Lesean McCoy? How concerned are we? (1 Viewer)

[rocketsauce]

Touchdown McCoy?!?!

*releases balloons*

Oh, they all deflated, cause I aired them up back in September, last time he scored a TD.

All kidding aside, I hope that gimmee can get him back on track and into the end zone more often.

 

[BearsFan4Life]

Sooooo frustrated with him in dynasty that may deal him for pmanning as I now lost Foles and palmer for the year

 

[prgromek]

I'm shooting off fireworks everytime this guy gets positive yards

 

[cubbie5150]

I'd rather have been stuck w/ ADP, at least then I would've been starting someone else rather than feeling compelled to keep trotting this stiff out there every week. Eagles are winning, however, so it's hard for me to slag on his usage any more. Chip knows what he's doing, and Shady obviously fits in only as a "we only run the same handful of plays for you" chess piece.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

As sure a thing as there ever was as a top 5 pick on FF draft day. We know nothing.

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Kelly was clearly trying to get Sanchez game reps last night. Again and again, Mccoy would come in for the inside handoff, then block while Sanchez went play action. Go in motion, then block. Go in motion, chip a defender, then sit in the flat.

That makes sense to me for this game. I think a lot of coaches would have leaned on the running game, but you don't learn to run that up tempo offense by handing off. So they used him as a decoy, had him protect Sanchez, and give him a chance to shake off the rust, and give him softer looks. Not what mccoy owners want to see, but that was the game plan, imo. And the game flow helped, with those early turnovers by cam and DeAngelo.

The good news is that they got Sanchez plenty of reps, and I think they have to feel comfortable running their full offense now. The bad news is I'm not sure if the Eagles full offense is centered around shady the way it was last year. Still, he should get more carries and yards in the next few games.

(Im out of likes)

 

[jurb26]

Kelly was clearly trying to get Sanchez game reps last night. Again and again, Mccoy would come in for the inside handoff, then block while Sanchez went play action. Go in motion, then block. Go in motion, chip a defender, then sit in the flat.

That makes sense to me for this game. I think a lot of coaches would have leaned on the running game, but you don't learn to run that up tempo offense by handing off. So they used him as a decoy, had him protect Sanchez, and give him a chance to shake off the rust, and give him softer looks. Not what mccoy owners want to see, but that was the game plan, imo. And the game flow helped, with those early turnovers by cam and DeAngelo.

The good news is that they got Sanchez plenty of reps, and I think they have to feel comfortable running their full offense now. The bad news is I'm not sure if the Eagles full offense is centered around shady the way it was last year. Still, he should get more carries and yards in the next few games.

Right, but the problem is that he only posted 12 carries for 19 yds, 1.58 YPA vs one of the worst rush Ds in the NFL (ranked 29th). McCoy has undoubtedly been a bust thus far. There is still a lot to be concerned about as well. If you can't run at least decently vs. that pathetic Panthers D then you're not out of the woods by any stretch.

 

[FUBAR]

Mr McCoy meet the bench starting week 12

 

[bostonfred]

I don't know, that doesn't really bother me. It's not that he was running badly I don't think. He started out rushing the times for 11 yards. Then, pinned inside their ten, he ran on first down and got stuffed for-4. That happens . Next play is an obvious running play with an as yet ineffective Sanchez standing too close to his own goal line, and the Panthers run blitz and hold him for no gain. Now all of a sudden he's 5 for 7. That stuff happens in real games. Its just game flow.

His next the various werent anyyhing special. 2, 5, and minus one. Then he had the one yard td run, which counts as a bad run in yards per carry but is fine by me. Then late in a blowout he had a no gain and a 3 years carry on third and one.

So he had 7 for 17 on "normal" carries, which is ok. -4 and zero pinned inside the ten, which isn't good, but is really situation dependent. A one yard td, again, fine by me. And a 3 yard run on third and 1.

I know you could do the same with other running backs and take away their good or bad carries and blah blah blah. I'm just saying that, for predictive value, I thought he had a sub par game, but it wasn't a total disaster and it doesn't make me think he will be incapable of having a good game next week.

 

[jurb26]

The thing that concerns me still is that Philly hasn't provided very good run blocking all year. Not only that, but Sproles continues to look like the better back and is consistently doing more with every touch. At this point, week 11 of the season, I don't think we can say it's just a fluke anymore.

 

[Sabertooth]

Lots of concern. He's going to be what he's been all year .... a low end RB2.

