Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (5 Viewers)

[mcintyre1]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

Let's be real, though. The guy stole a box of Swisher Sweets. Does those get used for anything other than blunts?

 

[mcintyre1]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

so brown is now terminator?

Oh yeah, I forgot that we should all assume that Brown was thinking logically while it's been proven he was high and just had a scuffle during a robbery. We should also assume the police officer murdered Brown because we know how Brown should have and did react during the scuffle and the officer needs anger management.

Have you ever been high? It doesn't turn you in to a ruthless killing machine, despite the propaganda you may have heard.

I said thinking logically while high. It appears that weed didn't calm him down in the scuffle in the gas station. I do not think weed turns you into a killing machine. Yes I've smoked weed before. I didn't like it due to paranoia. It effects people differently.

Yes, it does affect people differently, which is why I think its dumb to use "he had THC in his blood" as any indication of anything. If he was a habitual user, it would have had basically zero effect on his thought processes. If you're smoking several times a day, you learn how to function as a normal person in society and go pretty much unnoticed... or you fully embrace it and wear tie-dye 24/7 while staring into the distance for long periods of time.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

How many times does that happen, when one man has a gun, and the other has already been shot once?

Think about that - Wilson's story is that Brown was shot in the car while going for Wilson's gun. I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun. But, gun goes off, Brown is hit, everybody scatters. Up to this point, it all seem like a natural reaction to a SNAFU.

Now, Wilson defenders want us to believe that Brown, who was running away from the gun shot, and who is unarmed, and knows the officer is armed, decides to stop running away, turn and charge a man holding a gun? Really? Call me naive - but that version of events strains credulity.

 

[mcintyre1]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

Jurors have also seen the St. Louis County autopsy report, including toxicology test results for Brown that show he had tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his system. The Post’s sources said the levels in Brown’s body may have been high enough to trigger hallucinations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

If the Posts's source is accurate, that would have to be a brick of weed that Brown smoked two weeks ago for Brown to still have so much THC in him that he was at potential hallucinogenic levels.

Sounds like typical police funded medical testimony about how scary weed is to me. I don't know the science behind what level of THC you need to have a shot a hallucinations, but I can also say that I've known many people that smoked A LOT of weed without ever hallucinating. Anecdotally (which is probably all we really have, since the DEA won't allow basically any research on marijuana), I could count on one hand the number of times I've heard of a person claiming to hallucinate on weed (and remember, I went to one of those hippie liberal arts colleges where the weed flowed like beer).

 

[mcintyre1]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

How many times does that happen, when one man has a gun, and the other has already been shot once?

Think about that - Wilson's story is that Brown was shot in the car while going for Wilson's gun. I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun. But, gun goes off, Brown is hit, everybody scatters. Up to this point, it all seem like a natural reaction to a SNAFU.

Now, Wilson defenders want us to believe that Brown, who was running away from the gun shot, and who is unarmed, and knows the officer is armed, decides to stop running away, turn and charge a man holding a gun? Really? Call me naive - but that version of events strains credulity.

Bingo.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

Jurors have also seen the St. Louis County autopsy report, including toxicology test results for Brown that show he had tetrahydrocannabinol, the active ingredient in marijuana, in his system. The Post’s sources said the levels in Brown’s body may have been high enough to trigger hallucinations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

If the Posts's source is accurate, that would have to be a brick of weed that Brown smoked two weeks ago for Brown to still have so much THC in him that he was at potential hallucinogenic levels.

Hallucinating from weed?

 

[Bucky86]

He was hallucinating that he was the terminator and the cops bullets would bounce off of him. Then he could slowly walk towards the cop and lift him up with one arm.

 

[[icon]]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[mcintyre1]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

It might come down to how you're defining "going for the officer's gun." To me, that implies that the gun was not drawn and Brown reached for it, forcing Wilson to draw and shoot to prevent him from taking the weapon. If you're defining "going for his gun" as reaching toward the gun after Wilson has drawn and pointed it at Brown (for example, if Brown were trying to avoid being shot point blank in the chest), then yeah, I would say that I think Brown was "going for his gun."

 

[timschochet]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

Who knows? Personally, I suspect that Brown did go for Wilson's gun, because based on what we know Brown strikes me as a rather stupid thug.

