Grigs Allmoon
Footballguy
Nah. Read back in the thread. He's washed up. Nothing left. Averaged like 3.2 YPC last year and has no chance to better that. Move on.
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LeSean McCoy (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter GStrot
- Start date
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
It's a timeshare guys. I don't expect McCoy to avg 8 fps next week, nor do I expect Williams to average 2 fps. OTOH, I also expect McCoy to get a few more targets as the weeks go on.
As always just my opinion...and fwiw, I own no shares of Williams and some shares of McCoy
As always just my opinion...and fwiw, I own no shares of Williams and some shares of McCoy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Here's some information for the box score scouts.
Overall, this game was strange because of the injuries (both quarterbacks got hurt, the top receiver got hurt, a top defensive player got ejected, and the chiefs got 3 touchdowns from a single receiver). So it's not going to have as much predictive value as a "normal" game. But we can still look at usage.
Williams averaged about 12 rushes and 5 catches last year. He had 13 rushes and 6 catches yesterday.
Williams had two goal line touches (a catch and a rush) and he converted for the only score. McCoy didn't get a goal line touch.
Williams had 6 receptions, McCoy had one.
I know most of you didn't watch the fourth quarter, because the television feed cut out due to a power outage in the network's van.
McCoy had 4 rushes for 21 yards and a catch for 12 through 3 quarters.
Williams had 6 rushes for 10 yards and a touchdown plus 6 catches for 39 yards through those same 3 quarters.
Darwin Thompson had 1 catch for 3 yards, his only target in the game.
In the fourth quarter of a blowout, where mahomes hurt his ankle, Hill was at an orthopedic trauma center, and Matt Moore was the quarterback for the Chiefs for the final two drives, McCoy had rushes of 19 and 31 yards, and 4 more rushes for a total of 10 yards.
That's not the "take away his two biggest runs and he didn't have a good day"argument, it's a statement on his usage. When they needed to run the clock out, Williams got 7 carries for 16 yards and McCoy had 6 carries for 60.
I didn't see anything that makes me think that Williams won't continue to get about 10 to 12 carries and 4 to 5 catches a week plus a good amount of goal line work. I think McCoy played pretty well and is earning a good portion of the work too. Williams got a lot more touches this week but that will vary and McCoy could get a couple more at Williams' expense some weeks. I was happy to see that Thompson didn't touch the ball. Overall this looked pretty ok to me.
Overall, this game was strange because of the injuries (both quarterbacks got hurt, the top receiver got hurt, a top defensive player got ejected, and the chiefs got 3 touchdowns from a single receiver). So it's not going to have as much predictive value as a "normal" game. But we can still look at usage.
Williams averaged about 12 rushes and 5 catches last year. He had 13 rushes and 6 catches yesterday.
Williams had two goal line touches (a catch and a rush) and he converted for the only score. McCoy didn't get a goal line touch.
Williams had 6 receptions, McCoy had one.
I know most of you didn't watch the fourth quarter, because the television feed cut out due to a power outage in the network's van.
McCoy had 4 rushes for 21 yards and a catch for 12 through 3 quarters.
Williams had 6 rushes for 10 yards and a touchdown plus 6 catches for 39 yards through those same 3 quarters.
Darwin Thompson had 1 catch for 3 yards, his only target in the game.
In the fourth quarter of a blowout, where mahomes hurt his ankle, Hill was at an orthopedic trauma center, and Matt Moore was the quarterback for the Chiefs for the final two drives, McCoy had rushes of 19 and 31 yards, and 4 more rushes for a total of 10 yards.
That's not the "take away his two biggest runs and he didn't have a good day"argument, it's a statement on his usage. When they needed to run the clock out, Williams got 7 carries for 16 yards and McCoy had 6 carries for 60.
I didn't see anything that makes me think that Williams won't continue to get about 10 to 12 carries and 4 to 5 catches a week plus a good amount of goal line work. I think McCoy played pretty well and is earning a good portion of the work too. Williams got a lot more touches this week but that will vary and McCoy could get a couple more at Williams' expense some weeks. I was happy to see that Thompson didn't touch the ball. Overall this looked pretty ok to me.
Banger
Footballguy
the biggest argument against Shady was that he was done and lost his speed as evidenced by his 3.2 ypc last year...there was nothing to indicate that watching his runs. Side by side McCoy looked much more spry and he's been in the offense a week. I would consider myself an optimistic McCoy owner and there's no way I would thought he'd get half the touches week 1.
Not sure how you could watch week 1 if you're a Williams owner and not be extremely disappointed...yes, he got a TD which makes the box score look ok but how much longer will they give equal shares if one guy is running at 2 ypc and the other at 8 in the same offense.
Not sure how you could watch week 1 if you're a Williams owner and not be extremely disappointed...yes, he got a TD which makes the box score look ok but how much longer will they give equal shares if one guy is running at 2 ypc and the other at 8 in the same offense.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
He's still got it, going in for Sony in my lineup next week
rockaction
Footballguy
Yeah, I think the real takeaway, without boxscore parsing, is that McCoy's role just gets bigger. He's a better pure running back right now and now is what is calling. Not a year from now. Not a year ago with Buffalo now. Not preseason now or how he got cut from Buffalo now.
Now.
Better runner.
Game over.
Now.
Better runner.
Game over.
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rockaction
Footballguy
And Tyreek Hill being hurt with Eggshell Sammy only helps to bolster the amount of touches in the timeshare.
Banger
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
Great insight overall, but you completely lost me with the bolded. The forest of these trees is that McCoy looked notably better yesterday. It was one game, but still... Williams looked fine, while McCoy looked Shady. If you didn't see that, then you simply refused to look IMO.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Shady looked great running the ball yesterday (and this preseason). I handcuff all my backs so wound up getting both Williams/Shady.
