Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[Todem]

Todem made the point that CNN is focusing too much on the violent protests rather than the peaceful ones. That made me wonder: suppose there were no rioting, no looting, no violence. Suppose all of the protests were totally peaceful.

Would this still be a national story?

No it wouldn't.

 

[Slapdash]

Todem made the point that CNN is focusing too much on the violent protests rather than the peaceful ones. That made me wonder: suppose there were no rioting, no looting, no violence. Suppose all of the protests were totally peaceful.

Would this still be a national story?

It'd be just another dead black guy. The real issue here is the looting.

 

[mr roboto]

Todem made the point that CNN is focusing too much on the violent protests rather than the peaceful ones. That made me wonder: suppose there were no rioting, no looting, no violence. Suppose all of the protests were totally peaceful.

Would this still be a national story?

Yes but barely. Footnote on 24 hour cable news IMO.

 

[Slapdash]

John Oliver gives his take

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHIatS36A

Awesome

 

[Road Warriors]

He is probably victim to that petty theft a lot and didn't think it was a big deal. Hence, he didn't call 911. Whomever did over reacted. The police didn't care either until they connected the dots of the proximity of the location and the description of the guy. Then they got a warrant and the video for pure PR. Police aren't normally getting a warrant to view a video for stolen swisher sweets and a guy getting pushed without injuries or even falling down.

It's overreacting to call the cops when your pizza isn't delievered on time. It's not overreacting to call the cops after witnessing blatant theft and a store proprietor being manhandled by a much larger guy.

If people simply allowed such instances to occur because calling the police would be overreating then more of those instances would occur and the area would quickly devolve into a craphole.

Do we know that a theft occurred?

I don't think we know, and I don't think it matters.

Yes we do. It was called in by a customer in the store.

Yes it does matter. it shows the state of mind of this guy. Shoved the store clerk. Officer's account is he was also shoved, possibly punched in the car and then taunted by this guy before he was rushed (officers officer's wife's friend's account).

Fixed that for ya

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Jake Tapper gets it

"There is no threat going on here ... none ... that merits this"

At that point, sure. An hour later, it was absolutely necessary.

FWIW, I am fine with the guys on the ground in gear with batons and non-lethals. I do, however have a problem with the enormous military vehicles with mounted turrets on top.

And this is the problem, as it has been for over a week. The police have been responsible for the escalation of tensions every step of the way. They treat people like animals and Ferguson like a war zone well before it is necessary to do so.

Let me ask you this, do you believe that there would be no more rioting/looting, if the police were not present? You truly believe that all protests would be peaceful and there would be fewer incidents?

And, I was watching live last night. The police were in completely defensive positions until bottles and other items were thrown at them. At that point, they reacted with tear gas and flash bombs. The police did not escalate the situation. If you think their mere presence was enough escalation, then we will agree to disagree.

I think the presence of the police has saved numerous businesses , private property and lives.

Yes...In fact I think that is what the good tax paying citizens expect and deserve.

 

[Henry Ford]

There's a lot we don't know about the killing, but there's a lot we do know.

Total BS.

"Are you tracking with me? Beyond zero eyewitnesses saying that he ran full speed at the fully armed officer, facts show he didn't."

Ok, right. Just make #### up buddy. Totally ignore the best eyewitness account. The one immediately after the incident. What a pile of #### this loser is.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2727321/Conversation-recorded-bystander-just-moments-Michael-Brown-shooting-casts-doubt-claims-teen-surrendered-Officer-Darren-Wilson.html

Instead of Brown being fired on while his hands were raised in surrender, the witness claims that Brown was moving towards the officer when he was shot.

While this version of events does not match most of the eyewitness accounts, it does seem to tally up in a small part with the account of what occurred given by a friend of Wilson.

I'm not saying there is no such account or anything, but you'd do well to link to something other than a tabloid in times like these.

 

[avoiding injuries]

He is probably victim to that petty theft a lot and didn't think it was a big deal. Hence, he didn't call 911. Whomever did over reacted. The police didn't care either until they connected the dots of the proximity of the location and the description of the guy. Then they got a warrant and the video for pure PR. Police aren't normally getting a warrant to view a video for stolen swisher sweets and a guy getting pushed without injuries or even falling down.

It's overreacting to call the cops when your pizza isn't delievered on time. It's not overreacting to call the cops after witnessing blatant theft and a store proprietor being manhandled by a much larger guy.

If people simply allowed such instances to occur because calling the police would be overreating then more of those instances would occur and the area would quickly devolve into a craphole.

