Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (4 Viewers)

[TobiasFunke]

Young black males are 21 times more likely to be killed by police than young white males.

All of the experts are wrong and my casual Internet research is correct.

Amazing, isn't it? I mean there can't be more than 5% of the US population that denies that law enforcement discriminates based on race well beyond racial imbalance of criminal activity, and that this is a serious problem. Examples of this bias independent of differences in crime rates are numerous and overwhelming. Yet somehow the few people who don't think this is a problem seem to find each other, in places like this thread and at Cardinals games.

Do you think the NYPD has a question on their application asking if someone is an Uncle Tom?

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/analysis_and_planning/crime_and_enforcement_activity.shtml

Did you look at this data, or just dismiss it. Whites are the minority in this police force. This is pretty much 2+2.

What in God's name are you talking about? I didn't say anything about the racial makeup of the NYPD. I barely said anything about the city of New York, which I didn't mention in my post and is mentioned in only one of the fourteen examples of racial discrimination found in one of the two links I provided.

 

[fantasycurse42]

14 examples? I've got the biggest city in the country, prob a stronger data set, no?

Can someone answer this question?

NYC, the countries biggest city has a police force where whites do not make up the majority. In this city, whites make up 2% of the shooting crimes, blacks make up almost 75% of these crimes with hispanics filling in the majority of the gap to 100%.

Why is this? Serious question...

 

[TobiasFunke]

14 examples? I've got the biggest city in the country, prob a stronger data set, no?

Can someone answer this question?

NYC, the countries biggest city has a police force where whites do not make up the majority. In this city, whites make up 2% of the shooting crimes, blacks make up almost 75% of these crimes with hispanics filling in the majority of the gap to 100%.

Why is this? Serious question...

Data set proving what?

I don't exactly understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway, which is certainly more than you deserve considering you still haven't bothered to explain why you thought it was OK to make up quotes attributed to me that I didn't say and then pretend it didn't happen rather than apologize for it:

Are you asking why blacks commit a disproportionate share of the shooting crimes? I assume there's a variety of complicated factors, including a number of socioeconomic differences in addition to discrimination in policing, which is probably a relatively small direct factor but one that tends to perpetuate the other differences. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything. Nor do I have any idea what you think any of this proves.

 

[fantasycurse42]

14 examples? I've got the biggest city in the country, prob a stronger data set, no?

Can someone answer this question?

NYC, the countries biggest city has a police force where whites do not make up the majority. In this city, whites make up 2% of the shooting crimes, blacks make up almost 75% of these crimes with hispanics filling in the majority of the gap to 100%.

Why is this? Serious question...

Data set proving what?

I don't exactly understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway, which is certainly more than you deserve considering you still haven't bothered to explain why you thought it was OK to make up quotes attributed to me that I didn't say and then pretend it didn't happen rather than apologize for it:

Are you asking why blacks commit a disproportionate share of the shooting crimes? I assume there's a variety of complicated factors, including a number of socioeconomic differences in addition to discrimination in policing, which is probably a relatively small direct factor but one that tends to perpetuate the other differences. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything. Nor do I have any idea what you think any of this proves.

 

[TobiasFunke]

14 examples? I've got the biggest city in the country, prob a stronger data set, no?

Can someone answer this question?

NYC, the countries biggest city has a police force where whites do not make up the majority. In this city, whites make up 2% of the shooting crimes, blacks make up almost 75% of these crimes with hispanics filling in the majority of the gap to 100%.

Why is this? Serious question...

Data set proving what?

I don't exactly understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway, which is certainly more than you deserve considering you still haven't bothered to explain why you thought it was OK to make up quotes attributed to me that I didn't say and then pretend it didn't happen rather than apologize for it:

Are you asking why blacks commit a disproportionate share of the shooting crimes? I assume there's a variety of complicated factors, including a number of socioeconomic differences in addition to discrimination in policing, which is probably a relatively small direct factor but one that tends to perpetuate the other differences. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything. Nor do I have any idea what you think any of this proves.

Solid response.

As usual it was a waste of time to take you seriously and giving you the response you requested. My fault for momentarily giving you the benefit of the doubt.

 

[fantasycurse42]

14 examples? I've got the biggest city in the country, prob a stronger data set, no?

Can someone answer this question?

NYC, the countries biggest city has a police force where whites do not make up the majority. In this city, whites make up 2% of the shooting crimes, blacks make up almost 75% of these crimes with hispanics filling in the majority of the gap to 100%.

Why is this? Serious question...

Data set proving what?