 

[nastynate]

The guy just isn't great, as many have painted him out to be. He had the benefit of a very good OL and a new system last year. Now the OL has taken a big step back and the system has 25 game tapes, his true colors are showing.

Not only that, but Sproles has taken some of his catches, and for some reason, Philly isn't throwing to the RBs much this year.

They're sitting at 7-2 and the defense has been extremely opportunistic. Just don't see anything changing for Shady. Chris Johnson II -- he'll slowly fade, as he'll lose a step and no longer be as effective.

 

[zamboni]

Kelly was clearly trying to get Sanchez game reps last night. Again and again, Mccoy would come in for the inside handoff, then block while Sanchez went play action. Go in motion, then block. Go in motion, chip a defender, then sit in the flat.

That makes sense to me for this game. I think a lot of coaches would have leaned on the running game, but you don't learn to run that up tempo offense by handing off. So they used him as a decoy, had him protect Sanchez, and give him a chance to shake off the rust, and give him softer looks. Not what mccoy owners want to see, but that was the game plan, imo. And the game flow helped, with those early turnovers by cam and DeAngelo.

The good news is that they got Sanchez plenty of reps, and I think they have to feel comfortable running their full offense now. The bad news is I'm not sure if the Eagles full offense is centered around shady the way it was last year. Still, he should get more carries and yards in the next few games.

That's a pretty good take on it, but I also would think that to give Sanchez a chance to succeed, Kelly would prefer to balance the offense to take pressure of Sanchez.

It may very well be that Kelly is not confident in the team's ability to establish the running game - not hard to see given McCoy's lack of production this year - so he went away from it. That's not to say that they won't be able to run the ball, but it just may not happen this year for McCoy as a plug and play, especially when they also have Sproles to get the ball into space.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Just traded for McCoy in redraft a few weeks ago and I am pretty worried. I don't care about his performance vs his draft day cost, I just want someone I can use every week. I wasn't expecting him to go back to being a top 3 player by any means but that bad of a performance against the Panthers is bad news. I am hoping the theory about getting Sanchez some reps and game flow were big contributors here.

Agree that Sproles looks better and is doing more with his touches, that's disheartening as well. I don't think Chip will really lean on the run just because Sanchez is in there, I don't think Chip thinks that way.

 

[humpback]

I don't know, that doesn't really bother me. It's not that he was running badly I don't think. He started out rushing the times for 11 yards. Then, pinned inside their ten, he ran on first down and got stuffed for-4. That happens . Next play is an obvious running play with an as yet ineffective Sanchez standing too close to his own goal line, and the Panthers run blitz and hold him for no gain. Now all of a sudden he's 5 for 7. That stuff happens in real games. Its just game flow.

His next the various werent anyyhing special. 2, 5, and minus one. Then he had the one yard td run, which counts as a bad run in yards per carry but is fine by me. Then late in a blowout he had a no gain and a 3 years carry on third and one.

So he had 7 for 17 on "normal" carries, which is ok. -4 and zero pinned inside the ten, which isn't good, but is really situation dependent. A one yard td, again, fine by me. And a 3 yard run on third and 1.

I know you could do the same with other running backs and take away their good or bad carries and blah blah blah. I'm just saying that, for predictive value, I thought he had a sub par game, but it wasn't a total disaster and it doesn't make me think he will be incapable of having a good game next week.

Even with the cherry picking, on what planet is 7 for 17 (at home against one of the worst rushing defenses in the league) "ok"?

 

[Shutout]

The guy just isn't great, as many have painted him out to be. He had the benefit of a very good OL and a new system last year. Now the OL has taken a big step back and the system has 25 game tapes, his true colors are showing.

Not only that, but Sproles has taken some of his catches, and for some reason, Philly isn't throwing to the RBs much this year.

They're sitting at 7-2 and the defense has been extremely opportunistic. Just don't see anything changing for Shady. Chris Johnson II -- he'll slowly fade, as he'll lose a step and no longer be as effective.

Disagree. NO RB can play very well without an o-line. No QB can either. THe O-line is overlooked in fantasy but it is the absolute lynch pin for real life teams. That's part of the reason why they say, following a franchise QB, a franchise tackle is the most important piece of a football team. It's part of the reason why guy like Mankins literally transitioned his team from Ho hum to one of the best when he arrived. It is a very important thing and silly of us to ignore and pin all the woes of life on a guy that "just isn't as good as we thought".

I get it: you're disappointed. We all are. But blaming the wrong thing will only set you up to make a mistake later in evaluating.

