and one of the better corners we face week-in and week-out. He’s a big guy. He’s talented. He plays with great leverage. He can run. He plays square at the line. He doesn’t play scared. He’s very competitive."

Chad Johnson thinks Bodden is among the best he's faced, specifically noting that he was the only one to slow him down during his huge 2005 season and continuing that rivalry over the next two seasons.

I think it's as likely that Bodden rebounds overall this season than continues to regress. He stayed healthy for 16 games last season and his drop in coverage numbers (though he still had 15 passes defensed and six interceptions) may have been due as much to the continued decline in pass rush among the front seven. Again using metrics from Football Outsiders, the Browns adjusted sack rate dropped from 5.5% to 5.1% to 4.8% from 2005 to 2007. The Browns ranked in the bottom five in the league in each of those years, but the percentage trend there is even uglier than Bodden's yards allowed trend.

That's the substance behind my Bodden is not a below-average corner argument.

In the course of this thread Bodden has been referred to as below average to average to solid to very good.

If the distinction is made between fantasy and reality, I think most of us agree that Bodden is a very good fantasy CB.

In reality however, I can't help but think very good would be stretching it when you take into account Bodden's recent play. Especially this past season. The Browns were willing to part with him despite the fact it left them with a severe lack of experience at the position. Sure they addressed their defensive line in acquiring Rogers, but it is obvious the Browns were disappointed in the falloff in Bodden's play.

I remember a couple years ago when Bodden was considered one of the up and coming CB's in the NFL and was thought to have a chance to be very good. And at times he played like it. On the other hand, I think it is more than fair to suggest he played below average quite frequently this past season. I'm pretty sure the Browns thought that.

To me Bodden typifies average. He has the ability to be better than that, but hasn't played up to it. I suppose solid might be fair if he plays better this year. The Cover-2 the Lions employ appears to be a great match for his skill set. That and the change of scenary makes a rebound likely.

Don't you love semantics?

You can't underestimate the importance of a strong defensive line in the AFC North. All three divisional opponents (even what looks like pass-heavy offenses in Cincinnati and Pittsburgh), would prefer to control the line of scrimmage whenever possible and especially when the weather changes. At the time of the trade for Rogers, the Browns had Bodden, Eric Wright, Daven Holly and Brandon McDonald. Bodden, in a contract year, was considered expendable for a player who, when motivated, dominates the interior line.It wasn't so much that Bodden's play had tailed off last season, as much as that the Browns had some depth, including an up-and-coming Bodden-esque talent in Eric Wright, an interesting talent in McDonald and a ready-made nickel corner in Holly, while still having concerns at nose tackle.

 

[MAC_32]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

Opposing QB's tend to zero in on Bodden on 3rd down, the guy he's supposed to be covering is open. often.

I really can't agree with that at all. Bodden is a very good CB.

Based on what? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but all I'm really seeing from Bodden supporters are canned responses without substance. What about him is very good? what has he proven? I'm just asking, everything I've seen out of him indicates he makes a few big plays/year, is good in run support, is awful in coverage, and always seems to have some sort of nagging injury - the makeup of a below avg corner.

Bodden is not awful in coverage. I really don't know where you get that from. He is solid in coverage. He has very good ball skills. He is good in run support. He is a solid all around CB. He always played very good against Chad Johnson. He may not be a lock down Champ Bailey type CB, but who is? You don't have to be a stud cover corner in the Tampa-2 defense. You have to be above average in both man and zone, and strong against the run. Bodden is all of those things. I'm not saying Bodden is a pro bowl CB, but he is solid.

Umm, very good against Chad Johnson? Ocho's avg numbers the last 6 games vs. the Browns (and matched up primarily with Bodden)6.5/94.5/.5He may have done well against some other big name WR's but Johnson's a bad example.My awful in coverage opinion comes from watching him. a lot. He gets abused on passing downs repeatedly. Again, he's solid in run support. He should be a better fit in Detroit than he was in Cleveland due to the scheme the Lions run but still I would not feel too good about Bodden in obvious passing downs. He'll make a few big plays here and there but he is much more likely to give up the 1st down. Cleveland's lack of a pass rush certainly didn't help matters, but honestly is Detroit's any better? I doubt it.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

He'll be great in IDP because in reality he's a below avg corner, expect lots of tackles due to soft/poor coverage.

I don't think he's a below average corner. He may have played average to below average at times over the past two seasons, but he's proven himself a very solid player to many NFL observers when healthy.

Opposing QB's tend to zero in on Bodden on 3rd down, the guy he's supposed to be covering is open. often.

I really can't agree with that at all. Bodden is a very good CB.

Based on what? I'm not trying to be condescending or anything but all I'm really seeing from Bodden supporters are canned responses without substance. What about him is very good? what has he proven? I'm just asking, everything I've seen out of him indicates he makes a few big plays/year, is good in run support, is awful in coverage, and always seems to have some sort of nagging injury - the makeup of a below avg corner.

Bodden is not awful in coverage. I really don't know where you get that from. He is solid in coverage. He has very good ball skills. He is good in run support. He is a solid all around CB. He always played very good against Chad Johnson. He may not be a lock down Champ Bailey type CB, but who is? You don't have to be a stud cover corner in the Tampa-2 defense. You have to be above average in both man and zone, and strong against the run. Bodden is all of those things. I'm not saying Bodden is a pro bowl CB, but he is solid.

