Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (7 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

 

[Smack Tripper]

I think Henry Ford is right as a general rule, but Ivan is right in this instance. To paraphrase the Passover Seder, why is this riot different from all other riots? The answer is the lack of spontaneity. These looters, many if whom brought masks, knew what was going to happen.

didn't see the original posts yet but this I understand

 

[Henry Ford]

I think Henry Ford is right as a general rule, but Ivan is right in this instance. To paraphrase the Passover Seder, why is this riot different from all other riots? The answer is the lack of spontaneity. These looters, many if whom brought masks, knew what was going to happen.

"The black community" knew what was going to happen before Brown's body was removed from the street.

 

[mcintyre1]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

I'm a little skeptical that the looters/rioters were thinking about Lockean political philosophy last night.

Not in those terms, and probably not articulated in that way, but I think at least some of them were.

Bingo. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

So now we put the burden on the ones discriminated against to stop the discrimination? Interesting.

It worked for waves of immigrants from the Irish to the Hmong. And it is not us necessarily putting the pressure on them if they choose to do it themselves, as have other groups in the past.

 

[SIDA!]

I was really pissed off at the looters last night (still am) and used words like scum and animals to describe them. What really bothered me was not just the fact that they were ruining things for the vast majority of peaceful protestors, but that this was not spontaneous: these ####ers knew what was going to happen and were eager to take advantage of it. That's why so many wore masks.

But some of the rhetoric here is way over the top. We need to keep a little perspective. It would be more accurate to say that the looters were normal people who chose to act like thugs, scum, animals, etc. If caught they should be prosecuted for their crimes. But they don't deserve to die.

They are not normal people. And not all human life is sacred or equal to other human life. Not sure why so many of you pretend or want to convince us and others that we are all the same and nothing really distinguishes us from each other except that a "few" upset individuals threw a temper tantrum.

This Ferguson crowd was filled with Marxist/Communist agitators as well. Did anyone look up RevCom.us, the url that was posted on many of the signs that were being waved around?

 

[mcintyre1]

This will go far to improve race relations in America, will undoubtedly reinforce stereotypes and make sure that racial profiling stays strong and long.

Unfortunately ALL of the above was made more understandable with the events of last night.

You were the one classifying good and bad types of black people and which ones were allowed to be inside your house, right?

 

[whoknew]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

Yep.

And/or put themselves in fewer situations where they might encounter cops.

Again, putting the burden on the citizens to not be discriminated against, as opposed to the employees hired to protect them. Crazy.

 

[mcintyre1]

Well, this thread was a great way to out all the closet racists on the board.

lol...did you happen to look in the mirror this morning? I am pretty sure you have been painting all blacks with the same brush as if they are a hive protecting their queen. If that is not the purest form of racism, I don't know what is.

Alright, buddy. Whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better.

EDIT: And also, what? I have no idea what you're talking about. 'A hive protecting their queen'?

 

[Henry Ford]

Well, this thread was a great way to out all the closet racists on the board.

lol...did you happen to look in the mirror this morning? I am pretty sure you have been painting all blacks with the same brush as if they are a hive protecting their queen. If that is not the purest form of racism, I don't know what is.

He was gay, too???

 

[Harry Manback]

Keep it classy y'all.

 

[HellToupee]

Can we all agree that the deceased wasn't what he was portrayed to be in the media?

 

[SIDA!]

I was really pissed off at the looters last night (still am) and used words like scum and animals to describe them. What really bothered me was not just the fact that they were ruining things for the vast majority of peaceful protestors, but that this was not spontaneous: these ####ers knew what was going to happen and were eager to take advantage of it. That's why so many wore masks.

But some of the rhetoric here is way over the top. We need to keep a little perspective. It would be more accurate to say that the looters were normal people who chose to act like thugs, scum, animals, etc. If caught they should be prosecuted for their crimes. But they don't deserve to die.

95% Tim. You made it 95% of the way through this simple, thoughtful post, then you went off the rails with your last sentence. Good Lord.

so you think they do deserve to die?

Where has anyone indicated that a proper punishment for looters should be death?

Um. Me. In fact, it is legally justifiable.

As a citizen of this country am I only allowed to stand outside my store and say, "Pretty please, with cherry on top, don't loot my store?" while the police officers I pay taxes to support stand around a mile down the street so as not to "inflame" tensions?

If you were on a jury you are going to convict a business owner of shooting looters when you see dozens of businesses vandalized?

