Let's discuss the "out of line" rankings of our FBG' (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

At the risk of ticking off some of the FBG’s, I think it is appropriate to find out what was behind the thinking of some of what I thought to be the oddest or most off base rankings from the FBG staff. This is my opinion, but it does have some backing, as most of these are very different from the rest of the FBG staff as well.

I know Lhucks and some others give their rankings and then high five the staff closest to them. I will treat this post as the top 3 rankings that I see are way out of line by position. I want to point out that I recognize that just because a guy has never finished #1 in the end of season rankings it is reasonable to project him as your #1 guy because he is always in the top 3. Ladanian comes to mind.

QB’s – I wouldn’t question someone like Palmer because he could miss a few games.

1. David Shick – Aaron Brooks at 23rd! C’mon, here is a guy who finished 18th last year when the year was complete chaos. The prior FOUR years Brooks was ranked 6-10th. Now he has Randy Moss and good other receivers (even if Porter is gone and he will be worse than last year??? I think this is way off base. Shick you have some splaining to do! Lammey at 19, Pasquino and Hicks at 18 aren’t excused either.

2. Mike Brown – McNabb ranked 13 when the next highest ranking is 6. To have McNabb ranked out of the top 7 doesn’t make any sense to me now that he is healthy.

3. Cecil Lammey – Bledsoe ranked 20th! Pasquino and Brown had him at 17th as well. This is too high. Bledsoe was 10th in my league in scoring last year and now he has TO. I don’t see how Bledsoe can do much worse than 10th?

RB’s Found myself less critical here

1. Mark Wimer - McGahee ranked 20! I know Buffalo may be real poor, but Mcgahee is the man there and he has uber talent. Last year Willis ranked about as low as he possibly could, without getting injured, and ranked 14th. He scored only 5 times in 325 carries. With no threats to steal TD’s he is “assured” of beating 14 in my book. Interestingly, not one staff member had Willis higher than 12th.

2. Maurile Tremblay – Caddy at 16! I can only think that he is predicting injury here?

3. Cecil Lammey – Edge ranked 4th. Not that absurd, but I am doing a top 3. Going to Arizona will not be as easy in my mind for Edge. If we say the receivers are equal I do not believe the QB’s are too close and Edge had the defenses focused on stopping Manning, not Edge. This isn’t as far off as the 1st two, but I think it is too high.

WR’s – This was tougher to pick my top 3 so I chose two FBG guys and picked out a few of their mistakes

1. Mark Wimer – I guess my ranking just differ, but I struggled with Santana Moss ranked 28th (next highest FBG rank was 16), Mushin Muhammad 45th after finishing last year missing 2 games and playing with Kyle Orton (the 1 game with Grossman has 11.8 points), and Reggie Brown ranked 48th. I don’t see how Reggie Brown doesn’t do much better than that in what is still a throwing offense. The average ranking of FBG was 32.

2. David Shick – Chad Johnson at 10. Ok this may have to do with Palmer, but outside of CJ’s big mouth the guy wants to be great and works hard at it. He is a force. Shick has Darrell Jackson at 4; perhaps we could swap them and I would be happier?

TE’s

1. Jeff Pasquino – Todd Heap finished 1st, 3rd and 3rd in the last 3 seasons he was healthy. He now has a real QB throwing to him and Jeff has him ranked 11th? The average FBG ranking is 4.2.

2. Mike Brown – Jerramy Stevens ranked 23rd. There may be more targets for Hasselbeck this year, but Stevens is a big part of that offense and he was ranked 10th last year. It is possible he drops from last year, but high teens are as high as he should be ranked.

3. Maurile Tremblay – Marcus Pollard ranked 11th. With all the TE’s that one can choose, I find having Pollard ranked in the top 20 hard enough.

