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Lineup Mistake - What is a Commish to do? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Gally
- Start date
zamboni
Footballguy
This is a critical piece of information because I’m guessing Team B probably did care but made a mistake (unless they don’t care in general - don’t know). If Team B was 0-8 or 1-7, it might be a different case that they gave up, and would be tough to give Team A an easy win.
The way I commish is to take most controversies separately based on the facts/circumstances rather than paint a broad brush. It creates some issues among league members sometimes, but that’s why I get paid the big bucks.
Like I said it’s an obvious mistake OR tanking.
I think this attitude is poor and not in the spirit of why most people play fantasy football. You getting rich or making a living on it? Doubt it. I don’t play in friendly leagues, always money involved, but there is an etiquette to these things and winning has an intrinsic value above and beyond money that’s lost when you need stuff like this to win.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The more I think about this I tend to agree that if the games already started you don't let him start Jackson. However, a stern warning should be issued and if it happens again, remove the owner without issuing a refund and find another manager. In some cases do that anyway. Like I said previously, where this gets dicey is with dynasty leagues. Not only does giving a team a potential free win that affects playoff positioning, it also affects draft positioning as well. Teams that are losing but trying are penalized by this ineptness, and sometimes blatant tanking. That's what I meant by affecting league integrity. I've seen dynasty leagues fold because of this type of behavior. Being a commissioner sucks sometimes and they have to deal with bad managers. Whether that is intentional or not. Keeping a dynasty league together with as little turnover as possible is essential to the long term survival of the league.
I know this situation is not a dynasty league, so sorry about the dynasty tangent. The situations are different for sure.
Dizzy
Footballguy
In our league you are responsible for setting your line-up every week. No tanking is tolerated. You "forget" to set your line-up for a second consecutive week... you are out.
Set it and check it... no "the website screwed me" excuses will be accepted. If there really is a problem, notify the Commish and your opponent immediately.
It's all pretty simple actually. You either care enough, or you don't. If you care enough, there should never be a problem. If you don't, go find another league.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
If it's really causing a league-wide stink, then I'd leave it between Team A and Team B to sort out. They are the interested parties.
If A wants to allow the change even though its in his/her competitive disinterest, then go for it. Otherwise the rules are the rules.
And the "non-involved" team who pointed out the problem is likely not remotely disinterested. They are probably fighting for a playoff spot and would like nothing better than to see the 5-3 Team B knock off 6-2 Team A
Team B not playing Lamar basically guarantees Team A goes to 7-2, which negatively impacts the "non-involved" teams' playoff chances.
If A wants to allow the change even though its in his/her competitive disinterest, then go for it. Otherwise the rules are the rules.
And the "non-involved" team who pointed out the problem is likely not remotely disinterested. They are probably fighting for a playoff spot and would like nothing better than to see the 5-3 Team B knock off 6-2 Team A
Team B not playing Lamar basically guarantees Team A goes to 7-2, which negatively impacts the "non-involved" teams' playoff chances.
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
I will say, it is a league integrity matter, its not just between two teams, it can and probably will affect playoff spots and seeds
Would you give someone an easy pass to the playoffs because someone was checked out week 13?
Would you give someone an easy pass to the playoffs because someone was checked out week 13?
The owner that made the mistake did not contact me. It was an owner not involved in the game (not team A or B). The owner that made the mistake said don't do anything.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The elephant in the room that some do not want to recognize. From the words of Sgt. Schultz, "I see nothing!!".
It is a dynasty league.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Oh Ok, I obviously glanced right over that. Without going into anymore details, I think everyone knows how I feel about the dynasty impact of bad owners and what it means for the health of a league, so I won't rehash that again.
This is a dynasty league. It is a $200 entry fee per year league. The team that made the mistake did not complain or try and have me fix anything. In fact, he said it shouldn't get fixed. His mistake and he owns it and doesn't think it should be switched. There are other owners that would beg for a switch but not this guy.
There are many aspects to this situation that influence my decision with the primary one being the Lamar team is one game out of 1st place and therefore tanking is not a consideration. It points to a completely honest mistake.
That being said there are owners in this league that try and manipulate the rules and will bring back decisions like this to try and get them an advantage sometimes years later. We have had to alter and add rules to the bylaws because of this. That also influences how I handle this situation.
Generally speaking I likely would just put Danold in and call it good. It is a league amongst friends and I believe it was an honest mistake. However, Lamar owner wants no changes and if we change this then it could come back to haunt me down the road.
So, we are saying tough luck. Your mistake and it hurts so hopefully you double check your lineups in the future.
