Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (2 Viewers)

[AhrnCityPahnder]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/44/44ba0f4db32605e0643595eba9fec342fa8803bbed24f6a1e5e9822a142e9e1d.jpg

 

[Gary Coal Man]

lets say Brown is involved in a Aggravated Robbery

Here are the still pictures of the store clerk being accosted by a man the Ferguson police department identified as Michael Brown. The police report of the robbery (which also mentions the subsequent fatal shooting) can also be found in this article:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/michael-brown-strong-arm-robbery-657032

 

[Todd Andrews]

Hmmm. They're showing still photos from a robbery that occurred that the officer was investigating. Seems Mike Brown is a suspect.

video to be released of robbery

Reading through this thread this am I kind of think everyone has been too far ahead in the timelines, who struggled with whom, when.

I think the key is the initial stop. Either the cop stopped these two kids for no reason (bad, very bad) or he had reasonable suspicion that one of them had engaged in some criminal activity.

In other instances, if a cop has reason to think that a suspect is violent, or sells drugs, or has committed some violent crime, then resisting arrest and trying to flee takes on a whole other aspect. It doesn't permit shooting someone in the back and killing them often, but still it's a whole other context.

If these kids were stopped for no good reason at all, then everything else that follows after that is practically a crime by the state.

He told them to get out of the street. He didnt stop them. When they said "were going right there" or the equivalent he backed up and opened his door into one of them.

Incredible.

If this is correct, the DOJ is going to be doing some digging into this police force and there is going to be some hell to pay.

That is the account from the other kid. It is partially corroborated by the other eyewitnesses saying they saw the cop holding Brown through the car window and struggling with him and then shooting him through the open window at point blank range while he held him.

But no one knows what really happened. I just dont believe the police officers account is any more credible than the other kid's and certainly not when a few different witnesses corroborate that the cop then got out of the car and shot Brown in the back as he ran away wounded, and then shot him multiple more times after he turned around with his hands up.

I believe after that, the cop knows he has to come up with a scenario to justify his actions and I dont think he is credible at that point.

 

[matttyl]

Getting bits and pieces from here and news radio. Are they saying that Brown is the primary suspect, or any suspect at all, in a store robbery?

 

[Todd Andrews]

It appears that the other kid has just admitted that Brown stole the cigars.

 

[squistion]

x

 

[Witz]

It appears that the other kid has just admitted that Brown stole the cigars.

I'm not going to post as it might be frowned upon (you can find it out there - check out Anon twitter), but there is a side by side photo of the individual robbing the store and Brown on the ground and it does appear to be the same person (you can specifically by the distinct shoes).

 

[tommyGunZ]

This is why you don't make a martyr out of someone before the facts come out.

Still likely, IMO, that excessive force was used. But the context is COMPLETELY different if the cops were legitimately pursuing a robbery suspect, as opposed to the narrative we've been fed the last week that Brown was an innocent kid minding his own business when cops targeted him for absolutely no reason.

 

[jamny]

Hmmm. They're showing still photos from a robbery that occurred that the officer was investigating. Seems Mike Brown is a suspect.

You're trying too hard.

If he was a suspect why did the cop drive up and tell him to get off the street, instead of just questioning him or taking him in?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Hmmm. They're showing still photos from a robbery that occurred that the officer was investigating. Seems Mike Brown is a suspect.

You're trying too hard.

If he was a suspect why did the cop drive up and tell him to get off the street, instead of just questioning him or taking him in?

Are we sure that's true? If anything, this new information should make us question every bit of the narrative we've been fed the last few days.

 

[Todd Andrews]

It appears that the other kid has just admitted that Brown stole the cigars.

I'm not going to post as it might be frowned upon (you can find it out there - check out Anon twitter), but there is a side by side photo of the individual robbing the store and Brown on the ground and it does appear to be the same person (you can specifically by the distinct shoes).

I saw that. Very strange. Lot's strange here: why do we find out only now about the store? And why no mention of this officer supposedly seeing the two suspects on the dispatch recordings? Color me skeptical that the cop thought they were the two suspects.

 

[Jim11]

It appears that the other kid has just admitted that Brown stole the cigars.

I'm not going to post as it might be frowned upon (you can find it out there - check out Anon twitter), but there is a side by side photo of the individual robbing the store and Brown on the ground and it does appear to be the same person (you can specifically by the distinct shoes).