I don't exactly understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway, which is certainly more than you deserve considering you still haven't bothered to explain why you thought it was OK to make up quotes attributed to me that I didn't say and then pretend it didn't happen rather than apologize for it:

Are you asking why blacks commit a disproportionate share of the shooting crimes? I assume there's a variety of complicated factors, including a number of socioeconomic differences in addition to discrimination in policing, which is probably a relatively small direct factor but one that tends to perpetuate the other differences. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything. Nor do I have any idea what you think any of this proves.

Solid response.

As usual it was a waste of time to take you seriously and giving you the response you requested. My fault for momentarily giving you the benefit of the doubt.

It was appropriate, being that your two sentences are contradicting each other.

Can we blame the white man for these socioeconomic reasons, which I guess would be the white man's fault for the disproportionate amount of blacks being arrested for shooting people?

 

[TobiasFunke]

14 examples? I've got the biggest city in the country, prob a stronger data set, no?

Can someone answer this question?

NYC, the countries biggest city has a police force where whites do not make up the majority. In this city, whites make up 2% of the shooting crimes, blacks make up almost 75% of these crimes with hispanics filling in the majority of the gap to 100%.

Why is this? Serious question...

Data set proving what?

I don't exactly understand your question, but I'll try to answer it anyway, which is certainly more than you deserve considering you still haven't bothered to explain why you thought it was OK to make up quotes attributed to me that I didn't say and then pretend it didn't happen rather than apologize for it:

Are you asking why blacks commit a disproportionate share of the shooting crimes? I assume there's a variety of complicated factors, including a number of socioeconomic differences in addition to discrimination in policing, which is probably a relatively small direct factor but one that tends to perpetuate the other differences. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything. Nor do I have any idea what you think any of this proves.

Solid response.

As usual it was a waste of time to take you seriously and giving you the response you requested. My fault for momentarily giving you the benefit of the doubt.

It was appropriate, being that your two sentences are contradicting each other.

Can we blame the white man for these socioeconomic reasons, which I guess would be the white man's fault for the disproportionate amount of blacks being arrested for shooting people?

The sentences are not contradictory.

 

[fantasycurse42]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

 

[timschochet]

I've been confronted by police or game wardens a few times while I had a gun and it never amounted to anything. If the gun isn't visible I immediately tell law enforcment I have a gun (for example I may have a cased hunting shotgun under the backseat if pulled over for burnt out running light), if its visible and I'm holding the gun like when I'm hunting I put it down and walk away from it then show law enforcment my hunting license or whatever they want. All these confrontations were pleasant, at worst all I got a traffic warming, I never attempt to flee and it never turns into a running firefight.

If I ran, I suspect the confrontations would have been very unpleasant and I might be shot at, and if I brandished the weapon I'd probably be shot at.

Not getting shot is a pretty easy thing to do.

How many times do we have to read this post or one very similar?

Allow me to offer my own synopsis of this post:

I am a white guy. The police have always treated me well. I have no idea what it's like to be a black guy and I refuse to consider the notion that the police might treat me differently if I were black.. Whenever police stop me, I always obey instructions politely, and everything is cool. Therefore, this other dude must be at fault.

It'ds the same old garbage, and it never fails to get "good postings" or "yeps" from other white guys who feel exactly the same way, and can't imagine there is anything else (racism) going on here.

 

[TobiasFunke]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

That it is correct.

You seem to be making two assumptions: (1) that black cops can't be discriminatory in their work, and (2) that if white cops are in the minority they couldn't possibly do enough on their own to make the overall policing of the force discriminatory. If either of these assumptions is false your point (if I'm understanding it correctly) is invalid. I think they're both pretty clearly false.

 

[Road Warriors]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

Well, I know this wasn't meant for me, but I'd give an interpretation.

Discrimination, specifically in the context of TF's commentary, does not have to be based on "White man/black suspect" In fact, Tim consistently talks about "institutional racism" which is what I believe TF is referring to in the discrimination above. Police ( regardless of the race of the officers involved ) generally consider black men more likely to be dangerous/guilty/aggressive/fill in the blank for the current situation.

In that context, these are not in any way conflicting statements.

 

[fantasycurse42]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

Well, I know this wasn't meant for me, but I'd give an interpretation.

Discrimination, specifically in the context of TF's commentary, does not have to be based on "White man/black suspect" In fact, Tim consistently talks about "institutional racism" which is what I believe TF is referring to in the discrimination above. Police ( regardless of the race of the officers involved ) generally consider black men more likely to be dangerous/guilty/aggressive/fill in the blank for the current situation.

