Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (5 Viewers)

[timschochet]

For those who think there will be rioting if Wilson is not charged, do you think there will be rioting if he is?

I can see a charge/conviction affirming what they've already been rioting about.

No.And I want to note that in terms of rioting, I suspect the charge is more important than the conviction. I think that if Zimmerman had not been charged, there would have been riots. But when Zimmerman was acquitted, there were no riots. That's because what the people who call for "no justice no peace" truly want is for the system to work for them. So long as there is a trial, the system is working. If there is no trial, then they are likely to think there was a scam or a whitewash. Now I realize that there was an exception to this with the Rodney King riots of 20 years ago. But there was a video that everyone had seen, and that makes all the difference.

Again, I also want to emphasize that the VAST MAJORITY of those who have protested what's happened here will NOT riot. They will continue to organize, march peacefully, and express their views without breaking the law. Yes, I fear if Wilson isn't charged there's bound to be some hotheads who will do something stupid. But to group them together with the peaceful protestors is a terrible thing to do, and far too many people in this thread are doing exactly that.

How do you know this? How many protesters do you think there are (or have been) and how many do you think have acted in a manner not considered peaceful...by the standards of not breaking laws, yelling racist comments, etc.

Tim has never let silly facts or reality get in the way if him speaking with authority on any topic he has no affiliation/background in whatsoever.

You may live in St Louis and have firsthand experience, but Tim has an internet connection.

New here?

i don't think that I need to prove that most of the demonstrators were or will be committing acts of violence. Never in our history have any majority of organized protestors been involved in violence, and this is especially true in civil rights issues. The fact that the two of you would even see this as a possibility is very telling.

I don't think it's a vast majority. I posted a link and mentioned there were 50 protesters at the PD. In one of the pictures, 3 people appear to be yelling at the police. That's an estimate of 6% as an absolute minimum. I would say it is likely that more than 3 people were acting disorderly. I'd estimate a minimum of at least 3 more based on pictures and comments, so I would estimate a minimum of 12% of the protesters in this instance acting in less than a peaceful manner.

So you've now seen some of my math and estimates. I think 12% is a lot. Do you think 12% is a lot? Is my estimate out of line? I think the ratio of out-of-line protesters to peaceful protesters is much higher than a normal outlier-to-the-group ratio. I simply asked you where you're coming up with a VAST majority?

12% is fine. That large a number is indeed troubling. But I would regard. 88% as a vast majority.

 

[timschochet]

For those who think there will be rioting if Wilson is not charged, do you think there will be rioting if he is?

I can see a charge/conviction affirming what they've already been rioting about.

No.And I want to note that in terms of rioting, I suspect the charge is more important than the conviction. I think that if Zimmerman had not been charged, there would have been riots. But when Zimmerman was acquitted, there were no riots. That's because what the people who call for "no justice no peace" truly want is for the system to work for them. So long as there is a trial, the system is working. If there is no trial, then they are likely to think there was a scam or a whitewash. Now I realize that there was an exception to this with the Rodney King riots of 20 years ago. But there was a video that everyone had seen, and that makes all the difference.

Again, I also want to emphasize that the VAST MAJORITY of those who have protested what's happened here will NOT riot. They will continue to organize, march peacefully, and express their views without breaking the law. Yes, I fear if Wilson isn't charged there's bound to be some hotheads who will do something stupid. But to group them together with the peaceful protestors is a terrible thing to do, and far too many people in this thread are doing exactly that.

How do you know this? How many protesters do you think there are (or have been) and how many do you think have acted in a manner not considered peaceful...by the standards of not breaking laws, yelling racist comments, etc.

Tim has never let silly facts or reality get in the way if him speaking with authority on any topic he has no affiliation/background in whatsoever.

You may live in St Louis and have firsthand experience, but Tim has an internet connection.