On the other hand, every time there is a questionable police shooting, "he was going for my gun!" is the first excuse offered, and it's often bogus. So I can see why people would be skeptical.

 

[kentric]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

I think it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that the officer tried to stop Brown and his friend and that they gave him the cold shoulder. He pulls close next to them and either opens the door which is pushed back into him (as the friend states for what its worth) or, leans out the window and grabs Brown to keep him from continuing walking/running away. I don't think he necessarily be trying to pull Brown into the car. Then things escalate from there as Brown thinks he's being dissed/manhandled.

 

[kentric]

I was walking across the street today and actually saw a cop reach through his window and grab a kid by the shirt when the kid started walking away. I now wish I had taken a picture.

There's somewhat of a difference between trying to haul a 300 lb person through a car window and grabbing some kid by the shirt. Incredibly enough, Frick & Frack think the officer tried to do that.

I'm sure that the officer thought...I know, I'll pull this guy into my vehicle through the window here; yeah, that's a good plan.

What's with the name calling ("Frick & Frack") dude. Please cease and desist. Its childish.

I did not say he tried to pull him into the window. I believe he tried to detain Brown and it escalated to wrestling for a gun.

 

[Road Warriors]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

I see 2 possible scenarios.

1. Brown is aggressive, attacks Wilson in the car and after striking him, reaches for his gun.

2. Wilson is aggressive, pulls his gun to show Brown who's in charge, and Brown reaches defensively to move the gun away.

In either case, the gun can go off and Brown be shot in the hand. In either case, the eyewitness accounts of the start of the interaction are relatively close.

What we don't know is what happened at the car between the two men. We do know they scuffled and the gun discharged, but the details of why are still, even with the "new" grand jury evidence, unclear.

Wilson's narrative serves his best interest.

Brown doesn't have a narrative.

IMO, we'll never know the details of that interaction, and without refuting evidence, Wilson will walk.

 

[TheWalkmen]

Cop handled the situation poorly, from start to finish. I suspect that when he killed Brown, the police officer no longer feared for his safety or of those around him - he was just angry at Brown. Even if you assume Wilson's version of the story is remotely accurate - that there was a scuffle in the car, and that Brown at some point reached for his gun - the fatal shots came after Brown had clearly run away from the situation - and no longer had access to a weapon. Why did he run away? Occam's razor says he ran away because he was afraid of being shot - since he had already been shot according to Wilson. So, it does not make sense that Brown would run away from Wilson, while Wilson was still in the car. but then suddenly turn and charge at Wilson once he was out of the car and leveling the gun at Brown.

Wilson should go to jail. And, Anger Management classes.

Yeah, I've never seen or heard of an exchange where it appeared a scuffle was over or where two people began to separate, then more words or shouting or whatever were exchanged or someone changed their mind and wanted more, and the two then scuffled again. Why is that out of the realm of possibility? Maybe there weren't even words exchanged and Brown couldn't control his anger, and maybe he didn't care if he died.

How many times does that happen, when one man has a gun, and the other has already been shot once?

Think about that - Wilson's story is that Brown was shot in the car while going for Wilson's gun. I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun. But, gun goes off, Brown is hit, everybody scatters. Up to this point, it all seem like a natural reaction to a SNAFU.

Now, Wilson defenders want us to believe that Brown, who was running away from the gun shot, and who is unarmed, and knows the officer is armed, decides to stop running away, turn and charge a man holding a gun? Really? Call me naive - but that version of events strains credulity.

Bingo.

If I am scuffling with someone who has a gun, I'm not sure I would run away. That seems like a sure fire way to get shot in the back. I think I'd fight to the death of me for the gun. If I decided to run, I'm not sure I would turn back.

 

[lod01]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

I think it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that the officer tried to stop Brown and his friend and that they gave him the cold shoulder. He pulls close next to them and either opens the door which is pushed back into him (as the friend states for what its worth) or, leans out the window and grabs Brown to keep him from continuing walking/running away. I don't think he necessarily be trying to pull Brown into the car. Then things escalate from there as Brown thinks he's being dissed/manhandled.

It's so ridiculous that anyone would even remotely believe that an officer would do this. I mean there are sooooo many other examples of such technique by cops that it deserves another

You guys are on the side of a dead thief and loser at life. Justice will prevail in this case.

