Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[Mr. Know-It-All]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

 

[chauncey]

"Cops racially profile us as thugs and criminals"

Let's show them by burning the city down, stealing from innocent business owners, and throwing rocks and firing guns in the air.

Brilliant plan.

 

[timschochet]

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

 

[Billy Bats]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

 

[irish eyes]

Wonder what time the protestors and hooligans have to get up for work..oh that's right they don't have jobs & sponge off the government they hate. BRAVO!!!!

 

[The General]

Police have no choice but to take an extremely passive stance. It's the only way to swing public opinion back on their side where it should be.

I would think it is the best way to handle this. If they were aggressive it could really get ugly, really fast.

 

[Guest]

This is on the front page of Reddit right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPUcA7yrErg&feature=youtu.be

I haven't seen anything else from Fredrick Wilson II but I might have to subscribe.

Wow

This guys get's it.

GO STAKE YOUR CLAIM. It's a free country.

Nah, it's way easier to keep your hand out and blame everyone else.

So refreshing. Not a perfect country, but these situations take black culture two steps back because there is an unwillingness to acknowledge culpability and enact change. The community needs more people like that guy to call out the bs and set a new model for behavior that's lauded.

 

[squistion]

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

WOW I weep for this country and the fact that you live hear. What a dope you are, please don't comment any further. Actually please do so we can laugh at you.

Yes, I, live hear (sic). Indeed what a dope I am.

Well, I weep for this country too, but it is from the lack of adequate instruction in the English language for some native born citizens.

 

[timschochet]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

There continues to be a difference of agreement about the distance. It may have been longer than 30 feet.

 

[timschochet]

His step dad's statements are all you need to hear. To bad this thug idiot didn't get this sooner. And a big hand for all the uneducated moron jerkoff idiots who rioted, make Ferguson proud and reinforce that the cop was JUSTIFIED

I'm curious as to how the rioters "reinforce that the cop was justified." Perhaps you can explain this to me?

 

[The General]

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

I thought I heard they had non-police witnesses to 6 and 7. Is that right? If so, is there just disagreement with how it is worded in this description?

 

[jonessed]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

The coroner said the killing shot was inside ten feet. I'm not sure why that's being disputed.

 

[timschochet]

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

I thought I heard they had non-police witnesses to 6 and 7. Is that right? If so, is there just disagreement with how it is worded in this description?

They have non police witnesses with contradictory stories regarding these points. Some confirm Officer Wilson, some do not.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

I'd go one step further.

 

[Billy Bats]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

The coroner said the killing shot was inside ten feet. I'm not sure why that's being disputed.

No idea where Timmy is getting even further than 30 feet. The cop said he seen the bullet enter the top of his head, had to be pretty damn close to be able to see that happen. Also corroborates his story that Brown was charging and possibly going into a tackling position when he shot him in the head.

 

[General Tso]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

The coroner said the killing shot was inside ten feet. I'm not sure why that's being disputed.

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

The only thing in dispute with 6 is the grabbing of the gun. Brown attacked Officer Wilson and left several bruises on his face and head.

 

[irish eyes]

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

WOW I weep for this country and the fact that you live hear. What a dope you are, please don't comment any further. Actually please do so we can laugh at you.

Yes, I, live hear (sic). Indeed what a dope I am. Oh sorry I didn't catch the auto correct for the word here, hear. But hey if that makes you feel better good for you. Continue supporting the criminals & giving these non working losers reason to riot. Well, I weep for this country too, but it is from the lack of adequate instruction in the English language for some native born citizens.

 

[Jim11]

4 and a half minutes of silence in NY for Michael Brown? Are you ####### kidding me? Let me get this straight, if I want to be an immortalized hero in America all I have to do is rob a convenience sore, bully an old man, walk in the middle of the street, talk back to a cop, punch him, try to grab his gun, and then disobey his commands when he draws his gun and continue to walk towards him?And people have the nerve to mention this punk in the same sentence as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks. What a joke.