Defense

1. Cecil Lammey – This is THE most head scratching ranking of out of any. Award winner! How can The Bears be ranked outside of the top 3, let alone ranked 21st? Yes Twenty-First! Is that a misprint? The Bears should be better this year??? Cec, are you a Packer fan? Honorable mention that Lammey also has the Pats ranked 3rd when the staff average is 14

2. David and Joe – Your choice of Seattle at 24 is very surprising to me. I think Seattle is improved this year, however the views vary like crazy on Seattle as Lammey and Tremblay have them 22 and 20 respectively while Aaron Rudnicki and John Norton have them at 4! David and Joe also get bad press for their ranking of the Arizona defense at 6. For those of you using the Draft Dominator, you better change that ranking

3. Chris Smith – Atlanta ranked 23rd. This one is a little more my own opinion. It appears to be shared by Jene Bramel and Rudnicki in having the Atlanta Falcons ranked 5th. Not sure if I have them that high, but adding Abraham will bring more sacks to this unit. While they will struggle stopping the run, they could blitz a lot more which in turn should slow the run and also help get after the QB. This unit could be a high scoring defense.

Well, I hope this wasn’t too critical and maybe was helpful to some? I should also note that just because someone is against the grain they should not be criticized, what we should do is find out why. I would be interested in the thought process behind some of the rankings I questioned. let’r’fly!

Enjoy,

Liquid Tension

Corrected to change the high picking of Pollard from Tremblay to Lammey

 

[Real Man of Genius]

2. Maurile Tremblay – Caddy at 16! I can only think that he is predicting injury here?

Caddy was RB21 in my league last year (PPR), with only 3 of his final 11 games over 11 points. I don't think RB16 is a stretch at all.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Hi LT,

The rankings are pay content now. I'll let some of these guys answer but let's please keep the pay content mostly separate from the message boards.

Thanks.

J

 

[Liquid Tension]

Hi LT,The rankings are pay content now. I'll let some of these guys answer but let's please keep the pay content mostly separate from the message boards.Thanks.J

My apologies Joe. I guess you could say that not too much is given out here though? I guess this also come back to the discussion of keeping the boards for the paying customers only (No need to answer this as you gave good reasons to keep it free to all)

 

[Liquid Tension]

2. Maurile Tremblay – Caddy at 16! I can only think that he is predicting injury here?

Caddy was RB21 in my league last year (PPR), with only 3 of his final 11 games over 11 points. I don't think RB16 is a stretch at all.

Ok, fair point that in a PPR league his ranking would be less, but the ranking are not put forth with that in mind. In your league I guess he loses about 20 points for the ppr, but it is hard not to rank him in the top 10 unless you are predicting injury. caddy basically had 6 lost games. I think looking at the games from week 11 on is reasonable. That is 15.5 points a game with a point per reception and that should get you into the top 10.

 

[Homey]

Hi LT,The rankings are pay content now. I'll let some of these guys answer but let's please keep the pay content mostly separate from the message boards.Thanks.J

Did the rankings go pay content earlier this season than in years past?

 

[PahtyTom]

I'm going to take a look at all the most updated rankings again today, but Heap and Pollard are the two most out of line rankings stated above in my mind. How could Pollard be 11? He's never been that productive, and now Martz is in town and he doesn't use the tight end much anyway. Marcus could be invisible this year.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

3. Maurile Tremblay – Marcus Pollard ranked 11th. With all the TE’s that one can choose, I find having Pollard ranked in the top 20 hard enough.

Where are you seeing this? I don't think I've ever had him ranked 11th.

 

[s_ezy]

3. Maurile Tremblay – Marcus Pollard ranked 11th. With all the TE’s that one can choose, I find having Pollard ranked in the top 20 hard enough.

Where are you seeing this? I don't think I've ever had him ranked 11th.

think he got the names messed upits cecil that has him ranked 11th

 

[imeimex]

Cecil Lammey knows his defense. I'm interested as to what he has to say about the Bears defense. They have a relatively easy schedule this year, return all their starters, and used 5 draft picks to improve the defense. What are your thoughts Cecil?

 

[onthevirg]

Bump.

I'd also like to hear why Cecil thinks the Bears will finish 21st.

 

[Gr00vus]

David and Joe also get bad press for their ranking of the Arizona defense at 6. For those of you using the Draft Dominator, you better change that ranking

To put it simply - they're much closer to being right about this one than you. You may want to reexamine what you think you know about that defense. If you approach it with an open mind, you may find youself with a different opinion. They were already highly ranked in terms of not giving up yardage, with many significant injuries last year. This year, if they can avoid the same catastrophic level of injuries and get some more help from their own running game (which they should), you'll see them in the top ten overall at season's end, 6 is not unreasonable at all.