A box of cigars and a push is a 911 emergency? If the person who owns the store and/or was pushed doesn't call, then it is probably not a big deal. Regardless, the larger point was/is that no police force is getting a warrant for that surveillance video to conduct an investigation into such an incident. It was only after they realized who could have been on that video that it was seeked out and then released to purely shift the focus from the police themselves. People focusing on this incident are just grasping for some way to place blame on the dead black guy who wasn't a perfect person. So what? He deserved shot 6 times and left in the street for 4+ hours. You guys are ridiculous.

Why would the store owner call 911 knowing someone else had already done so. Maybe this is the auto accident scenario. The incident happens, 911 needs to be called, a helpful good Samaritan does so. that doesn't indicate that the victim would not have done so, or that it did not need to be done, just that it has already been done. Police forces obtain warrants for store video all the time, all the time. Generally they do not have to, but still, the amount of times they do is such that the matter is routine. That is not to dispute your ultimate conclusion, which may be correct, it is just to say that your conclusion is based on a faulty premise. Still speak on.

I honestly don't know - but I have a hard time imagining a minimart store owner dialing 911 over what amounts to shoplifting. Will he call the police (not using 911) for routine shoplifting? Maybe. But I suspect, unless Brown has a habit of doing this, this is sort of the cost of doing business, and is not reported in most cases. If you get a habitual offender, sure, I can see calling the police - but I imagine that the police would not give much time to a shoplifting case.

I see we have reached the point of ludicrocity. Questioning the store owner if they call 911 for a theft in their store and shoving someone as they leave? Cost of doing business?

What sensible person would do this and not expect to have the police called? The attempt of justification here is absurd.

 

[Henry Ford]

Top 10 posters in this thread:

Henry Ford 107

SaintsInDome2006 100

timschochet 99

jonessed 81

TobiasFunke 80

Greggity 76

Todd Andrews 74

lod01 72

Gary Coal Man 63

Fennis 61

I ask this because I don't know. I'm not trying to make any sort of point. Is this list largely conservative or liberal? Depending on your answer, is this a relevant or pointless question?

Looks like some of each. I think on this issue I, Tobias, Todd, and Fennis come off on the liberal end of the spectrum. Though by the same token, I think almost everyone on that list has, at times, chucked aside the bias and said that we just don't know enough to know for sure what happened.

 

[BigJohn]

He is probably victim to that petty theft a lot and didn't think it was a big deal. Hence, he didn't call 911. Whomever did over reacted. The police didn't care either until they connected the dots of the proximity of the location and the description of the guy. Then they got a warrant and the video for pure PR. Police aren't normally getting a warrant to view a video for stolen swisher sweets and a guy getting pushed without injuries or even falling down.

It's overreacting to call the cops when your pizza isn't delievered on time. It's not overreacting to call the cops after witnessing blatant theft and a store proprietor being manhandled by a much larger guy.

If people simply allowed such instances to occur because calling the police would be overreating then more of those instances would occur and the area would quickly devolve into a craphole.

A box of cigars and a push is a 911 emergency? If the person who owns the store and/or was pushed doesn't call, then it is probably not a big deal. Regardless, the larger point was/is that no police force is getting a warrant for that surveillance video to conduct an investigation into such an incident. It was only after they realized who could have been on that video that it was seeked out and then released to purely shift the focus from the police themselves. People focusing on this incident are just grasping for some way to place blame on the dead black guy who wasn't a perfect person. So what? He deserved shot 6 times and left in the street for 4+ hours. You guys are ridiculous.

Why would the store owner call 911 knowing someone else had already done so. Maybe this is the auto accident scenario. The incident happens, 911 needs to be called, a helpful good Samaritan does so. that doesn't indicate that the victim would not have done so, or that it did not need to be done, just that it has already been done. Police forces obtain warrants for store video all the time, all the time. Generally they do not have to, but still, the amount of times they do is such that the matter is routine. That is not to dispute your ultimate conclusion, which may be correct, it is just to say that your conclusion is based on a faulty premise. Still speak on.

I honestly don't know - but I have a hard time imagining a minimart store owner dialing 911 over what amounts to shoplifting. Will he call the police (not using 911) for routine shoplifting? Maybe. But I suspect, unless Brown has a habit of doing this, this is sort of the cost of doing business, and is not reported in most cases. If you get a habitual offender, sure, I can see calling the police - but I imagine that the police would not give much time to a shoplifting case.

I see we have reached the point of ludicrocity.Questioning the store owner if they call 911 for a theft in their store and shoving someone as they leave? Cost of doing business?