Um, Michael Brown is not being immortalized as a hero in America. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this one.

LOL. Dude, a crowd of about 2,000 people just stopped in front of the United Nations and observed a moment of silence "in his memory" for 4 and a half minutes!! That might be the longest moment of silence in history, at least since Borat. And do you not see all the people wearing Michael Brown shirts and hats? People are going to be naming their children after this piece of ####.

He is considered a victim. That is what the silence was for. He is not being recognized by anyone as a hero from what I have seen.

Michael Brown a victim???1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

And Mike Brown was a victim? Please tell me, in what crazy, fukced up universe is a belligerent assshat like this considered a victim?

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

Officer Wilson knew what would happen if Brown got his hands on him again, hence the shooting. All Brown needed to do was walk on the sidewalk and all this would have been averted.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

I thought I heard they had non-police witnesses to 6 and 7. Is that right? If so, is there just disagreement with how it is worded in this description?

They have non police witnesses with contradictory stories regarding these points. Some confirm Officer Wilson, some do not.

6. The autopsy confirmed the bullet wound to the hand was close range, and other forensic evidence supported the gun being fired inside the car.

 

[tdoss]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

10 yards...what...1-2 seconds max?

Even if it is 30 feet...doesn't seem unreasonable to me if a middle linebacker started charging at me that I'd have some serious trouble to deal with in a hurry.

 

[timschochet]

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

I thought I heard they had non-police witnesses to 6 and 7. Is that right? If so, is there just disagreement with how it is worded in this description?

They have non police witnesses with contradictory stories regarding these points. Some confirm Officer Wilson, some do not.

6. The autopsy confirmed the bullet wound to the hand was close range, and other forensic evidence supported the gun being fired inside the car.

That is correct. But it doesn't mean the struggle at the car went the way Wilson described.

For example, Wilson claims he was punched several times hard in the face (at least twice, maybe more over a period of 19 seconds.) There are photos of Wilson after the accident showing light bruises to his face. But at least some experts have questioned how serious these bruises are.

 

[the moops]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

What kind of dudes are those?

 

[Billy Bats]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

The coroner said the killing shot was inside ten feet. I'm not sure why that's being disputed.

Michael Brown a victim???

1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

Serious question I haven't followed this story at all really. What parts of the above description are in question?

6 and 7.

The only thing in dispute with 6 is the grabbing of the gun. Brown attacked Officer Wilson and left several bruises on his face and head.

Melinek, a forensic pathologist in San Francisco, said the autopsy supports the fact that this guy is reaching for the gun, if he has gunpowder particulate material in the wound. She added, If he has his hand near the gun when it goes off, hes going for the officers gun.

Sources told the Post-Dispatch that Browns blood had been found on Wilsons gun.

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/official-autopsy-shows-michael-brown-had-close-range-wound-to/article_e98a4ce0-c284-57c9-9882-3fb7df75fef6.html?mobile_touch=true

 

[SIDA!]

4 and a half minutes of silence in NY for Michael Brown? Are you ####### kidding me? Let me get this straight, if I want to be an immortalized hero in America all I have to do is rob a convenience sore, bully an old man, walk in the middle of the street, talk back to a cop, punch him, try to grab his gun, and then disobey his commands when he draws his gun and continue to walk towards him?And people have the nerve to mention this punk in the same sentence as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks. What a joke.

Um, Michael Brown is not being immortalized as a hero in America. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this one.

LOL. Dude, a crowd of about 2,000 people just stopped in front of the United Nations and observed a moment of silence "in his memory" for 4 and a half minutes!! That might be the longest moment of silence in history, at least since Borat. And do you not see all the people wearing Michael Brown shirts and hats? People are going to be naming their children after this piece of ####.

He is considered a victim. That is what the silence was for. He is not being recognized by anyone as a hero from what I have seen.