New here?

i don't think that I need to prove that most of the demonstrators were or will be committing acts of violence. Never in our history have any majority of organized protestors been involved in violence, and this is especially true in civil rights issues. The fact that the two of you would even see this as a possibility is very telling.

omg

this is absolutely true. I challenge you to give a example which contradicts it.

 

[mcintyre1]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

 

[TheWalkmen]

For those who think there will be rioting if Wilson is not charged, do you think there will be rioting if he is?

I can see a charge/conviction affirming what they've already been rioting about.

No.And I want to note that in terms of rioting, I suspect the charge is more important than the conviction. I think that if Zimmerman had not been charged, there would have been riots. But when Zimmerman was acquitted, there were no riots. That's because what the people who call for "no justice no peace" truly want is for the system to work for them. So long as there is a trial, the system is working. If there is no trial, then they are likely to think there was a scam or a whitewash. Now I realize that there was an exception to this with the Rodney King riots of 20 years ago. But there was a video that everyone had seen, and that makes all the difference.

Again, I also want to emphasize that the VAST MAJORITY of those who have protested what's happened here will NOT riot. They will continue to organize, march peacefully, and express their views without breaking the law. Yes, I fear if Wilson isn't charged there's bound to be some hotheads who will do something stupid. But to group them together with the peaceful protestors is a terrible thing to do, and far too many people in this thread are doing exactly that.

How do you know this? How many protesters do you think there are (or have been) and how many do you think have acted in a manner not considered peaceful...by the standards of not breaking laws, yelling racist comments, etc.

Tim has never let silly facts or reality get in the way if him speaking with authority on any topic he has no affiliation/background in whatsoever.

You may live in St Louis and have firsthand experience, but Tim has an internet connection.

New here?

i don't think that I need to prove that most of the demonstrators were or will be committing acts of violence. Never in our history have any majority of organized protestors been involved in violence, and this is especially true in civil rights issues. The fact that the two of you would even see this as a possibility is very telling.

I don't think it's a vast majority. I posted a link and mentioned there were 50 protesters at the PD. In one of the pictures, 3 people appear to be yelling at the police. That's an estimate of 6% as an absolute minimum. I would say it is likely that more than 3 people were acting disorderly. I'd estimate a minimum of at least 3 more based on pictures and comments, so I would estimate a minimum of 12% of the protesters in this instance acting in less than a peaceful manner.

So you've now seen some of my math and estimates. I think 12% is a lot. Do you think 12% is a lot? Is my estimate out of line? I think the ratio of out-of-line protesters to peaceful protesters is much higher than a normal outlier-to-the-group ratio. I simply asked you where you're coming up with a VAST majority?

12% is fine. That large a number is indeed troubling. But I would regard. 88% as a vast majority.

I think it's higher, like 20%, but that's a guess and you don't know either. And while 80% might by definition be a vast majority, that is IMO an extremely large percentage of protesters to be acting in a non-peaceful manner.

 

[StrikeS2k]

For those who think there will be rioting if Wilson is not charged, do you think there will be rioting if he is?

I can see a charge/conviction affirming what they've already been rioting about.

No.And I want to note that in terms of rioting, I suspect the charge is more important than the conviction. I think that if Zimmerman had not been charged, there would have been riots. But when Zimmerman was acquitted, there were no riots. That's because what the people who call for "no justice no peace" truly want is for the system to work for them. So long as there is a trial, the system is working. If there is no trial, then they are likely to think there was a scam or a whitewash. Now I realize that there was an exception to this with the Rodney King riots of 20 years ago. But there was a video that everyone had seen, and that makes all the difference.

Again, I also want to emphasize that the VAST MAJORITY of those who have protested what's happened here will NOT riot. They will continue to organize, march peacefully, and express their views without breaking the law. Yes, I fear if Wilson isn't charged there's bound to be some hotheads who will do something stupid. But to group them together with the peaceful protestors is a terrible thing to do, and far too many people in this thread are doing exactly that.

