whodeywhodey
Footballguy
Glad I got in on Holmes way before all the hype started. He was a fantastic buy about 3-4 weeks ago. This is great news though. Can't wait to see how much they use him.
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Let the Santonio Holmes hype continue.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter whodeywhodey
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
Who will be returning kicks there?
E-A-G-L-E-S
Footballguy
They traded for Alan Rossum last week
Banger
Footballguy
I like Holmes and think he'll have a good year but I was very surprised to see how high he's risen recently on the FBG projections. A month or so ago he was in the late 20's and now he's in the late teens. I'm not sure what has changed recently for the 10+ spot swing but he's clearly getting to be an expensive option.
Steelnation
Footballguy
Holmes is going to explode this year
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Just a guess on my part, but it probably had at least something to do with the fact that he'd only wind up playing a couple series in the PS games, but he'd be targeted twice 30+ yards down the field.This ain't your father's Steelers' offense. If appears they want to challenge defenses deep with regularity. Remains to be seen if it'll work out how they hope, but Holmes would likely be the primary benificiary if it does.
jchapman70
Footballguy
HomerAs A Panther fan I could say that about Kerry Kolbert!
Steelnation
Footballguy
Come talk to me when it happensHomer or not, it is the TRUTH
TheCommish
Footballguy
However, as a Panther fan, you would be wrong, while the Steeler fan is on the money.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
High teens is too high for Holmes. Anything above mid 20-s and you're overpaying.
ScoobyDoo
Footballguy
With Ben in my QBBC and Holmes waiting on the bench to emerge, I have the best of both worlds.
dirtywaters20
Footballguy
Based on what? 1 preseason catch & run?
V1LL
Footballguy
sucks that i can be penalized 3 points for a fumble while he's a return man but not get credit for a TD while he's a return man.
Resident A
Footballguy
I like Holmes to emerge this year, but his hype has just gotten out of control. Everywhere I look, I see Holmes projected for 100 & score in week 1, and Hines Ward for 40 yards. What did Holmes do to make one of the game's best WRs an afterthought? Wasn't Plaxico supposed to push Ward aside when he came in as well? I need to see it before I jump on board.
I think Santonio will have decent overall numbers, but be very inconsistent. Much like Lee Evans in his 2nd year, he'll go off for 150 & 2TDs one game, then nothing for next 2 games. I project 60 rec, 800 yd, 6-7 TDs.
I am just not ready to annoint Big Ben, Ward, & Holmes as the next "greatest show on turf". The Steelers Passing game was not very good last year, and a change in scheme will not automatically translate to a top passing offense. They should be better for sure, but lets' face it- the Pitt offense will not be confused w/ the Saints.
I think Santonio will have decent overall numbers, but be very inconsistent. Much like Lee Evans in his 2nd year, he'll go off for 150 & 2TDs one game, then nothing for next 2 games. I project 60 rec, 800 yd, 6-7 TDs.
I am just not ready to annoint Big Ben, Ward, & Holmes as the next "greatest show on turf". The Steelers Passing game was not very good last year, and a change in scheme will not automatically translate to a top passing offense. They should be better for sure, but lets' face it- the Pitt offense will not be confused w/ the Saints.
whodeywhodey
Footballguy
Resident A
Footballguy
I think you have to attribute some of that to being behind so often early in the year & being forced to pass. You also neeed to consider how many times Big Ben threw TDs to the opposing team or gave them the ball in good position an the Steelers were in a hole. The Raiders game comes to mind.Don't get me wrong, I think they'll be good. I just understand why people are talking as if they are already an offensive powerhouse just because of a new offensive scheme before the season has even started. There have been numerous teams over the past several years that everyone hyped becuase they were "supposed to open it up this year" that just didn't pan out like expected.
