timschochet
Footballguy
if that was his defense I would probably lean towards conviction.
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Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
More likely:
- Wilson is indicted, if not locally then by the feds
- They move the trial
- It goes to a more suburban (ie less "black") venue far away from the maddening crowd, greater chance Wilson gets higher % white jury
- The feds tack on civil rights charges
- Wilson is acquitted or gets hung jury on murder/manslaughter charges
- But Wilson gets convicted on civil rights violations
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Politician Spock
Footballguy
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
I don't see any way the Feds touch this with a 10 foot pole and you can see that as evidenced by Obama's complete distancing himself from this one. He took a lot of ridicule from the Martin case--people still use his "If I had a son" line to this day. I am guessing Holder has been given some pretty clear parameters on what to do--but again I am just guessing at that,
Plus to get a Civil Rights conviction is almost impossible--you would have to show the officer had a mindset to go out of his way to target Brown because of the color of his skin. That maybe could have been proven if Brown lived in a racially diverse neighborhood, but this is predominately black neighborhood and it wasn't like there were 25 white guys walking around and then Brown and his friend. Plus you need to remember the officer's initial contact was legit--they were walking in the middle of the road and the officer contacted them to get out. It wasn't like he pulled them over and made up some reason for the stop.
spreagle
Footballguy
I just reenacted the "Brown charging from 20 feet" scenario with my 11 year old armed with an air soft semi auto, he gleefully accepted the assignment, the first time he was able to get off only one shot and winged me on the leg, the second time I ran in with a little zig zag movement and he missed both shots.
20 feet is real close, 30 wouldn't be much different. You just can't pull a trigger fast enough because the distance is closed in a little over a second, a quarter second or more of which is lost in reaction time. There is no guarantee you can stop an attacker with a handgun from those distances. Imagine trying to stop a 300 pound grizzly bear or 300 pound anything charging from 20 feet with a handgun, the odds aren't good.
20 feet is real close, 30 wouldn't be much different. You just can't pull a trigger fast enough because the distance is closed in a little over a second, a quarter second or more of which is lost in reaction time. There is no guarantee you can stop an attacker with a handgun from those distances. Imagine trying to stop a 300 pound grizzly bear or 300 pound anything charging from 20 feet with a handgun, the odds aren't good.
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BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
You're not the first person here to make this argument. My problem with it is this: Wilson WAS successful. Based on your example, if Brown had charged from 20 feet or more, Wilson should not have been able to hit him more than once. Yet Wilson shot Brown 5 times. So I have to conclude that, based on your example, that Wilson is pretty awesome shooter. Or that Brown wasn't charging (which I don't believe anyhow.)
jonessed
Footballguy
If there was anything in Wilson's background and/or specific to this event that the Feds could use to build a case I would think that the media would have at least gotten a whiff. It's not like there haven't been people digging.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
im still sticking with the eye witnesses who actually SAW what happened as opposed to somebody who heard what happened from some person who may have or have not seen what happened.
IMO this cop was pissed off from the time he said get the %$#% off the street ...to screeching in reverse and getting out of his car to shoot at an unarmed guy who is running away from him.....i think they did have an altercation and that cop didnt like it one bit. That doesnt give him the right to fire off 6 shots at a fleeing person....if he had hit brown in the back and killed him we wouldnt even be having this discussion....he missed the initial shots but made up for that with the second volley of shots striking that guy in the arm and head.
IMO this cop was pissed off from the time he said get the %$#% off the street ...to screeching in reverse and getting out of his car to shoot at an unarmed guy who is running away from him.....i think they did have an altercation and that cop didnt like it one bit. That doesnt give him the right to fire off 6 shots at a fleeing person....if he had hit brown in the back and killed him we wouldnt even be having this discussion....he missed the initial shots but made up for that with the second volley of shots striking that guy in the arm and head.
jonessed
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Right, because the average person turns back around and starts moving towards someone with a gun who just missed him when he was running away.
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TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Do you find it a little bit curious that they waited like six days to release the guy's name and that any online record of his existence was basically wiped clean in the interim? I haven't even seen a cache'd Facebook page or anything. Obviously that's not damning or anything, but it's one of many eyebrow-raising facts surrounding this incident.
drummer
Footballguy
Where is the thread about this?