Michael Brown a victim???1. He robbed a convenience store, on camera, for a handful of $1 cigarillos.

2. He assaulted the owner, an old man literally half his size.

3. Instead of just leaving, he turns back into the store (and the camera) to intimidate the guy some more (I assume in the hopes he won't call the cops)

4. While holding stolen property in one hand, with drugs in his pocket, he brazenly walks in the middle of the road instead of the sidewalk.

5. When a cop tells him to get out of the street he doesn't (despite 4).

6. He taunts the cop, then attacks him inside his car and tries to grab his gun.

7. When the cop tells him to freeze, he charges him.

And Mike Brown was a victim? Please tell me, in what crazy, fukced up universe is a belligerent assshat like this considered a victim?

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

Officer Wilson knew what would happen if Brown got his hands on him again, hence the shooting. All Brown needed to do was walk on the sidewalk and all this would have been averted.

Well...there is also the thing about him stealing #### and assaulting a store employee...

 

[TheAristocrat]

I like the "some experts" theory that Tim loves but not the "some skeptics" theory among his other political observations.

 

[timschochet]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

10 yards...what...1-2 seconds max?

Even if it is 30 feet...doesn't seem unreasonable to me if a middle linebacker started charging at me that I'd have some serious trouble to deal with in a hurry.

Any 6-4 300 pound guy that can do that is playing in the NFL for a high salary.

 

[timschochet]

I like the "some experts" theory that Tim loves but not the "some skeptics" theory among his other political observations.

I'm not buying into it. I'm just saying that these matters have been in dispute and continue to be in dispute. But I don't know what the answers are.

 

[Mark Davis]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

10 yards...what...1-2 seconds max?

Even if it is 30 feet...doesn't seem unreasonable to me if a middle linebacker started charging at me that I'd have some serious trouble to deal with in a hurry.

Any 6-4 300 pound guy that can do that is playing in the NFL for a high salary.

So what, 5.5 seconds? We are still talking seconds and you're splitting hairs if that's your argument. The point is at 10 yards you aren't talking even 2 seconds. Not from Mike Brown, not from me, not from any non-paralyzed 18 year old.

 

[irish eyes]

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

WOW I weep for this country and the fact that you live hear. What a dope you are, please don't comment any further. Actually please do so we can laugh at you.

Yes, I, live hear (sic). Indeed what a dope I am. Well, I weep for this country too, but it is from the lack of adequate instruction in the English language for some native born citizens.

Oh sorry I didn't catch auto correct on the word hear (here) but if that makes you feel better about justifying pieces of garbage being able to do whatever they want, good for you. Tell all the unemployed idiots rioting there to maybe get a freakin job.

 

[bryhamm]

I like the "some experts" theory that Tim loves but not the "some skeptics" theory among his other political observations.

I'm not buying into it. I'm just saying that these matters have been in dispute and continue to be in dispute. But I don't know what the answers are.

no, they don't

 

[tdoss]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

10 yards...what...1-2 seconds max?

Even if it is 30 feet...doesn't seem unreasonable to me if a middle linebacker started charging at me that I'd have some serious trouble to deal with in a hurry.

Any 6-4 300 pound guy that can do that is playing in the NFL for a high salary.

OK...didn't say he could...

I said maybe 1-2 seconds...are you saying he couldn't cover 10 yards in 2 seconds?

 

[timschochet]

As regards the distance: Wilson said it was at around 35-40 feet that he started shooting (the second round of shots). Some witnesses agree with this, others don't. jonessed stated that there is an official autopsy that confirms 35-40 feet. Does anyone have a link to this?

The reason I mentioned that it might be more is that some witnesses supposedly put it at 60 feet or more. I heard a guy on the radio state with confidence that it was at least 100 feet a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't understand his reasoning so don't expect me to back it up. If anyone has some definitive information on this, please link it, thx.

 

[Guest]

I keep thinking back to the distance thing. 30 feet. 10 yards. Assuming Wilson felt his life was in danger, how close should he have allowed Brown to come? 10 yards seems awful close. If he has to be in arms reach, why do we allow cops to carry firearms. Maybe they should just have a sharp stick.

In his interview he said Brown got to within 8-10 feet then he started back pedaling.

The coroner said the killing shot was inside ten feet. I'm not sure why that's being disputed.

No idea where Timmy is getting even further than 30 feet. The cop said he seen the bullet enter the top of his head, had to be pretty damn close to be able to see that happen. Also corroborates his story that Brown was charging and possibly going into a tackling position when he shot him in the head.

The longest distance I've heard mentioned when Brown started his rush was 45 feet or 15 yards. From football, we all know what fast and slow 40 yard times are. If Brown was extremely extremely slow he runs a 6 second 40. So even at those extremes he covers the distance in 2.25 seconds.

 

[Bucky86]

Just heard they're looting Walgreens.

Sorry Em. Maybe CVS or RiteAid is hiring?

 

[timschochet]

I like the "some experts" theory that Tim loves but not the "some skeptics" theory among his other political observations.

I'm not buying into it. I'm just saying that these matters have been in dispute and continue to be in dispute. But I don't know what the answers are.

no, they don't

Yes they do. You and others may not want to hear that but it's certainly in dispute. There's probably going to be a civil trial that discusses all of these contradictory claims.

 

[tdoss]

Has St. Louis Bob been around tonight?

Just wondering how his friends and family back in that area are doing.

 

[Mario Kart]

This is on the front page of Reddit right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPUcA7yrErg&feature=youtu.be

I haven't seen anything else from Fredrick Wilson II but I might have to subscribe.

YouTube = E. T. Williams (search Common Sense & ET Williams)You might like it.

 

[timschochet]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

10 yards...what...1-2 seconds max?

Even if it is 30 feet...doesn't seem unreasonable to me if a middle linebacker started charging at me that I'd have some serious trouble to deal with in a hurry.

Any 6-4 300 pound guy that can do that is playing in the NFL for a high salary.

So what, 5.5 seconds? We are still talking seconds and you're splitting hairs if that's your argument. The point is at 10 yards you aren't talking even 2 seconds. Not from Mike Brown, not from me, not from any non-paralyzed 18 year old.

The question is was Michael Brown walking toward Wilson from that distance or charging him? If he was indeed charging him at full speed, then the shooting was probably justified. But again, there is contradictory evidence on this point.

 

[The General]

The 6 and 7 points from the write up from General Tso are really the main thing obviously. Seems like people can have all kinds of different ways to see that depending on what they want to see or what agenda they want to have. Some of the posters added some links supporting that the guy grabbed the gun as I was typing this.

They have to release all the accounts - the ones they used and the ones they tossed - right? Was this done yesterday?

The fact that this guy robbed a store moments before and they have video of that is pretty crazy.

 

[Mark Davis]

Dudes can cover 40 yards in 4 seconds nowadays...

10 yards...what...1-2 seconds max?

Even if it is 30 feet...doesn't seem unreasonable to me if a middle linebacker started charging at me that I'd have some serious trouble to deal with in a hurry.

Any 6-4 300 pound guy that can do that is playing in the NFL for a high salary.

So what, 5.5 seconds? We are still talking seconds and you're splitting hairs if that's your argument. The point is at 10 yards you aren't talking even 2 seconds. Not from Mike Brown, not from me, not from any non-paralyzed 18 year old.

The question is was Michael Brown walking toward Wilson from that distance or charging him? If he was indeed charging him at full speed, then the shooting was probably justified. But again, there is contradictory evidence on this point.

OK, try this. Go stand 10 yards from a guy and have him walk toward you with the intent of punching you when he gets there. See how long it takes. You aren't going to have a whole lot of time. Not to mention, if you are approaching someone who has already shot you, it seems to reason you'd be doing so while trying to disarm the person and moving as fast as you can. There's no other reason to approach.