I saw that. Very strange. Lot's strange here: why do we find out only now about the store? And why no mention of this officer supposedly seeing the two suspects on the dispatch recordings? Color me skeptical that the cop thought they were the two suspects.

Even if there was video of the thug attacking the cop, you'd still be skeptical, Todd.

 

[igbomb]

It appears that the other kid has just admitted that Brown stole the cigars.

I'm not going to post as it might be frowned upon (you can find it out there - check out Anon twitter), but there is a side by side photo of the individual robbing the store and Brown on the ground and it does appear to be the same person (you can specifically by the distinct shoes).

I saw that. Very strange. Lot's strange here: why do we find out only now about the store? And why no mention of this officer supposedly seeing the two suspects on the dispatch recordings? Color me skeptical that the cop thought they were the two suspects.

Even if there was video of the thug attacking the cop, you'd still be skeptical, Todd.

If the kid took a bullet to the back would you still defend the cop?

 

[urbanhack]

HEY THERE'S JIMM111 AND HIS CODE WORDS.

 

[Todd Andrews]

It appears that the other kid has just admitted that Brown stole the cigars.

I'm not going to post as it might be frowned upon (you can find it out there - check out Anon twitter), but there is a side by side photo of the individual robbing the store and Brown on the ground and it does appear to be the same person (you can specifically by the distinct shoes).

I saw that. Very strange. Lot's strange here: why do we find out only now about the store? And why no mention of this officer supposedly seeing the two suspects on the dispatch recordings? Color me skeptical that the cop thought they were the two suspects.

Even if there was video of the thug attacking the cop, you'd still be skeptical, Todd.

No I wouldnt. I just dont believe everything cops or the government tells me, unlike a government loving authority slobbering statist like you.

 

[Ghost Rider]

No I wouldnt. I just dont believe everything cops or the government tells me, unlike a government loving authority slobbering statist like you.

Have you seen the still photos from the robbery? Or the video that shows the victim and his friend (the key "witness") robbing the store?

This new information shows how dangerous it is to rush to judgment before knowing all of the facts.

And we STILL don't know all of the facts, but these new facts definitely put into question most of what we have been fed for the last 6 days.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

 

[Slapdash]

Great. Now it is time for everyone to come out of the woodwork and say he deserved to die because he was a criminal and probably was getting high. Just like Trayvon.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

I agree. There is still no excuse for the officer having used deadly force, but the narrative that Brown was just some poor innocent black kid whom the police were harassing for no reason is pretty much shot to ####.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

 

[johnnycakes]

Great. Now it is time for everyone to come out of the woodwork and say he deserved to die because he was a criminal and probably was getting high. Just like Trayvon.

Plus, he's black.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Great. Now it is time for everyone to come out of the woodwork and say he deserved to die because he was a criminal and probably was getting high. Just like Trayvon.

Yeah, this is the downside when folks on my side rush to make someone a martyr.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

That's great, but that's also not how people use that term in everyday English.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

The crime is listed as "robbery" on the police report.

 

[Witz]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

That's great, but that's also not how people use that term in everyday English.

I don't disagree with the second part of what Ivan said, but I think he's off base with the first part. By definition it definitely was a robbery (and with Brown having a good foot and close to 100 pounds on the store owner and grabbing him by the front and pushing him it's a little bit more than a kid running in a snatching a pack of gum and running out of the store).

 

[lod01]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

I agree. There is still no excuse for the officer having used deadly force, but the narrative that Brown was just some poor innocent black kid whom the police were harassing for no reason is pretty much shot to ####.

If you are a looter, do you now feel a little bit angry or lucky? You were fed a story, that in your mind, justified some looting. Now it appears you were duped. Or do you just go 'whew glad I looted before the truth came out, other wise I wouldn't own this shotgun and bicycle.'

 

[dickey moe]

Great. Now it is time for everyone to come out of the woodwork and say he deserved to die because he was a criminal and probably was getting high. Just like Trayvon.

I don't think many people are saying that, but even as tgunz admitted, it appears with a possible theft involved, the context has changed at least somewhat. It's not as simple as "a rogue cop had it out for this kid."

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

That's great, but that's also not how people use that term in everyday English.

You're complaining because you want people to stop using the correct definition?

Good work, boys

 

[roadkill1292]

How did that Martin-Zimmerman thread get resolved anyway? Did the FFA reach a consensus?

 

[dickey moe]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

That's great, but that's also not how people use that term in everyday English.