You got Sinn Fein saying that there is no way Brown would rush the cop with a gun because it doesn't happen. I say the exact same thing here.

 

[mcintyre1]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

I see 2 possible scenarios.

1. Brown is aggressive, attacks Wilson in the car and after striking him, reaches for his gun.

2. Wilson is aggressive, pulls his gun to show Brown who's in charge, and Brown reaches defensively to move the gun away.

In either case, the gun can go off and Brown be shot in the hand. In either case, the eyewitness accounts of the start of the interaction are relatively close.

What we don't know is what happened at the car between the two men. We do know they scuffled and the gun discharged, but the details of why are still, even with the "new" grand jury evidence, unclear.

Wilson's narrative serves his best interest.

Brown doesn't have a narrative.

IMO, we'll never know the details of that interaction, and without refuting evidence, Wilson will walk.

 

[jonessed]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

The coroner report said it was within the previous few hours based on THC levels. The coroner could be racist though.

 

[kentric]

It's great when forensic evidence exposes so called 'eyewitnesses' as total liars. On top of that some honest citizens with no agenda backing it up. Quite a few of you look totally ridiculous as this comes to a close. Seems the evidence coming out now supports how some of us logical people called it.

Now let's get ready to watch some rioting.

Pretty sure most people here were wait and see. Its not surprising that most people thought that the officer shot Brown down when he didn't have to. I wanted to wait for additional evidence to come in, but also found it difficult to believe that Brown would be charging down on the officer while being shot at.

All the evidence isn't in yet and while its looking better for the officer, I still would like to hear from some of these hidden eyewitnesses and see the blood spatter - which would indicate where Brown was when he was shot.

 

[mcintyre1]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

I think it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that the officer tried to stop Brown and his friend and that they gave him the cold shoulder. He pulls close next to them and either opens the door which is pushed back into him (as the friend states for what its worth) or, leans out the window and grabs Brown to keep him from continuing walking/running away. I don't think he necessarily be trying to pull Brown into the car. Then things escalate from there as Brown thinks he's being dissed/manhandled.

It's so ridiculous that anyone would even remotely believe that an officer would do this. I mean there are sooooo many other examples of such technique by cops that it deserves another You guys are on the side of a dead thief and loser at life. Justice will prevail in this case.

You got Sinn Fein saying that there is no way Brown would rush the cop with a gun because it doesn't happen. I say the exact same thing here.

Didn't someone last page say they saw a cop do this yesterday?

 

[kentric]

And even as new info comes out, not one opinion has changed.

You're right. There's even a passage in that Washington Post article about the leaked info which supports your point:

Benjamin L. Crump, an attorney for the Brown family, said Brown’s family and supporters will not be convinced by the autopsy report or eyewitness statements that back Wilson’s account of the incident.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Of course not... Why would the eyewitness accounts mean anything? His parents know what happened and they're sticking to that regardless of all evidence that suggests otherwise.

Their son is dead and the feelings in the community seem to be that the police are corrupt. It not surprising that they would question the eyewitnesses when they have eyewitnesses who say something contradictory to Wilson's account. It wouldn't surprise me if they believe that the "Wilson" witnesses are doctored (you come forward as an eyewitness and I will make sure you get off on your arrest charge type of thing).

 

[lod01]

It's great when forensic evidence exposes so called 'eyewitnesses' as total liars. On top of that some honest citizens with no agenda backing it up. Quite a few of you look totally ridiculous as this comes to a close. Seems the evidence coming out now supports how some of us logical people called it.

Now let's get ready to watch some rioting.

Pretty sure most people here were wait and see. Its not surprising that most people thought that the officer shot Brown down when he didn't have to. I wanted to wait for additional evidence to come in, but also found it difficult to believe that Brown would be charging down on the officer while being shot at.

All the evidence isn't in yet and while its looking better for the officer, I still would like to hear from some of these hidden eyewitnesses and see the blood spatter - which would indicate where Brown was when he was shot.

