Looting in Missouri after cops shoot 18 year old (1 Viewer)

[Cyclones]

I don't want to get shot by a cop or anyone else. Ergo, I am not going to be sitting around one day and decide to go rob a store, then when confronted, decide to engage a cop in combat.

I think there are plenty of ####ty cops out there. At the same time, judging reactions that happen in real time with an actual physical threat present is stupid. Could the cop have not killed the guy? Maybe. Perhaps even probably. The point here is that if you willingly commit a crime you should realize you put yourself in a position to face ramifications for said crime. It sucks that this guy paid with his life, but a string of terrible decisions led to his death.

 

[Harry Manback]

White guilt is fascinating

 

[Smack Tripper]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

 

[skol asylum]

This is helpful...

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bwp9pXzP38vdQ0VxQkdoa3NPY3c/edit?usp=docslist_api

 

[TobiasFunke]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

I believe a few black owned and operated businesses were looted and vandalized last night.

 

[Bucky86]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

I believe a few black owned and operated businesses were looted and vandalized last night.

Yup. The criminal looters don't really care. They were just looking for an opportunity.

 

[Cyclones]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

I believe a few black owned and operated businesses were looted and vandalized last night.

They foolishly forgot to hang one of these signs.

"closed for the struggle"

 

[Billy Bats]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

 

[[icon]]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Any federal action is unlikely. But a civil suit makes sense for the Brown family. There would be a trial. Wilson would have to testify and be cross examined. If he wrongfully killed Michael Brown they can ruin him financially, and the Ferguson police department could be exposed as well.

He was acting as a police officer. I don't see how they could ruin him financially. Any reward would come from the city.

He was not acting as a police officer when he pulled out his weapon, took aim, and unloaded his clip into the decedent. He was a cold-blooded killer, who was tired of taking crap from black youths. It was time to lay down the law.

Are you working on a screenplay?

 

[Smack Tripper]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

I believe a few black owned and operated businesses were looted and vandalized last night.

I read scuttlebutt that this guy was targeted because it is the store that Brown robbed. Who, lets be honest, menanced this guy or one the fellow people that run the shop, again because he was smaller and weaker.

Power dynamics are tricky, AMIRITE?

 

[Fennis]

Not sure we should go down this path in this thread, but I don't believe that immigrants are "lower on the social pecking order".

 

[[icon]]

But Wilson thought he was going to die after he was punched twice through a car window.

Maybe Wilson is a helpless weakling.

You might want to read the documents surrounding the case before making statements like this... you're coming off as someone ignorant of the facts.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Officer Wilson is 6'4 210 lbs, the same height as Brown, and was an armed police officer who presumably had some training in fighting/subduing suspects without the use of a weapon. Brown was just fatter than him- that's literally the only "advantage" he would have had in a fight.

Brown had 100 lbs on him, that's like a welterweight fighting a heavyweight... It is a gigantic advantage, this isn't really debatable.

Yes, I'm sure Eli Manning could take on JPP and hold up just fine.....

There's a difference between an NFL defensive end and a fat 18 year old. Just as there's a difference between a guy who's armed and trained in fighting/subduing suspects and one who's not.

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

True. The problem is that whether some communities like it or not a fair fight doesn't exist between a police officer and anyone else in society. They have a certain amount of authority and power that eliminates the possibility that should should expect any outcome of such an encounter to be equal to two civilians having a fist fight.

 

[SIDA!]

Not sure we should go down this path in this thread, but I don't believe that immigrants are "lower on the social pecking order".

I don't think there is anything earth shattering about making a statement that minorities often look negatively on other minorities or hold racist/bigoted beliefs. I realize that many people (not saying you are one of them) think that it is impossible for blacks or hispanics to actually be racists and that that is domain expressly reserved for whites, but the reality is much different.

 

[fantasycurse42]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

Akai Gurley who was killed in a NY housing project last week was shot by a rookie black officer... Notice the outrage and publicity on this one is minimal.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

I believe a few black owned and operated businesses were looted and vandalized last night.

I read scuttlebutt that this guy was targeted because it is the store that Brown robbed. Who, lets be honest, menanced this guy or one the fellow people that run the shop, again because he was smaller and weaker.

Power dynamics are tricky, AMIRITE?