What sensible person would do this and not expect to have the police called? The attempt of justification here is absurd.

This may send things off on a tangent, but I am wondering if this has happened before, or is maybe even a normal occurrence. He doesn't report it, in fear of retaliation.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I don't see why this should be a partisan issue. I mean, I get why it is for some, but I know some conservatives who are really outraged by this and some liberals who want to wait and see what the investigation reveals while really biting their tongues about the looting/rioting, so it's not so simple. I've watched a little bit of all of the major news networks on cable and Fox and CNN have both been mostly pretty even-keeled about it, from what I have seen. MSNBC is predictably playing up the race angle, while making it seem like the police can do no right no matter what, but that is kind of what many of us expect from them.

 

[avoiding injuries]

He is probably victim to that petty theft a lot and didn't think it was a big deal. Hence, he didn't call 911. Whomever did over reacted. The police didn't care either until they connected the dots of the proximity of the location and the description of the guy. Then they got a warrant and the video for pure PR. Police aren't normally getting a warrant to view a video for stolen swisher sweets and a guy getting pushed without injuries or even falling down.

It's overreacting to call the cops when your pizza isn't delievered on time. It's not overreacting to call the cops after witnessing blatant theft and a store proprietor being manhandled by a much larger guy.

If people simply allowed such instances to occur because calling the police would be overreating then more of those instances would occur and the area would quickly devolve into a craphole.

A box of cigars and a push is a 911 emergency? If the person who owns the store and/or was pushed doesn't call, then it is probably not a big deal. Regardless, the larger point was/is that no police force is getting a warrant for that surveillance video to conduct an investigation into such an incident. It was only after they realized who could have been on that video that it was seeked out and then released to purely shift the focus from the police themselves. People focusing on this incident are just grasping for some way to place blame on the dead black guy who wasn't a perfect person. So what? He deserved shot 6 times and left in the street for 4+ hours. You guys are ridiculous.

Why would the store owner call 911 knowing someone else had already done so. Maybe this is the auto accident scenario. The incident happens, 911 needs to be called, a helpful good Samaritan does so. that doesn't indicate that the victim would not have done so, or that it did not need to be done, just that it has already been done. Police forces obtain warrants for store video all the time, all the time. Generally they do not have to, but still, the amount of times they do is such that the matter is routine. That is not to dispute your ultimate conclusion, which may be correct, it is just to say that your conclusion is based on a faulty premise. Still speak on.

I honestly don't know - but I have a hard time imagining a minimart store owner dialing 911 over what amounts to shoplifting. Will he call the police (not using 911) for routine shoplifting? Maybe. But I suspect, unless Brown has a habit of doing this, this is sort of the cost of doing business, and is not reported in most cases. If you get a habitual offender, sure, I can see calling the police - but I imagine that the police would not give much time to a shoplifting case.

I see we have reached the point of ludicrocity.Questioning the store owner if they call 911 for a theft in their store and shoving someone as they leave? Cost of doing business?

What sensible person would do this and not expect to have the police called? The attempt of justification here is absurd.

This may send things off on a tangent, but I am wondering if this has happened before, or is maybe even a normal occurrence. He doesn't report it, in fear of retaliation.

Maybe, but he has every right to report it. Fear of retaliation is certainly the reason for denying making the phone call or willingly sharing the video with police. Who could blame them?

 

[Henry Ford]

He is probably victim to that petty theft a lot and didn't think it was a big deal. Hence, he didn't call 911. Whomever did over reacted. The police didn't care either until they connected the dots of the proximity of the location and the description of the guy. Then they got a warrant and the video for pure PR. Police aren't normally getting a warrant to view a video for stolen swisher sweets and a guy getting pushed without injuries or even falling down.

It's overreacting to call the cops when your pizza isn't delievered on time. It's not overreacting to call the cops after witnessing blatant theft and a store proprietor being manhandled by a much larger guy.

If people simply allowed such instances to occur because calling the police would be overreating then more of those instances would occur and the area would quickly devolve into a craphole.

A box of cigars and a push is a 911 emergency? If the person who owns the store and/or was pushed doesn't call, then it is probably not a big deal. Regardless, the larger point was/is that no police force is getting a warrant for that surveillance video to conduct an investigation into such an incident. It was only after they realized who could have been on that video that it was seeked out and then released to purely shift the focus from the police themselves. People focusing on this incident are just grasping for some way to place blame on the dead black guy who wasn't a perfect person. So what? He deserved shot 6 times and left in the street for 4+ hours. You guys are ridiculous.