 

[Shutout]

Going off the topic of us crying about the fate of our top 5 pick, can we ask why, after such success with Shady last year, is Chip seemingly going away from this strength (and seemingly choosing to ignore developing Ertz as many thought would happen)?

Is this kind of his M.O.? Is he one of these guys that is always trying to zig when he thinks people are zagging?

Is this just the natural next step of his type of offense? (in an ideal, fully functional Chip offense, is the RB not an important piece)?

I'm past crying about what is. I just want to get an understanding of what we are working up to.

 

[Warpig]

I've had him on the trading block all year. Nobody wants him. So I'm stuck with him. Considering dropping him since its a salary cap league and he's pretty much the most expensive player. Was hoping to get a 2015 2nd round rookie pick but I'd be lucky to get anything. Sproles and Kelly are killing him.

 

[Koya]

He's a pretty solid handcuff for Sproles and even worth a spot start. What's the concern?

 

[SameSongNDance]

Going off the topic of us crying about the fate of our top 5 pick, can we ask why, after such success with Shady last year, is Chip seemingly going away from this strength (and seemingly choosing to ignore developing Ertz as many thought would happen)?

Is this kind of his M.O.? Is he one of these guys that is always trying to zig when he thinks people are zagging?

Is this just the natural next step of his type of offense? (in an ideal, fully functional Chip offense, is the RB not an important piece)?

I'm past crying about what is. I just want to get an understanding of what we are working up to.

I agree with your previous post btw. The OL is the most important contributor to a RB's success (or failure) and it's never talked about. I think it's because by and large people don't know how to properly evaluate OLs (me included). However, I seem to remember McCoy being the most hit RBs behind the LOS last year (will have to find that stat) and he still had a career year. To me, he seems to be attempting the same lateral movements but just doesn't have the same lateral agility. I don't know what it is, but those same moves that would usually net him positive yardage when in a pinch last year just aren't working for him. He was the master of turning negative plays into positive yardage last year...the ####### master.

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

He's a pretty solid handcuff for Sproles and even worth a spot start. What's the concern?

:ROFLAO:

 

[Judge Smails]

Somehow, miraculously, I am 10-0 with McCoy being drafted #1 overall in my 12 team redraft. I thought the last few weeks, where he was ripping off the 8-10 yard runs he is known for, would be the way it would go the rest of the year. Especially as more of the O-line returned. Last night sucked. He's been a major disappointment. I can't understand their use of him at all.

It doesn't matter. I have the bye and am committed to playing him the rest of the way. The only week I benched him he went over 100. Figures. Rest of my team will have to step up.

 

[Mordraken]

Agree that Sproles looks better and is doing more with his touches, that's disheartening as well. I don't think Chip will really lean on the run just because Sanchez is in there, I don't think Chip thinks that way.

I think Sproles looks like the best player on offense. I don't know why he isn't getting 70% of the workload (except perhaps his small size and to protect him from a pounding).

If I was the Panthers, and I was facing the Eagles with Mark Sanchez, I would load the box with 8 and leave 3 back in pass coverage. Let Mark Sanchez beat me. Given that expectation, I would expect Chip to counter with play-action passes, quick routes (slants and hooks) to do the opposite of what the Carolina defense would be keying on.

While I can't say for sure if Carolina did actually plug that many defenders into the box (I don't think so for the most part) the Chip Kelly offense last night was exaclty made to counter a run-heavy defense. Philly clearly beat Carolina through the air, and didn't get anything on the ground, and also didn't try to establish anything on the ground (37% rushing attempts).

Next week it is the Packers. I think Mark Sanchez has done something to warrent some more attention to the passing game, so I think that will open up some running lanes for the Eagles backs. Which one I'm not sure... If I was the coach I'd use Shady to relieve Sproles just based on how quick Sproles looks. I am also not sure how close this game will be. Someone above described the Eagles defense as "opportunistic". I think that is a fantastic description. They're ranked 21st in overall defense, but surprisingly are -5 in turnovers (24th). Pehraps their takeaways have lead to more points than their giveaways have... But I don't expect either their defense to contain the Packers, or their takeaways to be positive in this game. If anything, this is going to be a revealing game for the Eagles defense which will force the Eagles to abandon the run early. Lots of passing from Sanchez will expose him too (will he be the guy that threw for 360 yards last night again? or will he be the guy who threw for 43 yards in a game (or something like that...)?).