I guess? You were wrong about it not happening if the business was black owned and operated, though.

 

[HellToupee]

Not sure we should go down this path in this thread, but I don't believe that immigrants are "lower on the social pecking order".

Totally downward spiral but I've had 3 different workers from Africa(Nigeria) and they seem to think they are above African-Americans . I was floored by racist comments

 

[Yankee23Fan]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

That's the "cops can't shoot you in the back while running" case, right?

 

[TobiasFunke]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Or just read my post. I didn't make any statement about whether the use of force was justified or not. I was just noting that the "helpless weakling" narrative presented by Wilson in his testimony (the "Hulk Hogan" line, the general narrative of him being at the mercy of Brown during the altercation by the car) doesn't really hold water.

 

[Billy Bats]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

Akai Gurley who was killed in a NY housing project last week was shot by a rookie black officer... Notice the outrage and publicity on this one is minimal.

I haven't heard about that incident either.

 

[Bucky86]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Or just read my post. I didn't make any statement about whether the use of force was justified or not. I was just noting that the "helpless weakling" narrative presented by Wilson in his testimony (the "Hulk Hogan" line, the general narrative of him being at the mercy of Brown during the altercation by the car) doesn't really hold water.

Worked for Zimmerman.

 

[Smack Tripper]

Racism runs down hill

what does this mean?

As I see it, black people feel put upon by white people. And in turn, a significant portion of the black community lashes out at immigrant minority communities as they are "lower" on the social pecking order.

It is my opinion, if this business were black O and O, this would not have happened.

I believe a few black owned and operated businesses were looted and vandalized last night.

I read scuttlebutt that this guy was targeted because it is the store that Brown robbed. Who, lets be honest, menanced this guy or one the fellow people that run the shop, again because he was smaller and weaker.

Power dynamics are tricky, AMIRITE?

I guess? You were wrong about it not happening if the business was black owned and operated, though.

fair enough, this I concede

 

[whiskey7]

I don't want to get shot by a cop or anyone else. Ergo, I am not going to be sitting around one day and decide to go rob a store, then when confronted, decide to engage a cop in combat.

I think there are plenty of ####ty cops out there. At the same time, judging reactions that happen in real time with an actual physical threat present is stupid. Could the cop have not killed the guy? Maybe. Perhaps even probably. The point here is that if you willingly commit a crime you should realize you put yourself in a position to face ramifications for said crime. It sucks that this guy paid with his life, but a string of terrible decisions led to his death.

This

Furthermore, if I truly believe cops have it out for me and are just looking to wrong me, why on earth am I going to do ANYTHING to draw attention to myself? I am not going to break curfew. I am not going to do/possess drugs. I am not going to steal cigars/cell phones/cars/etc. I am not going to assault people. I am not going to carry a gun illegally. I am not going to walk down the middle of the friggin street. I am going to be on my best god-damned behavior so as not to give these cops who have it out for me the tiniest bit of cause/provocation to even look in my direction.

For as scared and distrusting of the police as a lot of black people claim to be, sure seems like a lot of them do not act in a manner consistent with fear or distrust.

 

[SIDA!]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

Akai Gurley who was killed in a NY housing project last week was shot by a rookie black officer... Notice the outrage and publicity on this one is minimal.

Doesn't fit the oppressed black man narrative as well.

 

[Apple Jack]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

Akai Gurley who was killed in a NY housing project last week was shot by a rookie black officer... Notice the outrage and publicity on this one is minimal.

Not sure what that has to do with the racial tension between the black community and police force in Ferguson, MO.

 

[[icon]]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Please do unpack the relevance of a case discussing shooting a suspect while pursuit through neighborhood yards holds bearing over shooting a suspect who's actively assaulting an officer and attempting to steal his firearm, then charging him again in a secondary engagement?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

9 white, 3 black

 

[[icon]]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Or just read my post. I didn't make any statement about whether the use of force was justified or not. I was just noting that the "helpless weakling" narrative presented by Wilson in his testimony (the "Hulk Hogan" line, the general narrative of him being at the mercy of Brown during the altercation by the car) doesn't really hold water.

Straw man. As soon as an individual strikes an officer and engages in a struggle for his weapon, the officer immediately is justified in using leathal force. Period.

