Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (5 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

So we know everyone who said he was shot in the back basically made that story up.

Everyone who said the guy had his hands up and was being shot were wrong because there would be entry wounds on the back of the arms if his arms were raised over his head.

It looks more and more like a panicked officer shooting a charging suspect at least looking at that spray pattern of bullets.

Brown could have been shot at from behind and not hit , then turned around and was hit

Or it could have been "warning shots" that he responded to by turning around and charging. We don't know for sure.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

If we accept the account that Brown rushed Wilson, Brown's poor judgment may have also been because he was high:

Washington Post: County autopsy: Michael Brown shot 6 times from front, had marijuana in system

Granted, back when I smoked I'd get more mellow and sleepy.

 

[timschochet]

Family lawyer Crump said autopsy results corroborated the witness accounts

This is why I hate lawyers like this, because he states the exact OPPOSITE of the facts, namely:

1. All of the witnesses that Crump is referring to (inckuding Johnson, who is also Crumps' client, have stated that Brown was shot in the back.

2. The autopsy revealed that all the bullets were shot in the front.

Such BS.

 

[TheIronSheik]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.

I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear camouflage in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

I agree to an extent, but they aren't tanks.

I don't care if people call Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles tanks as symbolism, but fine we can stick to calling them Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicles

That's fine. But there's one reason, and one reason only people are calling them "tanks." And that's to draw up outrage because the image of a tank rolling through US cities conjures up scary thoughts. No one gets upset when an armored car rolls into town to pick up money from the bank. These vehicles are pretty much nicely equipped armored vehicles.

It's similar to when people talk about how PD's have drones now and they say things like "just like the one's that fly over Afghanistan." Sounds scary. I wonder why they don't say, "Just like the one's people use everyday to film stupid crap and then post on YouTube." My guess is because that latter statement doesn't fire up the people and make people angry.

They are "nicely equipped" Mine Resistant and Ambush Protected vehicles. If you don't want people to call them tanks, then you should call them what they are. And FWIW, these are the Mine Resistant and Ambush Protected vehicles they use in Afghanistan to fight the enemy.

You can call them that. That's fine. I have no problem with that. Just don't call them tanks because they are not tanks. Also, don't use these names for these items:

- Squad Cars - "F-16 Fighter Jets"

- Policeman - "Terminator T-1000"

- Pistol - "Tomahawk Missile"

- Badge - "Claymore"

 

[Ditka Butkus]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

 

[TheIronSheik]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

 

[fatness]

Dr. Michael Baden, the former New York City chief medical examiner who conducted the autopsy, also addressed the media, saying there was "no evidence of a struggle" -- a key detail at odds with the police's reported accounts of what transpired moments before an officer shot and killed Brown on Aug. 9.

Baden and Professor Shawn Parcells, a pathologist assistant based in Kansas who helped with the autopsy, said they could not establish the order of bullets fired at Brown. But they believe Brown died from a final bullet fired through the top of his skull because all of the other gunshot wounds were survivable, Baden said.

The information is largely consistent with eyewitness accounts of Brown's fatal encounter with police earlier this month. A friend who was with Brown at the time said the teen, who was unarmed, had his hands in the air and was trying to surrender. At a height of 6-foot-4, Brown's head would have been facing downward when the final bullet entered his head, Baden said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-family-autopsy_n_5687898.html

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Dr Baden said there were no signs of a struggle

Not that Dorian Johnson's eyewitness account needs any more holes drilled in it, but didn't Johnson say that Wilson reached out the window of his squad car, grabbed Brown by the neck, and began to choke him? Wouldn't a choke mark on the neck show up during an autopsy and be considered a sign of a struggle?

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

The police account also said there was a struggle. Not that the police need any more holes drilled in their credibility.

I see your point, but the police and other witnesses didn't get into the specifics of the struggle. They merely said there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson or they witnessed a struggle. It's possible that there was a struggle of a wrestling variety that wouldn't necessarily leave marks on Brown. It's more unlikely, however, that had Wilson grabbed Brown around the neck with one hand and squeezed hard that no mark would remain.