Enough rambling... I would be very hesitant about starting McCoy next week. Thank goodness I grabbed Ahmad Bradshaw at the start of the season... he's been starting for my team for the past month (discounting this past week's bye) and I've been happy for the decision.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Pick two of these guys ROS:

Shady

Gio

Rashad Jennings

 

[Koya]

Pick two of these guys ROS:

Shady

Gio

Rashad Jennings

I'd go shady then Jennings then gio.

If I had confidence Jennings would be close to 100% this week maybe I pop him up. Gio has been dinged and it's not like he has no one stealing touches either.

 

[Sabertooth]

At least Gio is getting catches in ppr lesgues

 

[Slider]

I'm a huge Eagles fan and I doubt Shady is here on draft day. I think Chip simply doesn't like the guy. Him or his game.

 

[jurb26]

I'm a huge Eagles fan and I doubt Shady is here on draft day. I think Chip simply doesn't like the guy. Him or his game.

Why would he suddenly not like him? He liked him quite a bit last season.

 

[Bacon]

Is the O-Line still in shambles or can we blame Shady's poor running on Shady yet?

 

[unckeyherb]

Teams are stacking the box, covering man to man and taking shady out of the game, forcing Foles (now Sanchez) to beat them with his arm. One team so far has inexplicably not done exactly that-the Giants. It's no coincidence that the NY game was his best so far, by far. Chip is not Andy Reid. He doesn't enter into a game with a script and refuse to deviate from it. Whatever the defense gives, he takes. Last night he said in his presser that Carolina was stacking against the run and giving them looks between the hash marks. This opened things up for Celek and Matthews and they both unsurprisingly had their best games of the season.

FWIW, the advent of a better passing game thru Sanchez and the emergence of Matthews is IMO going to force defensive coordinators to respect the pass more, which will lead Chip to start leaning on shady more. In fact it wouldn't surprise me in the least that shady has his best game of the year following the big primetime coming out party of Sanchez to Matthews.

If my trade deadline wasn't up last week i'd be pouncing on owners bemoaning yesterdays crap-fest and getting shady on my team.

One fan's opinion and observations. Don't own him anywhere fwiw.

 

[Slider]

I'm a huge Eagles fan and I doubt Shady is here on draft day. I think Chip simply doesn't like the guy. Him or his game.

Why would he suddenly not like him? He liked him quite a bit last season.

Just his actions and comments the past year. And Shady ran great last year but you see what Chip did in the offseason too.....right?

 

[bostonfred]

Is Shady getting fewer looks this season? Let's see.

Through nine games, he has 173 carries. Through nine games last season, he had 167.

That's a pace for 308 carries on the season. How many carries did McCoy have last year? 314.

What about in the passing game? A little. He's getting one fewer target per game.

Through nine games last year, he had 29 catches.

Through nine games this year, he has 21 catches.

Is it because he's getting fewer targets? A little. He's getting one fewer target per game.

Through nine games this year, he has 29 targets.

Through nine games last year, he had 37 targets.

Is it because he's getting fewer touchdowns? A little, but that could just be flukey.

Through nine games this year, he has 2 TDs.

Through nine games last year, he had 4 TDs. He would go on to score 7 more in the final 7 games including three multi TD games.

I think the problem is pretty obviously the yards per carry and yards per reception. So let's address talking point number one - that Chip just isn't using him - and say that that's really not the case.

 

[bostonfred]

While we're at it, let's also address the Sproles complaints. If anything, Sproles is stealing a catch per game from him, and not taking away from his carry totals. I think a lot of people remember huge plays from Sproles - an 8 yard touchdown run and a special teams touchdown this week, for example - and don't realize that was Sproles' only rushing attempt, and he was only targeted twice all game - for one catch for 13 yards. Sproles has had a couple monster games - his 7 catch for 152 yards and 4 rushes for 26 yards and a TD week 2 spring to mind - but McCoy also had a good game that week, with 102 total yards and a TD of his own. Since that game, here are Sproles' receiving numbers:

3 catches for 30 yards on 4 targets

2 catches for 2 yards on 4 targets

0 catches for 0 yards on 0 targets

0 catches for 0 yards on 4 targets

(out)

4 catches for 46 yards on 5 targets

1 catch for 13 yards on 2 targets

Does that really look like Sproles is taking anything away from McCoy? Or like Chip is redesigning the whole offense around Sproles because he hates McCoy? Let's put those ideas to rest, too.

 

[jurb26]

Has anyone been arguing that he is t being used? Seems he just sucks this year.