Some 2 bit radio host was on CNN this morning and you could tell by her facial expressions that she was not happy that some black people were testifying that Wilson's story was what they witnessed. It was great. Guaranteed she was mumbling 'bunch of uncle Tom's' When asked about it all they could come up with was 'who are they, why didn't they rant like the other people did'. Then it was explained to her that witness testimony shouldn't be just blabbered about on TV. She is also supposedly an attorney but since it didn't fit her agenda, (and boy does she have one...that is failing miserably) she didn't bring it up. She was set straight though.

 

[kentric]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

It might come down to how you're defining "going for the officer's gun." To me, that implies that the gun was not drawn and Brown reached for it, forcing Wilson to draw and shoot to prevent him from taking the weapon. If you're defining "going for his gun" as reaching toward the gun after Wilson has drawn and pointed it at Brown (for example, if Brown were trying to avoid being shot point blank in the chest), then yeah, I would say that I think Brown was "going for his gun."

This seems most likely. You would think that Wilson feared for his safety when they were scuffling and went for him gun. Brown, seeing this went to relieve Wilson of said gun and gets shot. Most likely scenario.

 

[kentric]

From interview with forensic expert on CNN. Bodes well for the officer.

Latest leaks from the grand jury have the officer getting punched in the head, Brown being shot at close range, possibly within arms reach. Gun powder reside on his hand. Also, radio transmissions may indicate that not only did the officer know a robbery had been committed at that store, but the description fit Brown. Timeframe may indicate that is why he backed up to confront them.

I almost want to see a trial so that when they put that friend up on the stand, the defense destroys him. There is no way the prosecution can coach him up on what would come his way. He would be a valuable witness for the officer.

While that points to the fact that they had an altercation at/in the police car, it does not show:

1. Who initiated the contact. Was it the officer pulling Brown from the window - with Brown not attempting to attack until the gun was pulled.

2. Whether Brown was in fact surrendering himself to the officer, with his hands up and defenseless.

Are you postulating that a man the size of the Officer reached through his window, rather than exiting the vehicle, and tried to use his left hand to pull a man the size of the suspect into the vehicle through the window? Does your theory come with a rationale for why the officer would want a man the size of brown pulled through the vehicle window into his lap? I need to hear more to understand what you are going for here.

I think it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that the officer tried to stop Brown and his friend and that they gave him the cold shoulder. He pulls close next to them and either opens the door which is pushed back into him (as the friend states for what its worth) or, leans out the window and grabs Brown to keep him from continuing walking/running away. I don't think he necessarily be trying to pull Brown into the car. Then things escalate from there as Brown thinks he's being dissed/manhandled.

It's so ridiculous that anyone would even remotely believe that an officer would do this. I mean there are sooooo many other examples of such technique by cops that it deserves another

You guys are on the side of a dead thief and loser at life. Justice will prevail in this case.

You got Sinn Fein saying that there is no way Brown would rush the cop with a gun because it doesn't happen. I say the exact same thing here.

I wasn't there and you weren't there. Somehow, Brown ended up leaning into the car and fighting with Wilson. You can laugh all you want, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Wilson grabbed Brown through the window (while not necessarily trying to pull him into the car).

I already said it isn't reasonable for Brown to rush Wilson. Same way it isn't reasonable for Wilson to shoot at Brown when he wasn't likely an imminent threat. I am not on the side of Brown. I am waiting for all the evidence to be presented. Hopefully justice will prevail.

 

[Courtjester]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

It might come down to how you're defining "going for the officer's gun." To me, that implies that the gun was not drawn and Brown reached for it, forcing Wilson to draw and shoot to prevent him from taking the weapon. If you're defining "going for his gun" as reaching toward the gun after Wilson has drawn and pointed it at Brown (for example, if Brown were trying to avoid being shot point blank in the chest), then yeah, I would say that I think Brown was "going for his gun."

This seems most likely. You would think that Wilson feared for his safety when they were scuffling and went for him gun. Brown, seeing this went to relieve Wilson of said gun and gets shot. Most likely scenario.

I agree with this too. If you believe Wilson's account, he is assaulted by Brown. I can see a scenario where Wilson draws his gun fearing for his safety, Brown grabs for it, they wrestle inside the window of the car over it and the gun discharges.

I never could see a believable scenario where Brown actually dove into the car with the plan to unhook the officer's holster and get to the gun.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I do believe he was shot in the car, I don't believe he was going for Wilson's gun.