If most people assume you need an actual weapon in the commission of the act to be charged with a robbery, they'd be incorrect.

 

[jon_mx]

How did that Martin-Zimmerman thread get resolved anyway? Did the FFA reach a consensus?

Absolutely consensus was reached. Everyone agreed Tim was an idiot.

 

[lod01]

Just heard that Al crossed into Illinois and told his driver to 'Turn this motorcade the #### around'. 'Son of a #####!'

 

[dickey moe]

How did that Martin-Zimmerman thread get resolved anyway? Did the FFA reach a consensus?

60/40 tilted toward Zimmerman was legally justified, 100% that Zimmerman is still an #######

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Hmmm. They're showing still photos from a robbery that occurred that the officer was investigating. Seems Mike Brown is a suspect.

You're trying too hard.

If he was a suspect why did the cop drive up and tell him to get off the street, instead of just questioning him or taking him in?

Are we sure that's true? If anything, this new information should make us question every bit of the narrative we've been fed the last few days.

If witness statements are correct it is still quite a stretch to make.....Kid stole cigars so shooting him in the back and then executing him is justified.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

We should stop calling what the officer did a "shooting". It was more like a "tickle-fight".

 

[Mister Martie]

How did that Martin-Zimmerman thread get resolved anyway? Did the FFA reach a consensus?

I beleive the consensus was reached that it was the worst thread in FFA history.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

None of this changes my perception of this much at all. It doesn't change my belief that the veil of silence around the shooting fostered distrust of the police in the community. It doesn't change my belief that the police's response to crowd control was straight out of a banana republic. And it certainly hasn't changed my impression, based on the facts that have been shared, that there isn't (yet) any evidence to support the need to shoot the kid once he disengaged from the car.

 

[whitem0nkey]

the effort to discredit Mike Brown as a victim is clearly in full swing. The fact still remains & proven that Mike Brown was unarmed w/hands up & was shot multiple times.

How did Mike Brown rob in flip flops and die in sneakers?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

None of this changes my perception of this much at all. It doesn't change my belief that the veil of silence around the shooting fostered distrust of the police in the community. It doesn't change my belief that the police's response to crowd control was straight out of a banana republic. And it certainly hasn't changed my impression, based on the facts that have been shared, that there isn't (yet) any evidence to support the need to shoot the kid once he disengaged from the car.

But isn't this the problem? Everybody is reacting to an event that we really don't know much about?

 

[Limp Ditka]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

That's great, but that's also not how people use that term in everyday English.

It most certainly is.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

the effort to discredit Mike Brown as a victim is clearly in full swing. The fact still remains & proven that Mike Brown was unarmed w/hands up & was shot multiple times.

How did Mike Brown rob in flip flops and die in sneakers?

Probably stole the sneakers

 

[Rayderr]

This is why you don't make a martyr out of someone before the facts come out.

Still likely, IMO, that excessive force was used. But the context is COMPLETELY different if the cops were legitimately pursuing a robbery suspect, as opposed to the narrative we've been fed the last week that Brown was an innocent kid minding his own business when cops targeted him for absolutely no reason.

Yet he's still a martyr. Hell, they could show video of the Brown mugging an old lady, then taking a swing at the cop and pulling out his own gun, firing, but missing and then the cop using his gun to shoot Brown and people will still insist that Brown was a sweet innocent kid and the cop is an out of control racist.

 

[Courtjester]

Hmmm. They're showing still photos from a robbery that occurred that the officer was investigating. Seems Mike Brown is a suspect.

You're trying too hard.

If he was a suspect why did the cop drive up and tell him to get off the street, instead of just questioning him or taking him in?

Are we sure that's true? If anything, this new information should make us question every bit of the narrative we've been fed the last few days.

If witness statements are correct it is still quite a stretch to make.....Kid stole cigars so shooting him in the back and then executing him is justified.

I don't think anyone on here is saying that.

But if the robbery happened (and it is a robbery by clear definition) then in the last 12 hours we have gone from this huge civil rights issue and this rogue cop just randomly harrassing black people to a legitimate reason for police contact, a possible reason for the officer being concerned about officer safety because I am sure it came across his little cop computer as robbery suspect at large----now here is where it gets hazy and excessive force is used and I think the officer is in trouble for his actions.

Again not jumping to conclusions here, but we have been force fed this narative that Brown was this good kid, who just wanted to better himself and was going to college to now we may have a guy robbing people and off to smoke drugs (I make that assumption because most people don't use Swishers for anything but that).