 

[jurb26]

While we're at it, let's also address the Sproles complaints. If anything, Sproles is stealing a catch per game from him, and not taking away from his carry totals. I think a lot of people remember huge plays from Sproles - an 8 yard touchdown run and a special teams touchdown this week, for example - and don't realize that was Sproles' only rushing attempt, and he was only targeted twice all game - for one catch for 13 yards. Sproles has had a couple monster games - his 7 catch for 152 yards and 4 rushes for 26 yards and a TD week 2 spring to mind - but McCoy also had a good game that week, with 102 total yards and a TD of his own. Since that game, here are Sproles' receiving numbers:3 catches for 30 yards on 4 targets2 catches for 2 yards on 4 targets0 catches for 0 yards on 0 targets0 catches for 0 yards on 4 targets(out)4 catches for 46 yards on 5 targets1 catch for 13 yards on 2 targetsDoes that really look like Sproles is taking anything away from McCoy? Or like Chip is redesigning the whole offense around Sproles because he hates McCoy? Let's put those ideas to rest, too.

The issue isn't Sproles stealing his touches. It's that Sproles looks significantly better when he touches the ball. I mean, not by a little bit either. Like an All Pro and JAG.

 

[bostonfred]

So if we can agree that the problem isn't volume, but production, the next question is WHY the production is lower. And certainly we can point to some obvious things - the O line injuries, for example. Some of you may remember that there were some guys hurt or something. Here's a post from earlier this season explaining how bad things were at one time.

(see below)

That's not just normal bad, it's unusually bad. Maybe even Miami Dolphins 2013 bad. Things have improved since then - and should improve more later this season as has been mentioned repeatedly - but the offensive line is certainly a legitimate point of discussion. So that's one point that should be addressed.

 

[bostonfred]

Lane Johnson (RT) - Returning Week 5 from suspension

Todd Herremans (RG) - Not hurt, but getting a little old. Currently graded at -2.6 on PFF

Jason Kelce © - Left yesterday's game with an abdomen injury. Current status unclear.

Dennis Kelly (LG) - Essentially 3rd-string but looks like he will be the starter for the rest of the year. They lost Evan Mathis and Allen Barbre for the year. Kelly currently graded at -1.8. He will be adequate at best.

Jason Peters (LT) - Ejected from yesterday's game. Will return next week.

Impressive they are 3-0 with that all happening.

the TE was next in line yesterday if there were any other injuries

I'll continue to break this into separate posts in case people want to quote it, but please don't quote this one - it sucks reading threads with lots of multiquotes.

 

[bostonfred]

It's not fair to blame it all on the O line, though. His yards per reception shouldn't be affected by poor O line play, and they're down from 10 yards per reception last year to 4.5 this year.

That seems extremely concerning, but in reality, last year was a huge outlier. Here are his yards per carry totals from his career:

2013 52/539 10.4

2012 54/373 6.9

2011 48/315 6.5

2010 78/592 7.5

2009 40/308 7.7

Now, 4.5 is still a large drop off from 6.5, or his previous four year average of 7.2, but it's not nearly as significant as the dropoff from 2013. Is it possible that we're dealing with a sample size issue?

Similarly, let's take a look at his rushing yards/carry - which is down to 3.7. That's way off his yards per carry for his career:

2013 314/1607 5.11

2012 200/840 4.2

2011 273/1309 4.79

2010 207/1080 8.21

2009 155/637 4.11

That's definitely lower than his career numbers. But prior to last night's game, it was 3.86. It dropped off to 3.7 in one game. In half a season, one stinker can have a huge impact on your yards per carry, just like one great game can raise it way up.

So what's causing this? Is it one bad game? Nine bad games? Is he playing worse overall, or just having a few bad games?

 

[jurb26]

Oddly enough, the Philly oline ranks 4th best in DVOA run blocking rankings.

 

[bostonfred]

Through nine games this year, here are McCoy's numbers:

1 21/74 6/41

2 20/79 4/23 1 TD

3 19/22 0/0

4 10/17 0/0

5 24/81 4/5

6 22/149 2/5

8 21/83 3/14

9 24/117 1/6

10 12/19 1/-2

A couple things stand out to me here. First, he looked good weeks 1, 2, 6 and 9. Those are good games no matter your scoring system. Weeks 5 and 8 weren't that bad, either. They weren't up to the high expectations people had when they took him first overall, but they were fine for in between games.