How do you know this? How many protesters do you think there are (or have been) and how many do you think have acted in a manner not considered peaceful...by the standards of not breaking laws, yelling racist comments, etc.

Tim has never let silly facts or reality get in the way if him speaking with authority on any topic he has no affiliation/background in whatsoever.

You may live in St Louis and have firsthand experience, but Tim has an internet connection.

New here?

i don't think that I need to prove that most of the demonstrators were or will be committing acts of violence. Never in our history have any majority of organized protestors been involved in violence, and this is especially true in civil rights issues. The fact that the two of you would even see this as a possibility is very telling.

I don't think it's a vast majority. I posted a link and mentioned there were 50 protesters at the PD. In one of the pictures, 3 people appear to be yelling at the police. That's an estimate of 6% as an absolute minimum. I would say it is likely that more than 3 people were acting disorderly. I'd estimate a minimum of at least 3 more based on pictures and comments, so I would estimate a minimum of 12% of the protesters in this instance acting in less than a peaceful manner.

So you've now seen some of my math and estimates. I think 12% is a lot. Do you think 12% is a lot? Is my estimate out of line? I think the ratio of out-of-line protesters to peaceful protesters is much higher than a normal outlier-to-the-group ratio. I simply asked you where you're coming up with a VAST majority?

12% is fine. That large a number is indeed troubling. But I would regard. 88% as a vast majority.

I think it's higher, like 20%, but that's a guess and you don't know either. And while 80% might by definition be a vast majority, that is IMO an extremely large percentage of protesters to be acting in a non-peaceful manner.

Oh, Tim knows. Trust me.

 

[timschochet]

Look Walkmen, 20%, even 6%, is a disturbing number. It's a lot of people and if they riot and do damage, it's going to be sad and terrible and people will get hurt, and nobody wants to see that (except maybe GrandpaRox). I just wanted to stress that it wouldn't be the majority, not close to the majority. It never is. If you object to my use of the word "vast", fine.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

 

[Henry Ford]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

 

[mcintyre1]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

 

[timschochet]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

As absurd as that sounds, it doesn't compare to the theory that a few people have put forward here: that AFTER running away, Brown turned around, and from 20-30 feet away, facing a police officer pointing a gun at him, he abruptly decided to charge at Wilson. That's one crazy mother####er.

 

[rick6668]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

As absurd as that sounds, it doesn't compare to the theory that a few people have put forward here: that AFTER running away, Brown turned around, and from 20-30 feet away, facing a police officer pointing a gun at him, he abruptly decided to charge at Wilson. That's one crazy mother####er.

So absurd that one witness even said the same.

"Next thing I know he's coming back towards the police. The police had his gun drawn on him. Police kept dumping on him, I'm thinking that the police missed him." The bystander said that he heard "at least five shots". He continued, "I think ... dude start running, kept coming toward the police."

 

[mcintyre1]

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

Brown had the option to, I don't know, run when the store clerk confronted him. Brown chose to try to intimidate the clerk via force rather than run.

Plus, Brown was fat. He probably couldn't run fast. He likely knew that he couldn't outrun the cop, but he also knew he didn't want to get arrested for stealing the cigarillos. So why not try to land a knockout blow to render the cop unconscious so he could get away if he already showed, just minutes earlier, that he was willing to use force to achieve a criminal goal.

Really, really, REALLY big difference between intimidating a small unarmed man with a shove and deciding to "knockout punch" a large, armed police officer. 6'4" 292 lbs is pretty fat, but that doesn't also mean that he couldn't have run away. It isn't like he'd be running a marathon against the cop, he just needs to lose visual contact and find a place to hide. Plus if they both run in different directions, the cop can only follow one of them. In the videos I've seen of the area, there are multiple large apartment buildings he could have slipped in to to try to hide or lose contact.

Again, I'm not saying it isn't possible that Brown decided to slug the cop, I just don't think it'd be option #1.