In that context, these are not in any way conflicting statements.

I think this might be why they feel that way.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I've been confronted by police or game wardens a few times while I had a gun and it never amounted to anything. If the gun isn't visible I immediately tell law enforcment I have a gun (for example I may have a cased hunting shotgun under the backseat if pulled over for burnt out running light), if its visible and I'm holding the gun like when I'm hunting I put it down and walk away from it then show law enforcment my hunting license or whatever they want. All these confrontations were pleasant, at worst all I got a traffic warming, I never attempt to flee and it never turns into a running firefight.

If I ran, I suspect the confrontations would have been very unpleasant and I might be shot at, and if I brandished the weapon I'd probably be shot at.

Not getting shot is a pretty easy thing to do.

How many times do we have to read this post or one very similar? Allow me to offer my own synopsis of this post:

I am a white guy. The police have always treated me well. I have no idea what it's like to be a black guy and I refuse to consider the notion that the police might treat me differently if I were black.. Whenever police stop me, I always obey instructions politely, and everything is cool. Therefore, this other dude must be at fault.

It'ds the same old garbage, and it never fails to get "good postings" or "yeps" from other white guys who feel exactly the same way, and can't imagine there is anything else (racism) going on here.

Because it's true?

Don't run

Don't be belligerent

Don't make sudden moves

Cooperate with the officer

Do those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple. I mean, there is always the chance that the officer was out to gun down a black guy in which case you're right.

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

 

[Road Warriors]

I've been confronted by police or game wardens a few times while I had a gun and it never amounted to anything. If the gun isn't visible I immediately tell law enforcment I have a gun (for example I may have a cased hunting shotgun under the backseat if pulled over for burnt out running light), if its visible and I'm holding the gun like when I'm hunting I put it down and walk away from it then show law enforcment my hunting license or whatever they want. All these confrontations were pleasant, at worst all I got a traffic warming, I never attempt to flee and it never turns into a running firefight.

If I ran, I suspect the confrontations would have been very unpleasant and I might be shot at, and if I brandished the weapon I'd probably be shot at.

Not getting shot is a pretty easy thing to do.

How many times do we have to read this post or one very similar? Allow me to offer my own synopsis of this post:

I am a white guy. The police have always treated me well. I have no idea what it's like to be a black guy and I refuse to consider the notion that the police might treat me differently if I were black.. Whenever police stop me, I always obey instructions politely, and everything is cool. Therefore, this other dude must be at fault.

It'ds the same old garbage, and it never fails to get "good postings" or "yeps" from other white guys who feel exactly the same way, and can't imagine there is anything else (racism) going on here.

Because it's true?

Don't run

Don't be belligerent

Don't make sudden moves

Cooperate with the officer

Don't be black

Do those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple. I mean, there is always the chance that the officer was out to gun down a black guy in which case you're right.

FYP

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

 

[Road Warriors]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

Well, I know this wasn't meant for me, but I'd give an interpretation.

Discrimination, specifically in the context of TF's commentary, does not have to be based on "White man/black suspect" In fact, Tim consistently talks about "institutional racism" which is what I believe TF is referring to in the discrimination above. Police ( regardless of the race of the officers involved ) generally consider black men more likely to be dangerous/guilty/aggressive/fill in the blank for the current situation.

In that context, these are not in any way conflicting statements.

I think this might be why they feel that way.

Understood. A higher percentage of crimes are committed by blacks according to the statistics.

Do you think that police, based on that knowledge, should treat all blacks they encounter as suspects?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

 

[StrikeS2k]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Note to Tim: Even white guys are at risk when encountering cops. See Doug Zerby. EVERYONE is potentially at risk when they have an encounter with a cop. You can debate whether blacks are more at risk, but the idea that whites do not have any risk is wrong.

 

[CBusAlex]

Because it's true?

Don't run

Don't be belligerent

Don't make sudden moves

Cooperate with the officer

Do those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple.

Not really. One guy got shot recently at a gas station for reacting too quickly when directed by an officer. Another guy got shot at a WalMart for not reacting quickly enough when directed by an officer. If the same thing you need to do to avoid getting shot in one case will end up getting you shot in another, depending on the mood and temperament of the officer involved, it's anything but "pretty simple".

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Note to Tim: Even white guys are at risk when encountering cops. See Doug Zerby. EVERYONE is potentially at risk when they have an encounter with a cop. You can debate whether blacks are more at risk, but the idea that whites do not have any risk is wrong.