Umm, very good against Chad Johnson? Ocho's avg numbers the last 6 games vs. the Browns (and matched up primarily with Bodden)6.5/94.5/.5He may have done well against some other big name WR's but Johnson's a bad example.My awful in coverage opinion comes from watching him. a lot. He gets abused on passing downs repeatedly. Again, he's solid in run support. He should be a better fit in Detroit than he was in Cleveland due to the scheme the Lions run but still I would not feel too good about Bodden in obvious passing downs. He'll make a few big plays here and there but he is much more likely to give up the 1st down. Cleveland's lack of a pass rush certainly didn't help matters, but honestly is Detroit's any better? I doubt it.

Here are Chad's game by game numbers in the last 3 years when Bodden was a starter. Bodden's numbers follow. 2005 week 1:Chad 9/91/1Bodden 1 INT, 1 PD2005 week 14Chad 2/22/0Bodden 4 PD2006 week 2Chad 6/78/1Bodden 1 INT, 3 PD2006 week 12Chad 7/123/0Bodden did not play2007 week 2Chad 11/209/2Bodden 1 INT, 1 PD2007 week 16Chad 4/44/0Bodden 2 INTs, 3 PDOther than week 2 of last year, Bodden more than held his own against Chad, who is one of the elite WRs in football. In the 4 other games, Chad averaged about 6/60 and had 2 TDs. Everyone is entitled to one bad game, which was week 2 last year in a game that had 100 points scored. The other games, Bodden was very good, held Chad in check and had 5 INTs.

 

[Golden]

What is the final word? Is Bodden really not starting?

 

[stevegamer]

Bodden is still listed on the FBG & Lions DC's as a reserve.

 

[bcr8f]

Bodden is still listed on the FBG & Lions DC's as a reserve.

Listed yes. Perhaps they are using him like Carolina does Marshall but I expect him to start soon.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

According to the locals, it's just a matter of when. All of the major newspapers and media have been saying it all along.

 

[bcr8f]

According to the locals, it's just a matter of when. All of the major newspapers and media have been saying it all along.

Anything new?

 

[Bizkiteer]

According to the locals, it's just a matter of when. All of the major newspapers and media have been saying it all along.

That would be the logical assumption since they gave him more money. As you know too well, we're talking about the Lions and logical is usually thrown out the window...at least while Millen has been there.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Right now, Marinelli says it has not been decided who will start. He makes everyone earn the jobs, big contracts or not. I'm certain, as the locals are, that Marinelli wants Bodden in the starting lineup, but at the same time, Fisher played well in preseason, so he can't just send him to the nickel role without cause.

My gut agrees with the locals and they believe Bodden will start.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Right now, Marinelli says it has not been decided who will start. He makes everyone earn the jobs, big contracts or not. I'm certain, as the locals are, that Marinelli wants Bodden in the starting lineup, but at the same time, Fisher played well in preseason, so he can't just send him to the nickel role without cause. My gut agrees with the locals and they believe Bodden will start.

You'd have to admit how odd it is that we are a few days away from playing the first game and they still have not determined who will start. Makes you wonder what the coaching staff have been doing during the OTA's, Training Camp and Pre-Season?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Right now, Marinelli says it has not been decided who will start. He makes everyone earn the jobs, big contracts or not. I'm certain, as the locals are, that Marinelli wants Bodden in the starting lineup, but at the same time, Fisher played well in preseason, so he can't just send him to the nickel role without cause. My gut agrees with the locals and they believe Bodden will start.

You'd have to admit how odd it is that we are a few days away from playing the first game and they still have not determined who will start. Makes you wonder what the coaching staff have been doing during the OTA's, Training Camp and Pre-Season?

I think he has decided, but isn't saying.

 

[bcr8f]

Right now, Marinelli says it has not been decided who will start. He makes everyone earn the jobs, big contracts or not. I'm certain, as the locals are, that Marinelli wants Bodden in the starting lineup, but at the same time, Fisher played well in preseason, so he can't just send him to the nickel role without cause. My gut agrees with the locals and they believe Bodden will start.

You'd have to admit how odd it is that we are a few days away from playing the first game and they still have not determined who will start. Makes you wonder what the coaching staff have been doing during the OTA's, Training Camp and Pre-Season?

I think he has decided, but isn't saying.

Bill Belichick would be so proud making opponents game plan for several players.

 

[Bizkiteer]

Right now, Marinelli says it has not been decided who will start. He makes everyone earn the jobs, big contracts or not. I'm certain, as the locals are, that Marinelli wants Bodden in the starting lineup, but at the same time, Fisher played well in preseason, so he can't just send him to the nickel role without cause. My gut agrees with the locals and they believe Bodden will start.

You'd have to admit how odd it is that we are a few days away from playing the first game and they still have not determined who will start. Makes you wonder what the coaching staff have been doing during the OTA's, Training Camp and Pre-Season?

I think he has decided, but isn't saying.

Bill Belichick would be so proud making opponents game plan for several players.

LOL, that is a decent stategy when teams are good or have several viable options, but we're talking about the Lions.

 

[W1cked]

I'm not sure how current it is. but ESPN.com has Bodden as the starter on the depth chart. Maybe he just needs to take a page out of Tatum Bell's playbook and steal Travis Fisher's shoulder pads.

 

[bcr8f]

[LOL, that is a decent stategy when teams are good or have several viable options, but we're talking about the Lions.

I do like Cory Redding and Bodden though this year.