 

[kal-el]

2. Maurile Tremblay – Caddy at 16! I can only think that he is predicting injury here?

Caddy was RB21 in my league last year (PPR), with only 3 of his final 11 games over 11 points. I don't think RB16 is a stretch at all.

Ok, fair point that in a PPR league his ranking would be less, but the ranking are not put forth with that in mind. In your league I guess he loses about 20 points for the ppr, but it is hard not to rank him in the top 10 unless you are predicting injury. caddy basically had 6 lost games. I think looking at the games from week 11 on is reasonable. That is 15.5 points a game with a point per reception and that should get you into the top 10.

I haven't seen the discussion/rationale for keeping the boards free, but I would like to say that it would be great to have a section of the boards for subscribers only. At this point in the year (just before drafts), the threads about whether a particular guy is a "stud" or "sucks" aren't very helpful. We're generally concerned about fairly minor differences in rankings. The only way to have a coherent discussion is to use some sort of baseline. And IMO the best baseline is the FBG rankings.Just my 2 cents.

Edit: quotes wrong post, but you get the point.

 

[Cecil Lammey]

Cecil Lammey knows his defense. I'm interested as to what he has to say about the Bears defense. They have a relatively easy schedule this year, return all their starters, and used 5 draft picks to improve the defense. What are your thoughts Cecil?

Bump.I'd also like to hear why Cecil thinks the Bears will finish 21st.

LT - no, not a Packers fan all the way baby!I have moved the Bears defense up to 14. Was 21 too low, probably. But I am just not sold on that offense. I see the defense being on the field way too much, overall affecting their play. I also think guys like Nathan Vasher (who I REALLY like) are in for a down year.

 

[Liquid Tension]

David and Joe also get bad press for their ranking of the Arizona defense at 6. For those of you using the Draft Dominator, you better change that ranking

To put it simply - they're much closer to being right about this one than you. You may want to reexamine what you think you know about that defense. If you approach it with an open mind, you may find youself with a different opinion. They were already highly ranked in terms of not giving up yardage, with many significant injuries last year. This year, if they can avoid the same catastrophic level of injuries and get some more help from their own running game (which they should), you'll see them in the top ten overall at season's end, 6 is not unreasonable at all.

I understand that but I still don't see such a jump for them. If this is true we should see Arizona in the Championship game and I just don't see it. Yes, they had injuries, but I don't see them improving from around 20 to almost in the top 5? Could it happen, sure to anyone, but i don't see the talent level you guys do. if you said around 12th I could live it with it, but I stick to my guns that 6 is way too high. The average of every other member was 21st!

 

[Liquid Tension]

3. Maurile Tremblay – Marcus Pollard ranked 11th. With all the TE’s that one can choose, I find having Pollard ranked in the top 20 hard enough.

Where are you seeing this? I don't think I've ever had him ranked 11th.

My sincere apologies. I would never intentionally do this to anyone. I will correct it in the original post. Lammey has explained the Bears, although I can't see their offense getting worse than last year so a drop to 14th (from 1st) would be monumental to me, now he must explain Pollard.

 

[MLBrandow]

The only head-scratchers I see here are DJax at 4 and Brooks at 23

 

[Kleck]

1. David Shick – Aaron Brooks at 23rd! C’mon, here is a guy who finished 18th last year when the year was complete chaos. The prior FOUR years Brooks was ranked 6-10th. Now he has Randy Moss and good other receivers (even if Porter is gone and he will be worse than last year??? I think this is way off base. Shick you have some splaining to do! Lammey at 19, Pasquino and Hicks at 18 aren’t excused either.

Splaining? I think Aaron Brooks is as far removed from being a leader as he can be. Being a quarterback in the NFL a lot to do with standing in the huddle and exuding confidence. I won't ever believe that Brooks is that guy. Further, I think the Raiders are in for a tremendous fall and I expect them to be first in line at the 2007 draft. If this happens I doubt we'll see Brooks make it through the season as the starter. I think both Tuiasosopo and Walters have shown they'll fight for a chance to start. After the season is officially in the toilet they may get their chance. Rankings for me aren't strictly based on statistics, they're based on confidence. Theres 22 other quarterbacks that I have more confidence in. Yes, if Brooks makes it through the whole season I expect him to finish higher than QB23. Time will tell.