It's been alleged that Wilson went to the hospital after the interaction with Brown. It'll be interesting to see what the hospital report and any pictures of Wilson may show. If Wilson's body did show battering, you'd think that the police would have already released the medical report and/or any accompanying pictures to help exonerate Wilson. I'm not sure, though, if this information is being withheld as part of the investigation.

 

[timschochet]

Tobias, I know you want to continue to blame the police as the primary culprits for what has happened in Ferguson. Are the poiice, as a general rule, guilty of institutionalized racism? I think they are. Did this institutionalized racism contribute to the rage that the black community has felt over this incident, and the rage many of them feel everytime a white police officer shoots a black youth? Of course, and it's entirely understandable.

But that being said it seems pretty clear at this point that in THIS specific case, there is no evidence of an unjustified act by the police. The witnesses that created so much of the outrage in THIS instance are either lying or mistaken; either way they COULD NOT HAVE SEEN what they claimed to have seen (Brown being shot in the back.) The ONLY witness at this point whose testimony matches the autopsy is the one that claims Brown was charging the police officer, which would justify his act of shooting Brown.

Furthermore, you seem to be harping on the various errors the police committed AFTER the shooting, such as on the first night of the protests. You describe the looting and rioting that took place the first night as "a few incidents" and imply that the police overreacted. Frankly I have no idea if that's true or not. But it seems minor compared to the fact that the people protesting are acting like Brown's death was a murder by the police.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Dr. Michael Baden, the former New York City chief medical examiner who conducted the autopsy, also addressed the media, saying there was "no evidence of a struggle" -- a key detail at odds with the police's reported accounts of what transpired moments before an officer shot and killed Brown on Aug. 9.

Baden and Professor Shawn Parcells, a pathologist assistant based in Kansas who helped with the autopsy, said they could not establish the order of bullets fired at Brown. But they believe Brown died from a final bullet fired through the top of his skull because all of the other gunshot wounds were survivable, Baden said.

The information is largely consistent with eyewitness accounts of Brown's fatal encounter with police earlier this month. A friend who was with Brown at the time said the teen, who was unarmed, had his hands in the air and was trying to surrender. At a height of 6-foot-4, Brown's head would have been facing downward when the final bullet entered his head, Baden said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-family-autopsy_n_5687898.html

This may throw the charging the officer out the window...What if Brown turns around and puts his hands up...the officer shoots several times.....Brown starts to fall forward toward the cop and the bullets continue to enter his body including the top of his head which is now pointing at the officer.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Wouldn't your head be facing downwards after being shot a few times anyways?

Regardless, this is all hearsay and nonsense with senseless arguing and bull#### in between. Nobody really knows what happened except three people, one of which is dead. That leaves two sides of the story and the truth, which we will never know for sure.

I'd like to merge this thread with the Tony Stewart thread and send it off to another message board.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

he shoved a little old man. I'm not able to jump to the conclusion that because of this, he thought he could deliver a macho man elbow to an armed police officer.

 

[timschochet]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

 

[Gawain]

Dr. Michael Baden, the former New York City chief medical examiner who conducted the autopsy, also addressed the media, saying there was "no evidence of a struggle" -- a key detail at odds with the police's reported accounts of what transpired moments before an officer shot and killed Brown on Aug. 9.

Baden and Professor Shawn Parcells, a pathologist assistant based in Kansas who helped with the autopsy, said they could not establish the order of bullets fired at Brown. But they believe Brown died from a final bullet fired through the top of his skull because all of the other gunshot wounds were survivable, Baden said.