It's those other three games. 41 carries for 58 yards, good for 1.4 yards per carry. Oof. Compare that with his six good games, where he averaged 4.45 yards per carry.

Of course, it's a huge no-no to cherry pick numbers like that. If I take away the three - THREE! - worst games from THIS season, shouldn't I do the same for every season? I mean, that's not totally accurate either, but at least it gives us an idea of whether he's playing somewhere in the range of his career numbers.

So let's see if he had any stinkers last year.

20/46/1

18/55

15/48

12/44

Those aren't numbers to write home about, and that was four stinkers in the first nine games of his best year as a pro.

Still, part of the difference is that his stinkers have been stinkier. If you didn't know who he was, and only watched last night's game against the Panthers, you'd have said, man, 25 sucks. But if you had only watched him break off his best game of the season, 22/149 against the Giants, you'd have sworn he was the second coming of LeSean McCoy with 7 yards per carry.

So his stinkers have been stinkier, but what about his good games?

31/184 against the Redskins last year, when they were one of the worst Ds in the league. When he faced the Redskins this year, they were playing some of the best run D in the league. 20/158 against the Chiefs. The Chiefs were playing good defense early last year, too, although a lot of that was getting a lot of turnovers. After that, his next best games were 25 for 116, 16 for 73 and 11 for 53 (4.5/carry) - kind of in line with his middling games this year.

Same thing goes for his receiving numbers. Last year he had a monster game week 2 against San Diego, with 5 catches for 114. He had a couple other decent games - 6 for 46, 2 for 55, 4 for 36 - but he also had games like 1 for 5, 1 for 21, 4 for 17, and 0 for 0, kind of like this year.

So what's different between this year and last? He's only had one huge game through the first nine weeks this year, compared with three last year. He's had three bad rushing games this year, compared with four through the first nine weeks of last year. But the ones this year were way uglier. Again, is it possible that sample size played into this at all?

 

[bostonfred]

So now let's take a look at those stinkers:

Week 3 against Washington, the Redskins scored on the first possession. The Eagles returned the ensuing kickoff 102 yards for a touchdown. The Redskins would drive for another touchdown, and the Eagles had their first offensive possession with 2:01 left in the first quarter. McCoy ran for 1 and then 9 yards, Foles picked up a first down, Sproles ran for 2 yards, then Sproles again for 18 yards - and a fumble. Oof. The Redskins complete a long field goal drive, and the Eagles get the ball for the second time in the game with 8:49 left in the second quarter, having possessed the ball for just 2 minutes and 21 seconds in out of the first 21:11.

This drive starts with a 50 yard pass to Maclin - and a 10 yard penalty as a bonus. McCoy ran the ball three times - for 2, 1, and -2 - before Foles threw a touchdown.

What do you think happened next? The Redskins once again drove, completing a 12 play, 54 yard drive with a field goal with just over a minute left in the half. Out of the first 29 minutes, the Eagles possessed the ball for just 5:18, and had just two offensive possessions before they were forced into a one minute drill at the end of the half. The Eagles pass the ball on ten of their next eleven plays - with one Nick Foles scramble - and pass for the go ahead touchdown, going up 21-20 at halftime.

To start the half, McCoy had a four yard run, then got crushed by DeAngelo Hall, who stripped the ball out of bounds. Not good for Shady, no sir. But it also goes down in the books as a 5 yard loss. And while the Eagles kept the ball, they didn't use McCoy for the rest of that drive, scoring a field goal, 24-20.

The next drive, the Eagles got the ball with great field position, and McCoy got the ball three times - running for 2, 0, and -2 on "running downs". Another field goal, and the Eagles lead 27-20. With 2 minutes left in the third, down by 7, the Redskins strike back with a 81 yard touchdown on the first play of the drive. 27-27.

Now McCoy gets the ball, and runs for 4 yards and 3 yards, but a couple Foles incompletions stall the drive. Punt. McCoy gets the ball again the next drive. 3 yards up the middle. Two Foles incompletions. Punt.

Next drive, McCoy gets one carry, which is nullified by a holding call but didn't go anywhere anyways. Foles then passes 7 straight times, and finishes with a touchdown. Eagles lead 34-27. Undaunted, Kirk Cousins leads the troops onto the field... and throws an interception on the first play. Oof.

