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Lots of "veto trade?" threads (1 Viewer)

Horses Mouth

Footballguy
Hi everyone,

I'm scrolling through the first few pages and unless there is clear collusion, commissioners should not be vetoing trades. Trading is very subjective and no one can predict the future.

Vetoing "rights" were implemented to avoid a losing team colluding with a winning team and splitting the winnings. Just like the real legal system, commissioners should ask themselves if there is enough proof of collusion to warrant a phone call to the owners and ask questions. Proactive commissioners should talk openly to the owners, not via league message boards, and only intervene when collusion is evident in order to avoid undermining the league's integrity for everyone else, NOT because you think team A is taking team B to the cleaners.

HM.

 
Agree, look at the Dallas Roy Williams trade, H. Walker trade, Ricky Williams draft day trade. Bad trades happen, its not your job to try to keep competitive balance in the league and its not your team. If its a bad trade and not collusion, just shake your head and move on.

 
I think there should be a Commissioner's Forum and that would be a fine place for them - without that they should all be moved to the AC forum

 
I think there should be a Commissioner's Forum and that would be a fine place for them - without that they should all be moved to the AC forum
:goodposting: There's a lot of crap in here. I've never clicked on it, but who cares "what's the worst dynasty trade you've been offered?" I see threads like that pop up all the time and they actually get a lot of replies. Means there must be an interest, but it just doesn't belong in the shark pool.
 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.

 
One league I am in:

We have a "collusion team" of 4 owners. Once a trade comes, if there is concern of collusion by any of the 4 (rotates yearly) it is brought for discussion. If the trade involves the any of the 4 owners, the discussion occurs among the remaining team. If anyone of the 4 agrees, there is a conversation with the teams involved in the trade and their line of thinking is requested. FWIW, there has never been a need to even have the initial discussion amongst the 4.

This provides a built in guard against collusion issues, while not leaving the decision up to the masses nor a single entity.

 
I think there should be a Commissioner's Forum and that would be a fine place for them - without that they should all be moved to the AC forum
AGREED!FBG needs a Commissioner's Corner Forum. There is plenty of discussion that could happen in there.

I also think there are some shortcomings on the veto advice given here. 95% of the posters say No Collusion = No Veto. I believe there is a special circumstance that is occuring more frequently every year as fantasy football grows in popularity. I will use my main money league as the perfect example.

I started the league started in 2006 with 8 managers who had never played FF before and 2 managers who had played for a year or two. We were all friends and were excited to see what this game was all about. I printed out my ESPN rankings on the day of my draft and made sure to reach on Tampa's Defense so I could cheer them on as I rooted for my favorite team.

None of us really knew what we were doing, but we all were quickly becoming addicted to the game. Trades were happening left and right, but none of us were really savvy enough to know when a major fleece had taken place.

That all changed in the 2nd year. By this time everyone in the league thought they were an expert and knew exactly how valuable every player was. Guys were starting to get emotional over this stuff. We had one manager in the league who was clearly weaker than the rest and he made three trades over the first 5 weeks with a single other manager. No collusion was occuring, we just had one manager who focused on fleecing our weak manager. Over the course of the three trades, he was able to acquire the weak manager's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 8th round picks. Any of the trades alone would have gotten a whole page of DO NOT VETO if I had posted them on the FBG forum, but they combined for a championship roster to the preying manager.

The third year of our league began and another trade went through between these two managers before week 1 even started. I didn't think it was a bad trade, but the league was up in arms. People were threatening to quit and demanding that the trade be vetoed through our 3 man trade review committee. The stronger manager in the trade threatened to quit if the trade was vetoed, citing my rules that only collusion should be vetoed.

I went to the league message board and established a new, simple rule: Anyone who quits for ANY reason will not be refunded their money and will never be invited back to the league. Then the review committee allowed the trade to go through.

Since that time we have added two new members and everyone has moved up the learning curve enough that fleece trades don't really ever happen anymore. There are a lot fewer trades in general as everone is so afraid of getting ripped off.

My point here is that leagues go through an evolution, especially when you are dealing with new players. Fleece trades are bad for the league and it's not as simple as No Collusion = No Veto. If you are in a league with friends, family, or co-workers, the relationships are more important than the league. I don't think you set up a very fun environment if the goal of your league is to rip off the weaker manager as quickly as possible before someone else does. I don't like the idea of veto's in general, but I think they can serve a purpose to keep guppy leagues fun for everyone until new managers catch up to speed.

I have an idea that most here will hate, but I think would have worked well in the early years of my league: No one can trade their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round picks. This doesn't really hamper anyone as you can still make trades, but it's harder for one manager to build a super team through the weakness of another.

 
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I think there should be a Commissioner's Forum and that would be a fine place for them - without that they should all be moved to the AC forum
AGREED!FBG needs a Commissioner's Corner Forum. There is plenty of discussion that could happen in there.