 

[meatwad1]

White guilt is fascinating

Just call it what it really is...abject stupidity.

 

[Henry Ford]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

That's the "cops can't shoot you in the back while running" case, right?

Yes. Or more generally, the case that holds that the use of deadly force is only justified if the officer holds an objectively reasonable belief that the suspect poses a threat of inflicting imminent grave bodily harm on the officer or others at the time the force is applied.

To be clear, a jury could have come to that conclusion in a criminal trial. There was exculpatory evidence supporting that view. But the grand jury is not tasked with finding whether there was exculpatory evidence sufficient to defeat the presumption of innocence. That's the petit jury's job. They are tasked only to find whether there is probable cause. It would be a very rare case indeed where any self defense claim, which is going to require a jury to weigh the evidence, could defeat the probable cause standard. We have a dead body and we know the shooter.

 

[meatwad1]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

Akai Gurley who was killed in a NY housing project last week was shot by a rookie black officer... Notice the outrage and publicity on this one is minimal.

Doesn't fit the oppressed black man narrative as well.

Yes...these protesters are beyond pathetic. Anyone who defends them here really show the level they are thinking at.

 

[HellToupee]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

why no asian?

 

[Henry Ford]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Or just read my post. I didn't make any statement about whether the use of force was justified or not. I was just noting that the "helpless weakling" narrative presented by Wilson in his testimony (the "Hulk Hogan" line, the general narrative of him being at the mercy of Brown during the altercation by the car) doesn't really hold water.

Straw man. As soon as an individual strikes an officer and engages in a struggle for his weapon, the officer immediately is justified in using leathal force. Period.

For how long? Like, if the guy escapes and gets home, gets a good night's sleep, wakes up the next morning, brews his coffee, and then hears a knock at the door, when he opens the door can the officer shoot him?

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

Does it have to be unanimous?

 

[Parrothead]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

why no asian?

cause they can't drive

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Please do unpack the relevance of a case discussing shooting a suspect while pursuit through neighborhood yards holds bearing over shooting a suspect who's actively assaulting an officer and attempting to steal his firearm, then charging him again in a secondary engagement?

The relevance is that it is not established that the suspect was shot while actively assaulting an officer and attempting to steal his firearm. The suspect's body was nearly 200 feet from the officer. Which means that there is a dispute of material fact as to whether the suspect was, in fact, fleeing. So long as that ambiguity exists, probable cause exists.

 

[Billy Bats]

So the cop that shot and killed a 12 yo in Cleveland over the weekend was an African American officer? Anybody know?

Akai Gurley who was killed in a NY housing project last week was shot by a rookie black officer... Notice the outrage and publicity on this one is minimal.

Not sure what that has to do with the racial tension between the black community and police force in Ferguson, MO.

I thought they were rioting last night because a cop killed another black man in America?

 

[[icon]]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Or just read my post. I didn't make any statement about whether the use of force was justified or not. I was just noting that the "helpless weakling" narrative presented by Wilson in his testimony (the "Hulk Hogan" line, the general narrative of him being at the mercy of Brown during the altercation by the car) doesn't really hold water.

Straw man. As soon as an individual strikes an officer and engages in a struggle for his weapon, the officer immediately is justified in using leathal force. Period.

For how long? Like, if the guy escapes and gets home, gets a good night's sleep, wakes up the next morning, brews his coffee, and then hears a knock at the door, when he opens the door can the officer shoot him?

Your use of absurd scenarios does nothing but show there's no valid scenario to relay. If the guy charges the officer again he's exhibited intent to do the officer lethal harm, and therefore the officer is legally justified in using lethal force.... as was shown by last nights fail to indict officer Wilson.

 

[Billy Bats]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

Does it have to be unanimous?

Need 9 to indict.

 

[mr roboto]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

why no asian?

Too busy studying or working.

 

[Henry Ford]

Your use of absurd scenarios does nothing but show there's no valid scenario to relay. If the guy charges the officer again he's exhibited intent to do the officer lethal harm, and therefore the officer is legally justified in using lethal force.... as was shown by last nights fail to indict officer Wilson.

Very little was shown by last night's fail.

 

[SIDA!]

Anybody ever hear what the racial makeup of the grand jury is?