No, YOU can debate it. To me it's not even an open question.

And for the record, I never wrote that a white guy couldn't be at risk. But the difference is, he's not at risk in any way because he's white. Black guys are at risk BECAUSE they're black, and this makes the police more suspicious of them.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

It's like "Groundhog Day" in here.

 

[fantasycurse42]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

Well, I know this wasn't meant for me, but I'd give an interpretation.Discrimination, specifically in the context of TF's commentary, does not have to be based on "White man/black suspect" In fact, Tim consistently talks about "institutional racism" which is what I believe TF is referring to in the discrimination above. Police ( regardless of the race of the officers involved ) generally consider black men more likely to be dangerous/guilty/aggressive/fill in the blank for the current situation.

In that context, these are not in any way conflicting statements.

I think this might be why they feel that way.

Understood. A higher percentage of crimes are committed by blacks according to the statistics. Do you think that police, based on that knowledge, should treat all blacks they encounter as suspects?

No, not do I think police treat all backs as suspects either.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running.

So they broke rule #1 of how to not get shot.

 

[TheWalkmen]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

Link to the details of the final investigation?

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

Link to the details of the final investigation?

There isn't one. Why is that?

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running.

So they broke rule #1 of how to not get shot.

They broke that a long time before- the day they were born African-American.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Because it's true?Don't runDon't be belligerentDon't make sudden movesCooperate with the officerDo those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple.

Not really. One guy got shot recently at a gas station for reacting too quickly when directed by an officer. Another guy got shot at a WalMart for not reacting quickly enough when directed by an officer. If the same thing you need to do to avoid getting shot in one case will end up getting you shot in another, depending on the mood and temperament of the officer involved, it's anything but "pretty simple".

Yes, the guy made a sudden move into his vehicle at the gas station. Not sure about the walmart story but wasn't a guy wandering around with a gun?

 

[Courtjester]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

So in the last case it is okay he is running--I mean just disregard he is shooting as he is running??

Additionally--you and I have no idea what happened in the Brown case at all because we don't know what the evidence is.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running.

So they broke rule #1 of how to not get shot.

They broke that a long time before- the day they were born African-American.

 

[Courtjester]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running.

So they broke rule #1 of how to not get shot.

They broke that a long time before- the day they were born African-American.

That is the gift that keeps on giving....

 

[TheWalkmen]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

Link to the details of the final investigation?

There isn't one. Why is that?

Weren't you in here like 2 hours ago telling others to wait for all the facts to come out? They can't speculate, but you can? Ok.

 

[StrikeS2k]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Note to Tim: Even white guys are at risk when encountering cops. See Doug Zerby. EVERYONE is potentially at risk when they have an encounter with a cop. You can debate whether blacks are more at risk, but the idea that whites do not have any risk is wrong.

No, YOU can debate it. To me it's not even an open question.

And for the record, I never wrote that a white guy couldn't be at risk. But the difference is, he's not at risk in any way because he's white. Black guys are at risk BECAUSE they're black, and this makes the police more suspicious of them.

Yeah, there has never been a racist cop that attacked a white guy just because he was white. It's NEVER happened.

 

[Road Warriors]

Because it's true?Don't runDon't be belligerentDon't make sudden movesCooperate with the officerDo those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple.

Not really. One guy got shot recently at a gas station for reacting too quickly when directed by an officer. Another guy got shot at a WalMart for not reacting quickly enough when directed by an officer. If the same thing you need to do to avoid getting shot in one case will end up getting you shot in another, depending on the mood and temperament of the officer involved, it's anything but "pretty simple".

Yes, the guy made a sudden move into his vehicle at the gas station. Not sure about the walmart story but wasn't a guy wandering around with a gun?

The gas station video doesn't exactly show the guy making what most would consider a "sudden move" or diving back into his car. It shows a guy asked to show ID reach to his back pocket, realize he doesn't have his wallet there, and lean into his car to retrieve it. IMO, if that's a white driver, there is no shots fired.

The Walmart situation isn't on the police, IMO. It's on the 911 caller who was feeding information to the police that made it appear that it was a much more dangerous situation than it appeared to be on the video. From the police perspective, they had a likely shooter threatening civilians. I understand that shooting given the circumstances we know.

 

[timschochet]

"There is discrimination in the policing. I have no idea what the racial makeup of the police force has to do with anything."

In a vacuum, what are your thoughts on my quote?

