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Libya is imploding (1 Viewer)

A refresher on the impact of the decision to bomb Libya on the mindset of North Korean leaders.

North Korea Suggests Libya Should Have Kept Nuclear Program

By MARK McDONALD

Published: March 24, 2011

SEOUL, South Korea — A North Korean statement that Libya’s dismantling of its nuclear weapons program had made it vulnerable to military intervention by the West is being seen by analysts as an ominous reinforcement of the North’s refusal to end its own nuclear program.

North Korea’s official news agency carried comments this week from a Foreign Ministry official criticizing the air assault on Libyan government forces and suggesting that Libya had been duped in 2003 when it abandoned its nuclear program in exchange for promises of aid and improved relations with the West.

Calling the West’s bargain with Libya “an invasion tactic to disarm the country,” the official said it amounted to a bait and switch approach. “The Libyan crisis is teaching the international community a grave lesson,” the official was quoted as saying Tuesday, proclaiming that North Korea’s “songun” ideology of a powerful military was “proper in a thousand ways” and the only guarantor of peace on the Korean Peninsula.

As they have watched the attacks in Libya this week, senior North Korean leaders “must feel alarmed, but also deeply satisfied with themselves,” said Rüdiger Frank, an adjunct professor at Korea University and the University of North Korean Studies, writing on the Web site 38 North. North Korea is believed to have 8 to 12 nuclear weapons and last year disclosed a new uranium-enrichment plant.

Mr. Frank said that the Libyan situation was “at least the third instance in two decades that would seem to offer proof that they did something right while others failed and ultimately paid the price.” He said North Korea would probably see object lessons in the Soviet Union’s decision to end the arms race and to “abandon the political option to use their weapons of mass destruction,” and in Iraq’s agreement to accept United Nations nuclear inspectors and monitors. And now, Libya.

“To put it bluntly,” Mr. Frank said, “in the eyes of the North Korean leadership all three countries took the economic bait, foolishly disarmed themselves, and once they were defenseless, were mercilessly punished by the West.”

“It requires little imaginative power to see what conclusions will be drawn in Pyongyang,” he said, adding that anyone in the senior leadership who favored denuclearization “will now be silent.”

The United States said there was no link between Libya’s abandonment of efforts to develop nuclear arms and other weapons and the current military campaign by Western nations.

“Where they’re at today has absolutely no connection with them renouncing their nuclear program or nuclear weapons,” said Mark Toner, a State Department spokesman.

The comments by the anonymous North Korean official appeared to dim the chances for a renewal of the so-called six-party talks on the dismantling of North Korea’s atomic program. The talks ended in 2009 when North Korea withdrew, angry over international sanctions that followed a long-range missile test. The two Koreas, the United States, China, Russia and Japan are the participants in the six-party process, which began in 2003. China, North Korea’s only major ally, has served as the host country.
 
It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons.
They were never relinquishing those anyway.
There was legitimate hope that they would comply. Libya had complied after all. Forget it now, though. They are going to arm themselves to the teeth, and leverage those weapons to extort what they need. Its either that or get treated like Libya did.
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
:lmao: :lmao: You people are ridiculous
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
:lmao: :lmao: You people are ridiculous
It's Beej. What did you expect?
 
It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons.
They were never relinquishing those anyway.
There was legitimate hope that they would comply. Libya had complied after all. Forget it now, though. They are going to arm themselves to the teeth, and leverage those weapons to extort what they need. Its either that or get treated like Libya did.
You posted a statement from NK that they know that nuclear weapons are key to preventing any attacks so why would what happened to Libya matter? The only thing it did was prove that they were right to pursue them, which everyone already knows. It is in the best interest of any dictator-led country to gain nuclear weapons, there's nothing new here.
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
:lmao: :lmao: You people are ridiculous
It's Beej. What did you expect?
Is it really? Notebook updated. :thumbup: Those countries are going to get Nukes eventually anyhow. I don't think we should assist them but I really don't see it as some catastrophe. The foreign leaders are crazy but they're not stupid. Dropping nukes isn't something I believe they'd do. They just want their toys so they can feel important.
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
Interesting analysis, but like we weren't going to see it anyway! You are expecting an Orange County housewife to abandon a boob job one ### in.
:lmao:
 
'Draftnik said:
Looks like Col. Ghadaffi isn't going to make it to General.
I always wondered why he never promoted himself. I'm sure he's kicking himself now.
This is the reason The Colonel has always given...A Revolutionary Command Council was formed to rule the country, with Gaddafi as chairman. He added the title of prime minister in 1970, but gave up this title in 1972. Unlike some other military revolutionaries, Gaddafi did not promote himself to the rank of general upon seizing power, but rather accepted a ceremonial promotion from captain to colonel and remained at this rank. While at odds with Western military ranking, where a colonel would not rule a country or serve as commander-in-chief of its military, in Gaddafi's own words Libya's society is "ruled by the people", so he did not need a more grandiose title or supreme military rank.