There are many aspects to this situation that influence my decision with the primary one being the Lamar team is one game out of 1st place and therefore tanking is not a consideration. It points to a completely honest mistake.
That being said there are owners in this league that try and manipulate the rules and will bring back decisions like this to try and get them an advantage sometimes years later. We have had to alter and add rules to the bylaws because of this. That also influences how I handle this situation.
Generally speaking I likely would just put Danold in and call it good. It is a league amongst friends and I believe it was an honest mistake. However, Lamar owner wants no changes and if we change this then it could come back to haunt me down the road.
So, we are saying tough luck. Your mistake and it hurts so hopefully you double check your lineups in the future.
This guy isn't a bad owner. He just made a mistake and is kicking himself for it. Like I said, he didn't even ask for anything. He just was going to eat it because he knows it was all on him.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Just drop it then and if it becomes a habit, you know what to do. I suppose anyone could make a mistake like this, me included if the conditions are right, but generally I feel if someone isn't paying attention to their lineup, then yes, they are a bad owner.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
efactor
Footballguy
Agree.
Pay attention or suffer the consequences. Don’t like commissioner’s babying teams. Seems to happen a lot even in leagues with experienced players.
efactor
Footballguy
But that’s part of why a couple of owners in the league that I play in with you are big babies
efactor
Footballguy
Thank you
Stoneworker
Footballguy
If the owner is taking responsibility and playing by the rules then why are you and the "non-involved" owners even meddling?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
What are your thoughts in dynasty leagues where giving a free win affects several teams playoff positioning, perhaps even ruining a team's chances, or affecting draft positioning because someone has checked out? What if it was your team that was affected negatively by someone else doing this? What if you were knocked out of thousands of dollars by someone elses mistake? Lastly, and I know you probably don't have any idea, but can't you see where this kind of stuff could kill a dynasty league? Perhaps you don't care that much if you're not the commissoner, not sure.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
So many different types of fantasy owners. The casuals. The meticulous freaks. The bare minimums. The cheaters. Trying to find the 10 or 12 owners with a similar mind set is basically like the journey of Frodo and the Fellowship of the Ring. I had a league where we booted the reigning champion because he didn't line up to how we thought you should manage a fake football team. Ha ha. Integrity a question? Boot, rinse and replace.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Tell that to the the team not involved that gets knocked out of the playoffs because someone else received a free win. Or tell that to the team who gets a lower draft pick because someone didn't care enough about his team and benefitted from his own ignorance.
efactor
Footballguy
Well, actually I commish a 16 team dynasty so I am quite familiar with the dynamics. Making quick and decisive decisions is imperative to the integrity of the league, not hand holding owners because you fear you might have to find a replacement. This league has been in existence for 25 years and every time we lost an owner, somebody knows someone who wants to play. Mainly because there are firm rules in place, no arbitrary judgements made by the commissioner. Works wonders.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Ok, good for you. But no one probably wants to address my comment.
"Tell that to the the team not involved that gets knocked out of the playoffs because someone else received a free win. Or tell that to the team who gets a lower draft pick because someone didn't care enough about his team and benefitted from his own ignorance.". As someone else said, "Them's the breaks"? I don't buy that for a second. Especially if they aren't even involved and gets screwed by someone else's inactivity.
I am not meddling. The non involved owner brought it my attention so I asked the Lamar owner about it. Once I got info I felt doing nothing was the right answer.
The thing is it isn't a free win. Players put up goose eggs all the time. Now missing out on Lamar's points makes it an uphill battle but it's not an auto loss. The guy didn't play 8 guys that didn't play. One player out of 16 starters is far from an auto win for the other guy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
You know what meant. It could turn it just as I said.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
If no rules were broken and the league is comprised of adults, it should have never gone past telling the non-involved owner to mind his own business
Which is what I did and he wasn't happy with my decision.
Basically I wanted to give the Lamar owner a hard time and see what led to the obvious mistake.
It would have been much more of an issue if he wasn't a game out if 1st place.
If it was a habit I would agree. A one off like this by a team one game out of first really doesn't ruse to that level.
Also, we don't have playoffs. We play 18 weeks with best record taking the title. One game matters but in this situation a top team was winning regardless. The impact is minimal in relation to your concern.
What I agree with is that this can turn into an issue if it becomes habitual but a one off obviously innocent mistake isn't a systemic issue.
Dizzy
Footballguy
So... there really is no problem that I can see. Again, "Them's the breaks" and good for the Lamar owner to own his mistake.