Please go into detail the series of events that unfold in your mind when you envision an officer shooting a man in the hand while both are inside his car, but the suspect is NOT going for the officer's gun.

I'll hang up and listen.

I think it likely unfolded as a physical confrontation in close quarters - door opens, hits brown, both react - maybe Brown think Wilson hit with the door on purpose (maybe he did hit him on purpose?) - physical altercation occurs in window - gun is drawn, fired.

I just don't see a realistic scenario where Brown goes for the gun in the car, gets shot in the hand, then decides to run away, then decides to turn and fight. If he was really going after the gun, the best opportunity to get the gun was while he had Wilson "trapped" in the car in close quarters. If he feared for his life to run away - I can't imagine him changing his mind moments later.

 

[lod01]

I wasn't there and you weren't there. Somehow, Brown ended up leaning into the car and fighting with Wilson. You can laugh all you want, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Wilson grabbed Brown through the window (while not necessarily trying to pull him into the car).


I already said it isn't reasonable for Brown to rush Wilson. Same way it isn't reasonable for Wilson to shoot at Brown when he wasn't likely an imminent threat. I am not on the side of Brown. I am waiting for all the evidence to be presented. Hopefully justice will prevail.

It's totally out of the realm of possibilities. A cop sitting in a vehicle and a guy standing. Who has the upper hand? Answer the question. But before you do, understand that he's not going to try and grab the guy and drive off. The guy is 6'4 and 250 or so. Wilson is totally vulnerable in that situation. The guy would have to be an idiot and there is no past events on his record to point to that.

You are simply clinging to a bunch of so called witness who are liars.

 

[timschochet]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

The coroner report said it was within the previous few hours based on THC levels. The coroner could be racist though.

your last line was stupid and unnecessary. What have I ever posted in this thread that would give you cause to write something like that?

 

[lod01]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

The coroner report said it was within the previous few hours based on THC levels. The coroner could be racist though.

your last line was stupid and unnecessary. What have I ever posted in this thread that would give you cause to write something like that?

He was probably just telling you what the Brown family is thinking at all times.

 

[timschochet]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

The coroner report said it was within the previous few hours based on THC levels. The coroner could be racist though.

your last line was stupid and unnecessary. What have I ever posted in this thread that would give you cause to write something like that?

He was probably just telling you what the Brown family is thinking at all times.

Based on what? When did they say such a thing, or indicate it?

 

[lod01]

Sad that these witnesses who are standing up for the officer will probably have to leave the area once they are identified. If they could have come out right away in defense of the officer, none of this current BS would even be going on. They know it but are also smart enough to know what happens when they are identified.

 

[lod01]

Actually it hasn't been proven that Brown was high. Marijuana in the bloodstream can last for up to 2 weeks.

The coroner report said it was within the previous few hours based on THC levels. The coroner could be racist though.

your last line was stupid and unnecessary. What have I ever posted in this thread that would give you cause to write something like that?

He was probably just telling you what the Brown family is thinking at all times.

Based on what? When did they say such a thing, or indicate it?

:whoosh: right past timmyboy.

 

[timschochet]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

Couldn't be that whenever there's a case like this you're all:

"Well maybe THIS case wasn't racist but I don't blame anyone for thinking it is. Institutionalized racism and all...."

EVERY time. Rinse and repeat for other threads with race overtones. And you really wonder why people shoehorn you in to that box?????

 

[ArbyMelt]

Apple doesn't fall too far from the tree?

Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.

A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling ‘You can`t sell this s%$&” One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.

The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.

It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time.

http://fox2now.com/2014/10/22/police-investigating-assault-and-theft-following-argument-between-brown-family-relatives/

 

[kentric]

I wasn't there and you weren't there. Somehow, Brown ended up leaning into the car and fighting with Wilson. You can laugh all you want, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Wilson grabbed Brown through the window (while not necessarily trying to pull him into the car).


I already said it isn't reasonable for Brown to rush Wilson. Same way it isn't reasonable for Wilson to shoot at Brown when he wasn't likely an imminent threat. I am not on the side of Brown. I am waiting for all the evidence to be presented. Hopefully justice will prevail.

It's totally out of the realm of possibilities. A cop sitting in a vehicle and a guy standing. Who has the upper hand? Answer the question. But before you do, understand that he's not going to try and grab the guy and drive off. The guy is 6'4 and 250 or so. Wilson is totally vulnerable in that situation. The guy would have to be an idiot and there is no past events on his record to point to that.