The information is largely consistent with eyewitness accounts of Brown's fatal encounter with police earlier this month. A friend who was with Brown at the time said the teen, who was unarmed, had his hands in the air and was trying to surrender. At a height of 6-foot-4, Brown's head would have been facing downward when the final bullet entered his head, Baden said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-family-autopsy_n_5687898.html

This may throw the charging the officer out the window...What if Brown turns around and puts his hands up...the officer shoots several times.....Brown starts to fall forward toward the cop and the bullets continue to enter his body including the top of his head which is now pointing at the officer.

What if the bullets don't match the officer's gun at all? maybe they were left overs from WW2 and had entered a low earth orbit after a wild ricochet and just happened to have their orbit decay to the point where they struck Brown just as the cop started to fire?

 

[fatness]

Baden and Parcells focused on two shots in particular that correlated with witness accounts of the shooting. The first was the shot to that entered the top of Brown's head near his hairline behind the exit wound by his right eye. Parcells said he and Baden believed the shot was fired from above, down onto Brown's head, because the bullet appeared to have reentered into his right shoulder.

The other shot of note was the one in the middle of his right arm. "There was a witness statement that said [brown] was walking away and he kind of jerks so that would have occurred when he was walking away, and then he turns around," Parcells said, demonstrating Brown's possible movements. "It's consistent with that."

Baden added that the bullets were fired from at least one or two feet away, and that there was "no evidence of a struggle." The only wounds apart from the bullet wounds were abrasions on Brown's face, attributed to him falling down after the shots to his head.

http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/michael-browns-family-addresses-preliminary-autopsy-results/378686/

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Dr. Michael Baden, the former New York City chief medical examiner who conducted the autopsy, also addressed the media, saying there was "no evidence of a struggle" -- a key detail at odds with the police's reported accounts of what transpired moments before an officer shot and killed Brown on Aug. 9.

Baden and Professor Shawn Parcells, a pathologist assistant based in Kansas who helped with the autopsy, said they could not establish the order of bullets fired at Brown. But they believe Brown died from a final bullet fired through the top of his skull because all of the other gunshot wounds were survivable, Baden said.

The information is largely consistent with eyewitness accounts of Brown's fatal encounter with police earlier this month. A friend who was with Brown at the time said the teen, who was unarmed, had his hands in the air and was trying to surrender. At a height of 6-foot-4, Brown's head would have been facing downward when the final bullet entered his head, Baden said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-family-autopsy_n_5687898.html

This may throw the charging the officer out the window...What if Brown turns around and puts his hands up...the officer shoots several times.....Brown starts to fall forward toward the cop and the bullets continue to enter his body including the top of his head which is now pointing at the officer.

What if the bullets don't match the officer's gun at all? maybe they were left overs from WW2 and had entered a low earth orbit after a wild ricochet and just happened to have their orbit decay to the point where they struck Brown just as the cop started to fire?

You are obviously under the influence....

 

[Captain Quinoa]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

he shoved a little old man. I'm not able to jump to the conclusion that because of this, he thought he could deliver a macho man elbow to an armed police officer.

Plus he was stealing cigars not Slim Jims

 

[Greggity]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

he shoved a little old man. I'm not able to jump to the conclusion that because of this,

Oh i certainly can......

 

[johnnycakes]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

he shoved a little old man. I'm not able to jump to the conclusion that because of this, he thought he could deliver a macho man elbow to an armed police officer.

Plus he was stealing cigars not Slim Jims

Soon to be made into blunts, no doubt.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tobias, I know you want to continue to blame the police as the primary culprits for what has happened in Ferguson. Are the poiice, as a general rule, guilty of institutionalized racism? I think they are. Did this institutionalized racism contribute to the rage that the black community has felt over this incident, and the rage many of them feel everytime a white police officer shoots a black youth? Of course, and it's entirely understandable.

But that being said it seems pretty clear at this point that in THIS specific case, there is no evidence of an unjustified act by the police. The witnesses that created so much of the outrage in THIS instance are either lying or mistaken; either way they COULD NOT HAVE SEEN what they claimed to have seen (Brown being shot in the back.) The ONLY witness at this point whose testimony matches the autopsy is the one that claims Brown was charging the police officer, which would justify his act of shooting Brown.