Why would the store owner call 911 knowing someone else had already done so. Maybe this is the auto accident scenario. The incident happens, 911 needs to be called, a helpful good Samaritan does so. that doesn't indicate that the victim would not have done so, or that it did not need to be done, just that it has already been done. Police forces obtain warrants for store video all the time, all the time. Generally they do not have to, but still, the amount of times they do is such that the matter is routine. That is not to dispute your ultimate conclusion, which may be correct, it is just to say that your conclusion is based on a faulty premise. Still speak on.

I honestly don't know - but I have a hard time imagining a minimart store owner dialing 911 over what amounts to shoplifting. Will he call the police (not using 911) for routine shoplifting? Maybe. But I suspect, unless Brown has a habit of doing this, this is sort of the cost of doing business, and is not reported in most cases. If you get a habitual offender, sure, I can see calling the police - but I imagine that the police would not give much time to a shoplifting case.

I see we have reached the point of ludicrocity.Questioning the store owner if they call 911 for a theft in their store and shoving someone as they leave? Cost of doing business?

What sensible person would do this and not expect to have the police called? The attempt of justification here is absurd.

This may send things off on a tangent, but I am wondering if this has happened before, or is maybe even a normal occurrence. He doesn't report it, in fear of retaliation.

His attorney's statement does say that almost all the customers are regulars, and he knows them. There's a pretty good chance he knew Brown.

Maybe he was afraid of retaliation, maybe he knew the parents and would get them to pay for it, maybe he was paying protection money to a gang Brown was in. Tough to say without a statement from the owner.

 

[kentric]

This woman is an eyewitness who seems to have witnessed almost the entire incident.

I'm curious as to why she waited until after the autopsy (which she references). I heard her reason, but not buying it. Interesting that she doesn't mention the raising of his hands in surrender. What I found most interesting though was her explanation of the guilt of the shooter and how he was pacing next to the body.

 

[Fennis]

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5560/14735027870_15cb7ac6af.jpg

 

[Gary Coal Man]

This may send things off on a tangent, but I am wondering if this has happened before, or is maybe even a normal occurrence. He doesn't report it, in fear of retaliation.

“Snitches Get Stitches” message spray painted on burned-out QuikTrip

 

[Sinn Fein]

I see we have reached the point of ludicrocity.Questioning the store owner if they call 911 for a theft in their store and shoving someone as they leave? Cost of doing business?

What sensible person would do this and not expect to have the police called? The attempt of justification here is absurd.

I think the evidence shows the store owner did not call 911. I doubt that most of these minimarts call 911 every time there is shoplifting. Yes, sadly, shoplifting is a cost of doing business for almost all retail establishments. Not suggesting that anyone likes that cost, or that stores do not try to reduce or eliminate it - but the reality is that almost all retail establishments will have to write off a percentage of their inventory due to theft.

I am not sure why you think I am trying to justify here. I don't think the store owner would call 911 over a small unarmed theft - the evidence shows that in this case the owner did not call 911. I am fairly certain that the police in this case were not aware of the incident so it has no impact on the shooting - despite those that are trying to argue that Brown would be predisposed to bull rushing a cop after walking away from him because he was afraid the cop was going to bust him for misdemeanor larceny even though we know the cop could not have brought it up in the initial confrontation.

This entire issue is just a sideshow imo.

 

[tom22406]

I caught an interview that Laura Ingraham did with a store owner from Ferguson(Butcher shop I believe)and he was saying his business got looted twice the first two nights and they basically took or destroyed everything they had inside.He even confronted one of the looters inside his store with a weapon and told the looter to drop everything and leave and he did.

The kicker here is that the owner knew the Brown family and also knew Michael very well.The family came around the next day to help him clean up the store while grieving the loss and he was back in business a few days after.Great gesture!

 

[rct]

Todem made the point that CNN is focusing too much on the violent protests rather than the peaceful ones. That made me wonder: suppose there were no rioting, no looting, no violence. Suppose all of the protests were totally peaceful.

Would this still be a national story?

Not completely analogous, but there was no rioting, looting or violence in Florida over the Trayvon Martin situation before Zimmerman was charged and that was still considered a national story, although certainly not in the same league as this one.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

This may send things off on a tangent, but I am wondering if this has happened before, or is maybe even a normal occurrence. He doesn't report it, in fear of retaliation.

“Snitches Get Stitches” message spray painted on burned-out QuikTrip

Yet ,the police are so out of line with their military style approach.