I also think there are some shortcomings on the veto advice given here. 95% of the posters say No Collusion = No Veto. I believe there is a special circumstance that is occuring more frequently every year as fantasy football grows in popularity. I will use my main money league as the perfect example.

I started the league started in 2006 with 8 managers who had never played FF before and 2 managers who had played for a year or two. We were all friends and were excited to see what this game was all about. I printed out my ESPN rankings on the day of my draft and made sure to reach on Tampa's Defense so I could cheer them on as I rooted for my favorite team.

None of us really knew what we were doing, but we all were quickly becoming addicted to the game. Trades were happening left and right, but none of us were really savvy enough to know when a major fleece had taken place.

That all changed in the 2nd year. By this time everyone in the league thought they were an expert and knew exactly how valuable every player was. Guys were starting to get emotional over this stuff. We had one manager in the league who was clearly weaker than the rest and he made three trades over the first 5 weeks with a single other manager. No collusion was occuring, we just had one manager who focused on fleecing our weak manager. Over the course of the three trades, he was able to acquire the weak manager's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 8th round picks. Any of the trades alone would have gotten a whole page of DO NOT VETO if I had posted them on the FBG forum, but they combined for a championship roster to the preying manager.

The third year of our league began and another trade went through between these two managers before week 1 even started. I didn't think it was a bad trade, but the league was up in arms. People were threatening to quit and demanding that the trade be vetoed through our 3 man trade review committee. The stronger manager in the trade threatened to quit if the trade was vetoed, citing my rules that only collusion should be vetoed.

I went to the league message board and established a new, simple rule: Anyone who quits for ANY reason will not be refunded their money and will never be invited back to the league. Then the review committee allowed the trade to go through.

Since that time we have added two new members and everyone has moved up the learning curve enough that fleece trades don't really ever happen anymore. There are a lot fewer trades in general as everone is so afraid of getting ripped off.

My point here is that leagues go through an evolution, especially when you are dealing with new players. Fleece trades are bad for the league and it's not as simple as No Collusion = No Veto. If you are in a league with friends, family, or co-workers, the relationships are more important than the league. I don't think you set up a very fun environment if the goal of your league is to rip off the weaker manager as quickly as possible before someone else does. I don't like the idea of veto's in general, but I think they can serve a purpose to keep guppy leagues fun for everyone until new managers catch up to speed.

I have an idea that most here will hate, but I think would have worked well in the early years of my league: No one can trade their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round picks. This doesn't really hamper anyone as you can still make trades, but it's harder for one manager to build a super team through the weakness of another.
I like this posting almost as much as I do the response in my sig. But I'll keep my sig as is because it's shorter. :P
 
'Horses Mouth said:
Hi everyone,

I'm scrolling through the first few pages and unless there is clear collusion, commissioners should not be vetoing trades. Trading is very subjective and no one can predict the future.

Vetoing "rights" were implemented to avoid a losing team colluding with a winning team and splitting the winnings. Just like the real legal system, commissioners should ask themselves if there is enough proof of collusion to warrant a phone call to the owners and ask questions. Proactive commissioners should talk openly to the owners, not via league message boards, and only intervene when collusion is evident in order to avoid undermining the league's integrity for everyone else, NOT because you think team A is taking team B to the cleaners.

HM.
That thought is better than "only if the collusion is PROVEN". Proven. So, if the cheaters don't admit it, they can get away with murder, laugh at the rest of the league, and maybe face expulsion from the league at the end of the season?
 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
 
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Problem I see is that we just need more social enforcement. We need to stop the sarcasm and just bluntly tell people that ask for veto advice to quit playing the game. If people don't get that you should never veto a trade unless collusion is involved, then they shouldn't play at all. Tell them to quit and never play again.

 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
As he said. Commishners should have sole veto power. Thats why he is the Commish! Get a good Commish, abolish vetos.
 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
You offer no explanation for why it's good to have sole veto power.If you have never had to use it why do you think it is necessary to have the sole veto power?
 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
I also prefer sole commish veto power. I'm in a dynasty league (8 years) where I've never seen a trade vetoed (sole commish power). And I'm in the 2nd year of a long running redraft where i've had two trades vetoed by the owners. :thumbdown:
 
'Horses Mouth said:
Hi everyone,

I'm scrolling through the first few pages and unless there is clear collusion, commissioners should not be vetoing trades. Trading is very subjective and no one can predict the future.

Vetoing "rights" were implemented to avoid a losing team colluding with a winning team and splitting the winnings. Just like the real legal system, commissioners should ask themselves if there is enough proof of collusion to warrant a phone call to the owners and ask questions. Proactive commissioners should talk openly to the owners, not via league message boards, and only intervene when collusion is evident in order to avoid undermining the league's integrity for everyone else, NOT because you think team A is taking team B to the cleaners.