Furthermore, you seem to be harping on the various errors the police committed AFTER the shooting, such as on the first night of the protests. You describe the looting and rioting that took place the first night as "a few incidents" and imply that the police overreacted. Frankly I have no idea if that's true or not. But it seems minor compared to the fact that the people protesting are acting like Brown's death was a murder by the police.

You seem very certain of many things. I'm not certain of any of the bolded. Far from it.

As to the harping on various errors after the shooting and the people protesting acting like Brown's death was a murder by the police- the two are inextricable. Most of (all of?) the reason for that reaction is the lack of transparency and honesty by the police. They have acted like they had something to hide at every turn. They have acted like they were on the side of the officer rather than the side of justice and of the community.

If the officer's actions were reasonable and in accordance with the law, those two things (the interests of the officer and the interests of the community and justice) would be the same. By acting as if they were at odds the police created the impression of culpability. I don't know if the officer actually did anything wrong, and in an ideal world everyone would reserve judgment until that's known. But given the many, many well-documented efforts of the police to obscure the truth and mislead the community and the public since then, I understand why people are coming to that conclusion and no longer trust the powers that be.

 

[Captain Quinoa]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

he shoved a little old man. I'm not able to jump to the conclusion that because of this,

Oh i certainly can......

and what conclusions should we draw about puppy-chokers?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No......I would bet that after all that has been going on they will say this is just another part of the cover up.

 

[fatness]

Regardless, this is all hearsay and nonsense with senseless arguing and bull#### in between.

So now that autopsy results are starting to be released, it's become heresay and nonsense?

 

[[icon]]

What if the bullets don't match the officer's gun at all? maybe they were left overs from WW2 and had entered a low earth orbit after a wild ricochet and just happened to have their orbit decay to the point where they struck Brown just as the cop started to fire?

THANK YOU!!

It's about time someone raised this possibility.

 

[lod01]

Family lawyer Crump said autopsy results corroborated the witness accounts

This is why I hate lawyers like this, because he states the exact OPPOSITE of the facts, namely:

1. All of the witnesses that Crump is referring to (inckuding Johnson, who is also Crumps' client, have stated that Brown was shot in the back.

2. The autopsy revealed that all the bullets were shot in the front.

Such BS.

That guy is an idiot. He's taking select bits of the autopsy and running with it. Like 'victim was shot in the top of the head'....AHA! That means he was surrendering just like the witnesses say.

Um no, it means that is a possibility but so is that his head was down as he rushed at the cop.

Everyone that matters will see thru this clown's charade. He dug himself a hole by jumping on this case.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

You'd have to be damn confident in your one-armed choking skills to execute the one-armed, out the window choke on 6'4" 292 lb. guy.

Yeah, that's just ludicrous. Not like something reasonable like trying to do a pro wrestling move when you're unarmed and a cop who has a gun pointed at you.

Yes, but we already know that Brown had a propensity for displaying irrational physical aggression. the cop still has the benefit of the doubt.

he shoved a little old man. I'm not able to jump to the conclusion that because of this, he thought he could deliver a macho man elbow to an armed police officer.

Plus he was stealing cigars not Slim Jims

Soon to be made into blunts, no doubt.

I like how you linked to Wiki page on blunts like blunts were some wacky new thing the kids are now doing that we've never heard of. Dad, is that you?

 

[Courtjester]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No because I believe the majority of the protesters aren't from that area. The law abiding ones that are holding peaceful vigils seem to be local, but the ones with the Molotovs appear to be from elsewhere and are just coming in to engage the cops and look for free stuff. Kind of like the anarchists that show up at every G-12 summit to cause trouble.