 

[Fat Nick]

I caught an interview that Laura Ingraham did with a store owner from Ferguson(Butcher shop I believe)and he was saying his business got looted twice the first two nights and they basically took or destroyed everything they had inside.He even confronted one of the looters inside his store with a weapon and told the looter to drop everything and leave and he did.

The kicker here is that the owner knew the Brown family and also knew Michael very well.The family came around the next day to help him clean up the store while grieving the loss and he was back in business a few days after.Great gesture!

I didn't catch this directly, but this just reeks of glorification by somebody...So...a few days after their son/brother/relative was murdered, and in the midst of the chaos associated with what happened, they took time to help somebody clean up a store that was looted?

Again, it could 100% be...but it just seems like a bit of a stretch. People don't usually have lots of extra time when they're the focal point of these kinds of things.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Tear gas is classified as a chemical weapon and cannot be used in warfare, but it can be used against American citizens who are exercising their Constitutional right to peacefully assemble. Neat-o.

Why would you not be "allowed" to use tear gas in a war? If I was a soldier, I would much rather be tear gassed than shot.

It is a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention (signed in 93, in force in 97)

 

[kentric]

If the store didnt report a theft, how can there be charges or a suspect?

According to the stores attorney, the owners were bewildered when the police approached them demanding the surveillance tapes.

Could be because they weren't aware that the guy who pushed the employee was the one who was shot.

 

[tom22406]

I caught an interview that Laura Ingraham did with a store owner from Ferguson(Butcher shop I believe)and he was saying his business got looted twice the first two nights and they basically took or destroyed everything they had inside.He even confronted one of the looters inside his store with a weapon and told the looter to drop everything and leave and he did.

The kicker here is that the owner knew the Brown family and also knew Michael very well.The family came around the next day to help him clean up the store while grieving the loss and he was back in business a few days after.Great gesture!

I didn't catch this directly, but this just reeks of glorification by somebody...So...a few days after their son/brother/relative was murdered, and in the midst of the chaos associated with what happened, they took time to help somebody clean up a store that was looted?

Again, it could 100% be...but it just seems like a bit of a stretch. People don't usually have lots of extra time when they're the focal point of these kinds of things.

He was a friend of the family and some family members stopped by to help him out

 

[Hooper31]

Top 10 posters in this thread:

Henry Ford 107

SaintsInDome2006 100

timschochet 99

jonessed 81

TobiasFunke 80

Greggity 76

Todd Andrews 74

lod01 72

Gary Coal Man 63

Fennis 61

I ask this because I don't know. I'm not trying to make any sort of point. Is this list largely conservative or liberal? Depending on your answer, is this a relevant or pointless question?

Looks like some of each. I think on this issue I, Tobias, Todd, and Fennis come off on the liberal end of the spectrum. Though by the same token, I think almost everyone on that list has, at times, chucked aside the bias and said that we just don't know enough to know for sure what happened.

Thanks. Appreciate the perspective.

 

[Fat Nick]

I caught an interview that Laura Ingraham did with a store owner from Ferguson(Butcher shop I believe)and he was saying his business got looted twice the first two nights and they basically took or destroyed everything they had inside.He even confronted one of the looters inside his store with a weapon and told the looter to drop everything and leave and he did.

The kicker here is that the owner knew the Brown family and also knew Michael very well.The family came around the next day to help him clean up the store while grieving the loss and he was back in business a few days after.Great gesture!

I didn't catch this directly, but this just reeks of glorification by somebody...So...a few days after their son/brother/relative was murdered, and in the midst of the chaos associated with what happened, they took time to help somebody clean up a store that was looted?

Again, it could 100% be...but it just seems like a bit of a stretch. People don't usually have lots of extra time when they're the focal point of these kinds of things.

He was a friend of the family and some family members stopped by to help him out

I guess "family memebers" is kind of broad, so I could see some cousins or something.

 

[kentric]

That CNN call from the friend was simply chilling if it is true. You sill would feel terrible for the parents here but it sounds like this young man was not exactly acting like a model citizen at the time or just prior to this incident unfolding.

What a mess.

a lot of he said she said.....im believing the eye witnesses until proven otherwise ( a woman who video taped the aftermath and saw the shooting unfold )

Which eyewitness. There were a number including one on the video in the background where he said Brown was rushing the cop. Although I'm not sure of the admissability of that in court.

 

[tom22406]

I caught an interview that Laura Ingraham did with a store owner from Ferguson(Butcher shop I believe)and he was saying his business got looted twice the first two nights and they basically took or destroyed everything they had inside.He even confronted one of the looters inside his store with a weapon and told the looter to drop everything and leave and he did.