One black man, two black women, six white men, and three white women.

Does it have to be unanimous?

Need 9 of the 12 to vote for charges to be brought.

 

[[icon]]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Please do unpack the relevance of a case discussing shooting a suspect while pursuit through neighborhood yards holds bearing over shooting a suspect who's actively assaulting an officer and attempting to steal his firearm, then charging him again in a secondary engagement?

The relevance is that it is not established that the suspect was shot while actively assaulting an officer and attempting to steal his firearm. The suspect's body was nearly 200 feet from the officer. Which means that there is a dispute of material fact as to whether the suspect was, in fact, fleeing. So long as that ambiguity exists, probable cause exists.

Did you read the witness accounts? It seems that's exactly what was established.

Again, simply charging an officer after already clearly displaying previous intent to do serious/lethal harm (punching and attempting to steal firearm) is a clear path to lethal force in ANY LEO use of force continuum training.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

That's the "cops can't shoot you in the back while running" case, right?

Yes. Or more generally, the case that holds that the use of deadly force is only justified if the officer holds an objectively reasonable belief that the suspect poses a threat of inflicting imminent grave bodily harm on the officer or others at the time the force is applied.

To be clear, a jury could have come to that conclusion in a criminal trial. There was exculpatory evidence supporting that view. But the grand jury is not tasked with finding whether there was exculpatory evidence sufficient to defeat the presumption of innocence. That's the petit jury's job. They are tasked only to find whether there is probable cause. It would be a very rare case indeed where any self defense claim, which is going to require a jury to weigh the evidence, could defeat the probable cause standard. We have a dead body and we know the shooter.

I know the process. I've also had a client sit in for the ham sandwich when the prosecutor wanted to get his numbers up. So there is some level of contempt in my belief system for the acceptance that anyone can be indicted because being indicted sucks. Not as much as going to prison, but it sucks. Far too many people seem to think that we should just indict everyone and let the trial take care of the outcome and that just screams of ignorance and stupidity to me. Still, in this case, yeah, it's definately not the norm to treat the grand jury like a trial jury by giving them everything.

The one question that I wanted a reporter at the press conference to ask, and the only one that I really wanted them to ask was how many cases were brought before this specific grand jury and how many indictments did they hand down. IF this is the only case that they didn't hand an indictment down on...... well, then I can understand the political ramifications that the Office of the Prosecutor should face, but of course not any of the violence.

 

[[icon]]

Your use of absurd scenarios does nothing but show there's no valid scenario to relay. If the guy charges the officer again he's exhibited intent to do the officer lethal harm, and therefore the officer is legally justified in using lethal force.... as was shown by last nights fail to indict officer Wilson.

Very little was shown by last night's fail.

To those who are either unable or unwilling to read the facts of the case, I would agree.

 

[Cyclones]

This is a silly argument. I think we can all agree that Brown weighed a lot more than Wilson but that Wilson also wouldn't be a helpless weakling in a scuffle with Brown.

You might want to do some reading into "Escalation of Force" training for law enforcement officers before making silly statements like the bolded. Once a criminal makes the decision to assault an officer, they essentially defer to the officer's judgement as to what is a reasonable use of counter-force. The criminal actively chose to engage the officer, thereby accepting the fact that that the officer can and will use any force necessary to ensure he minimizes risk of harm to himself and citizens around him.

And you should probably read Tennessee v. Garner.

Or just read my post. I didn't make any statement about whether the use of force was justified or not. I was just noting that the "helpless weakling" narrative presented by Wilson in his testimony (the "Hulk Hogan" line, the general narrative of him being at the mercy of Brown during the altercation by the car) doesn't really hold water.

Straw man. As soon as an individual strikes an officer and engages in a struggle for his weapon, the officer immediately is justified in using leathal force. Period.

For how long? Like, if the guy escapes and gets home, gets a good night's sleep, wakes up the next morning, brews his coffee, and then hears a knock at the door, when he opens the door can the officer shoot him?

Henry I think you are a great poster but come on. This all happened in the span of a minute or so. Brown had already showed that he was willing to engage Wilson and attempt to extricate his gun. Once he disengaged and temporarily moved away from Wilson, he had two choices - get on the ground and surrender or decide to move back toward the officer. He chose poorly.