I watched Friday nights action live on my computer and there was a moment there where the action is dying down, they have all the press all corralled up and police are engaging someone down the street out of sight. A lady's voice is heard talking behind the cameraman and she says she lives there (she didn't want to give her name) but she said all those people that were down there earlier were from another town and they were young people that came in to start trouble.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Family lawyer Crump said autopsy results corroborated the witness accounts

This is why I hate lawyers like this, because he states the exact OPPOSITE of the facts, namely:

1. All of the witnesses that Crump is referring to (inckuding Johnson, who is also Crumps' client, have stated that Brown was shot in the back.

2. The autopsy revealed that all the bullets were shot in the front.

Such BS.

Maybe they can charge him with inciting a riot.

 

[lod01]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No......I would bet that after all that has been going on they will say this is just another part of the cover up.

The captured audio conversation has really put a kink in their lies however.

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No because I believe the majority of the protesters aren't from that area. The law abiding ones that are holding peaceful vigils seem to be local, but the ones with the Molotovs appear to be from elsewhere and are just coming in to engage the cops and look for free stuff. Kind of like the anarchists that show up at every G-12 summit to cause trouble.

I watched Friday nights action live on my computer and there was a moment there where the action is dying down, they have all the press all corralled up and police are engaging someone down the street out of sight. A lady's voice is heard talking behind the cameraman and she says she lives there (she didn't want to give her name) but she said all those people that were down there earlier were from another town and they were young people that came in to start trouble.

These are the "professional" looters I mentioned earlier...They come in and incite the crowd and grab free stuff as they go along.

 

[fatness]

Forensic pathologist Shawn Parcells, who assisted former New York City chief medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden during the private autopsy, said a bullet graze wound on Brown's right arm could have occurred in several ways. He said the teen may have had his back to the shooter, or he could have been facing the shooter with his hands above his head or in a defensive position.

"We don't know," Parcells said. "We still have to look at the other (elements) of this investigation before we start piecing things together."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/national/midwest/2014/08/dont_know_if_missouri_teen_shot_with_hands_up

 

[kentric]

Tobias, I know you want to continue to blame the police as the primary culprits for what has happened in Ferguson. Are the poiice, as a general rule, guilty of institutionalized racism? I think they are. Did this institutionalized racism contribute to the rage that the black community has felt over this incident, and the rage many of them feel everytime a white police officer shoots a black youth? Of course, and it's entirely understandable.

But that being said it seems pretty clear at this point that in THIS specific case, there is no evidence of an unjustified act by the police. The witnesses that created so much of the outrage in THIS instance are either lying or mistaken; either way they COULD NOT HAVE SEEN what they claimed to have seen (Brown being shot in the back.) The ONLY witness at this point whose testimony matches the autopsy is the one that claims Brown was charging the police officer, which would justify his act of shooting Brown.

Furthermore, you seem to be harping on the various errors the police committed AFTER the shooting, such as on the first night of the protests. You describe the looting and rioting that took place the first night as "a few incidents" and imply that the police overreacted. Frankly I have no idea if that's true or not. But it seems minor compared to the fact that the people protesting are acting like Brown's death was a murder by the police.

Funny, but I knew this was a Tim post by the second sentence without even seeing his name. I'm being assimilated.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

I wonder if they have problems like Ferguson is experiencing.....just curious....maybe they do.

 

[lod01]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No because I believe the majority of the protesters aren't from that area. The law abiding ones that are holding peaceful vigils seem to be local, but the ones with the Molotovs appear to be from elsewhere and are just coming in to engage the cops and look for free stuff. Kind of like the anarchists that show up at every G-12 summit to cause trouble.

I watched Friday nights action live on my computer and there was a moment there where the action is dying down, they have all the press all corralled up and police are engaging someone down the street out of sight. A lady's voice is heard talking behind the cameraman and she says she lives there (she didn't want to give her name) but she said all those people that were down there earlier were from another town and they were young people that came in to start trouble.

These are the "professional" looters I mentioned earlier...They come in and incite the crowd and grab free stuff as they go along.

I see. You don't just come hoping to loot. You instigate as a diversion so you can loot. That is a pro move.