 

[mcintyre1]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

As absurd as that sounds, it doesn't compare to the theory that a few people have put forward here: that AFTER running away, Brown turned around, and from 20-30 feet away, facing a police officer pointing a gun at him, he abruptly decided to charge at Wilson. That's one crazy mother####er.

So absurd that one witness even said the same.

"Next thing I know he's coming back towards the police. The police had his gun drawn on him. Police kept dumping on him, I'm thinking that the police missed him." The bystander said that he heard "at least five shots". He continued, "I think ... dude start running, kept coming toward the police."

I assume you're referring to this video and the man speaking, barely audible at times, in the background. Listening to what he says myself (its very hard to hear, as people are shouting when he says it), I hear (From 7:10 on): "and like, like... (shouting bleeds out audio, but you can hear the man is still talking) next thing I know (man interrupts to ask 'the police shot him?') yeah, yeah, next thing I know (inaudible from yelling about lack of ambulances) he starts running, and then he come toward the police."

That entire line of conversation was in reference to another man asking why his body was facing the way it was. I didn't interpret any of what that man said to imply that Brown was running TOWARD the police, only that he ran, then turned back before he died, which is completely consistent with other witness testimony. Considering this is the only real 'evidence' I've heard for Brown charging at the police, forgive me if I brush that claim off as ludicrous, given the quality of the audio from which it was drawn.

It is also telling to me that the man describes Brown as "running" away multiple times, but every time (two, that I can hear) he mentions Brown moving back toward Wilson, he says "coming back" not "ran back" or "charged back." As a listener, that implies different speeds, to me.

 

[Jim11]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

There's somewhat of a difference between trying to haul a 300 lb person through a car window and grabbing some kid by the shirt. Incredibly enough, Frick & Frack think the officer tried to do that.

I'm sure that the officer thought...I know, I'll pull this guy into my vehicle through the window here; yeah, that's a good plan.

 

[rick6668]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

As absurd as that sounds, it doesn't compare to the theory that a few people have put forward here: that AFTER running away, Brown turned around, and from 20-30 feet away, facing a police officer pointing a gun at him, he abruptly decided to charge at Wilson. That's one crazy mother####er.

So absurd that one witness even said the same.

"Next thing I know he's coming back towards the police. The police had his gun drawn on him. Police kept dumping on him, I'm thinking that the police missed him." The bystander said that he heard "at least five shots". He continued, "I think ... dude start running, kept coming toward the police."

I assume you're referring to this video and the man speaking, barely audible at times, in the background. Listening to what he says myself (its very hard to hear, as people are shouting when he says it), I hear (From 7:10 on): "and like, like... (shouting bleeds out audio, but you can hear the man is still talking) next thing I know (man interrupts to ask 'the police shot him?') yeah, yeah, next thing I know (inaudible from yelling about lack of ambulances) he starts running, and then he come toward the police."

That entire line of conversation was in reference to another man asking why his body was facing the way it was. I didn't interpret any of what that man said to imply that Brown was running TOWARD the police, only that he ran, then turned back before he died, which is completely consistent with other witness testimony. Considering this is the only real 'evidence' I've heard for Brown charging at the police, forgive me if I brush that claim off as ludicrous, given the quality of the audio from which it was drawn.

It is also telling to me that the man describes Brown as "running" away multiple times, but every time (two, that I can hear) he mentions Brown moving back toward Wilson, he says "coming back" not "ran back" or "charged back." As a listener, that implies different speeds, to me.

I don't give it any more weight than any other witness claims. You can choose to dismiss or make up whatever you like. Sounded like he said that to me

Not sure it should be thought of as absurd.

 

[mcintyre1]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

There's somewhat of a difference between trying to haul a 300 lb person through a car window and grabbing some kid by the shirt. Incredibly enough, Frick & Frack think the officer tried to do that.