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Cookiemonster
Footballguy
See my post in the Ben player spotlight. Arians, FWP, no chin, healthy Ben (who was lighting it up the last 1/2 of the season when he wasn't playing the Ravens), Holmes emergence, Wilson in his 2nd year in the O. So many factors pointing to the 'Burgh passing for some very good #s this year. That said, I don't see Ward being pushed aside quite so easily, but Holmes coming on strong enough to get everybody saying that he'll take over the #1 spot in '08. My biggest concern is the pass blocking. It's looked pretty shabby in the preseason.Resident A-Hole said:
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corpcow
Footballguy
Not a homer but I agree. Hey very quietly put up almost 900 yards as a rookie and was especially good towards the end of the year. I've targeted him in almost every league I'm in and managed to score him (after the 7-8th round) in probably half of my 15 teamsjchapman70 said:
Nigel Tufnel
Footballguy
Black dot.
Banger
Footballguy
We, the fantasy community, always put the established vet's out to pasture way before their actual teams do. Ward is the #1 wr on that offense until I actually see otherwise.
dirtywaters20
Footballguy
You're projecting him for the same yardage as last year? He didn't even start every game last year and was almost a ghost the first month of the season.Resident A-Hole said:
corpcow
Footballguy
Holmes had 49 receptions for 824 yds and 2 TDs last year. That's 16.8 ypc, and now we have reports that they'll be opening things up and going deeper. Ben is healthy, Holmes has a year under his belt after a slow start.If he has 60 receptions, I think his yardage totals are much higher than that.From week 6 on, he averaged 3.5 receptions and 62.6 yds (17.9 YPC). (This included with 2 games against Baltimore, 1 against Oak and Denver, etc). Over the last 4 games of the season, Holmes averaged 4 receptions for 80 yards (20 YPC) and 0.25 TDs. (This included a game against Baltimore).By the way, over the last 3 games (he was injured weeks 13/14), Ward averaged 5.6 receptions for 63yds and didn't score.Resident A-Hole said:
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TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I'll add with a caveat - "Unless they've been superstars in the past. Then we'll draft them even if they retire like Barry Sanders".Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
They're not. Holmes will have a big year but Ward will do better this year.
corpcow
Footballguy
The successful teams are a mix of the twoI'll add with a caveat - "Unless they've been superstars in the past. Then we'll draft them even if they retire like Barry Sanders".
Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
Illegal Pants Downfield
Footballguy
Agreed - sometimes it's hard to pass up the big potential guy (a young guy like Holmes) for the solid vet (like Ward)...I think the best fantasy teams find a way to balance those two - take their shots on a couple of boom/bust guys, while building out a safety net of proven commodities.The successful teams are a mix of the two
Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
corpcow
Footballguy
I already talked about how they finished the season - even if we look at the whole season, Ward barely outperformed Holmes last year. In 14 games, Ward caught 74/975/6 (avg 5/70/0.4) In 16, Holmes caught 49/824/2 (average: 3/52/0.125).The difference is not nearly as clear-cut as people are making it out to be. Plus, we expect improvement from Holmes in his second year whereas Ward pretty much peaked statistically in 2002. Ward was WR22 last year.Ward may well be the better WR (blocking etc), but Holmes is the better playmaker. He put up reasonably similar numbers to Ward where his upside potential becomes the swing factor in his favor. (Not to mention I've never seen Ward last past Holmes in any draft this year. If the ADP was reversed, I would agree that it's maybe not time yet).Driver is not a fair comparison either. Driver was top 5 last year and in the top 15 four out of the past 5 years. Ward was WR3 in 2002 and WR6 in 2003. Before that, he never finished higher than WR29 and he's been out of the top 20 except for a WR10 finish during their Super Bowl run (buoyed mostly by his 11 TDs - otherwise his receptions and yards were both down from previous years).