You are simply clinging to a bunch of so called witness who are liars.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree. One last thing I would say is that neither Wilson or Brown appear to have been overly bright in their actions.

 

[jonessed]

Apple doesn't fall too far from the tree?



Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.

A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling You can`t sell this s%$& One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.

The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.

It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time.

http://fox2now.com/2014/10/22/police-investigating-assault-and-theft-following-argument-between-brown-family-relatives/

Assaulted him with a metal pipe? Crazy.

 

[lod01]

Apple doesn't fall too far from the tree?

Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.

A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling ‘You can`t sell this s%$&” One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.

The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.

It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time.

http://fox2now.com/2014/10/22/police-investigating-assault-and-theft-following-argument-between-brown-family-relatives/

That's ####### beautiful. Way to go Pearlie.

 

[lod01]

I wasn't there and you weren't there. Somehow, Brown ended up leaning into the car and fighting with Wilson. You can laugh all you want, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Wilson grabbed Brown through the window (while not necessarily trying to pull him into the car).


I already said it isn't reasonable for Brown to rush Wilson. Same way it isn't reasonable for Wilson to shoot at Brown when he wasn't likely an imminent threat. I am not on the side of Brown. I am waiting for all the evidence to be presented. Hopefully justice will prevail.

It's totally out of the realm of possibilities. A cop sitting in a vehicle and a guy standing. Who has the upper hand? Answer the question. But before you do, understand that he's not going to try and grab the guy and drive off. The guy is 6'4 and 250 or so. Wilson is totally vulnerable in that situation. The guy would have to be an idiot and there is no past events on his record to point to that.

You are simply clinging to a bunch of so called witness who are liars.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree. One last thing I would say is that neither Wilson or Brown appear to have been overly bright in their actions.

Brown was a thug. Wilson dealt with the thug the way thug's need dealt with. You need to understand that Brown just robbed a store and had no idea if Wilson had knowledge of the theft yet or the description. Wilson had no idea he was dealing with a flat out moron even if he had just received the description. He is certainly not going to simply radio in for backup like 'I have the perp in my sights.' He checked them out like he was trained to do and the moron went nuts on him thinking Wilson was onto the robbery he just committed.

 

[timschochet]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

Couldn't be that whenever there's a case like this you're all:

"Well maybe THIS case wasn't racist but I don't blame anyone for thinking it is. Institutionalized racism and all...."

EVERY time. Rinse and repeat for other threads with race overtones. And you really wonder why people shoehorn you in to that box?????

Yes I repeat that argument, because it's true every time. These events are going to keep happening until we can find a way to end institutionalized racism, and until blacks no longer perceive themselves as victims of the state. I absolutely believe that.

But that argument is completely different from calling anyone racist who doesn't agree with me.

 

[timschochet]

I wasn't there and you weren't there. Somehow, Brown ended up leaning into the car and fighting with Wilson. You can laugh all you want, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Wilson grabbed Brown through the window (while not necessarily trying to pull him into the car).


I already said it isn't reasonable for Brown to rush Wilson. Same way it isn't reasonable for Wilson to shoot at Brown when he wasn't likely an imminent threat. I am not on the side of Brown. I am waiting for all the evidence to be presented. Hopefully justice will prevail.

It's totally out of the realm of possibilities. A cop sitting in a vehicle and a guy standing. Who has the upper hand? Answer the question. But before you do, understand that he's not going to try and grab the guy and drive off. The guy is 6'4 and 250 or so. Wilson is totally vulnerable in that situation. The guy would have to be an idiot and there is no past events on his record to point to that.

You are simply clinging to a bunch of so called witness who are liars.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree. One last thing I would say is that neither Wilson or Brown appear to have been overly bright in their actions.

Brown was a thug. Wilson dealt with the thug the way thug's need dealt with. You need to understand that Brown just robbed a store and had no idea if Wilson had knowledge of the theft yet or the description. Wilson had no idea he was dealing with a flat out moron even if he had just received the description. He is certainly not going to simply radio in for backup like 'I have the perp in my sights.' He checked them out like he was trained to do and the moron went nuts on him thinking Wilson was onto the robbery he just committed.