Well, I know this wasn't meant for me, but I'd give an interpretation.Discrimination, specifically in the context of TF's commentary, does not have to be based on "White man/black suspect" In fact, Tim consistently talks about "institutional racism" which is what I believe TF is referring to in the discrimination above. Police ( regardless of the race of the officers involved ) generally consider black men more likely to be dangerous/guilty/aggressive/fill in the blank for the current situation.

In that context, these are not in any way conflicting statements.

I think this might be why they feel that way.

Understood. A higher percentage of crimes are committed by blacks according to the statistics. Do you think that police, based on that knowledge, should treat all blacks they encounter as suspects?

No, not do I think police treat all backs as suspects either.

This is absolutely true, fantasycurse. And I want you (and everyone else) to understand what I'm saying here; I'm a little tired of being misconstrued. I do NOT believe that police go into these situations with the intent of gunning down black people. I do NOT believe that most police are consciously hostile toward black people. I believe most police sincerely want to protect the public, sincerely are not consciously racist, sincerely want to do the right thing, sincerely want to defeat the bad guys among us. Being a policeman is a noble profession, and should be honored, not maligned, in most cases.

But I also believe that police are subconsciously inclined to look at young black men with more suspicion than they do any other ethnic grouping in our society- I don't think this is their fault. I would suggest that we're all at fault for doing the same thing- the only difference is that the police are required to keep law and order, so they have a greater responsibility than the rest of us not to be lazy with stereotypes. And these situations develop when that laziness arises, and cops act stupid, and then try to cover it up.

Did Darren Wilson purposefully murder Michael Brown that night? I doubt it. I think he got scared and screwed up, and the Ferguson police loyally tried to cover up his mistake. And now we're all paying for it.

 

[timschochet]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

Link to the details of the final investigation?

There isn't one. Why is that?

Weren't you in here like 2 hours ago telling others to wait for all the facts to come out? They can't speculate, but you can? Ok.

In the case of Wilson and Brown, I'm not speculating so much as I'm responding to some of the absurd speculations of others. But based on what we know, I think I have a pretty good idea of what likely did NOT happen...

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Because it's true?Don't runDon't be belligerentDon't make sudden movesCooperate with the officerDo those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple.

Not really. One guy got shot recently at a gas station for reacting too quickly when directed by an officer. Another guy got shot at a WalMart for not reacting quickly enough when directed by an officer. If the same thing you need to do to avoid getting shot in one case will end up getting you shot in another, depending on the mood and temperament of the officer involved, it's anything but "pretty simple".

Yes, the guy made a sudden move into his vehicle at the gas station. Not sure about the walmart story but wasn't a guy wandering around with a gun?

The gas station video doesn't exactly show the guy making what most would consider a "sudden move" or diving back into his car. It shows a guy asked to show ID reach to his back pocket, realize he doesn't have his wallet there, and lean into his car to retrieve it. IMO, if that's a white driver, there is no shots fired.The Walmart situation isn't on the police, IMO. It's on the 911 caller who was feeding information to the police that made it appear that it was a much more dangerous situation than it appeared to be on the video. From the police perspective, they had a likely shooter threatening civilians. I understand that shooting given the circumstances we know.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the officer was completely at fault/wrong at the gas station. But watching the video, to me it looked like a pretty quick, unnatural move into the vehicle. He moves normally and the schizo officer likely doesn't shoot unless he is out for blood.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Because it's true?Don't runDon't be belligerentDon't make sudden movesCooperate with the officerDo those things and you don't get shot. Pretty simple.

Not really. One guy got shot recently at a gas station for reacting too quickly when directed by an officer. Another guy got shot at a WalMart for not reacting quickly enough when directed by an officer. If the same thing you need to do to avoid getting shot in one case will end up getting you shot in another, depending on the mood and temperament of the officer involved, it's anything but "pretty simple".

Yes, the guy made a sudden move into his vehicle at the gas station. Not sure about the walmart story but wasn't a guy wandering around with a gun?

The gas station video doesn't exactly show the guy making what most would consider a "sudden move" or diving back into his car. It shows a guy asked to show ID reach to his back pocket, realize he doesn't have his wallet there, and lean into his car to retrieve it. IMO, if that's a white driver, there is no shots fired.The Walmart situation isn't on the police, IMO. It's on the 911 caller who was feeding information to the police that made it appear that it was a much more dangerous situation than it appeared to be on the video. From the police perspective, they had a likely shooter threatening civilians. I understand that shooting given the circumstances we know.

The Wal-Mart situation is still on the police. They had an obligation to establish the facts of the situation independent of what an uncorroborated phone call tells them before they go in guns a blazin.