 

[got_nugs]

The events of last night go beyond a simple local news story and amount to a national disgrace. All of us as Americans should be embarrassed by what we witnessed and should demand that those responsible for this atrocity be held accountable.

But enough about the Jets. Any updates on how things are going in Missouri?

I quoted you on spacebook.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

Well it may be a high school education with a community college police academy or maybe a bachelors degree in criminal justice etc...It is kind of up to the police departments themselves....I'm not saying they don't have it...but if they do then why not join and make a change if change is needed.

 

[lod01]

Well, this thread was a great way to out all the closet racists on the board.

Will the next person that sees ANYBODY making racist comments in this thread, point 'em out...and get 'em out of here - you don't post in the Geek Club, you post in the FFA!!!

 

[TenTimes]

I still have a few likes squirreled away, come and get them.

 

[jamny]

The events of last night go beyond a simple local news story and amount to a national disgrace. All of us as Americans should be embarrassed by what we witnessed and should demand that those responsible for this atrocity be held accountable.

But enough about the Jets. Any updates on how things are going in Missouri?

I quoted you on spacebook.

Me too.

 

[GrandpaRox]

I was really pissed off at the looters last night (still am) and used words like scum and animals to describe them. What really bothered me was not just the fact that they were ruining things for the vast majority of peaceful protestors, but that this was not spontaneous: these ####ers knew what was going to happen and were eager to take advantage of it. That's why so many wore masks.

But some of the rhetoric here is way over the top. We need to keep a little perspective. It would be more accurate to say that the looters were normal people who chose to act like thugs, scum, animals, etc. If caught they should be prosecuted for their crimes. But they don't deserve to die.

95% Tim. You made it 95% of the way through this simple, thoughtful post, then you went off the rails with your last sentence. Good Lord.

so you think they do deserve to die?

Yes

 

[Slapdash]

How stupid is this grand jury to announce this at 10PM?

 

[whoknew]

I was really pissed off at the looters last night (still am) and used words like scum and animals to describe them. What really bothered me was not just the fact that they were ruining things for the vast majority of peaceful protestors, but that this was not spontaneous: these ####ers knew what was going to happen and were eager to take advantage of it. That's why so many wore masks.

But some of the rhetoric here is way over the top. We need to keep a little perspective. It would be more accurate to say that the looters were normal people who chose to act like thugs, scum, animals, etc. If caught they should be prosecuted for their crimes. But they don't deserve to die.

95% Tim. You made it 95% of the way through this simple, thoughtful post, then you went off the rails with your last sentence. Good Lord.

so you think they do deserve to die?

Where has anyone indicated that a proper punishment for looters should be death?

Um. Me. In fact, it is legally justifiable.

As a citizen of this country am I only allowed to stand outside my store and say, "Pretty please, with cherry on top, don't loot my store?" while the police officers I pay taxes to support stand around a mile down the street so as not to "inflame" tensions?

If you were on a jury you are going to convict a business owner of shooting looters when you see dozens of businesses vandalized?

Absolutely I would.

 

[Henry Ford]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

Well it may be a high school education with a community college police academy or maybe a bachelors degree in criminal justice etc...It is kind of up to the police departments themselves....I'm not saying they don't have it...but if they do then why not join and make a change if change is needed.

A G.E.D. is usually enough to enter a police academy.

See bolded.

 

[lod01]

i haven't looked at the evidence. I plan on it. So far though as a general rule, liberals tend to believe the evidence points toward Brown being wrongfully killed, and conservatives believe it was justified .

So common sense (guy steals cigars, is considered a suspect, is confronted, goes after officer's gun and is shot in the head), evades a liberal and is a staple of a conservative.

 

[dickey moe]

I've never dealt with an insurance policy that excludes riots from coverage.

Pretty sure the members of Quiet Riot were denied insurance based on their preexisting metal health conditions.

:metalrimshot:

 

[TobiasFunke]

People pulling good quotes from transcripts in the comments on this page:

http://gawker.com/read-the-ferguson-grand-jury-testimony-and-witness-inte-1663029540

This one is amazing.

Wilson literally fired a shot without looking where he was aiming. A police officer did that.

 

[Fennis]

black people loot food, white people find food

 

[whoknew]

Can we all agree that the deceased wasn't what he was portrayed to be in the media?

I don't think we can agree on that. It seems like there was a lot of conflicting evidence, no?

 

[TenTimes]

I've never dealt with an insurance policy that excludes riots from coverage.