WR’s – This was tougher to pick my top 3 so I chose two FBG guys and picked out a few of their mistakes

2. David Shick – Chad Johnson at 10. Ok this may have to do with Palmer, but outside of CJ’s big mouth the guy wants to be great and works hard at it. He is a force. Shick has Darrell Jackson at 4; perhaps we could swap them and I would be happier?

This is entirely related to the Palmer injury. I had Johnson as my WR1 last season, and I don't doubt he has the heart and desire to be WR1 this coming season. I expect this ranking to change as we see positives from Palmer. Eight months removed from the injury is not very long. Gernally conventional wisdom says it should be eighteen months before we talk about being back to full speed. The reports we saw yesterday were encouraging and Palmer seemed to move well in his drills. However, the real tell-tale with regard to that is how he's doing during the following couple of days.I have tons of confidence in Jackson returning to full speed. The "clean up" procedure he went thorugh during the off-season was a follow up, not a new injury. He played throughout the playoffs and looked awesome. Surprises me that more didn't notice he missed a significant portion of the season and stepped right back into games at full speed. In fact, he was on a tear. 15-218-2 in Seattle's first two playoff games. Hasselbeck was radar locked into him. In essence, I don't think Jackson returning from this procedure is a big deal. It was a bigger deal a year ago when he came back for the playoffs and look how he produced then.

Thanks for the questions. Hopefully I was able to splain myself. If not, don't hesitate to hit me with it again for more clarification.

 

[Liquid Tension]

1. David Shick – Aaron Brooks at 23rd! C’mon, here is a guy who finished 18th last year when the year was complete chaos. The prior FOUR years Brooks was ranked 6-10th. Now he has Randy Moss and good other receivers (even if Porter is gone and he will be worse than last year??? I think this is way off base. Shick you have some splaining to do! Lammey at 19, Pasquino and Hicks at 18 aren’t excused either.

Splaining? I think Aaron Brooks is as far removed from being a leader as he can be. Being a quarterback in the NFL a lot to do with standing in the huddle and exuding confidence. I won't ever believe that Brooks is that guy. Further, I think the Raiders are in for a tremendous fall and I expect them to be first in line at the 2007 draft. If this happens I doubt we'll see Brooks make it through the season as the starter. I think both Tuiasosopo and Walters have shown they'll fight for a chance to start. After the season is officially in the toilet they may get their chance. Rankings for me aren't strictly based on statistics, they're based on confidence. Theres 22 other quarterbacks that I have more confidence in. Yes, if Brooks makes it through the whole season I expect him to finish higher than QB23. Time will tell.

WR’s – This was tougher to pick my top 3 so I chose two FBG guys and picked out a few of their mistakes

2. David Shick – Chad Johnson at 10. Ok this may have to do with Palmer, but outside of CJ’s big mouth the guy wants to be great and works hard at it. He is a force. Shick has Darrell Jackson at 4; perhaps we could swap them and I would be happier?

This is entirely related to the Palmer injury. I had Johnson as my WR1 last season, and I don't doubt he has the heart and desire to be WR1 this coming season. I expect this ranking to change as we see positives from Palmer. Eight months removed from the injury is not very long. Gernally conventional wisdom says it should be eighteen months before we talk about being back to full speed. The reports we saw yesterday were encouraging and Palmer seemed to move well in his drills. However, the real tell-tale with regard to that is how he's doing during the following couple of days.I have tons of confidence in Jackson returning to full speed. The "clean up" procedure he went thorugh during the off-season was a follow up, not a new injury. He played throughout the playoffs and looked awesome. Surprises me that more didn't notice he missed a significant portion of the season and stepped right back into games at full speed. In fact, he was on a tear. 15-218-2 in Seattle's first two playoff games. Hasselbeck was radar locked into him. In essence, I don't think Jackson returning from this procedure is a big deal. It was a bigger deal a year ago when he came back for the playoffs and look how he produced then.

Thanks for the questions. Hopefully I was able to splain myself. If not, don't hesitate to hit me with it again for more clarification.