Did he deserve to die for that? No, but the script has changed and we can see why this investigation wasn't just as cut and dry as so many thought.

 

[ArbyMelt]

the effort to discredit Mike Brown as a victim is clearly in full swing. The fact still remains & proven that Mike Brown was unarmed w/hands up & was shot multiple times.

How did Mike Brown rob in flip flops and die in sneakers?

does it matter? that msnbc article linked above says that Dorian's lawyer told MSNBC that Dorian told police that Brown did commit that "robbery".

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

None of this changes my perception of this much at all. It doesn't change my belief that the veil of silence around the shooting fostered distrust of the police in the community. It doesn't change my belief that the police's response to crowd control was straight out of a banana republic. And it certainly hasn't changed my impression, based on the facts that have been shared, that there isn't (yet) any evidence to support the need to shoot the kid once he disengaged from the car.

But isn't this the problem? Everybody is reacting to an event that we really don't know much about?

People are reacting to a number of events. Yes, some people are reacting to a police shooting. Others are reacting to a lack of transparency about the police shooting. Others are reacting to the police response to protests (and yes some looting) about the police shooting and (the lack of transparency concerning it).

When an unarmed teenager is shot dead by the cops, it doesn't cut it to say "hey everybody, wait for the full story." Because the people in that community are going to (understandably, IMO) perceive that you're more worried about covering the department's ### than responding to the incident.

 

[jonessed]

Can we stop referring to this as a "robbery," as if he pistol-whipped the cashier and emptied out the register? The guy apparently stole some cigars. That's more akin to shoplifting. Yeah, I understand he shoved the cashier, but come on.

This new information does make me doubt that the officer really just harassed the Brown and his friend for walking down the street, but it doesn't even come remotely close to justifying the shooting.

Not sure about Missouri but..."Under California Penal Code section 211, a person is guilty of committing the crime of Robbery when they take the property of another by means of force or fear. In 1983, the California Court of Appeal found in the case of People v. Estes (1983) 147 Cal.App.3d 23 , 194 Cal.Rptr. 909, that a shoplifter is guilty of the crime of robbery if they use force or fear to escape a store after the taking of the property. "

That's great, but that's also not how people use that term in everyday English.

It most certainly is.

Yeah, this is bit of an odd angle from Ivan. I don't understand where he was trying to go with this.

 

[fatness]

More information

The report also said Brown and a second man identified as Dorian Jones, 22, entered the store. It said information from surveillance cameras, a clerk and a patron in the store, whose names were redacted, indicated that Brown told a clerk he wanted cigars.

Brown then grabbed a box of cigars and turned to leave, the report said. When someone came out from behind the counter to confront him, Brown “forcefully pushed him back into a display rack” and left the store with Johnson, it said. It was accompanied by photographs taken from the video surveillance that showed a large man in a red baseball cap towering over a smaller man in an apparent altercation inside the store.


Jackson described this timeline before the shooting:

Police received a call at 11:51 a.m. on Aug. 9 of a “strong-arm” robbery at an area convenience store. A box of cigars had been stolen, according to the police report.

One minute later, police were given details of the suspects. Jackson did not provide those details to reporters.

Wilson responded to the call. He encountered Brown at 12:01 p.m.

Within minutes, Brown was dead and Ferguson was engulfed in turmoil that grew as police, citing fears for the officer’s security, withheld his name from the public.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-fergsuon-shooting-police-name-20140815-story.html

 

[Fennis]

I'm glad I live in a neighborhood where cops don't shoot kids who steal $50 worth of anything.

 

[whitem0nkey]

the effort to discredit Mike Brown as a victim is clearly in full swing. The fact still remains & proven that Mike Brown was unarmed w/hands up & was shot multiple times.

How did Mike Brown rob in flip flops and die in sneakers?

does it matter? that msnbc article linked above says that Dorian's lawyer told MSNBC that Dorian told police that Brown did commit that "robbery".

good point, It reminds me of when Winona Ryder stole and then it legitimatized her murder.

 

[lod01]

Anyone have a map of where this store is and where he was shot? The timeline is only 10 minutes apart. He should have had the cigars and the baseball cap on I would think unless the other kid had the cigars.

I ask because it seems the family thinks the police are basically making it up as they go.

He also couldn't have switched from flip flops to tennis shoes. (it looks to me that he has flip flops on in the pictures of him laying on the ground).