Pretty sure the members of Quiet Riot were denied insurance based on their preexisting metal health conditions.

:metalrimshot:

 

[Ditka Butkus]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

Well it may be a high school education with a community college police academy or maybe a bachelors degree in criminal justice etc...It is kind of up to the police departments themselves....I'm not saying they don't have it...but if they do then why not join and make a change if change is needed.

A G.E.D. is usually enough to enter a police academy.

See bolded.

I see the bolded...If you want to be a police officer then maybe you shouldn't commit felonious acts. Are you implying they can't become police officers because they are all felons.

 

[HellToupee]

Its a generalization but from reading here most fbg progressives have an agenda against the police

 

[Henry Ford]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

Well it may be a high school education with a community college police academy or maybe a bachelors degree in criminal justice etc...It is kind of up to the police departments themselves....I'm not saying they don't have it...but if they do then why not join and make a change if change is needed.

A G.E.D. is usually enough to enter a police academy.

See bolded.

I see the bolded...If you want to be a police officer then maybe you shouldn't commit felonious acts. Are you implying they can't become police officers because they are all felons.

No, I'm telling you that similarly situated white people are less likely to be kept from becoming police officers than black people because of the same actions taken in youth/early adulthood. It's a cycle. Poor communities are more likely to raise beat cops than rich communities. Poor youth are more likely to get into trouble.

White 18-year-old high school dropout gets caught with a dime bag and gets off with a warning or pleads guilty to a non-serious offense (loitering, obstruction, reckless driving) and three years later he's got a G.E.D. and is a police officer.

Black 18-year-old high school dropout gets caught with a dime back and gets charged with felony possession and three years later he's got a G.E.D. and is working for minimum wage at a Wendy's.

 

[SIDA!]

How stupid is this grand jury to announce this at 10PM?

Please watch the first minute of this and tell me why you think announcing this during the day would have been better?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgCiC6qTtjs

 

[Ditka Butkus]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

Well it may be a high school education with a community college police academy or maybe a bachelors degree in criminal justice etc...It is kind of up to the police departments themselves....I'm not saying they don't have it...but if they do then why not join and make a change if change is needed.

A G.E.D. is usually enough to enter a police academy.

See bolded.

I see the bolded...If you want to be a police officer then maybe you shouldn't commit felonious acts. Are you implying they can't become police officers because they are all felons.

No, I'm telling you that similarly situated white people are less likely to be kept from becoming police officers than black people because of the same actions taken in youth/early adulthood. It's a cycle. Poor communities are more likely to raise beat cops than rich communities. Poor youth are more likely to get into trouble.

White 18-year-old high school dropout gets caught with a dime bag and gets off with a warning or pleads guilty to a non-serious offense (loitering, obstruction, reckless driving) and three years later he's got a G.E.D. and is a police officer.

Black 18-year-old high school dropout gets caught with a dime back and gets charged with felony possession and three years later he's got a G.E.D. and is working for minimum wage at a Wendy's.

You forgot to mention that maybe the black youth had an extensive rap sheet and may have been carrying a gun at the time of his arrest.

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

How stupid is this grand jury to announce this at 10PM?

Not stupid at all. Would you rather have them announce it at noon when most of the residents are at work and kids at school? Imagine trying to get home to your family or get kids out of school with all of this mess going on.

Announcing late meant that the majority of the law abiding adults and children were safely home. Wise move IMO.

 

[SIDA!]

I was really pissed off at the looters last night (still am) and used words like scum and animals to describe them. What really bothered me was not just the fact that they were ruining things for the vast majority of peaceful protestors, but that this was not spontaneous: these ####ers knew what was going to happen and were eager to take advantage of it. That's why so many wore masks.

But some of the rhetoric here is way over the top. We need to keep a little perspective. It would be more accurate to say that the looters were normal people who chose to act like thugs, scum, animals, etc. If caught they should be prosecuted for their crimes. But they don't deserve to die.

95% Tim. You made it 95% of the way through this simple, thoughtful post, then you went off the rails with your last sentence. Good Lord.

so you think they do deserve to die?

Where has anyone indicated that a proper punishment for looters should be death?

Um. Me. In fact, it is legally justifiable.

As a citizen of this country am I only allowed to stand outside my store and say, "Pretty please, with cherry on top, don't loot my store?" while the police officers I pay taxes to support stand around a mile down the street so as not to "inflame" tensions?

If you were on a jury you are going to convict a business owner of shooting looters when you see dozens of businesses vandalized?