Ilov80s
Footballguy
The successful teams are the ones that draft the undervalued vets that stay consistent and the upside guys who pan out. The cellar dwellers are the teams that get the has-beens and never will-bes. In 06 think Coles, Deuce, Gore vs. Jamal Lewis, Joe Horn and DeAngelo Williams. One side hit big and the other flopped bad.The successful teams are a mix of the two
Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
We're probably arguing the same point. If you can get Holmes 4 rounds later, I have no doubt he's a better value. But some in this thread are saying that Holmes is now in the high teens and I've seen Ward go in the high teens, and I think in one of my work drafts in VBD he was in the low 20s. People also saying that Holmes is now the #1. Don't buy it.I'm well aware of Holmes playmaking ability, and I'm a huge fan of the guy. I just think Ward's coming off of a bad year and will rebound. Ward: 88/1150/10Holmes: 64/1030/8
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
Why do you expect his YPC to drop by 3 and half yards this year?Resident A-Hole said:
In other words you're saying that successful teams are thw ones that correctly predict which vets are has beens vs which vets still produce and which guys with upside pan out vs which ones dont. Brilliant.The successful teams are the ones that draft the undervalued vets that stay consistent and the upside guys who pan out. The cellar dwellers are the teams that get the has-beens and never will-bes. In 06 think Coles, Deuce, Gore vs. Jamal Lewis, Joe Horn and DeAngelo Williams. One side hit big and the other flopped bad.The successful teams are a mix of the two
Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
Brides Maids
Footballguy
So if this is true what does it mean for Cedric Wilson?
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
nothing at all IMO. A marginal WR4 at best. 31 / 415 / 1
nygiants56
Footballguy
the thinking goes that Ward is aging and slowing down, and Holmes is young,fast,and on the rise. Thats probably where all the hype comes from.he catches a lot of deep passes..that's another reason to like him..Resident A-Hole said:
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BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
and you wouldn't look very smart in the process.jchapman70 said:
BeaverCleaver
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Just saying having a roster balanced with upside and undervalued vets isn't always a path to success...it can just as easily be a the road to the cellar. There is not one way to build a successful team.In other words you're saying that successful teams are thw ones that correctly predict which vets are has beens vs which vets still produce and which guys with upside pan out vs which ones dont. Brilliant.The successful teams are the ones that draft the undervalued vets that stay consistent and the upside guys who pan out. The cellar dwellers are the teams that get the has-beens and never will-bes. In 06 think Coles, Deuce, Gore vs. Jamal Lewis, Joe Horn and DeAngelo Williams. One side hit big and the other flopped bad.The successful teams are a mix of the two
Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
One thing's for sure, I wish teams would stop drafting vets so all the rookies in the draft could get drafted instead.Just saying having a roster balanced with upside and undervalued vets isn't always a path to success...it can just as easily be a the road to the cellar. There is not one way to build a successful team.In other words you're saying that successful teams are thw ones that correctly predict which vets are has beens vs which vets still produce and which guys with upside pan out vs which ones dont. Brilliant.The successful teams are the ones that draft the undervalued vets that stay consistent and the upside guys who pan out. The cellar dwellers are the teams that get the has-beens and never will-bes. In 06 think Coles, Deuce, Gore vs. Jamal Lewis, Joe Horn and DeAngelo Williams. One side hit big and the other flopped bad.The successful teams are a mix of the two
Seriously though, to me drafting aging vets IMO is the surest way to being competitive because they don't get the respect and thus they slide in drafts. I picked up Donald Driver in Round 5 after a run of WR's that were not nearly as accomplished but possessed better 'breakout factors'. I even got kidded for having the AARP team after awhile, but at the end of the day, you know what you are going to get.
mizeners
Footballguy
I'm interested in how you guys think Holmes will perform Week 2. Ben looked great, actually the whol team looked great. But they were playing the Browns. Buffalo will be a tougher matchup, but there D is banged up. Who will match up with Holmes and how do you think he will be used in this game? Will they pound the ball or can we expect Ben to air it out again? Thoughts??
Peter_Griffin
Footballguy
Hines is still the go to guy but Holmes will definitely get his share and has the potential for a few big plays. The Steelers have a lot of weapons on offense though so it's hard to predict a big game for any of their WRs. AFter the way Travis Henry torched the Bills run D last week, I expect big things out of Parker this week so Holmes may not be doing much more than blocking in the second half. By the way, I'm a Steelers homer so take that for whatever it's worth.
Skinsfansince72
Footballguy
THe Bills D was torched on the ground and through the air. Why should anything change this week? Start your Steelers.
schooner44
Footballguy
They were only torched through the air after all their injuries. This week they will start the game with a backup FS, backup CB and 3rd string LB. I'm a Bills home and I my money league lineup has FWP, Big Ben and Holmes in it.Skinsfansince72 said:
