Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
tdoss
Footballguy
So...in order to keep the numbers equal...a cop must check the tally before acting.
Cop sees black man jaywalking...checks tally...nope, haven't ticketed a white guy lately...gonna have to let this one go.
This reminds me of that chick walking around getting catcalls in New York. The video was considered racist because it showed mostly black men approaching her and making comments. As if she were supposed to keep walking until she got enough footage to even it out or simply edit the video to show equal number of black men to white.
What the hell is wrong with people nowadays? Has logic simply died?
Cop sees black man jaywalking...checks tally...nope, haven't ticketed a white guy lately...gonna have to let this one go.
This reminds me of that chick walking around getting catcalls in New York. The video was considered racist because it showed mostly black men approaching her and making comments. As if she were supposed to keep walking until she got enough footage to even it out or simply edit the video to show equal number of black men to white.
What the hell is wrong with people nowadays? Has logic simply died?
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
I wonder what percentage of black arrests people think are not justified?
Jackstraw
Footballguy
How about they stopped and searched black motorists at a much higher rate even though whites were found with illegal stuff more often. How about sending racist emails on company time. How about repeated illegal searches and use of excessive force on black civilians? How about using misdeameanor ticketing as a de facto tax on the black community?
Logic alive and well?
Jack White
Footballguy
This.
Are there racist cops who target young black men?
Of course.
But the bigger issue has nothing to do with race. Plenty of incidents of police brutality involving non-white victims.
Jack White
Footballguy
Yep, hassling people and stealing their money is what cops do. That's their job, and they do it well.Slapdash said:
Jackstraw
Footballguy
That's either terribly ignorant or willfully obtuse. I'm sure there were white slaves somewhere in the world. Doesn't mean slavery had an equal impact on all races.
I suppose it depends on your time frame. 500 years ago slavery was probably a bigger issue for non-africans than africans.
Jack White
Footballguy
I don't follow you here.
I said nothing about slavery.
Also, I acknowledged that race is a factor for some cops.
Jack White
Footballguy
I don't know that any bull#### was proven. I'm not sure you can say the the DOJ vindicated Wilson, either.Hang 10 said:
More likely, it was a political decision.
It is cute, though, that you think the DOJ is the be-all end-all arbiter of "justice."
kentric
Footballguy
I find it interesting that people try to make arguments based on individual events. The two white guys in this case had shot up the store. This would likely indicate (didn't read the whole article as I didn't care) that the police knew they were using BB guns.
I believe there is predjudice in the way blacks are treated by the police forces (for the more part) relative to whites, but that argument can be supported by long-term statistical data. When someone brings up individual events and tries to tie it to other "similar" events, there is usually different circumstances.
Doug B
Footballguy
There can be no be-all end-all arbiter of "justice", if I'm following correctly. If >0 people think injustice was done, then there can never be justice, correct? IOW: essentially, whatever "justice" is ... it requires a virtually unanimous vote?
In any case of any kind between humans ... someone is always aggrieved. You can't bring people back to life, you can't even the score. You can't make things right.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I know, right? Can't we just put this pesky little "racist/power-abusing law enforcement" thing behind us? What's the big deal, people?
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Because not only there is no evidence that this is what happened, there is plenty of evidence, and eyewitnesses that prove it wasn't a "racist/power-abusing law enforcement" thing much to the disappointment of Holder who so badly wanted it to be?
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Only until some other deadbeat criminal gets his ### handed to him from those who protect and serve.
yak651
Footballguy
Already happening in WI after a nice young man assaulted a police officer and was shot and killed the other night
jonessed
Footballguy
The media attention on that one is odd. He was unarmed!
Obviously if you attack an officer and hit him in the head you are going to get shot.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
There is a ton of evidence that it has happened and continues to happen in Ferguson and elsewhere. Dismissing the outrage demonstrated at the Ferguson protests and around the country as being solely about Michael Brown is part of the problem- it's silly and counterproductive and people need to stop doing it IMO. It would be like if we decided not to worry about racism in public accommodations in the 50s and 60s because it turned out that that Rosa Parks actually didn't want to sit there anyway. This problem outgrew the facts of the Michael Brown incident months ago; sometimes it seems to me that the people who insist otherwise are doing so because they want to pretend the larger problem doesn't exist.
BTW there is evidence that it happened in the Michael Brown case, too. There's just other evidence that contradicts it.
Maybe because he wasn't vindicated. The DOJ declined to bring charges, that is not a vindication.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/04/politics/ferguson-darren-wilson-justice-department-report/
In a report released Wednesday, prosecutors said that "Wilson's actions do not constitute prosecutable violations" of federal civil rights law.