The kicker here is that the owner knew the Brown family and also knew Michael very well.The family came around the next day to help him clean up the store while grieving the loss and he was back in business a few days after.Great gesture!

I didn't catch this directly, but this just reeks of glorification by somebody...So...a few days after their son/brother/relative was murdered, and in the midst of the chaos associated with what happened, they took time to help somebody clean up a store that was looted?

Again, it could 100% be...but it just seems like a bit of a stretch. People don't usually have lots of extra time when they're the focal point of these kinds of things.

He was a friend of the family and some family members stopped by to help him out

I guess "family memebers" is kind of broad, so I could see some cousins or something.

I'm glad you approve

 

[BigJohn]

I caught an interview that Laura Ingraham did with a store owner from Ferguson(Butcher shop I believe)and he was saying his business got looted twice the first two nights and they basically took or destroyed everything they had inside.He even confronted one of the looters inside his store with a weapon and told the looter to drop everything and leave and he did.

The kicker here is that the owner knew the Brown family and also knew Michael very well.The family came around the next day to help him clean up the store while grieving the loss and he was back in business a few days after.Great gesture!

Terrific story. Goes to show that these looters have no interest in the actual issues. Only desire is to pillage as much as they can, as quickly as they can. They are the animals, not the majority of people on the streets in Ferguson.

 

[Jim11]

OK so the Owner of the store doesn't want to be involved. He didn't call 911. Fine. All I would like him to do is answer one VERY SIMPLE question:

"Were you robbed by Michael Brown, as the video seems to show? Yes or no?"

How hard is that to answer???

I would like Darren Wilson to answer one VERY SIMPLE question:

"Did you shoot Michael Brown after he surrendered? Yes or no?"

How hard is that to answer???

When did Mr. Brown surrender?

I didn't ask you the question.

IOW, he didn't. Thanks for playing.

Why are you wasting your time posting on a message board, shouldn't you be talking to the FBI? Obviously you were a witness to this shooting.

Can I keep playing?

IOW, he didn't.

 

[jonessed]

I'm curious as to what some of you think the purpose of 911 actually is.

Operator: "911, whats your emergency?"

Is shoplifting, or even petty theft, an "emergency"?

I imagine most minimarts/convenience stores deal with shoplifters on a regular basis. Surprisingly, police departments have non-emergency numbers to call if you want to report a crime.

We always call 911 for shoplifters. A non-emergency number would make sense. Not sure if it's the same everywhere, but here in Omaha, when you call 911, the first thing they ask is "is this a Police, or Fire Emergency?"

The video clearly shows a robbery and an assault. If people want to be obtuse about it there isn't much you can do.

There is a discussion to be had over the relevance to the shooting, but the actual robbery is right in the video. Trying to pretend it's something other than what everyone can see is moronic.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Top 10 posters in this thread:

Henry Ford 107

SaintsInDome2006 100

timschochet 99

jonessed 81

TobiasFunke 80

Greggity 76

Todd Andrews 74

lod01 72

Gary Coal Man 63

Fennis 61

I ask this because I don't know. I'm not trying to make any sort of point. Is this list largely conservative or liberal? Depending on your answer, is this a relevant or pointless question?

Looks like some of each. I think on this issue I, Tobias, Todd, and Fennis come off on the liberal end of the spectrum. Though by the same token, I think almost everyone on that list has, at times, chucked aside the bias and said that we just don't know enough to know for sure what happened.

Thanks. Appreciate the perspective.

My perspective: I think it's weird that most of the focus is on the guilt or innocence of the officer. I think the gross misconduct of the police department here is the real story. It's appalling. Libertarians and similarly minded small government activists should be outraged. Rand Paul aside (and I give him credit for speaking up), their silence and hypocrisy is deafening.

 

[Bonzai]

That CNN call from the friend was simply chilling if it is true. You sill would feel terrible for the parents here but it sounds like this young man was not exactly acting like a model citizen at the time or just prior to this incident unfolding.

What a mess.

a lot of he said she said.....im believing the eye witnesses until proven otherwise ( a woman who video taped the aftermath and saw the shooting unfold )

Which eyewitness. There were a number including one on the video in the background where he said Brown was rushing the cop. Although I'm not sure of the admissability of that in court.

Link?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Are the protesters still bringing their children with them?

 

[Jim11]

Inconvenient truth.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/report-more-than-a-dozen-witnesses-have-corroborated-officer-darren-wilsons-version-of-ferguson-shooting/

More than a dozen witnesses have backed up the account of Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in the controversial shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown, police sources reportedly told St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter Christine Byers.