So now, with 7 minutes left, the Eagles decide to run off the clock. It would be great if McCoy tore off 5 and 10 yard runs here, but these are the toughest spots to run the ball, when the opposing team knows you're trying to run out the clock, but it's even worse because the Eagles hadn't run the ball at all so far in the game. The Redskins defense had barely been on the field in the first half, and they'd mostly just been defending against pass plays in the second half. McCoy runs twice for 1 yard each, Foles throws an incompletion, field goal. The Redskins score, and the Eagles again try to run the clock out, with McCoy going for 0 yards on both first and second, then Foles throws incomplete. Punt. The Redskins go four and out, and the Eagles again need to run the clock out - running McCoy for -1 yard.

So what did we learn in this game? Well, obviously McCoy didn't have a big game. But this was one of those game flows that just sucks for him. They barely had the ball in the first half, they didn't have any time to gas the defense with their hurry-up, and they tried to run the clock out with him in the second half, getting five carries for 1 yard in the waning minutes of the game. It wasn't good play on his part - not at all - but that game was just a tough one for any running back to get good numbers.

 

[bostonfred]

OK, so he had a really bad game against a tough run defense week 3. That's understandable - especially considering that those offensive line woes I quoted earlier were in full swing. But what about week 4? Well, again, the O line was at its worst stage in the season, and they played at San Francisco, a terrible team to face when your O line is crippled.

The first drive is all Foles. 6 plays, all passes, as the Eagles weren't going to try to run on the 49ers D to start the game. They punt, the 49ers go 3 and out, and then, much like last game, the Eagles get a quick score, this time a blocked punt returned for a touchdown. And then again, the Eagles had a defensive touchdown, returning a Kaepernick interception. And then another special teams touchdown, this time a punt return.

Much like the prior week, McCoy barely ran the ball in the first half - just four times for two total yards - as the Eagles possessed the ball for just 6:17 of the first 29 minutes and did absolutely nothing to wear down the run D.

So how does the second half start? First drive, McCoy runs for 4 yards on first down, then Ertz fumbles on second down. Second drive, McCoy runs for 0, then 5 yards, then Foles throws incomplete, punt. Third drive, Foles throws two passes, the second of which is intercepted. Fourth drive, McCoy gets one carry for -4 yards as the Eagles go three and out again.

Again, the difference in time of possession is staggering, with the Eagles holding the ball for just 12 minutes and 29 seconds out of the first 53:34. On the penultimate drive of the game, Shady actually ran twice, for five yards each, including a five yard run on second and goal from the 6, but on 3rd and 4th downs, Foles throws back to back incompletions and the 49ers complete the game winning goal line stand.

Again - McCoy didn't have a good individual game. But his O line was in shambles, he was facing a tough run D on the road, and the time of possession was ridiculously skewed by not one, not two, but three philly defensive/special teams touchdowns in the first half. That's a terrible game flow for a running back to get big points.

 

[dcgangstas]

Considering Green Bay is30th in the NFL versus the run (@ 143.5 rushing yards/game), if ever the game plan dictated to run the ball to keep Aaron Rodgers and co. off the field, this is it.

The offensive line play has been inconsistent due to the injuries this season, but McCoy just doesn't seem to have that trademark burst. And he's a non-factor in the passing game.

Given that he's 6th in the league in rushing, I wouldn't call him a "bust", but rather a major disappointment.

 

[bostonfred]

Before I repeat myself, does anyone remember what happened last night's game against the Panthers? I'll give you a hint - lots of quick scoring early, including a special teams touchdown and a bunch of turnovers. McCoy barely touched the ball, and was pulled for most of the fourth quarter because it was 45-14. Even his touchdown was a fluke - Sanchez threw a 30 yard TD pass against a Panthers pass D that simply couldn't stop them but he was called down at the one, and McCoy could run the ball in. It was another terrible game flow for him, they were able to pass successfully, they were trying to get Sanchez rolling (and he sucked in the first quarter, completing just two of seven passes and 0 for 2 on first down). They had McCoy chipping defenders, or just outright pass blocking, on most of his plays.

The point is - those were three terrible games, but they're all understandable in context. And the rest of his games are pretty normal for him - he had 122 carries for 583 yards in the other 6 games, and 20 catches for 94 yards.

So for my money, I think that yes, the small sample size that includes three terrible games has badly impacted him. A hurt O line hasn't helped. And he's not dominating the way he did at times last year, although he had some bad weeks last year, too. All this stuff about Chip not using him, or McCoy looking bad week in and week out, or Sproles getting more touches than him - it's all a load of crap. Don't be scared off by the season totals or by a couple of bad, bad games. Even after a bad start, he's still on pace for 1300 yards and 4 TDs - and has played most of his games like a back on a far better pace than that.