I'm sure that the officer thought...I know, I'll pull this guy into my vehicle through the window here; yeah, that's a good plan.

Oh, Jim, you're so simple. It is kind of charming.

EDIT: Also love the ~80 year old cultural references. Pretty fitting with the rest of you.

 

[Jim11]

And then there's this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown fought for control of the officer’s gun, and Wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager after he moved toward the officer as they faced off in the street, according to interviews, news accounts and the full report of the St. Louis County autopsy of Brown’s body.

Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.

 

[mcintyre1]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

There's somewhat of a difference between trying to haul a 300 lb person through a car window and grabbing some kid by the shirt. Incredibly enough, Frick & Frack think the officer tried to do that.

I'm sure that the officer thought...I know, I'll pull this guy into my vehicle through the window here; yeah, that's a good plan.

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

Just for you Jim. But yeah, go ahead and believe what you want to believe, facts be damned, like you always do.

 

[lod01]

The witness said the officer pulled up right next to them and opened his door rapidly, which bounced off Brown and slammed shut. If we accept that happened, the officer could have thought Brown slammed the door on him (and Brown may have) and reached through the open window and grabbed Brown, which is what the witness said happened. From there, the struggle could have ensued. It sounds perfectly reasonable and not comical at all.

That witness is going to get his ### handed to him on a platter if the prosecution is dumb enough to put him on the stand.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I've been out of this topic and off the news grid for a while. Forgive me for not struggling through the 108 pages.

What's the status here? Is the cop going to not get indicted at this point, or it's still up in the air?

Are the forumites sticking to their original views of what happened, or have minds been changed?

 

[Jim11]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

There's somewhat of a difference between trying to haul a 300 lb person through a car window and grabbing some kid by the shirt. Incredibly enough, Frick & Frack think the officer tried to do that.

I'm sure that the officer thought...I know, I'll pull this guy into my vehicle through the window here; yeah, that's a good plan.

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

Just for you Jim. But yeah, go ahead and believe what you want to believe, facts be damned, like you always do.

You know, Frick...or are you Frack?...you need to come up with some new material. Try something plausible next time.

 

[mcintyre1]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

There's somewhat of a difference between trying to haul a 300 lb person through a car window and grabbing some kid by the shirt. Incredibly enough, Frick & Frack think the officer tried to do that.

I'm sure that the officer thought...I know, I'll pull this guy into my vehicle through the window here; yeah, that's a good plan.

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

Just for you Jim. But yeah, go ahead and believe what you want to believe, facts be damned, like you always do.

You know, Frick...or are you Frack?...you need to come up with some new material. Try something plausible next time.

?

 

[Jim11]

I've been out of this topic and off the news grid for a while. Forgive me for not struggling through the 108 pages.

What's the status here? Is the cop going to not get indicted at this point, or it's still up in the air?

Are the forumites sticking to their original views of what happened, or have minds been changed?

A short synopsis:

- The officer is highly unlikely to be charged

- Brown's family and friends threaten to blow up St. Louis if he isn't

- Frick & Frack continue to come up with possibilities that even a 7 yr old would laugh at.

 

[fantasycurse42]

So evidence is starting leak out from sources such as the Washington Post that this was justifiable??? Time to go steal a TV

 

[Sand]

I've been out of this topic and off the news grid for a while. Forgive me for not struggling through the 108 pages.

What's the status here? Is the cop going to not get indicted at this point, or it's still up in the air?

Are the forumites sticking to their original views of what happened, or have minds been changed?

It is looking less likely here. The new information coming out is almost certainly a planned leak to try and diffuse public outrage when this thing fades away.

 

[mcintyre1]

I've been out of this topic and off the news grid for a while. Forgive me for not struggling through the 108 pages.

What's the status here? Is the cop going to not get indicted at this point, or it's still up in the air?

Are the forumites sticking to their original views of what happened, or have minds been changed?