I bet the pros have those police scanners that can pick up conversations throughout the US and have teams at the ready just waiting to pounce.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Family lawyer Crump said autopsy results corroborated the witness accounts

This is why I hate lawyers like this, because he states the exact OPPOSITE of the facts, namely:

1. All of the witnesses that Crump is referring to (inckuding Johnson, who is also Crumps' client, have stated that Brown was shot in the back.

2. The autopsy revealed that all the bullets were shot in the front.

Such BS.

That's what lawyers do. But the fact that it was at least 6 shots and twice in the head is the part that any decent lawyer should keep repeating.

 

[Greggity]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No because I believe the majority of the protesters aren't from that area. The law abiding ones that are holding peaceful vigils seem to be local, but the ones with the Molotovs appear to be from elsewhere and are just coming in to engage the cops and look for free stuff. Kind of like the anarchists that show up at every G-12 summit to cause trouble.

I watched Friday nights action live on my computer and there was a moment there where the action is dying down, they have all the press all corralled up and police are engaging someone down the street out of sight. A lady's voice is heard talking behind the cameraman and she says she lives there (she didn't want to give her name) but she said all those people that were down there earlier were from another town and they were young people that came in to start trouble.

These are the "professional" looters I mentioned earlier...They come in and incite the crowd and grab free stuff as they go along.

I always wanted one of those free obama phones....

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

I wonder if they have problems like Ferguson is experiencing.....just curious....maybe they do.

Its amazing how people rise to take on the threat they face. I am sure we will see an IED in America before too long against one of these Mine Resistant Ambush Protected military vehicles.

 

[lod01]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No because I believe the majority of the protesters aren't from that area. The law abiding ones that are holding peaceful vigils seem to be local, but the ones with the Molotovs appear to be from elsewhere and are just coming in to engage the cops and look for free stuff. Kind of like the anarchists that show up at every G-12 summit to cause trouble.

I watched Friday nights action live on my computer and there was a moment there where the action is dying down, they have all the press all corralled up and police are engaging someone down the street out of sight. A lady's voice is heard talking behind the cameraman and she says she lives there (she didn't want to give her name) but she said all those people that were down there earlier were from another town and they were young people that came in to start trouble.

These are the "professional" looters I mentioned earlier...They come in and incite the crowd and grab free stuff as they go along.

I always wanted one of those free obama phones....

You won't graduate looting academy if you are thinking that small.

 

[TheIronSheik]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

Again. Very hyperbolic. Because they wear camouflage, they are scarier? Or are you more afraid because they now have better training to combat criminal activity?

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Family lawyer Crump said autopsy results corroborated the witness accounts

This is why I hate lawyers like this, because he states the exact OPPOSITE of the facts, namely:

1. All of the witnesses that Crump is referring to (inckuding Johnson, who is also Crumps' client, have stated that Brown was shot in the back.

2. The autopsy revealed that all the bullets were shot in the front.

Such BS.

That guy is an idiot. He's taking select bits of the autopsy and running with it. Like 'victim was shot in the top of the head'....AHA! That means he was surrendering just like the witnesses say.

Um no, it means that is a possibility but so is that his head was down as he rushed at the cop.

Everyone that matters will see thru this clown's charade. He dug himself a hole by jumping on this case.

Crump is not an idiot. He's doing his job. He's paid to represent the interests of the deceased Michael Brown and his family, and that's exactly what he is doing.

Besides, as we've seen in this thread, there are multiple ways to look at the same facts. Sure the autopsy results destroy witness claims that Brown was shot in the back, but Crump is correct that the autopsy results potentially could be used to corroborate the witness claims that Brown was shot with his hands up and from a distance.

 

[TheIronSheik]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

I wonder if they have problems like Ferguson is experiencing.....just curious....maybe they do.

Its amazing how people rise to take on the threat they face. I am sure we will see an IED in America before too long against one of these Mine Resistant Ambush Protected military vehicles.