Thanks Shick and the splaining was the old I love Lucy where the quote, "Lucy you have some splaining to do"... come fromYour explanations have backing so the rest is just opinion, but one thing that would make sense is for FBG to rate based on points per game expected when they play rather than the year long projections. I say this because you subtract from Palmer because you don't expect him ready for the first few games. You expect Brooks to only play 10 games until they hand it off to a young gun? Not saying that couldn't happen, but it throws off the rankings. Brooks is very underrated when it comes to fantasy football. I also think that he is still a guy who could grow as he was on a lousy team with sub par coaches in my estimation. One point, I would caution as well; you mention that Oakland is due for a fall? they were 4-12 last year and that was with Moss gimpy all year. Brooks is an upgrade from Collins and they have some young lineman. I am not an Oakland fan, but I would be surprised if they win less than 4 games.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The only head-scratchers I see here are DJax at 4 and Brooks at 23

So the top defense from last year falling to 21st with a better offense isn't a headscratcher?

 

[Gr00vus]

David and Joe also get bad press for their ranking of the Arizona defense at 6. For those of you using the Draft Dominator, you better change that ranking

To put it simply - they're much closer to being right about this one than you. You may want to reexamine what you think you know about that defense. If you approach it with an open mind, you may find youself with a different opinion. They were already highly ranked in terms of not giving up yardage, with many significant injuries last year. This year, if they can avoid the same catastrophic level of injuries and get some more help from their own running game (which they should), you'll see them in the top ten overall at season's end, 6 is not unreasonable at all.

I understand that but I still don't see such a jump for them. If this is true we should see Arizona in the Championship game and I just don't see it. Yes, they had injuries, but I don't see them improving from around 20 to almost in the top 5? Could it happen, sure to anyone, but i don't see the talent level you guys do. if you said around 12th I could live it with it, but I stick to my guns that 6 is way too high. The average of every other member was 21st!

Well it depends on what you mean by "such a jump." Last year the ranked 8th in total defense (ypg), so moving up to 6th from there isn't that big a jump. They were 27th in scoring against last year giving up 46 tds (tied for 27th) and 21 fgs (11th best). Lets look at how the tds break down: 22 rush (tie for 30th), 17 pass (tie for 6th), 1 punt r, 3 k r (three other teams gave up 4), 1 int r, 2 fumble r (one team gave up 3).So first off it looks like they gave up an inordinate amount of tds outside the scope of the actual defense, maybe an extra 3 or four that way than average. Those kinds of things aren't predictable or consistent from year to year - I'd guess there'd be fewer of these this season.

Secondly looking at the rushing touchdown numbers, I think that could be very easily attributable to the injuries they experienced last year. Referencing this article from cardinals.scout.com of Aug 8, 2006 you'll note that:

The Cardinals went to training camp in 2005 believing their defensive line was loaded with good front-line quality and excellent depth.

And then by Week 17, they were thankful to see a five-win season close mercifully while playing helpless civilians along the defensive front.

By then, end Bertrand Berry and tackles Russell Davis, Kenny King and Langston Moore were on Injured Reserve and end Calvin Pace was on the Non-Football Injury Reserve. It wasn't pretty, yet the Cardinals still managed to finish eighth in the league in total defense.

So with everyone healthy and back on the field, along with newcomers Kendrick Clancy and Gabe Watson inside, the Cardinals opened camp with renewed optimism about the quality and depth of their defensive line -- so convinced they have a load of players who can be relied upon that they planned to use a liberal rotation.

Those plans took their first hit by mid-week when King, who was alternating at end and tackle, suffered a fractured hand that will not require surgery but will sideline him for four to six weeks

That is after King, who was a starting tackle in camp in 2004, lost each of the last two seasons to wrist injuries, opening the door for Darnell Dockett to take over the position.

Dockett and end Chike Okeafor managed to play in all 16 games in 2005, but they had little backup support and it took a toll.

The Cardinals are lining up now with Berry, a 2004 Pro Bowler, and Okeafor at the ends with Clancy and Dockett inside.

Antonio Smith has emerged as a reliable backup end. Pace was moved to weak-side linebacker, where he is working with the first unit while Karlos Dansby recovers from thumb surgery, but Pace is expected to be available for backup duty at end, as well.