A short synopsis:

- The officer is highly unlikely to be charged

- Brown's family and friends threaten to blow up St. Louis if he isn't

- Frick & Frack continue to come up with possibilities that even a 7 yr old would laugh at.

And Jim believes that no one in the history of the world has grabbed someone through a car window because... forcefields, I guess? It can be hard to tell with Jim.

But aside from that, yeah, I actually agree with him kind of. Unfortunately looks like we're headed for more unrest.

And I should probably figure out who Frack is... seems like we'd get along.

 

[avoiding injuries]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

Do we know how big Wilson is for sure? He looks to be no small man himself (standing a head taller than his family and friends at his wedding), and he's no string bean in the pictures of him standing over Brown's body. Why are you insisting that Wilson would be "pulling Brown through the window"?

I am insisting on nothing. I am trying to understand. Though I do admit I am incredulous at the theory you are implying and did let my incredulity color the tone of my post.

I guess you could say that I'm just as incredulous of the theory that an 18 year old black man who lives in a racially charged neighborhood, is unarmed, and just stole a box of cigarillos is going to try to knock a police officer unconscious through a window rather than, I don't know, run? Yeah, it's possible, but I'm not buying it as the likely sequence of events given the differing accounts of witnesses and the huge incentive Wilson has for pushing that narrative.

I can appreciate your position on the apparent story forming to be proffered for our consumption. That said I do not understand championing the preposterous as a way of doing so. Still, I suppose your tack may prove effective with some, I have seen it offered elsewhere so its appeal must exist, whether it eludes me or not.

BTW I agree with you that the tape of the one "witness" can be interpreted as you say. The linguistic parsing of "run" and "come", within mere seconds of each other also struck me. I have also speculated that the man saw nothing, and was making his story up and was searching for information, inserting it in his story as he went along, and his story literally shifted during the telling. Tough to know what, if any value he might add to the accounting given the quality of the tape and my poor hearing.

I continue to watch and wait. I believe I still want to hear about blood spatter evidence and shell casing location.

 

[lod01]

And then there's this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown fought for control of the officer’s gun, and Wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager after he moved toward the officer as they faced off in the street, according to interviews, news accounts and the full report of the St. Louis County autopsy of Brown’s body.

Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.

It's pretty sad when telling the truth has you in fear for your safety.

 

[timschochet]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

 

[avoiding injuries]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

If the shooting wasn't justified, shouldn't he be charged?

 

[Stinger Ray]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder.

You are so blinded!

 

[lod01]

It's great when forensic evidence exposes so called 'eyewitnesses' as total liars. On top of that some honest citizens with no agenda backing it up. Quite a few of you look totally ridiculous as this comes to a close. Seems the evidence coming out now supports how some of us logical people called it.

Now let's get ready to watch some rioting.

 

[timschochet]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

If the shooting wasn't justified, shouldn't he be charged?

No. I explained this in detail in a previous post. First off, while I believe the shooting was unjustified, there's not enough evidence IMO to prove that in a court of law.

More importantly, I think he reacted emotionally. I think he lost his cool, which a police officer should not do. But he shouldn't go to jail for that. I would, however, fire him from the police force.

 

[timschochet]

And then there's this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Ferguson, Mo., police officer Darren Wilson and Michael Brown fought for control of the officer’s gun, and Wilson fatally shot the unarmed teenager after he moved toward the officer as they faced off in the street, according to interviews, news accounts and the full report of the St. Louis County autopsy of Brown’s body.

Seven or eight African American eyewitnesses have provided testimony consistent with Wilson’s account, but none of them have spoken publicly out of fear for their safety, The Washington Post’s sources said.

It's pretty sad when telling the truth has you in fear for your safety.

Not just their safety, but their status as authentically black. Simply put, those witnesses who very likely live in Ferguson know full well that they'd be viewed as race traitors by many of the Ferguson protestors if it became public that their testimony supported Darren Wilson.