So, by your rationale, if we did away with police, the world would be free of crime?

 

[Greggity]

So will the autopsy change anyone's mind? Will any of the protestors have the courage to stop and say to themselves, "Wait a moment- those witnesses told us Brown was shot in the back, and now it turns out that he was shot in the front. I thought this was murder, could we have been wrong this whole time??"

No because I believe the majority of the protesters aren't from that area. The law abiding ones that are holding peaceful vigils seem to be local, but the ones with the Molotovs appear to be from elsewhere and are just coming in to engage the cops and look for free stuff. Kind of like the anarchists that show up at every G-12 summit to cause trouble.

I watched Friday nights action live on my computer and there was a moment there where the action is dying down, they have all the press all corralled up and police are engaging someone down the street out of sight. A lady's voice is heard talking behind the cameraman and she says she lives there (she didn't want to give her name) but she said all those people that were down there earlier were from another town and they were young people that came in to start trouble.

These are the "professional" looters I mentioned earlier...They come in and incite the crowd and grab free stuff as they go along.

I always wanted one of those free obama phones....

You won't graduate looting academy if you are thinking that small.

I blame my upbringing...

 

[Ditka Butkus]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

I wonder if they have problems like Ferguson is experiencing.....just curious....maybe they do.

Its amazing how people rise to take on the threat they face. I am sure we will see an IED in America before too long against one of these Mine Resistant Ambush Protected military vehicles.

When you say people, I assume you mean criminals?....Your law abiding citizens don't fear law enforcement.

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

Again. Very hyperbolic. Because they wear camouflage, they are scarier? Or are you more afraid because they now have better training to combat criminal activity?

I am very afraid of the militarization of the police. It is a terrifying path we are gong down.

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

I wonder if they have problems like Ferguson is experiencing.....just curious....maybe they do.

Its amazing how people rise to take on the threat they face. I am sure we will see an IED in America before too long against one of these Mine Resistant Ambush Protected military vehicles.

When you say people, I assume you mean criminals?....Your law abiding citizens don't fear law enforcement.

I am law abiding and I fear law enforcement.

 

[kface]

This is brilliant...this guy is awesome

 

[[icon]]

Can we please get more outrage from the national media for the killing of this guy from Utah?

I mean... kinda the same thing here. Surely those seeking justice for Brown's death should be equally as upset about Taylor's death, no?!

 

[Fennis]

of Defense has given local law enforcement over 600 MRAPs, the armored vehicles designed to withstand roadside bombs

Tanks are offensive. MRAPs are defensive.I don't like the intimidation factor of MRAPs, but they definitely aren't anything resembling a tank.

its a symbolism of the militarization of the police. It points out the problem when the police say "Ferguson is a war" and when they point military weapons at American citizens and when they wear c[SIZE=10.5pt]amouflage [/SIZE]in the street.

There are very specific reasons we have police forces and not the military patrol the streets in America.

It must be close if the National Guard has to come in and try and gain control..........

fighting wars is not what a police department does. They are there to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the city they serve.

And when trying to protect the lives and property from looters and Molotov cocktail throwers and being grossly outnumbered by evildoers who in some case are armed what tactics and equipment do you suggest they use.

Please. Why should the police be allowed to protect themselves? You know very well that by doing so it will cause, and with good reason, the community to act up.

You should feel free to move to a country where the military patrols the streets. There are plenty of them.

I wonder if they have problems like Ferguson is experiencing.....just curious....maybe they do.

Its amazing how people rise to take on the threat they face. I am sure we will see an IED in America before too long against one of these Mine Resistant Ambush Protected military vehicles.

So, by your rationale, if we did away with police, the world would be free of crime?

I don't think the world would be free of crime no. I need to think of what the real impact would be.

 

[Fennis]

Can we please get more outrage from the national media for the killing of this guy from Utah?

I mean... kinda the same thing here. Surely those seeking justice for Brown's death should be equally as upset about Taylor's death, no?!

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