"Any time you can eliminate 15 to 20 plays off of a guy in a 65- or 70-play game, that's huge," defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast said.

Rookie tackles Watson and Jonathan Lewis are expected to see duty inside, as well, as are veterans Moore and Tim Bulman.

"If we can have guys come in and spell us every so often, that only keeps us that much more energized and that much more able to fly around and make plays," Berry said. "If you go back to 2004, Calvin Pace was one of the biggest reasons I had the year that I had (14 sacks). He was able to spell me at times during games and I was able to stay fresh.

"You look at teams with the great defenses, they usually can rotate seven, eight defensive linemen in."

I'd like to think that if they can keep their front 7 healthy you'll see a big change in the number of rushing touchdowns given up from last season, and probably less td's overall as they'll be able to be more effective pass rushing as well.Thirdly, as mentioned before, if (as I think likely) the addition of James allows the Cardinal offense to have longer more sustained drives it will keep the defense off the field, fresher and more effective, which will enhance their performance. The Cardinals were last in every single rushing category last year - by huge margins in some of them. As we all know an effective rushing game is a defense's best friend - I think the Cardinals can get back at least to where they were when they had Emmitt Smith with the addition of James, which should really help the defense.

I don't think the "If this is true we should see Arizona in the Championship game" holds much water though - the Bears were #1 last year on D and they weren't anywhere near a championship. But if things play out as above, they could be a playoff team.

Sleep on them at your leisure, but don't be surprised if Dave and Joe end up being right about this one.

 

[Liquid Tension]

David and Joe also get bad press for their ranking of the Arizona defense at 6. For those of you using the Draft Dominator, you better change that ranking

To put it simply - they're much closer to being right about this one than you. You may want to reexamine what you think you know about that defense. If you approach it with an open mind, you may find youself with a different opinion. They were already highly ranked in terms of not giving up yardage, with many significant injuries last year. This year, if they can avoid the same catastrophic level of injuries and get some more help from their own running game (which they should), you'll see them in the top ten overall at season's end, 6 is not unreasonable at all.

I understand that but I still don't see such a jump for them. If this is true we should see Arizona in the Championship game and I just don't see it. Yes, they had injuries, but I don't see them improving from around 20 to almost in the top 5? Could it happen, sure to anyone, but i don't see the talent level you guys do. if you said around 12th I could live it with it, but I stick to my guns that 6 is way too high. The average of every other member was 21st!

Well it depends on what you mean by "such a jump." Last year the ranked 8th in total defense (ypg), so moving up to 6th from there isn't that big a jump. They were 27th in scoring against last year giving up 46 tds (tied for 27th) and 21 fgs (11th best). Lets look at how the tds break down: 22 rush (tie for 30th), 17 pass (tie for 6th), 1 punt r, 3 k r (three other teams gave up 4), 1 int r, 2 fumble r (one team gave up 3).So first off it looks like they gave up an inordinate amount of tds outside the scope of the actual defense, maybe an extra 3 or four that way than average. Those kinds of things aren't predictable or consistent from year to year - I'd guess there'd be fewer of these this season.

Secondly looking at the rushing touchdown numbers, I think that could be very easily attributable to the injuries they experienced last year. Referencing this article from cardinals.scout.com of Aug 8, 2006 you'll note that:

The Cardinals went to training camp in 2005 believing their defensive line was loaded with good front-line quality and excellent depth.

And then by Week 17, they were thankful to see a five-win season close mercifully while playing helpless civilians along the defensive front.

By then, end Bertrand Berry and tackles Russell Davis, Kenny King and Langston Moore were on Injured Reserve and end Calvin Pace was on the Non-Football Injury Reserve. It wasn't pretty, yet the Cardinals still managed to finish eighth in the league in total defense.

So with everyone healthy and back on the field, along with newcomers Kendrick Clancy and Gabe Watson inside, the Cardinals opened camp with renewed optimism about the quality and depth of their defensive line -- so convinced they have a load of players who can be relied upon that they planned to use a liberal rotation.

Those plans took their first hit by mid-week when King, who was alternating at end and tackle, suffered a fractured hand that will not require surgery but will sideline him for four to six weeks

That is after King, who was a starting tackle in camp in 2004, lost each of the last two seasons to wrist injuries, opening the door for Darnell Dockett to take over the position.