 

[humpback]

why do people get SO mad at looting? I guess its the visual.

Some people see some Captain Morgan and a George Foreman grill walk out the door and spiral into deep rage.

Who cares?

Racism runs down hill... which is ironic given the root of the "protests"... but this picture is worth a thousand words to me http://i.imgur.com/eXaWAMN.png

I can't imagine being an immigrant who goes to the middle of America, pools your money, scrimps, saves, opens your shop only to have people run through it because some idiot robbed you.

I don't like seeing an O'Reilly's Auto parts burn, but this picture is infuriating to me.

 

[TheAristocrat]

I like the "some experts" theory that Tim loves but not the "some skeptics" theory among his other political observations.

I'm not buying into it. I'm just saying that these matters have been in dispute and continue to be in dispute. But I don't know what the answers are.

no, they don't

Yes they do. You and others may not want to hear that but it's certainly in dispute. There's probably going to be a civil trial that discusses all of these contradictory claims.

I do not agree that that is in dispute but I will agree that the civil trial could discuss these contradictory claims and it could change my opinion. Sworn oath does change preliminary statements.

 

[timschochet]

Just to demonstrate that, despite Bryhamm's assertion, there really are a lot of points in dispute here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury-evidence-mistakes_n_6220814.html?ref=topbar

Soon after Officer Darren Wilson shot and killed Michael Brown, an unarmed 18-year-old, law enforcement’s handling of the case was already being criticized as callous and sloppy. Residents of Ferguson, Missouri, looked on in horror as police officials failed to cover and later to remove Brown’s body from the street for hours.

Now that the grand jury evidence, including forensic records and testimony from Wilson and those investigating the fatal shooting, has been released, it's clear that other mistakes were made in attempting to figure out what happened on that August afternoon. The best physical evidence and testimony might not have been as ironclad in Wilson's favor as prosecutor Robert McCulloch characterized it on Monday night.

From the reams of grand jury testimony and police evidence, here are some key points that, if this case had gone to trial, could have been highlighted by prosecutors (not including the witnesses who appeared to contradict Wilson’s testimony):

1. Wilson washed away blood evidence.

In an interview with police investigators, Wilson admitted that after the shooting he returned to police headquarters and washed blood off his body -- physical evidence that could have helped to prove or disprove a critical piece of Wilson’s testimony regarding his struggle with Brown inside the police car. He told his interrogator that he had blood on both of his hands. “I think it was his blood,” Wilson said referring to Brown. He added that he was not cut anywhere.

2. The first officer to interview Wilson failed to take any notes.

The first supervising officer to the scene, who was also the first person to interview Wilson about the incident, didn’t take any notes about their conversation. In testimony more than a month after the incident, the officer offered his account from memory. He explained that he hadn’t been equipped with a recorder and hadn’t tried to take any written notes due to the chaotic nature of the situation. He also didn’t write up any notes soon after the fact. “I didn’t take notes because at that point in time I had multiple things going through my head besides what Darren was telling me,” the officer stated.

The same officer admitted during his grand jury testimony that Wilson had called him personally after they both had been interviewed by investigators. Wilson then went over his account again with the officer. The officer told the grand jury that there were no discrepancies between Wilson’s first account in person and his second account on the phone. But the call raises questions about whether Wilson may have influenced witness testimony.

3. Investigators failed to measure the likely distance between Brown and Wilson.

An unnamed medical legal examiner who responded to the shooting testified before the grand jury that he or she had not taken any distance measurements at the scene, because they appeared “self-explanatory.”

“Somebody shot somebody. There was no question as to any distances or anything of that nature at the time I was there,” the examiner told the jury.

The examiner also noted that he or she hadn’t been able to take pictures at the scene -- as is standard -- because the camera's batteries were dead. The examiner later testified that he or she accompanied investigators from the St. Louis County Police Department as they photographed Brown’s body.