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20140826/3-charged-in-shooting-of-san-bernardino-police-officer-gabriel-garcia
http://www.sbsun.com/general-news/20140826/3-charged-in-shooting-of-san-bernardino-police-officer-gabriel-garcia
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Seriously. Anyone who has read that news article and knows the details of that incident and didn't start a thread about it is a disgusting human being.
drummer
Footballguy
Kinda goes without saying that being in LE is kind of a dangerous job. But I don't see an outpouring of sentiment or support, or even outrage over this.
Then again, I shouldn't keep high expectations here anyway. Which I don't.
lod01
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
I don't believe the Ferguson Police Department outwitted the global media and the hacker world in an effort to hide anything damning of Walker. In fact, I think the odds are infinitesimally small.
I think it's more likely he's just a low-key guy with a clean background. That doesn't mean he wasn't in the wrong here, but I don't anything the Feds can latch onto. My understanding is their hurdle is pretty big.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Absolutely not. I agree. Knowing that anyone read this article, understood the contents, and failed to start a thread about it here is just proof that our expectations around here should be low. People like that make me want to vomit.
drummer
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
So an 11 year old got one hit, but you think a police officer emptying his gun could would have to be Annie Oakley to get 5 hits.
Face it man case closed. Spreagle for the win.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'm no expert but I would think it would be incredibly easy to "outwit the global media and the hacker world" if you have a six day head start. I found this in five seconds via a Google search.
I find it a lot easier to believe that the PD and the guy went through the process of scrubbing his online existence than it is to believe that this of 200 million or so American adults, Darrn Wilson is the only one who has never said or done anything regrettable on the internet.
That obviously doesn't have any relevance to a federal civil rights case. It's just one of the many things that, at a minimum, contributes to the distrust surrounding the guy and the PD. For an organization claiming they have nothing to hide they sure are hiding quite a lot.
spreagle
Footballguy
What I'm thinking is that if you are 20 to 30 feet away from an angry officer you better do exactly what he says, because you are a threat by just being that close. You can be on top of him in a second. If the officer waits until he charges to act, he is taking a big risk with his life.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Faux Drama is a pretty cool band name.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
drummer
Footballguy
Haven't read much of this thread, but as the article I posted shows, LE still face perps who are armed with assault rifles. One of the issues talked about over the Ferguson controversy is how police have built up their armory into military sort of standards. Well, it was not that long ago where the LA police had a "Heat" type shootout with bank robbers who were better armed than the LE. The robbers were better protected than most of the soldiers during the first wave of the Iraq war with protective vests and such too.
It's a violent world out there, and the people on our domestic front lines are the ones in LE. They have famiiles too.
It's a violent world out there, and the people on our domestic front lines are the ones in LE. They have famiiles too.
Yeah, let's bring up one of the few, if only, cases where perps were armed to that level to justify ALL police agencies becoming domestic armies.
drummer
Footballguy
Again, if perps are better armed than the local LE, you have a bigger problem than if they aren't.
Officer safety is way overblown imo - last year 2 officers died via stabbing, no other deaths resulted from physical assaults. So the likelihood of actual death by beating is exaggerated in an effort to allow police officers free reign to kill civilians.
One officer trying to corral two jaywalking suspects probably needs better training or a better approach imo.
One officer trying to corral two jaywalking suspects probably needs better training or a better approach imo.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I brought this up earlier. The point is that why should police not be able to arm themselves for whatever is possible? Of course the last time I said that, it was met with half the people saying, "OK. Let's give them anti aircraft guns and F15's." So, there's no need to go down that road again.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Well, obviously. I don't think anyone is arguing for the police to have landmines and Tomahawk missiles. Although, if they need them, I know a guy who can get them cheap. But I don't think armored vehicles or rifles are crossing the line. I want my police officers to be better equipped than most criminals. I want my police officers to come home each evening.
But, as I've stated before, I think the police departments need to do a better job interacting with the communities they protect. I also think the communities need to keep an open mind to the people who are out there protecting them. Until both sides do a better job and finding common ground, the divide will always be there.
Probably for the same reason they don't wear a bullet proof vest from the minute they get on duty to when they're off. In 99.9% of their interactions they don't need it. They should approach a situation with reasonable caution, assess the danger, and adjust their actions based upon the level of perceived danger. I'm sick of reading stories about SWAT teams busting down doors with guns ready to blase in order to serve a warrant, "just in case." And most people feel similarly. You're welcome to have a differing opinion but when an overwhelming majority of the people who pay these cops salaries don't want them using those levels of force I think that should be respected.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I would say the bigger problem is if you actually expect the government to win an arms race with criminals. It won't end well. Criminals are rich, the government is not.