Gosh, Olaf seems to love to speak for black people here. Are you reading this Ditkaless Wonders? Does it offend you to your very core? If not, I wonder why.

 

[Stinger Ray]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

If the shooting wasn't justified, shouldn't he be charged?

No. I explained this in detail in a previous post. First off, while I believe the shooting was unjustified, there's not enough evidence IMO to prove that in a court of law.More importantly, I think he reacted emotionally. I think he lost his cool, which a police officer should not do. But he shouldn't go to jail for that. I would, however, fire him from the police force.

Emotionally how? Scared for his safety? Or emotionally because Wilson was black?

 

[timschochet]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

If the shooting wasn't justified, shouldn't he be charged?

No. I explained this in detail in a previous post. First off, while I believe the shooting was unjustified, there's not enough evidence IMO to prove that in a court of law.More importantly, I think he reacted emotionally. I think he lost his cool, which a police officer should not do. But he shouldn't go to jail for that. I would, however, fire him from the police force.

Emotionally how? Scared for his safety? Or emotionally because Wilson was black?

Here's what I wrote the other day. You judge for yourself:

At this point, Wilson killed Brown. Which is perfectly understandable. Brown had tried to kill Wilson. You or I in such a situation, with a gun in our hands, would probably act the same way. I'm sure Wilson was terrified and enraged. And I strongly doubt he was making any racial consideration whatsoever. He was simply thinking, or FEELING: this guy just tried to kill me, he was going to kill me, I can't let him get away. And so Wilson lost his cool and fired. But policemen must be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. HE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO LOSE HIS COOL. That's an easier thing to say than to do. Realistically, cops lose their cool all the time.

 

[squistion]

Not just their safety, but their status as authentically black. Simply put, those witnesses who very likely live in Ferguson know full well that they'd be viewed as race traitors by many of the Ferguson protestors if it became public that their testimony supported Darren Wilson.

Gosh, Olaf seems to love to speak for black people here. Are you reading this Ditkaless Wonders? Does it offend you to your very core? If not, I wonder why.

Yeah, who does he think he is, Peens? Oh, wait...

 

[jonessed]

Not just their safety, but their status as authentically black. Simply put, those witnesses who very likely live in Ferguson know full well that they'd be viewed as race traitors by many of the Ferguson protestors if it became public that their testimony supported Darren Wilson.

Gosh, Olaf seems to love to speak for black people here. Are you reading this Ditkaless Wonders? Does it offend you to your very core? If not, I wonder why.

Yeah, who does he think he is, Peens? Oh, wait...

I think he knows some guys in a barbershop.

 

[Stinger Ray]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

If the shooting wasn't justified, shouldn't he be charged?

No. I explained this in detail in a previous post. First off, while I believe the shooting was unjustified, there's not enough evidence IMO to prove that in a court of law.More importantly, I think he reacted emotionally. I think he lost his cool, which a police officer should not do. But he shouldn't go to jail for that. I would, however, fire him from the police force.

Emotionally how? Scared for his safety? Or emotionally because Wilson was black?

Here's what I wrote the other day. You judge for yourself:At this point, Wilson killed Brown. Which is perfectly understandable. Brown had tried to kill Wilson. You or I in such a situation, with a gun in our hands, would probably act the same way. I'm sure Wilson was terrified and enraged. And I strongly doubt he was making any racial consideration whatsoever. He was simply thinking, or FEELING: this guy just tried to kill me, he was going to kill me, I can't let him get away. And so Wilson lost his cool and fired. But policemen must be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. HE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO LOSE HIS COOL. That's an easier thing to say than to do. Realistically, cops lose their cool all the time.

Huh?? So in this post you are admitting that Brown tried to kill Wilson yet Wilson should not have shot him fearing he could still be in danger...not to mention when you try and kill a cop good things usually don't happen.