Byers also reported on Monday that Brown’s body was transported from the county medical examiner to a funeral home and then back to the medical examiner for three autopsies.

 

[jonessed]

Top 10 posters in this thread:

Henry Ford 107

SaintsInDome2006 100

timschochet 99

jonessed 81

TobiasFunke 80

Greggity 76

Todd Andrews 74

lod01 72

Gary Coal Man 63

Fennis 61

I ask this because I don't know. I'm not trying to make any sort of point. Is this list largely conservative or liberal? Depending on your answer, is this a relevant or pointless question?

It's pretty mixed. No one has timschocet'd it yet.

 

[timschochet]

Inconvenient truth.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/report-more-than-a-dozen-witnesses-have-corroborated-officer-darren-wilsons-version-of-ferguson-shooting/

More than a dozen witnesses have backed up the account of Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in the controversial shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown, police sources reportedly told St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter Christine Byers.

Byers also reported on Monday that Browns body was transported from the county medical examiner to a funeral home and then back to the medical examiner for three autopsies.

Where are these dozen witnesses?

 

[tom22406]

Top 10 posters in this thread:

Henry Ford 107

SaintsInDome2006 100

timschochet 99

jonessed 81

TobiasFunke 80

Greggity 76

Todd Andrews 74

lod01 72

Gary Coal Man 63

Fennis 61

I ask this because I don't know. I'm not trying to make any sort of point. Is this list largely conservative or liberal? Depending on your answer, is this a relevant or pointless question?

Looks like some of each. I think on this issue I, Tobias, Todd, and Fennis come off on the liberal end of the spectrum. Though by the same token, I think almost everyone on that list has, at times, chucked aside the bias and said that we just don't know enough to know for sure what happened.

Thanks. Appreciate the perspective.

My perspective: I think it's weird that most of the focus is on the guilt or innocence of the officer. I think the gross misconduct of the police department here is the real story. It's appalling. Libertarians and similarly minded small government activists should be outraged. Rand Paul aside (and I give him credit for speaking up), their silence and hypocrisy is deafening.

Gary Johnson from his Facebook page said this

The turmoil in Ferguson, MO, has prompted a long-overdue conversation about the militarization of police across America. It is really not that complicated. If you equip law enforcement with armored tactical vehicles and other combat weapons, they will find reasons to use them. And when the result is that the most threatening presence on the streets of America is the government itself, we know it has gone too far.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Inconvenient truth.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/report-more-than-a-dozen-witnesses-have-corroborated-officer-darren-wilsons-version-of-ferguson-shooting/

More than a dozen witnesses have backed up the account of Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in the controversial shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown, police sources reportedly told St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter Christine Byers.

Byers also reported on Monday that Brown’s body was transported from the county medical examiner to a funeral home and then back to the medical examiner for three autopsies.

The problem I have with this is...They keep saying witnesses and then quote a person who wasn't there but heard the story thru the police officer.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Top 10 posters in this thread:

Henry Ford 107

SaintsInDome2006 100

timschochet 99

jonessed 81

TobiasFunke 80

Greggity 76

Todd Andrews 74

lod01 72

Gary Coal Man 63

Fennis 61

I ask this because I don't know. I'm not trying to make any sort of point. Is this list largely conservative or liberal? Depending on your answer, is this a relevant or pointless question?

Looks like some of each. I think on this issue I, Tobias, Todd, and Fennis come off on the liberal end of the spectrum. Though by the same token, I think almost everyone on that list has, at times, chucked aside the bias and said that we just don't know enough to know for sure what happened.

Thanks. Appreciate the perspective.

My perspective: I think it's weird that most of the focus is on the guilt or innocence of the officer. I think the gross misconduct of the police department here is the real story. It's appalling. Libertarians and similarly minded small government activists should be outraged. Rand Paul aside (and I give him credit for speaking up), their silence and hypocrisy is deafening.

Gary Johnson from his Facebook page said this

The turmoil in Ferguson, MO, has prompted a long-overdue conversation about the militarization of police across America. It is really not that complicated. If you equip law enforcement with armored tactical vehicles and other combat weapons, they will find reasons to use them. And when the result is that the most threatening presence on the streets of America is the government itself, we know it has gone too far.

I'd like to hear more about the absurd treatment of the media, though. I find it some odd that people can spend months protesting an alleged First Amendment violation (that was actually a RFRA violation) because Hobby Lobby might have to pay for health insurance that covers birth control, but then stay silent when police tear gas camera crews and arrest reporters.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I'm curious as to what some of you think the purpose of 911 actually is.