4. Investigators did not test Wilson’s gun for fingerprints.

Talking with police investigators and before the grand jury, Wilson claimed that Brown had grabbed at Wilson's gun during the initial incident in the police car and that Brown's hand was on the firearm when it misfired at least once. Wilson also told police that he thought Brown would overpower him and shoot him with his own gun. “I was not in control of the gun,” Wilson said. Eventually he regained control of the weapon and fired from within the car.

Investigators could have helped to prove or disprove Wilson’s testimony by testing his service weapon for Brown’s fingerprints. But the gun was not tested for fingerprints. An investigator argued before the grand jury that the decision was made not to test the weapon because Wilson “never lost control of his gun.”

5. Wilson did not immediately turn his weapon over to investigators after killing Brown.

A detective with the St. Louis County Police Department, who conducted the first official interview of Wilson, testified to the grand jury that Wilson had packaged his own service weapon into an evidence envelope following his arrival at the police station in the wake of the shooting. The detective said the practice was not usual for his department, though he was unclear on the protocol of the Ferguson Police Department. He said he didn’t explore that aspect further at the time.

According to the detective’s testimony, standard practice for the St. Louis County Police Department would be for an officer involved in a shooting to keep his or her weapon holstered until it can be turned over to a supervisor and a crime scene unit detective. While that clearly didn’t take place in Wilson’s case, the detective also testified that he believed the firearm was handled in a way that preserved the chain of custody.

6. An initial interview with investigators was delayed while Wilson traveled to the hospital with his superiors.

The same St. Louis County Police Department detective also testified that while he had intended to conduct his initial interview with Wilson at the Ferguson police station, a lieutenant colonel with the Ferguson Police Department decided that Wilson first needed to go to the hospital for medical treatment. The detective said that while it is common practice to defer to any medical decision of this nature, Wilson appeared to be in good health and didn’t have any notable injuries that would have prevented an interview from being conducted at the station. Wilson would also testify that he didn’t believe he needed to go to the hospital.

But that day, Wilson got into a vehicle with the lieutenant colonel and another Ferguson police official and went to the hospital, while the St. Louis County detective traveled in another vehicle.

7. Wilson’s initial interview with the detective conflicts with information given in later testimony.

In his first interview with the detective, just hours after Brown’s death, Wilson didn’t claim to have any knowledge that Brown was suspected of stealing cigarillos from a nearby convenience store. The only mention of cigarillos he made to the detective was a recollection of the call about the theft that had come across his radio and that provided a description of the suspect.

Wilson also told the detective that Brown had passed something off to his friend before punching Wilson in the face. At the time, the detective said, Wilson didn’t know what the item was, referring to it only as “something.” In subsequent interviews and testimony, however, Wilson claimed that he knew Brown’s hands were full of cigarillos and that fact eventually led him to believe Brown may have been a suspect in the theft.

 

[GrandpaRox]

4 and a half minutes of silence in NY for Michael Brown? Are you ####### kidding me? Let me get this straight, if I want to be an immortalized hero in America all I have to do is rob a convenience sore, bully an old man, walk in the middle of the street, talk back to a cop, punch him, try to grab his gun, and then disobey his commands when he draws his gun and continue to walk towards him?And people have the nerve to mention this punk in the same sentence as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks. What a joke.

Um, Michael Brown is not being immortalized as a hero in America. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this one.

LOL. Dude, a crowd of about 2,000 people just stopped in front of the United Nations and observed a moment of silence "in his memory" for 4 and a half minutes!! That might be the longest moment of silence in history, at least since Borat. And do you not see all the people wearing Michael Brown shirts and hats? People are going to be naming their children after this piece of ####.

He is considered a victim. That is what the silence was for. He is not being recognized by anyone as a hero from what I have seen.