 

[Jim11]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

Link to the details of the final investigation?

There isn't one. Why is that?

Weren't you in here like 2 hours ago telling others to wait for all the facts to come out? They can't speculate, but you can? Ok.

In the case of Wilson and Brown, I'm not speculating so much as I'm responding to some of the absurd speculations of others. But based on what we know, I think I have a pretty good idea of what likely did NOT happen...

Tim, take a stroll through the south side of Chicago some Saturday night and see if you're discriminated against. I'm guessing your chances of being discriminated against are greater than a random black male being discriminated against by a random police officer.

 

[chauncey]

I haven't paid any attention to this story or this thread, did the cop kill this kid or just shoot him?

 

[Road Warriors]

I haven't paid any attention to this story or this thread, did the cop kill this kid or just shoot him

Ferguson - killed

StL - killed

StL - killed

Columbia, SC - shot

These others have all hit the news since the Michael Brown shooting.

 

[jonessed]

It isn't true because even if you do all of those things, if you're a young black man , you're still at risk.

Based on your experience as a young black man?

no, based on young black men's experiences as young black men.

Just to clarify, the two kids killed in Ferguson were running, right? Maybe I missed some new information.

Yes, they were running. They ran from the police, probably in part because they were scared, probably in part because they were thugs. Does either justify shooting one in the back? (Unless you believe, as some here apparently do, that Michael Brown turned around and from a distance of 30 feet, unarmed, started charging a policeman who was firing bullets at him.)

Link to the details of the final investigation?

There isn't one. Why is that?

Weren't you in here like 2 hours ago telling others to wait for all the facts to come out? They can't speculate, but you can? Ok.

In the case of Wilson and Brown, I'm not speculating so much as I'm responding to some of the absurd speculations of others. But based on what we know, I think I have a pretty good idea of what likely did NOT happen...

 

[Widbil83]

Hey guys...

I have it on good authority the kid was actuallly just trying to sell candybars for his basketball team when the officer walked up to him and beat him with a baton for a while trying to provoke him, then when he wouldn't act up, the cop emptied his magazine in him while yelling "Die Die Die Black Man" and laughing maniacally.

It's time to steal some ham from the corner deli.

wtf? Is this supposed to be funny?

I think it's pretty obvious he was trying to parody MSNBC and other media who don't wait for any facts and try to paint the person involved as a choir boy.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Bogey, good job pointing out the double standards people use when discussing prior behavior/charges/convictions for people involved in all of these stories.

It is irrelevant for one side, but a precise indicator for future behavior on the other. It's one of the more frustrating trends in topics like this.

 

[Ghost Rider]

On the way home from a friend's last night, I saw a deer on a side road and hit the brights for about 20 seconds in case there were any more (so I could see them better), and naturally passed by a cop in that 20-second span, who proceeded to do a u-turn and pull me over. Amazingly, he didn't accost me, try to shoot me or act like a #### in any fashion. I was friendly, kept my hands on the steering wheel and immediately said, "I had my brights on, right?", and he was really cool about it. No ticket or anything, just a friendly "you shouldn't do that cause it makes it harder for drivers that pass by you who might be blinded by your brights to see the deer" remark. I agreed, he wished me a good night, and we both went on our way.

Of course, I'm white, so that made all the difference, right?

 

[Jim11]

On the way home from a friend's last night, I saw a deer on a side road and hit the brights for about 20 seconds in case there were any more (so I could see them better), and naturally passed by a cop in that 20-second span, who proceeded to do a u-turn and pull me over. Amazingly, he didn't accost me, try to shoot me or act like a #### in any fashion. I was friendly, kept my hands on the steering wheel and immediately said, "I had my brights on, right?", and he was really cool about it. No ticket or anything, just a friendly "you shouldn't do that cause it makes it harder for drivers that pass by you who might be blinded by your brights to see the deer" remark. I agreed, he wished me a good night, and we both went on our way.

Of course, I'm white, so that made all the difference, right?

Yes, had you been black and acted in the exact same manner, he would have shot you on the spot.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I had a very different experience than Ghost Rider. I was walking up the street smoking a blunt, I then urinated on a parked cop car. It's a shame I didn't notice but there were cops inside of it. They asked me to drop the blunt and raise my hands, so I spit in their face and ran. I got my ### kicked by about 9 cops and arrested, the balls of these on pigs! I'm out on bail right now and just trying to figure out what I could've done differently.

 

[Hilts]

Does anyone think merely being black has zero impact on how they're often profiled/treated?