"There is no evidence upon which prosecutors can rely to disprove Wilson's stated subjective belief that he feared for his safety," the Justice Department report said.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
No evidence to bring charges is about as vindicated as it gets in these matters.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
There was no evidence Officer Wilson was a racist but that didn't stop the community from burning down their neighborhoods in protest that he was.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yes, that's what they did. They burned down their neighborhoods, and they did it because they were upset about Officer Wilson and nothing else. Well judged.
jonessed
Footballguy
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
No there isn't and I PROMISE you, just as Holder yelled promises to the screaming mob there would be justice in this case, that it would have been the whole topic of the investigation. Instead the whole investigation was turned towards profiling, using the cops as revenue producers (which I said was a big problem all over this city very early in this thread) and some racist e-mails.
Burn down your neighborhood if you are angry about racism if you think that is going to fix the problem. Don't forget to verbally assault thousands (and some physically) of innocent people to further your cause.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
If only they hated racism instead of spending their life savings opening a store in a neighborhood in that was being revitalized.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
It's obvious that Eric Holder is racist.
jonessed
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah. how dare the Department of Justice investigate something so trivial and silly as a stark pattern of racism and abuse of power in law enforcement? Why can't they stick to "vindicating" Darren Wilson and leave it at that? Look away, America! Nothing else to see here!
I'm sorry you were verbally assaulted by political protestors. It happens to me on occasion, as I mentioned before. It's not the worst thing that happens to me in any given day, but it's not particularly pleasant either. I'm also sorry that your beloved city is being made to look like Alabama in the 50s by the media and the public spotlight. That's not fair and I'm sure that sucks. If it's any consolation, it seems pretty clear by now that there are plenty of other St. Louises in this country that will probably take over the spotlight soon.
But condemning an entire race or even an entire protest movement (as you appear to be doing here) for the actions of a few people is not helpful. Nor is ignoring a much larger and more important problem simply because the facts of the incident that brought attention to the problem may not actually pertain to that problem. A problem is a problem, it doesn't matter why it was unearthed.
Last edited by a moderator:
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
It's always someone else's fault.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
The riots grew out of the protests and the police response to them. The protests were about all of it- the incident, how the incident fit into the larger framework of discrimination and abuse of power in that community, the horrifying police response to the initial protests and the media coverage of them, the way people like yourself respond to this complex dynamic and justifiable anger by reducing it to pithy nonsense ... it goes on and on. These are complicated problems.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Thank you, it does suck because it has been completely unfair the way the city, as a whole, not just Ferguson, has been portrayed. This isn't isolated to cities, entire States like Illinois for example, use the cops to collect revenue. The Governor backed off the previous quotas though a few months ago probably knowing this report was coming out. It's bull####.
The numbers the AG cited about Ferguson were completely without context too. He said something about arresting somebody for being on a sidewalk illegally. I'm willing to bet that this was during the riots and it wasn't somebody just strolling down the street on any given day. I don't think it's crazy that a city like Feguson, and many of the cities around St. Louis in that general area that use "safety" as a reason to hand out tickets to fund local government, are giving those tickets to the predominately black population in that area. This isn't exactly shocking. BELIEVE ME it isn't just black people pissed off about this.
However cops in the St. Louis area are not murdering blacks. There just isn't any evidence to back that up. If there was, you could bet Holder would have included it in his report. Don't stick that POS from (Georgia?) that asks the guy for his license then shoots him when he goes to retrieve it on St. Louis. The AG and race baiters were that absolutely 100% positive that a cop in Ferguson just decided to murder a black kid and incited the riots that followed can go #### themselves. It makes me sick all of the innocent people (MOSTLY BLACK!) that lost their businesses, their homes, all of us that lost a community, tough ####.
Last edited by a moderator:
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Oh come on, no they weren't. They were about the lie Johnson told that many others repeated that Wilson just blew him away in cold blood for no reason all the while Brown was yelling "DON'T SHOOT!!" with his hands high in the air.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
someone got shot???
msommer
Footballguy
Nope. The Arabs were quite active in the African slave market since they got ocean going vessels.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Arabs were equal opportunists in the slave market for over 1,000 years
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Initially, maybe. But the reason they spread like wildfire and people started traveling to join the protests and it became a national news story is because it fit a larger pattern of discrimination and abuse of power and lack of accountability in the city and elsewhere. And in any event, what does it matter? The protests and outrage have unearthed something truly terrible that needs to be fixed.
And frankly, can you even blame the people of Ferguson for reaching the decision they did? Have you read the DOJ report? If not, let John Oliver sum it up for you.
If law enforcement and the city government acted that ways towards your race or religion or whatever, you would assume the worst, and rightfully so. You'd be angry as hell, and rightfully so. And saying "Darren Wilson might actually have acted reasonably!" does nothing to change that. He's a part of an institution where racism is rampant and he shot an unarmed black kid. You expect those people to keep their cool and not rush to judgment in that context? Look how upset you got about people "verbally abusing" you ... and those are unarmed civilians. Blacks in Ferguson and elsewhere in the cityare being treated like garbage by armed officers of the law and other government officials.
If you can't maintain a level-headed attitude towards unarmed civilians who yell at you, how can you expect people to maintain a level-headed attitude towards armed government officials who are supposed to be protecting them, but instead are harassing and arresting them for completely innocent actions like driving or even just sitting in a parked car, or comparing them to dogs because dogs are also "unemployed, lazy, can't speak English and have no idea who their daddies are"?