Absolutely I would.

So you believe that property owners have no right to protect their business during mass unrest and anarchy? Please tell me what you think the available remedies are for a business owner?

 

[Henry Ford]

You forgot to mention that maybe the black youth had an extensive rap sheet and may have been carrying a gun at the time of his arrest.

I also forgot the same thing about the white youth.

 

[matttyl]

So, for the national chain stores, O'Reilly Auto, Little Ceasar's, etc... what is the upside to rebuilding these stores?

Even if they wanted to good luck getting insurance in that area.

Does insurance even cover loss during a riot? I thought that was usually one of the standard exceptions.

I've never dealt with an insurance policy that excludes riots from coverage.

Some may exclude an "act of war", which you can typically find in life insurance contracts. There were a lot of questions about that definition after 9/11.

 

[lod01]

People pulling good quotes from transcripts in the comments on this page:

http://gawker.com/read-the-ferguson-grand-jury-testimony-and-witness-inte-1663029540

This one is amazing.

Wilson literally fired a shot without looking where he was aiming. A police officer did that.

You are grasping at straws. You got your ### handed to you in this verdict and on this thread and this manure is all you can come up with? Give up already. It's really an embarrassing display. He pointed his gun in the direction of the fat thug at his window.

 

[lod01]

How stupid is this grand jury to announce this at 10PM?

Not stupid at all. Would you rather have them announce it at noon when most of the residents are at work and kids at school? Imagine trying to get home to your family or get kids out of school with all of this mess going on.

Announcing late meant that the majority of the law abiding adults and children were safely home. Wise move IMO.

He apologizes. He typed before he used common sense.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

the white youth.

Totally different.

 

[Henry Ford]

So, for the national chain stores, O'Reilly Auto, Little Ceasar's, etc... what is the upside to rebuilding these stores?

Even if they wanted to good luck getting insurance in that area.

Does insurance even cover loss during a riot? I thought that was usually one of the standard exceptions.

I've never dealt with an insurance policy that excludes riots from coverage.

Some may exclude an "act of war", which you can typically find in life insurance contracts. There were a lot of questions about that definition after 9/11.

The Ferguson riots are definitely not an act of war.

 

[tom22406]

Some footage from a Detroit reporter who was on the streets during the night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhmQRa3NKV8

 

[whoknew]

Um. Me. In fact, it is legally justifiable.

As a citizen of this country am I only allowed to stand outside my store and say, "Pretty please, with cherry on top, don't loot my store?" while the police officers I pay taxes to support stand around a mile down the street so as not to "inflame" tensions?

If you were on a jury you are going to convict a business owner of shooting looters when you see dozens of businesses vandalized?

Absolutely I would.

So you believe that property owners have no right to protect their business during mass unrest and anarchy? Please tell me what you think the available remedies are for a business owner?

I do not know Missouri law, but I'd be surprised if a business owner had the right to use deadly force to protect his commercial property. But I could be wrong.

 

[whiskey7]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community is that the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

Simple solution for the black community if they distrust white police officers....Get the right education and become police officers.

What education would that be?

And there's another serious issue related to our rates of prosecution and incarceration of minorities in this country. Minorities are disproportionately prosecuted with felony charges and drug charges when compared to similarly situated whites. As a result, they are disqualified from being police officers. It doesn't help.

Whatever education is required by the applicable police departments.

Yes, I'm asking what you think that is, and why you think "the black community" doesn't have it.

Well it may be a high school education with a community college police academy or maybe a bachelors degree in criminal justice etc...It is kind of up to the police departments themselves....I'm not saying they don't have it...but if they do then why not join and make a change if change is needed.

A G.E.D. is usually enough to enter a police academy.

See bolded.

I see the bolded...If you want to be a police officer then maybe you shouldn't commit felonious acts. Are you implying they can't become police officers because they are all felons.

No, I'm telling you that similarly situated white people are less likely to be kept from becoming police officers than black people because of the same actions taken in youth/early adulthood. It's a cycle. Poor communities are more likely to raise beat cops than rich communities. Poor youth are more likely to get into trouble.

White 18-year-old high school dropout gets caught with a dime bag and gets off with a warning or pleads guilty to a non-serious offense (loitering, obstruction, reckless driving) and three years later he's got a G.E.D. and is a police officer.

Black 18-year-old high school dropout gets caught with a dime back and gets charged with felony possession and three years later he's got a G.E.D. and is working for minimum wage at a Wendy's.