Attention Ditkaless Wonders: Iodo1 is presuming to speak for Wilson. He is also making presumptions about Brown. He never bothers to write, "Here's what I think", or "based on the information we have, my feeling is". He simply makes these statements as if they were undisputed facts, which of course they're not. Tell me, Ditkaless Wonders, does this offend you to your core?

 

[timschochet]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.

Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize.

I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize. I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

You often state that people that disagree with you about issues with Obama do it because they hate him and are racist. And of course your rants about the Tea Party.

 

[timschochet]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize. I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

You often state that people that disagree with you about issues with Obama do it because they hate him and are racist. And of course your rants about the Tea Party.

1. Link to the bolded?

2. Link to when I ever wrote that Tea Party was racist? Stinger Ray, I will send you $100 today if you can find a post in which I state that the Tea Party is a racist organization, or comprised of racists, or that the majority of Tea Party members are racist. You find that quote, and I'll send it to you by Paypal today.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Apple doesn't fall too far from the tree?

Police sources tell us Brown`s Grandmother, Pearlie Gordon, along with Brown`s Cousin Tony Petty, were selling t-shirts and other Michael Brown merchandise.

A police report describes a car pulling up and several people getting out. One of those people, was reported to be Michael Brown`s Mom, Lesley McSpadden. A witness described McSpadden yelling ‘You can`t sell this s%$&” One of the relatives, who was selling, reportedly demanded McSpadden show a document proving she had a patent.

The police report says that`s when an unidentified person with McSpadden assaulted Petty so violently that it resulted in a 911 call. A witness tells Fox 2 that the weapon was a metal pipe or pole. The suspect reportedly struck Petty in the face. Medics then took him to Christian Northeast Hospital. The witness said the assault suspect grabbed merchandise and a box of cash believed to contain about $1,400.

It appears surveillance cameras could have captured the fight and be part of police evidence. Police report no arrests at this time.

http://fox2now.com/2014/10/22/police-investigating-assault-and-theft-following-argument-between-brown-family-relatives/

WTF is wrong with people?

 

[StrikeS2k]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.

Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize.

I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

REALLY? You've called me racist on immigration. I disagree with you on that topic. You acknowledged and apologized for doing so. I realize it was several years ago but don't tell me you have forgotten about that.

 

[timschochet]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.

Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize.

I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

REALLY? You've called me racist on immigration. I disagree with you on that topic. You acknowledged and apologized for doing so. I realize it was several years ago but don't tell me you have forgotten about that.

While I was wrong to call you racist, I didn't do so because you disagreed with me. I did so because I believed at the time there were certain code words and phrases you were using that indicated racism to me. That was in error on my part. But lots of people disagreed with me on that subject (still do) and you were the only one at the time who I called racist. That should indicate that what I am saying is true.

 

[timschochet]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.

Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize.

I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

There you go making it all about you again. You just can't help yourself.

If you're throwing out challenges, however, you just threw me in with Grandpa as someone who dismisses any fact against Wilson as leftist or anti-police. Show me where I did that.

That was meant to be a light-hearted response because IIRC, you sided with GrandpaRox yesterday on his comments about the difference between black people and "N". Hence me writing "I apologize". I honestly have no idea if you regard any fact against Wilson as leftist or anti-police, since I can't recall you acknowledging any fact against Wilson.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Yes, I'm sure there are idiots out there somewhere who believe that any fact that comes out that is against Michael Brown is racist. Just as there are some idiots out there who believe that any fact that comes out against Officer Wilson is leftist and anti-police. I'm not one of those people and I don't think there have been any of those people, on either side, in this thread. (With the possible exception of GrandpaRox.) I'm sick and tired of being shoehorned by those who disagree with me as somebody who sees racism under every crevice. I'm sick and tired of others being accused of the same. I'm sick and tired of conservatives around here being painted as racists all the time, when almost none of them are. These straw men serve no purpose other than halt discussion and debate.

First, you earned your reputation of your own accord, now live with it.

Second, if you don't want people making things about you, then stop making posts like this where you make it all about you.

I probably should have added you along with Grandpa Rox in the bolded. I apologize.