Brown is a victim, of what? He is was just another thug that got what he deserved.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

4 and a half minutes of silence in NY for Michael Brown? Are you ####### kidding me? Let me get this straight, if I want to be an immortalized hero in America all I have to do is rob a convenience sore, bully an old man, walk in the middle of the street, talk back to a cop, punch him, try to grab his gun, and then disobey his commands when he draws his gun and continue to walk towards him?And people have the nerve to mention this punk in the same sentence as Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks. What a joke.

Um, Michael Brown is not being immortalized as a hero in America. Maybe in a parallel universe, but not in this one.

LOL. Dude, a crowd of about 2,000 people just stopped in front of the United Nations and observed a moment of silence "in his memory" for 4 and a half minutes!! That might be the longest moment of silence in history, at least since Borat. And do you not see all the people wearing Michael Brown shirts and hats? People are going to be naming their children after this piece of ####.

He is considered a victim. That is what the silence was for. He is not being recognized by anyone as a hero from what I have seen.

Brown is a victim, of what? He is was just another thug that got what he deserved.

How's the weather over there in Saudi Arabia?

 

[jonessed]

We just had a grand jury decision based on all of the evidence, yet all of the evidence is back in dispute.

Is the coroner in on the conspiracy now? I can't keep track anymore.

 

[General Tso]

The 6 and 7 points from the write up from General Tso are really the main thing obviously. Seems like people can have all kinds of different ways to see that depending on what they want to see or what agenda they want to have. Some of the posters added some links supporting that the guy grabbed the gun as I was typing this.

They have to release all the accounts - the ones they used and the ones they tossed - right? Was this done yesterday?

The fact that this guy robbed a store moments before and they have video of that is pretty crazy.

You're not missing anything. It's insane that this is even an issue. It's like the country has gone mad and lost all common sense.The fact that people are debating whether he was shot at 30 feet or 45 feet is ridiculous. If you attack a cop, you get shot. And that applies whether you are black, white or purple. I'm not a big cop supporter by any means, but this is not the train you want to hitch yourself to. I'm still baffled at how so many people have found legitimate reason to protest this case. It's hurting the liberal cause!!!

 

[squistion]

Obviously I don't buy your version of events. This was an unarmed teenager shot 30-40 feet away according to witnesses. That qualifies as a victim to me. And the robbery is irrelevant to his shooting since it didn't appear that Wilson knew about it.

Officer Wilson knew what would happen if Brown got his hands on him again, hence the shooting.

All Brown needed to do was walk on the sidewalk and all this would have been averted.

Not surprising to me that you think that jaywalking deserves the death penalty.

 

[timschochet]

So based on the above article, we really don't know whether Brown tried to seize Wilson's gun or not. We really don't know how far the distance was between them when Wilson fatally shot Brown. For both of these, so far as I know, all we have is Wilson's testimony plus several unreliable witnesses who contradict each other. Many of you have simply bought into Wilson's claims without questioning them at all. Many of you have treated them as undisputable facts, and have used them to justify all or most of your thinking on this issue. And they may be what actually happened. But we don't know.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The 6 and 7 points from the write up from General Tso are really the main thing obviously. Seems like people can have all kinds of different ways to see that depending on what they want to see or what agenda they want to have. Some of the posters added some links supporting that the guy grabbed the gun as I was typing this.

They have to release all the accounts - the ones they used and the ones they tossed - right? Was this done yesterday?

The fact that this guy robbed a store moments before and they have video of that is pretty crazy.

You're not missing anything. It's insane that this is even an issue. It's like the country has gone mad and lost all common sense.The fact that people are debating whether he was shot at 30 feet or 45 feet is ridiculous. If you attack a cop, you get shot. And that applies whether you are black, white or purple. I'm not a big cop supporter by any means, but this is not the train you want to hitch yourself to. I'm still baffled at how so many people have found legitimate reason to protest this case. It's hurting the liberal cause!!!

No, this is the incorrect answer. You obviously don't understand use of force guidelines.