Dockett and end Chike Okeafor managed to play in all 16 games in 2005, but they had little backup support and it took a toll.

The Cardinals are lining up now with Berry, a 2004 Pro Bowler, and Okeafor at the ends with Clancy and Dockett inside.

Antonio Smith has emerged as a reliable backup end. Pace was moved to weak-side linebacker, where he is working with the first unit while Karlos Dansby recovers from thumb surgery, but Pace is expected to be available for backup duty at end, as well.

"Any time you can eliminate 15 to 20 plays off of a guy in a 65- or 70-play game, that's huge," defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast said.

Rookie tackles Watson and Jonathan Lewis are expected to see duty inside, as well, as are veterans Moore and Tim Bulman.

"If we can have guys come in and spell us every so often, that only keeps us that much more energized and that much more able to fly around and make plays," Berry said. "If you go back to 2004, Calvin Pace was one of the biggest reasons I had the year that I had (14 sacks). He was able to spell me at times during games and I was able to stay fresh.

"You look at teams with the great defenses, they usually can rotate seven, eight defensive linemen in."

I'd like to think that if they can keep their front 7 healthy you'll see a big change in the number of rushing touchdowns given up from last season, and probably less td's overall as they'll be able to be more effective pass rushing as well.Thirdly, as mentioned before, if (as I think likely) the addition of James allows the Cardinal offense to have longer more sustained drives it will keep the defense off the field, fresher and more effective, which will enhance their performance. The Cardinals were last in every single rushing category last year - by huge margins in some of them. As we all know an effective rushing game is a defense's best friend - I think the Cardinals can get back at least to where they were when they had Emmitt Smith with the addition of James, which should really help the defense.

Sleep on them at your leisure, but don't be surprised if Dave and Joe end up being right about this one.

Good comeback! I love a good front 7. However, you are assuming they come back healthy. I agree about the TD's, but in football (more so than baseball) the stats are not as reliable in that while you are correct the TD's shouldn't be as high, it is possible teams were in the lead so much that they were vanilla running the ball because they didn't need to get more yards in bunches. I have them in one of my leagues and their schedule is pretty nice as well (you should have used that), but I still don't see that much of a jump IN FANTASY POINTS. That being said, maybe all the others and myself should give them more respect.

 

[Acme CEO]

I have moved the Bears defense up to 14. Was 21 too low, probably. But I am just not sold on that offense. I see the defense being on the field way too much, overall affecting their play. I also think guys like Nathan Vasher (who I REALLY like) are in for a down year.

I don't get this reasoning. The Bears O was pretty bad last year. I don't expect them to be worse with Grossman returning and Griese available. And how does one predict a 'down year' for a player?

 

[Liquid Tension]

David and Joe also get bad press for their ranking of the Arizona defense at 6. For those of you using the Draft Dominator, you better change that ranking

To put it simply - they're much closer to being right about this one than you. You may want to reexamine what you think you know about that defense. If you approach it with an open mind, you may find youself with a different opinion. They were already highly ranked in terms of not giving up yardage, with many significant injuries last year. This year, if they can avoid the same catastrophic level of injuries and get some more help from their own running game (which they should), you'll see them in the top ten overall at season's end, 6 is not unreasonable at all.

I understand that but I still don't see such a jump for them. If this is true we should see Arizona in the Championship game and I just don't see it. Yes, they had injuries, but I don't see them improving from around 20 to almost in the top 5? Could it happen, sure to anyone, but i don't see the talent level you guys do. if you said around 12th I could live it with it, but I stick to my guns that 6 is way too high. The average of every other member was 21st!

Well it depends on what you mean by "such a jump." Last year the ranked 8th in total defense (ypg), so moving up to 6th from there isn't that big a jump. They were 27th in scoring against last year giving up 46 tds (tied for 27th) and 21 fgs (11th best). Lets look at how the tds break down: 22 rush (tie for 30th), 17 pass (tie for 6th), 1 punt r, 3 k r (three other teams gave up 4), 1 int r, 2 fumble r (one team gave up 3).So first off it looks like they gave up an inordinate amount of tds outside the scope of the actual defense, maybe an extra 3 or four that way than average. Those kinds of things aren't predictable or consistent from year to year - I'd guess there'd be fewer of these this season.