Don't get caught with a dime bag then. Simple.

Want me to be more sympathetic to the idea blacks are unequally targeted by cops? Start showing me examples of blacks who are doing nothing wrong yet still getting busted/harassed. In almost all of these cases we hear about, these individuals were in the process of breaking the law and/or had warrants out for previous crimes. Don't be a troublemaker and then cry about how people are looking at/treating you as a troublemaker. Simple.

 

[saintfool]

i haven't looked at the evidence. I plan on it. So far though as a general rule, liberals tend to believe the evidence points toward Brown being wrongfully killed, and conservatives believe it was justified .

So common sense (guy steals cigars, is considered a suspect, is confronted, goes after officer's gun and is shot in the head), evades a liberal and is a staple of a conservative.

IIRC, that wasn't why PO Wilson confronted the Brown. he didn't know anything about the theft at the time.

 

[CowboysFromHell]

St. Louis County police chief: "It wouldn't have made any difference if the news was released in the morning."

Like what else is he going to say? We screwed up announcing this at night! In the meantime, I am taking inventory of buddies I can count on to post up with me and shoot people if my office building is ever the victim of a riot.....

The rioting was likely to happen under cover of darkness regardless. That's what happened in August, right? So, why announce early in the day and give them time to get amped up and organized?

 

[Smack Tripper]

Um. Me. In fact, it is legally justifiable.

As a citizen of this country am I only allowed to stand outside my store and say, "Pretty please, with cherry on top, don't loot my store?" while the police officers I pay taxes to support stand around a mile down the street so as not to "inflame" tensions?

If you were on a jury you are going to convict a business owner of shooting looters when you see dozens of businesses vandalized?

Absolutely I would.

So you believe that property owners have no right to protect their business during mass unrest and anarchy? Please tell me what you think the available remedies are for a business owner?

I do not know Missouri law, but I'd be surprised if a business owner had the right to use deadly force to protect his commercial property. But I could be wrong.

but ipso facto, if you are in front of said property, you do have a right to protect yourself.

 

[SIDA!]

i haven't looked at the evidence. I plan on it. So far though as a general rule, liberals tend to believe the evidence points toward Brown being wrongfully killed, and conservatives believe it was justified .

So common sense (guy steals cigars, is considered a suspect, is confronted, goes after officer's gun and is shot in the head), evades a liberal and is a staple of a conservative.

IIRC, that wasn't why PO Wilson confronted the Brown. he didn't know anything about the theft at the time.

Not true. That myth has been dispelled.

The record shows that the officer received word of a suspect matching Brown's description.

 

[matttyl]

What good did the looting do? That is what I am having a hard time understanding. I get the anger. Just don't understand the leap from being extremely angry to burning buildings, robbing businesses, etc. Did those business owners contribute to the perceived miscarriage of justice? So if Michael Brown really was an innocent victim of police brutality, the solution is to burn down the neighborhood of the very people who are oppressed? Insane.

I think the general issue here is the breakdown of the social contract. The reason we don't steal from people, or destroy other people's things is that we are in a social contract with them - we all live together and create a society. In the view of much of the low-income and/or African American community, the social contract is meaningless when the establishment (in many cases, if not most, the "white establishment") can gun down members of their community and face no repercussions.

As a result, if the social contract has broken down to the point where their lives are not protected or valued, they have no issue with breaching their part of the social contract by stealing, destroying, etc.

I think you're making two mistakes, or misrepresentations here. You're assuming that Brown was "gunned down" for no cause - meaning you're assuming guilt (I didn't think we as a society could do that, nor can you as a lawyer). Also, you say "and face no repercussions" - but wasn't there a trial (or possibly more accurately a trial for a trial)?

 

[whoknew]

Um. Me. In fact, it is legally justifiable.

As a citizen of this country am I only allowed to stand outside my store and say, "Pretty please, with cherry on top, don't loot my store?" while the police officers I pay taxes to support stand around a mile down the street so as not to "inflame" tensions?

If you were on a jury you are going to convict a business owner of shooting looters when you see dozens of businesses vandalized?

Absolutely I would.

So you believe that property owners have no right to protect their business during mass unrest and anarchy? Please tell me what you think the available remedies are for a business owner?

I do not know Missouri law, but I'd be surprised if a business owner had the right to use deadly force to protect his commercial property. But I could be wrong.

but ipso facto, if you are in front of said property, you do have a right to protect yourself.

Assuming the looters were coming after the shop owner and not just the property.