Operator: "911, whats your emergency?"

Is shoplifting, or even petty theft, an "emergency"?

I imagine most minimarts/convenience stores deal with shoplifters on a regular basis. Surprisingly, police departments have non-emergency numbers to call if you want to report a crime.

We always call 911 for shoplifters. A non-emergency number would make sense. Not sure if it's the same everywhere, but here in Omaha, when you call 911, the first thing they ask is "is this a Police, or Fire Emergency?"

The video clearly shows a robbery and an assault. If people want to be obtuse about it there isn't much you can do.

There is a discussion to be had over the relevance to the shooting, but the actual robbery is right in the video. Trying to pretend it's something other than what everyone can see is moronic.

Is anyone doing that? I have not been keeping up with the whole thread. I have only seen the video once, and it certainly looks like he grabbed something and left - my only point is that it is wholly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

 

[jonessed]

Todem made the point that CNN is focusing too much on the violent protests rather than the peaceful ones. That made me wonder: suppose there were no rioting, no looting, no violence. Suppose all of the protests were totally peaceful.

Would this still be a national story?

No it wouldn't.

Of course it would. Large-scale race-based protests are always going to get big media attention.

 

[Dondante]

Interesting slice of humanity in this thread.

 

[BigJohn]

Is anyone doing that? I have not been keeping up with the whole thread. I have only seen the video once, and it certainly looks like he grabbed something and left - my only point is that it is wholly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

You need to watch the video again.

 

[Fat Nick]

I guess "family memebers" is kind of broad, so I could see some cousins or something.

I'm glad you approve

Really wasn't trying to be a smart-###. It just seemed like odd priorities given the situation. When I first read "the family," I'm envisioning Momma and Poppa Brown in there helping the guy. Just not what I would think they would be focusing on. I didn't consider that "family" is much broader.

 

[jonessed]

I'm curious as to what some of you think the purpose of 911 actually is.

Operator: "911, whats your emergency?"

Is shoplifting, or even petty theft, an "emergency"?

I imagine most minimarts/convenience stores deal with shoplifters on a regular basis. Surprisingly, police departments have non-emergency numbers to call if you want to report a crime.

We always call 911 for shoplifters. A non-emergency number would make sense. Not sure if it's the same everywhere, but here in Omaha, when you call 911, the first thing they ask is "is this a Police, or Fire Emergency?"

The video clearly shows a robbery and an assault. If people want to be obtuse about it there isn't much you can do.There is a discussion to be had over the relevance to the shooting, but the actual robbery is right in the video. Trying to pretend it's something other than what everyone can see is moronic.

Is anyone doing that? I have not been keeping up with the whole thread. I have only seen the video once, and it certainly looks like he grabbed something and left - my only point is that it is wholly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Yes. Many are referring to it as shoplifting and there are have been several questions with regard to whether we know a robbery occurred at all.

 

[Jim11]

Inconvenient truth.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/report-more-than-a-dozen-witnesses-have-corroborated-officer-darren-wilsons-version-of-ferguson-shooting/

More than a dozen witnesses have backed up the account of Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in the controversial shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown, police sources reportedly told St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter Christine Byers.

Byers also reported on Monday that Browns body was transported from the county medical examiner to a funeral home and then back to the medical examiner for three autopsies.

Where are these dozen witnesses?

You'll find out if this goes to trial.

Speaking of which, Federal Spy Guy's prediction.

Federal Spy Guy ‏@FederalSpyGuy 1h

Prognostication Charges filed against cop

Defended by cop union

Acquittal

Riots, looting, general animalistic mayhem - part duex

 

[kentric]

I don't know where the protestors get their energy...If I kept going like that I would have a hard time getting up and going to work the next day.

Still three pages back. Anyone bite on the 'going to work the next day' comment?

 

[jonessed]

Inconvenient truth.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/report-more-than-a-dozen-witnesses-have-corroborated-officer-darren-wilsons-version-of-ferguson-shooting/

More than a dozen witnesses have backed up the account of Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson in the controversial shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown, police sources reportedly told St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter Christine Byers.

Byers also reported on Monday that Browns body was transported from the county medical examiner to a funeral home and then back to the medical examiner for three autopsies.

Where are these dozen witnesses?

At home I'm guessing. Very few witnesses lawyer up and do the news circuit.

 

[Plorfu]

Who the #### is Federal Spy Guy?