Law enforcement's leverage is mostly attributable to the fact that shooting a cop is pretty much the worst crime you can possibly commit in terms of both the punishment and the likelihood that you will be punished.
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Most cops have rifles, or at least shotguns. Or it seems that way from when I used to watch Adam-12.Well, obviously. I don't think anyone is arguing for the police to have landmines and Tomahawk missiles. Although, if they need them, I know a guy who can get them cheap. But I don't think armored vehicles or rifles are crossing the line. I want my police officers to be better equipped than most criminals. I want my police officers to come home each evening.
But, as I've stated before, I think the police departments need to do a better job interacting with the communities they protect. I also think the communities need to keep an open mind to the people who are out there protecting them. Until both sides do a better job and finding common ground, the divide will always be there.
drummer
Footballguy
They also carried revolvers :dragnet:.Most cops have rifles, or at least shotguns. Or it seems that way from when I used to watch Adam-12.Well, obviously. I don't think anyone is arguing for the police to have landmines and Tomahawk missiles. Although, if they need them, I know a guy who can get them cheap. But I don't think armored vehicles or rifles are crossing the line. I want my police officers to be better equipped than most criminals. I want my police officers to come home each evening.
But, as I've stated before, I think the police departments need to do a better job interacting with the communities they protect. I also think the communities need to keep an open mind to the people who are out there protecting them. Until both sides do a better job and finding common ground, the divide will always be there.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Most cops wear their vests all of the time. Not sure which cop shows you're getting your info from. It's worn under their blues.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
Most major departments did not have rifles until recently. Again, see the BOA robbery for details. And a shotgun? What's your point there?Most cops have rifles, or at least shotguns. Or it seems that way from when I used to watch Adam-12.Well, obviously. I don't think anyone is arguing for the police to have landmines and Tomahawk missiles. Although, if they need them, I know a guy who can get them cheap. But I don't think armored vehicles or rifles are crossing the line. I want my police officers to be better equipped than most criminals. I want my police officers to come home each evening.
But, as I've stated before, I think the police departments need to do a better job interacting with the communities they protect. I also think the communities need to keep an open mind to the people who are out there protecting them. Until both sides do a better job and finding common ground, the divide will always be there.
The point stands. 99.9% of the time they aren't needed. Nor are armored vehicles.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
StrikeS2k said:
OK. 99.9% of the time seatbelts aren't need either. Why don't people just put them on before the accident?
Loan Sharks
Not a Wolf
I used to live in California, remember the time the guy stole the tank and tried to run over people.
There is a line already on cop armaments, I remember hearing the recording of the call from the cops to the SWAT team their response "We do not have anti tank capabilities."
There is a line already on cop armaments, I remember hearing the recording of the call from the cops to the SWAT team their response "We do not have anti tank capabilities."
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
yes....can you outrun a bullet? I cant...i would just give up and turn around with my hands up saying ''stop shooting im not armed'' ...and i would hope the cop stopped shooting....but according to 4 or 5 different witnesses the cop didnt stop shooting...so yes he was shot on the inside of his arm and the top of his head as he was falling forward....those arent theories those are witness statementsGhost Rider said:
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Barney Fife could not handle a loaded revolver, can't imagine that most small town cops need more than a night stick. Save tax payer money and call in a bigger resource when its needed, which is most likely never.
Every cop does not even need a service weapon, let alone full scale combat gear. Save that for your national guard, which has a unit stationed nearby....
Every cop does not even need a service weapon, let alone full scale combat gear. Save that for your national guard, which has a unit stationed nearby....
Jackstraw
Footballguy
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — Police officers who opened fire while disrupting a robbery at a fast-food restaurant in Omaha killed a crew member with the TV show "Cops" as well as the suspect, who was armed with a pellet gun that they thought was a real handgun, authorities said Wednesday.
Ruh Roh. Better get started on the research. Hopefully the kid had smoked pot or listened to rap. Maybe he had some pictures in facebook making funny hand gestures. Surely somehow he was "no angel".
You know. Standard operating procedure.
Guns suck ###.
Ruh Roh. Better get started on the research. Hopefully the kid had smoked pot or listened to rap. Maybe he had some pictures in facebook making funny hand gestures. Surely somehow he was "no angel".
You know. Standard operating procedure.
Guns suck ###.
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