I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

REALLY? You've called me racist on immigration. I disagree with you on that topic. You acknowledged and apologized for doing so. I realize it was several years ago but don't tell me you have forgotten about that.

While I was wrong to call you racist, I didn't do so because you disagreed with me. I did so because I believed at the time there were certain code words and phrases you were using that indicated racism to me. That was in error on my part. But lots of people disagreed with me on that subject (still do) and you were the only one at the time who I called racist. That should indicate that what I am saying is true.

You don't get it, do you? You formulated an opinion that people who oppose illegal immigration are racists. You said so at the time. I don't care if you didn't explicitly call others racist. You had/have a pre-formed opinion about those who oppose illegal immigration. Others weren't going back and forth with you as hard as I did. I didn't say anything remotely racist. I never have. Just like with these issues with cops. You have a pre-formed opinion about people on the other side of this than you. You just do. And people who push you on it get classified in your mind. You have a bias. Kind of like you're accusing cops of having actually.....In any event, I know you don't see it. But those reading these threads do. The same thing happens in topic after topic. You love to generalize about groups of people, and then put people here in your generalized groups based upon your interpretation of their posts. It's quite transparent, and frequent.

 

[timschochet]

I have no reputation of calling people racist who disagree with me. In fact, I challenge you to link one time, in this or any thread in the FFA, when I have ever done that.

You'll deny that your new favorite ad hominem attack of "nativist" is synonymous with "racist", but we all know that's what you're thinking based on your constant harping about racism.

So much nativism in here. Ugly.

Are you able to discuss anything without (intentionally?) mischaracterizing arguments of others?

I am not characterizing everyone who believes in a travel ban as a nativist. But some are, and they have expressed their views, and they are ugly.

You've now twice suggested that there are "ugly" posts in here. Please show the posts that are "ugly".

Find them yourself.

Seriously, I.m done arguing over this petty stuff. If you want to offer me reasons why my arguments against this idea are wrong (see post #56) then offer them and we can have a discussion. Whether or not I personally believe some posts are ugly is irrelevant to the main issue at hand.

It's not irrelevant when you start throwing around accusations. Your quoted post above didn't offer arguments against, it just made a nasty comment about everyone who disagreed with you. You then backtracked to claim the insult only applies to some people, but can't specify who or show why. That's all relevant to the post you made.

I have a lot of trouble with nativism. It has several elements in common with racism. But it is not racism and I don't regard it as such.

 

[lod01]

I wasn't there and you weren't there. Somehow, Brown ended up leaning into the car and fighting with Wilson. You can laugh all you want, but I don't think its out of the realm of possibility that Wilson grabbed Brown through the window (while not necessarily trying to pull him into the car).


I already said it isn't reasonable for Brown to rush Wilson. Same way it isn't reasonable for Wilson to shoot at Brown when he wasn't likely an imminent threat. I am not on the side of Brown. I am waiting for all the evidence to be presented. Hopefully justice will prevail.

It's totally out of the realm of possibilities. A cop sitting in a vehicle and a guy standing. Who has the upper hand? Answer the question. But before you do, understand that he's not going to try and grab the guy and drive off. The guy is 6'4 and 250 or so. Wilson is totally vulnerable in that situation. The guy would have to be an idiot and there is no past events on his record to point to that.

You are simply clinging to a bunch of so called witness who are liars.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree. One last thing I would say is that neither Wilson or Brown appear to have been overly bright in their actions.

Brown was a thug. Wilson dealt with the thug the way thug's need dealt with. You need to understand that Brown just robbed a store and had no idea if Wilson had knowledge of the theft yet or the description. Wilson had no idea he was dealing with a flat out moron even if he had just received the description. He is certainly not going to simply radio in for backup like 'I have the perp in my sights.' He checked them out like he was trained to do and the moron went nuts on him thinking Wilson was onto the robbery he just committed.

Attention Ditkaless Wonders: Iodo1 is presuming to speak for Wilson. He is also making presumptions about Brown. He never bothers to write, "Here's what I think", or "based on the information we have, my feeling is". He simply makes these statements as if they were undisputed facts, which of course they're not. Tell me, Ditkaless Wonders, does this offend you to your core?

Yet once the facts come out, I'm always right and you are usually wrong. There is a reason the results favor me. I use logic, you use emotion.