He's a riskier play this year because the Eagles D/ST can take over a games and the team no longer revolves entirely around McCoy. But for my money, he's one of the best backs in the league for the second half of this season, with games against the Packers, Titans, and Cowboys twice in the final six weeks, and even the Redskins D, which was playing great to start the year, has been beaten up by DeMarco Murray and, um, Matt Asiata in their last two games. Coming off a nightmare game on national TV, he'll be cheaper than ever before with way more pedigree than guys at a similar price. I'm a believer.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

At least Gio is getting catches in ppr lesgues

Not really. At least not recently.

Bernard's last 5 games receiving are...

1-7

2-10

4-20

2-1

2-2

He was getting more looks in weeks 1 and 2, but then again so was Shady.

 

[NickyHatton]

I agree with your previous post btw. The OL is the most important contributor to a RB's success (or failure) and it's never talked about. I think it's because by and large people don't know how to properly evaluate OLs (me included). However, I seem to remember McCoy being the most hit RBs behind the LOS last year (will have to find that stat) and he still had a career year. To me, he seems to be attempting the same lateral movements but just doesn't have the same lateral agility. I don't know what it is, but those same moves that would usually net him positive yardage when in a pinch last year just aren't working for him. He was the master of turning negative plays into positive yardage last year...the ####### master.

This is has been my line of thinking all year. He just doesn't look like the same back this year when making his jump cuts, doesn't have the same explosion out of them. Even in that game vs the Giants a few weeks back when he ran for 100+ he didn't look like the same back. McCoy is easily one of the best backs in the league, but he doesn't seem right this year.

This is all conjecture, but that could be due to that toe issue people were talking about back in the preseason. I have him in one league but I don't really have any faith in him single-handedly winning me any games later this year

 

[jimmykick]

Before I repeat myself, does anyone remember what happened last night's game against the Panthers? I'll give you a hint - lots of quick scoring early, including a special teams touchdown and a bunch of turnovers. McCoy barely touched the ball, and was pulled for most of the fourth quarter because it was 45-14. Even his touchdown was a fluke - Sanchez threw a 30 yard TD pass against a Panthers pass D that simply couldn't stop them but he was called down at the one, and McCoy could run the ball in. It was another terrible game flow for him, they were able to pass successfully, they were trying to get Sanchez rolling (and he sucked in the first quarter, completing just two of seven passes and 0 for 2 on first down). They had McCoy chipping defenders, or just outright pass blocking, on most of his plays.

The point is - those were three terrible games, but they're all understandable in context. And the rest of his games are pretty normal for him - he had 122 carries for 583 yards in the other 6 games, and 20 catches for 94 yards.

So for my money, I think that yes, the small sample size that includes three terrible games has badly impacted him. A hurt O line hasn't helped. And he's not dominating the way he did at times last year, although he had some bad weeks last year, too. All this stuff about Chip not using him, or McCoy looking bad week in and week out, or Sproles getting more touches than him - it's all a load of crap. Don't be scared off by the season totals or by a couple of bad, bad games. Even after a bad start, he's still on pace for 1300 yards and 4 TDs - and has played most of his games like a back on a far better pace than that.

He's a riskier play this year because the Eagles D/ST can take over a games and the team no longer revolves entirely around McCoy. But for my money, he's one of the best backs in the league for the second half of this season, with games against the Packers, Titans, and Cowboys twice in the final six weeks, and even the Redskins D, which was playing great to start the year, has been beaten up by DeMarco Murray and, um, Matt Asiata in their last two games. Coming off a nightmare game on national TV, he'll be cheaper than ever before with way more pedigree than guys at a similar price. I'm a believer.

thanks BF you've given me some hope!

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Just want to say brilliant stuff and support fred. Thanks for taking the time. Still a lot to be optimistic about is my takeaway.

 

[Team Smokin']

Hard to believe that my ship either sinks or swims with McCoy. Win titles or kiss my sister. All my other pieces are in place. Brady & Gronk. Foster a huge surprise. Wide receivers all producing. Detroit D. Parkey. C'mon Man!

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

Hard to believe that my ship either sinks or swims with McCoy. Win titles or kiss my sister. All my other pieces are in place. Brady & Gronk. Foster a huge surprise. Wide receivers all producing. Detroit D. Parkey. C'mon Man!

Very similar boat. Scraped and clawed to get everything else at the table and its now set. Just need the last thing we thought we'd worry about to start beasting.