That is a problem for money leagues. It triggers the degenerate gambler mechanism that lies dormant in some. They will always be looking for that edge.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Commissioners have enough on their plate. The act of plugging the correct player into the lineup is on the players in the league. Doing anything less is just going to create a slippery slope for the next "lineup crisis".
I get that some bleeding heart is trying to encourage the commish to override poor team management, but I'm actually amazed this question even needs to be asked in the first place.
I get that some bleeding heart is trying to encourage the commish to override poor team management, but I'm actually amazed this question even needs to be asked in the first place.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Then this thread has probably exhausted itself.
I understand what you said and I was pointing out that in this case it wasn't tanking. To your second statement yes I play for money but mainly for fun but the problem is what I brought up in my post, You're giving someone a break b/c the game happened to be on Thursday night, then next time it's a 1 p.m game and someone wants to plug in a guy at 8 but another guy doesn't have another guy to put in, or a guy says he forgot to sub out Jordan Mason for Jonathon Taylor. It's a simple rule, everyone is responsible for setting their lineup (obv. exceptions for extenuating circumstances, or if a league wants to set up conditional players, etc.)
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
Now There is some accountability.
Its not a free win. Both teams have winning records and are fighting for a playoff spot. One team hurt their own playoff chances by not paying attention to their lineup. That's his fault and might cost himself a playoff spot.
If this was a 7-1 vs 1-7 team I would agree
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I was being general about dynasty leagues, and what could happen in this situation, not this specific situation. Not all situations are the same obviously.
We are hands-off with starting lineups even in our dynasty. Now, it's been the same people for over 20 years so that certainly plays a roll in not seeing blatant lineup questions but, even still, an owner should reserve the right to start whomever on their team as long as they aren't doing something completely obvious like starting a backup QB that won't play when they have a starter that could be played. If an owner was perhaps worried about Lamar reinjuring his hamstring and prefers to see him in action before plugging him in then who am I to force him against his strategy? If he took that same approach with several "studs" and it was pretty obvious he's tanking then I would address it with the team and see if he's willing to change it himself or, if need be, bring the issue to a league vote (neither has had to happen).
Proteus
Footballguy
What if a team gets knocked out of the playoffs when Pittsburgh played overseas and Jaylen Warren was ruled out before what must have been a 630AM kickoff on the west coast of the US? Does the commissioner fix this honest, understandable mistake? Where does it stop?
I've played FF since 1991 but what is your point? seems irrelevant.
Get your lineup in whatever way you can, that includes communicating to the commish if you're unable to login/use the app/internet, etc.
the moops
Footballguy
Fines for doing what?
FarFromHome
Footballguy
My point was that fantasy owners have been successfully submitting lineups since we used pen and paper and cable news for info. Nowaways you can literally change your lineup waiting in the drive thru of the pharmacy while you pick up your Zoloft.
My home league does this. For playing a backup, injured player or player on bye, really anything that is clearly tanking, whether intentional or not
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Only before if caught. Not after game starts.
Let’s add on to this scenario and see if it changes anyone else’s perceptions. Team B starts Huntley, because, as he said, he tried to change to Lamar and it didn’t save his change (some sort of computer error, I guess). Lamar starts, and breaks his leg on the first play of the game. Huntley comes in and throws for 6 TD’s. What do you do now? Team B said it was an honest mistake that he accidentally started Huntley. In this scenario, do you take Huntley out of his starting lineup after he scores a ton?
efactor
Footballguy
I would bet it would be called a “fortuitous error”.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Respectfully, your example is a different scenario entirely though - like, so much so that it’s irrelevant to the question at hand.
I get what you’re saying, and logically it sounds like we’re looking at the same scenario with a different outcome. Whatever the answer to your question here, it doesn’t at all equate to accidentally starting Huntley when LJax is active. The implication is associative property, but it just doesn’t work like that. They’re dissimilar scenarios, one with a hypothetical outcome. Huntley doesn’t even need to throw 6 TD in your scenario. He just needs to score more than LJax did. My answer there is that obviously no one would do anything. Player started a QB who got points, the league is otherwise not impacted.
But in the scenario posted by @Gally
a top team in the league would essentially be gifted a W, which could have league-wide impact and playoff implications. In Gally’s scenario, the person who made the mistake wasn’t raising sand over it. It sounded to me like they were owning their mistake and were ready to just take the L.
Like I said above, I’d put it to league vote to see if the league was good with swapping for their QB2. If the league approved I’d have no issue with it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ps - a better hypothetical question might be “what if LJax had 3 Ints for -9 in on his bench and Huntley had a 0.”
But you didn’t ask that.
But you didn’t ask that.