Looks like Col. Ghadaffi isn't going to make it to General.
I wonder if he still gets his military pension.
Sure, what the hell, why not? This guy is still getting his military pay.
 
Also, the twitter coverage of this has killed, finest example why Twitter is the most important social media ever created.

 
Also, the twitter coverage of this has killed, finest example why Twitter is the most important social media ever created.
how is twitter specifically enabling anything that the internet doesn't? it's basically a big message board. if joe b. would just shell out some cash he could add servers to fbg and make us bigger than twitter.
 
Also, the twitter coverage of this has killed, finest example why Twitter is the most important social media ever created.
how is twitter specifically enabling anything that the internet doesn't? it's basically a big message board. if joe b. would just shell out some cash he could add servers to fbg and make us bigger than twitter.
Dude, there's like 3,000 people here with 10 aliases a piece.
 
Also, the twitter coverage of this has killed, finest example why Twitter is the most important social media ever created.
how is twitter specifically enabling anything that the internet doesn't? it's basically a big message board. if joe b. would just shell out some cash he could add servers to fbg and make us bigger than twitter.
Dude, there's like 3,000 people here with 10 aliases a piece.
that's just like, your opinion, man
 
Also, the twitter coverage of this has killed, finest example why Twitter is the most important social media ever created.
how is twitter specifically enabling anything that the internet doesn't? it's basically a big message board. if joe b. would just shell out some cash he could add servers to fbg and make us bigger than twitter.
Dude, there's like 3,000 people here with 10 aliases a piece.
Yeah but they're all rich and that makes them worth 1000 regular people each
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just listened to the CNN report from Tripoli. According to Saif, the rebels have stepped into the Colonel's trap by coming to Tripoli. That is, the loyalist forces now have them exactly where they want them... in the jaws of a trap that is about to snap closed.

Here's my advice to the Colonel: Learn from Whitey Bulger. I can understand that looking for a safe haven in Algeria would come with a huge price tag: They probably would want the bulk of the $1 billion or more the Colonel has stashed away. Plus, the Colonel would have to live in disgrace as Dr. Evil who just wasn't evil enough. F-that. Whitey had cash stowed in safe deposit boxes all around the world, along with multiple identities. He was able to go for plastic surgery for himself and his travel companion to disguise his identity. Whitey was able to live quite comfortably for quite a long time, playing Pinochle with the folks down the senior center. And when he was ultimately found, he returned in style on board a government G5... leave the commercial first-class to chet and his ilk!

That's my advice to the Colonel: Do what Whitey did... but lose the mistress who may know your real identity.

 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
:lmao: :lmao: You people are ridiculous
It's Beej. What did you expect?
Is it really? Notebook updated. :thumbup: Those countries are going to get Nukes eventually anyhow. I don't think we should assist them but I really don't see it as some catastrophe. The foreign leaders are crazy but they're not stupid. Dropping nukes isn't something I believe they'd do. They just want their toys so they can feel important.
To bad that logic doesn't hold water once a suicide bomber wants his shiny nuke toy to feel his importance... you give too much faith to rational human thinking in world leaders. Throughout history there have been numerous psycho leaders that kill and kill some more, just because they like it and have the power to do it. Any of them get nukes, they will get used.
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
:lmao: :lmao: You people are ridiculous
It's Beej. What did you expect?
Is it really? Notebook updated. :thumbup: Those countries are going to get Nukes eventually anyhow. I don't think we should assist them but I really don't see it as some catastrophe. The foreign leaders are crazy but they're not stupid. Dropping nukes isn't something I believe they'd do. They just want their toys so they can feel important.
To bad that logic doesn't hold water once a suicide bomber wants his shiny nuke toy to feel his importance... you give too much faith to rational human thinking in world leaders. Throughout history there have been numerous psycho leaders that kill and kill some more, just because they like it and have the power to do it. Any of them get nukes, they will get used.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Even a "psycho" leader has some smarts if they were able to rise to a significant leadership position.
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
:lmao: :lmao: You people are ridiculous
It's Beej. What did you expect?
Is it really? Notebook updated. :thumbup: Those countries are going to get Nukes eventually anyhow. I don't think we should assist them but I really don't see it as some catastrophe. The foreign leaders are crazy but they're not stupid. Dropping nukes isn't something I believe they'd do. They just want their toys so they can feel important.
To bad that logic doesn't hold water once a suicide bomber wants his shiny nuke toy to feel his importance... you give too much faith to rational human thinking in world leaders. Throughout history there have been numerous psycho leaders that kill and kill some more, just because they like it and have the power to do it. Any of them get nukes, they will get used.
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Even a "psycho" leader has some smarts if they were able to rise to a significant leadership position.
Absolutely, you don't remain dictator for this length of time with a great deal of intelligence. Even people like Hitler or Stalin who killed millions did it with a plan and a purpose.
 