 

[timschochet]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

mine has. Up until a few days ago I thought Wilson was likely guilty of murder. Now I do not. I still have trouble finding the shooting to be justifiable, but I no longer think he should be charged with anything.

If the shooting wasn't justified, shouldn't he be charged?

No. I explained this in detail in a previous post. First off, while I believe the shooting was unjustified, there's not enough evidence IMO to prove that in a court of law.More importantly, I think he reacted emotionally. I think he lost his cool, which a police officer should not do. But he shouldn't go to jail for that. I would, however, fire him from the police force.

Emotionally how? Scared for his safety? Or emotionally because Wilson was black?

Here's what I wrote the other day. You judge for yourself:At this point, Wilson killed Brown. Which is perfectly understandable. Brown had tried to kill Wilson. You or I in such a situation, with a gun in our hands, would probably act the same way. I'm sure Wilson was terrified and enraged. And I strongly doubt he was making any racial consideration whatsoever. He was simply thinking, or FEELING: this guy just tried to kill me, he was going to kill me, I can't let him get away. And so Wilson lost his cool and fired. But policemen must be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. HE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO LOSE HIS COOL. That's an easier thing to say than to do. Realistically, cops lose their cool all the time.

Huh?? So in this post you are admitting that Brown tried to kill Wilson yet Wilson should not have shot him fearing he could still be in danger...not to mention when you try and kill a cop good things usually don't happen.

First off I'm not admitting anything. I wrote what I think happened. I have no proof, no evidence, and if evidence appears that would contradict this, it would cause me to reassess my thoughts, as it should everyone here.

Second, based on what I THINK may have happened, once Brown fled from Wilson, he was not a threat to Wilson. When Wilson shot at him, according to most eyewitnesses, Brown stopped. At that point he was unarmed, not a threat to Wilson, and not a threat to anyone else either. Wilson, as a result of his fear and rage, shot Brown to death. The whole thing happened so quickly that I understand it. As I wrote, if it had been me, I probably would have shot Brown as well. But we have to hold officers to a higher standard. Which is why I would fire him.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

 

[fantasycurse42]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

You're right. There's even a passage in that Washington Post article about the leaked info which supports your point:

Benjamin L. Crump, an attorney for the Brown family, said Brown’s family and supporters will not be convinced by the autopsy report or eyewitness statements that back Wilson’s account of the incident.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Of course not... Why would the eyewitness accounts mean anything? His parents know what happened and they're sticking to that regardless of all evidence that suggests otherwise.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

 

[Bucky86]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

so brown is now terminator?

 

[TheWalkmen]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

so brown is now terminator?

Oh yeah, I forgot that we should all assume that Brown was thinking logically while it's been proven he was high and just had a scuffle during a robbery. We should also assume the police officer murdered Brown because we know how Brown should have and did react during the scuffle and the officer needs anger management.

 

[mcintyre1]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

so brown is now terminator?

Oh yeah, I forgot that we should all assume that Brown was thinking logically while it's been proven he was high and just had a scuffle during a robbery. We should also assume the police officer murdered Brown because we know how Brown should have and did react during the scuffle and the officer needs anger management.

Have you ever been high? It doesn't turn you in to a ruthless killing machine, despite the propaganda you may have heard.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

so brown is now terminator?

Oh yeah, I forgot that we should all assume that Brown was thinking logically while it's been proven he was high and just had a scuffle during a robbery. We should also assume the police officer murdered Brown because we know how Brown should have and did react during the scuffle and the officer needs anger management.

Have you ever been high? It doesn't turn you in to a ruthless killing machine, despite the propaganda you may have heard.

I said thinking logically while high. It appears that weed didn't calm him down in the scuffle in the gas station. I do not think weed turns you into a killing machine. Yes I've smoked weed before. I didn't like it due to paranoia. It effects people differently.

 

[[icon]]

Still more pointless outrage in the face of mounting evidence, I see.

 

[timschochet]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.