This offense will support 2 RB (PPR) having fantasy value but more confident in Shady's value going forward. I expect his role to grow. PPR will keep Williams having value. JMO Williams owners yesterday -- myself included -- got a bit lucky that he got goalline work. I don't expect that to last much longer. There's just too large of difference in the rushing ability of McCoy and Williams. JMO Consider very very lucky if Williams holds onto that goalline role. Williams doesn't run to his larger size.
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Banger
Footballguy
career vs. career, Shady>>>>>DWill. The main talking point against McCoy being successful in KC was that he was old, just got cut and had lost a step coming off a 3.2 ypc last year. Yesterday with a week of work under his belt McCoy got as many touches and performed much better. McCoy and Reid have a good history, Reid likes using a primary back, McCoy looks like the much better back despite only knowing a handful of plays...this isn't that hard to figure out where it's going....
The X factor before the games started would be how much the team would give McCoy given his short time with the team and how he'd look if he got a couple touches and now both have been answered very positively in McCoy's favor. I'd be selling Williams for pennies on the dollar if I had him.
The X factor before the games started would be how much the team would give McCoy given his short time with the team and how he'd look if he got a couple touches and now both have been answered very positively in McCoy's favor. I'd be selling Williams for pennies on the dollar if I had him.
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Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
So there's a lot of discussion about McCoy/Williams in the DWilliams thread and one thing I've learned is that owners of x player tend to view x player a tad more favorably than maybe they actually should. What's the view of McCoy in the McCoy thread?
rockaction
Footballguy
The view from someone who has shares of both is that McCoy looked like the better RB and Williams is best suited for PPR and hoping he'll touch designed screens. The ultimate problem, though, is the thought that both will break down under duress, one because of age, one because he does.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I could see Hot Hand syndrome developing here. Ol’ Andy has a history of that once in KC.
rockaction
Footballguy
You're not wrong. Andy don't care about a bell cow when both backs are really quite good.
What a great, evocative term fantasy football and football has given us, hasn't it? Bell cow. Sort of like a Bell jar. But the image of a trotting bull jus' ringing in the yards is something fun to imagine.
rockaction
Footballguy
*Clang clang/clang clang*
Here come ol' Jessie clattering away. Give the bell cow the dang ball! Git 'er up!
Here come ol' Jessie clattering away. Give the bell cow the dang ball! Git 'er up!
-jb-
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Totes sober, nary a whiff of a snifter. But I'll let the thread get back to doing its Shady thing. Thank you for the indulgence.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I don't have a lot invested in MCCoy as my RB4 so I'm happy with the week one split and OK if that is how this RBBC turns out. Of course, I'm hopeful that Shady becomes the true 1a of the RBBC though.SaintsInDome2006 said:
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
McCoy... likely value where you got him but ultimately, a limited ceiling because even if dw got dinged McCoy is never getting a full load for more than a game. An rb1 situation but he will max out at an rb2SaintsInDome2006 said:
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Still do not understand this argument. I absolutely think Shady is capable of carrying a "full load" in this offense.
Banger
Footballguy
Not sure I understand this logic. McCoy has been a workhorse his entire career...yes, he's older but the defenses he's going to be facing he's likely never faced in his career. I heard the same exact reasoning last year early on with Adrian Peterson...he's done, old, can't handle the volume...he had a really strong season and if he were in the best offense in the NFL he would've been light years better. The key in the whole equation is red zone touches....the RB that gets them can score 1+ / week in this offense.
Banger
Footballguy
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
AP is one of the most talented backs in history and had less tread on the tires due to the kid beating thing
with that said, shady is a year older. How many backs at his age have had an RB1 season? How many have been a primary ball carrier. Top of my head, I’d guess CuMart and maybe emmitt Smith? It feels like historically more backs fall off.
Beyond all that, what would you do if you’re reid? Blow out your workhorse(in theory) before the playoffs or distribute touches? Which has been your predominant tendency.
I own shady, I’m still excited, I’m rooting for you guys to be right, ride him into the ground Andy but I’m just trying to have measured, tempered expectations
rockaction
Footballguy
I totally agree. I'd take fifteen touches a game or so for each back and let them be high floor guys that you can insert into a lineup.
bolldpt
Footballguy
What about Phoenix leagues? I don't play in Portland leagues but it is pretty up there
rockaction
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I do think it is a running back by competition right now. I do expect one of the RB to win the starters role eventually however because of Andys history.
I looked at most of this in my post here prior to the 2017 season.
Then looking at the last two seasons with Reid
2017 Kareem Hunt 272 rushing attempts 63 targets 53 receptions Charcandrick West 18 rushing attempts 34 targets 27 receptions (13 games)
2018 Kareem Hunt 181 rushing attempts 35 targets 26 receptions (11 games) Spencer Ware 51 rushing attempts 23 targets 23 20 receptions (13 games 47% of these were in the two games following Hunts release from the team) Damien Williams 50 rushing atempts 24 targets 23 receptions (16 games 98% of his opportunities were in the games after Hunt was released and Williams opportunities increased from 10 a game splitting with Ware to 16 per game after Ware was injured)
I think it is pretty clear that Reid prefers to have a featured RB provided the player is good enough to earn that role.
We know McCoy has been that guy for Reid before in the 2010 to 2012 seasons. We know that Damien Williams has never been that.
Damien Williams is a very good blocker and I expect him to maintain a role in the offense but this is shifting towards being McCoys job and WIlliams being the COP
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I don't think this will be a hot hand situation, but a shared committee situation. Reid knows McCoy's age and does not want a heavy load on him. He will want both backs strong and healthy for the playoffs, which IMHO means 20 touches a game for Shady is out of the question. I see both will get about 12-15 touches a game, and both will be in the RB2/ Flex range.
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