Also, the twitter coverage of this has killed, finest example why Twitter is the most important social media ever created.
how is twitter specifically enabling anything that the internet doesn't? it's basically a big message board. if joe b. would just shell out some cash he could add servers to fbg and make us bigger than twitter.
The proof is in the pudding. Twitter has every news story first, sometimes hours ahead of the major news. I just think it is amazing to be able to have a direct connection into the thoughts of the journalists over the last couple days as they have been trapped in the Rixos: from gunfire, being abandoned, losing power and huddling around to find cheese and now to breaking the news that Saif is uncaptured. It sounds like the hotel is taking artillery fire though. After following them so closely the last few days, I will be really devastated if anything happens to them.
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
We proved that to them long ago. They would be foolish to give up their goal of having nuclear weapons. Otherwise, their opinion would not matter on the world stage.
 
Don't some of you feel a little embarrassed by tarnishing threads like this one with Republican vs Democrat finger pointing? Give it a rest already.

 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
or rhe very opposite of this
 
If Gaddafi's regime falls, its going to have powerfully grave consequences. It will convince the leadership in North Korea and Iran to never surrender their dreams of obtaining nuclear weapons. The only reason we are bombing Libya is because Gaddafi didn't have the resolve to stick to his WMD program. Years of successful diplomacy completely undone. North Korea and Iran will never trust the West again. I was hoping Gaddafi could hold out until our leadership could see the error of their ways, but its looking like that won't happen. We're going to see the rise of nuclear Iran and nuclear North Korea for sure now.
or rhe very opposite of this
I'm so happy that our decades of diplomacy and cooperation with N. Korea has built up the trust level neccesary to take them at their word.Mission accomplished!

 
On Sunday, they set airport buildings ablaze, apparently intending to destroy rather than hold the site.

The victory, which secures Islamist control over Tripoli, was a culmination of weeks of fighting triggered by elections in July, lost by Islamist parties.
Hmmm....

 
Washington (CNN)Former CIA Deputy Director Michael Morell takes aim at those whom he accuses of politicizing the efforts of intelligence services in his new book The Great War Of Our Times: The CIA's Fight Against Terrorism—From al Qa'ida to ISIS.
Politicians and policymakers from both parties come in for criticism, including Vice President **** Cheney, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and the Obama White House officials who helped write the talking points on Benghazi.

...

The Obama administration suffers some of Morell's disdain in Chapter 10, "Stalking Points." The chapter is largely a defense of Morell's own role in the controversy over how Obama administration talking points about the September 11, 2012 attacks on U.S. compounds in Benghazi, Libya. Morell characterizes his critics's charges as a hunt for ways to show that the Obama administration was trying to "hide the hand of al Qa'ida in the attack and thereby protect President Obama's campaign theme that he was tough on terrorism."

While fact-checking his critics, Morell also concedes mistakes by the CIA in the talking points debacle, though he insists they were made for editorial or otherwise innocent reasons (removing "Islamic" from "Islamic extremists" so as not to make a combustible situation even worse, for instance).

But he then goes on to assail the White House's treatment of the finished work product, noting that "there was something different in the White House-produced points sent to [National Security Adviser Dr. Susan] Rice's staff." Morell singles out what many in the media noted, that in the "Goals" section of the talking points, it stated: "To underscore that these protests are rooted in an Internet video and not a broader failure of policy." (Bear in mind that the 2012 election was just weeks away.)

"The White House has argued that its talking points were not about Benghazi but about the broader protests taking place in the region," Morell writes. "But that explanation does not hold water --because just one bullet point later in the 'Goals' section of the White House talking points is the following: 'To show that we will be resolute in bringing people who harm Americans to justice' -- and the only place Americans had been harmed during that period was in Benghazi."

Morell concludes that the White House was "blaming the Benghazi attack on the video -- which is not something CIA did in its talking points or in its classified analysis." Stating his belief that a bright red line should exist between those White House officials responsible for national security and those in charge of politics, and "the line about how Benghazi was not a failure rooted in broader policy seemed to me to be a political statement not a national security one." Morell also tweaks Rice for saying on a Sunday show that there had been a "substantial security presence" in Benghazi, which wasn't in either the White House or CIA talking points. ...
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/11/politics/michael-morrell-book-cia-obama-cheney/index.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0AMbo60ggI

 

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