HellToupee
Footballguy
I blame Big Mike
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I think it's just funny what people and the press focus on.
We've had a guy sat on and killed by a cop here in NO (outside a bar), we have had the cops take people off and burn them in their cars (Glover), shoot people including a mentally handicapped kid during a crisis with no reason (Danziger Bridge), we've had a kid shot while snooping around a house, we've had a police force taken over by the feds, years ago we had a crooked cop shoot up a Viet restaurant and kill everyone inside and then later they found bodies under her (yes, her) house, and there's corruption a mile deep to boot .... no one gives a sht outside NO, nope, not nationally.
And btw New Orleans is illustrative, because at least we have had black mayors and police chiefs and majority black councils where at least people can say they were represented, so yes you can blame the people of Ferguson because they are what 60-70% black and those folks can't muster more than a 10% turnout for elections? They have a white council and a white mayor and white police chief.... and they don't vote. There is ZERO excuse for that. Show up and exercise your rights in the ballot box. People have died for that, in wars and on bridges and not just in Selma.
Last edited by a moderator:
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Why blame the victims of rampant racism for not fighting back hard enough at the ballot box instead of, oh, I don't know, how about the racists? Doesn't that seem a little backwards to you? Sounds like victim-blaming to me.
By the way, perhaps part of the reason black people in that area are hesitant to take on positions in government/law enforcement is because when they do, they receive emails like this lovely sentiment sent from white cops in the St Louis PD to a black cop:
As far as New Orleans- I'm sorry that things suck so much down there. Feel free to take to the streets and protest and try to get the word out nationally. Id definitely support that. But things sucking in New Orleans doesn't mean it's somehow wrong or unfair to focus on things that suck in St Louis or Staten Island or Cleveland or Oakland or anywhere else.
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Please even Al Sharpton raised it... and he's right.
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/voter-registration-in-ferguson-called-disgusting/?_r=0
I'm sorry but racism in politics, in 2015, is a bar to participating by running or voting? Gary IN elected a black mayor in 1968. We've had a strong black electorate and political body since the early 1970s.
People in Ferguson were indeed intimidated.... against speaking for Wilson and telling a fair version of events. That's documented by the DOJ as well.
I have no problem with protestors. At least in Madison (very liberal town btw, and also very white) at least the protestors showed up at the state capitol. - But in your response you seem to glom together protests and riots. No it's not ok for that to happen. The people rioting and looting in Ferguson were by and large not victims. The people who owned the shops - often black and minorities themselves - are victims. If you've been victimized the last thing you do is go do unto others as has been done unto you, you sympathize, you don't punish others needlessly. These were people taking advantage of chaos and it's sad.
The point about the voting is that it's not like the people of Ferguson had no way out, they have a solution and it's totally up to them. If they show up on election day their government and police force can change overnight.
http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/08/19/voter-registration-in-ferguson-called-disgusting/?_r=0
I'm sorry but racism in politics, in 2015, is a bar to participating by running or voting? Gary IN elected a black mayor in 1968. We've had a strong black electorate and political body since the early 1970s.
People in Ferguson were indeed intimidated.... against speaking for Wilson and telling a fair version of events. That's documented by the DOJ as well.
I have no problem with protestors. At least in Madison (very liberal town btw, and also very white) at least the protestors showed up at the state capitol. - But in your response you seem to glom together protests and riots. No it's not ok for that to happen. The people rioting and looting in Ferguson were by and large not victims. The people who owned the shops - often black and minorities themselves - are victims. If you've been victimized the last thing you do is go do unto others as has been done unto you, you sympathize, you don't punish others needlessly. These were people taking advantage of chaos and it's sad.
The point about the voting is that it's not like the people of Ferguson had no way out, they have a solution and it's totally up to them. If they show up on election day their government and police force can change overnight.
Last edited by a moderator:
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I didn't say racism was a bar to voting, I said blaming black people for the racism of law enforcement and other government officials because they didn't vote enough is victim-blaming, because it is.
It's also a little odd that you call voting and getting more black representation a "solution" after highlighting the significant problems in New Orleans where they've "had black mayors and police chiefs and majority black councils where at least people can say they were represented/" Doesn't sound like a solution to me.
Also, I didn't "glom together protests and riots." I've been trying to separate the two throughout the thread, including just yesterday when I pointed out that SLB was condemning the actions of all protestors for the actions of a few rioters and people who verbally abused him. I've condemned the rioting throughout the thread over and over, I've posted links to and stories about crowdfunding efforts to rebuild the local businesses and donated money. But the rioting is a MUCH less significant problem than the systematic racism and injustice. Everyone agrees the rioting is bad, so how about if we move on to the much bigger (and ongoing) problem?
Last edited by a moderator:
Jack White
Footballguy
Elections don't change anything. Whether blacks, whites, browns, demoblicans or republicrats are elected, it doesn't change the fundamental nature of the state and its costumed enforcers.
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