Secondly looking at the rushing touchdown numbers, I think that could be very easily attributable to the injuries they experienced last year. Referencing this article from cardinals.scout.com of Aug 8, 2006 you'll note that:

The Cardinals went to training camp in 2005 believing their defensive line was loaded with good front-line quality and excellent depth.

And then by Week 17, they were thankful to see a five-win season close mercifully while playing helpless civilians along the defensive front.

By then, end Bertrand Berry and tackles Russell Davis, Kenny King and Langston Moore were on Injured Reserve and end Calvin Pace was on the Non-Football Injury Reserve. It wasn't pretty, yet the Cardinals still managed to finish eighth in the league in total defense.

So with everyone healthy and back on the field, along with newcomers Kendrick Clancy and Gabe Watson inside, the Cardinals opened camp with renewed optimism about the quality and depth of their defensive line -- so convinced they have a load of players who can be relied upon that they planned to use a liberal rotation.

Those plans took their first hit by mid-week when King, who was alternating at end and tackle, suffered a fractured hand that will not require surgery but will sideline him for four to six weeks

That is after King, who was a starting tackle in camp in 2004, lost each of the last two seasons to wrist injuries, opening the door for Darnell Dockett to take over the position.

Dockett and end Chike Okeafor managed to play in all 16 games in 2005, but they had little backup support and it took a toll.

The Cardinals are lining up now with Berry, a 2004 Pro Bowler, and Okeafor at the ends with Clancy and Dockett inside.

Antonio Smith has emerged as a reliable backup end. Pace was moved to weak-side linebacker, where he is working with the first unit while Karlos Dansby recovers from thumb surgery, but Pace is expected to be available for backup duty at end, as well.

"Any time you can eliminate 15 to 20 plays off of a guy in a 65- or 70-play game, that's huge," defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast said.

Rookie tackles Watson and Jonathan Lewis are expected to see duty inside, as well, as are veterans Moore and Tim Bulman.

"If we can have guys come in and spell us every so often, that only keeps us that much more energized and that much more able to fly around and make plays," Berry said. "If you go back to 2004, Calvin Pace was one of the biggest reasons I had the year that I had (14 sacks). He was able to spell me at times during games and I was able to stay fresh.

"You look at teams with the great defenses, they usually can rotate seven, eight defensive linemen in."

I'd like to think that if they can keep their front 7 healthy you'll see a big change in the number of rushing touchdowns given up from last season, and probably less td's overall as they'll be able to be more effective pass rushing as well.Thirdly, as mentioned before, if (as I think likely) the addition of James allows the Cardinal offense to have longer more sustained drives it will keep the defense off the field, fresher and more effective, which will enhance their performance. The Cardinals were last in every single rushing category last year - by huge margins in some of them. As we all know an effective rushing game is a defense's best friend - I think the Cardinals can get back at least to where they were when they had Emmitt Smith with the addition of James, which should really help the defense.

Sleep on them at your leisure, but don't be surprised if Dave and Joe end up being right about this one.

Good comeback! I love a good front 7. However, you are assuming they come back healthy. I agree about the TD's, but in football (more so than baseball) the stats are not as reliable in that while you are correct the TD's shouldn't be as high, it is possible teams were in the lead so much that they were vanilla running the ball because they didn't need to get more yards in bunches. I have them in one of my leagues and their schedule is pretty nice as well (you should have used that), but I still don't see that much of a jump IN FANTASY POINTS. That being said, maybe all the others and myself should give them more respect.

I have been trying to review some of my predictions and those of others. It gives me a good indication of who is "on the ball" or not. Groovus had a good comeback and had some well thought out info (which I respect), but the Cards defense is 17th in my league and it was an area that Dave and Joe were out of line IMO.BTW, just so you don't think some of the posts I may resurface are to pat myself on the back, I reviewed my prediction before the 2006 year that Leftwich would be a better QB on a per game basis than Roethlisberger. While per game Lefty was good, Big Ben has become an excellent starter while Lefty is having trouble getting on the field