HM.
That thought is better than "only if the collusion is PROVEN". Proven. So, if the cheaters don't admit it, they can get away with murder, laugh at the rest of the league, and maybe face expulsion from the league at the end of the season?
Well I see most people saying that every trade should be allowed unless there is collusion. That all sounds good however I've been doing Fantasy football for 15 years in multiple leagues and NEVER seen collusion "PROVEN", never, even when collusion was suspected many times. Owners got away with it. Other than the owners ADMITTING to collusion how do you prove it??? Good luck proving it. Have any of you seen it proven, ever??That is why I also like "only intervene when collusion is evident" statement. The league has to be overseen and monitored real well by a very experienced well respected person. There has to be something in place for this to happen and a way the Commish can step in to make the league run properly.

One league I'm in for 15 years we have something in place we like. We have a "Trade Commission".

Here is our rule:

If you feel that a trade is “questionable”, you may ask for an appeal by E-MAILING the Commissioner.

The e-mail MUST INCLUDE your reasoning for the appeal. If the commissioner receives 5 or more appeals, he will call a meeting of the “Trade Commission”. This group will be made up of 3 league owners, who will then vote on the trade. A majority would be necessary to overturn the deal. If an owner on the Trade Commission is involved in the deal, they

would be excluded from voting on that trade.

IMPORTANT: ANY ATTEMPT TO DUMP PLAYERS, STACK TEAMS, OR CONDUCT TRADES OTHERWISE VIEWED AS ONE-SIDED, UNETHICAL OR INVOLVING THE EXCHANGE OF MONEY ARE STRICTLY ILLEGAL AND ARE SUBJECT TO A LEAGUE VOTE FOR POSSIBLE REMOVAL FROM THE LEAGUE. SUCH TRADES MAY BE VETOED IMMEDIATELY BY THE COMMISSIONER AND UPHELD BY THE “TRADE COMMISSION“. TEAM OWNERS GUILTY OF SAID OFFENSES ARE SUBJECT TO THE LOSS OF THEIR FRANCHISE IMMEDIATELY PENDING A VOTE OF ALL LEAGUE MEMBERS NOT INVOLVED IN THE TRADE.

It's worked for us. It was used once. And it was for a collusion situation as we also have the philosophy of letting trades happen unless there is something really wrong going on.

 
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The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
I also prefer sole commish veto power. I'm in a dynasty league (8 years) where I've never seen a trade vetoed (sole commish power). And I'm in the 2nd year of a long running redraft where i've had two trades vetoed by the owners. :thumbdown:
Find a better league. Considering that the overwhelming consensus in every single one of these veto threads is to allow the trade in the absence of collusion it shouldn't be that difficult to find 12 people who can handle the responsibility of a league vote (which btw is not the only alternative to sole commish veto power).
 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
As he said. Commishners should have sole veto power. Thats why he is the Commish! Get a good Commish, abolish vetos.
This is a ridiculous statement. How can the Commish rule on any possible trade involving the Commish? We have a 3 person rules interpretation committee that reviews anything that comes into question. We rule and explain to the league. We have only had a couple newbs over the years (not complete newbs - but a couple of trade rapes offered up) that we overturned and explained. A big part of our league involves weekly side bets (season-long) with most of the other teams. It is very important not to allow someone to trade rape a newb and hose the rest of the league. But only overturned a couple ridiculous ones over the years.
 
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
I also prefer sole commish veto power. I'm in a dynasty league (8 years) where I've never seen a trade vetoed (sole commish power). And I'm in the 2nd year of a long running redraft where i've had two trades vetoed by the owners. :thumbdown:
Find a better league. Considering that the overwhelming consensus in every single one of these veto threads is to allow the trade in the absence of collusion it shouldn't be that difficult to find 12 people who can handle the responsibility of a league vote (which btw is not the only alternative to sole commish veto power).
Meh. It's a 16 team league. And I know most of the people. It's fun talking smack to people in person. I just make up for the lack of trades by working the waiver better.
 
'Binky The Doormat said:
The first mistake is giving commissioners sole veto power. Even worse if the commish is also an owner in the league.
Respectfully disagree. As a commissioner with sole veto owner, I've never had to overturn a trade - but I would if collusion were evident. I think this is far better than putting things to a league wide vote (a waste of time) or having no provision for dealing with the situation.ETA: I think some of these veto threads are just fishing trips as anyone with the slightest familiarity with the site should know they'll be rebuked soundly for this type of question.
As he said. Commishners should have sole veto power. Thats why he is the Commish! Get a good Commish, abolish vetos.
This is a ridiculous statement. How can the Commish rule on any possible trade involving the Commish? We have a 3 person rules interpretation committee that reviews anything that comes into question. We rule and explain to the league. We have only had a couple newbs over the years (not complete newbs - but a couple of trade rapes offered up) that we overturned and explained. A big part of our league involves weekly side bets (season-long) with most of the other teams. It is very important not to allow someone to trade rape a newb and hose the rest of the league. But only overturned a couple ridiculous ones over the years.
Ridiculous? I post 2 times a month and you gotta throw ridiculous at me?Fine, You can assign an assistant commish to regulate trades involving the commish. My leagues don't even need a Commish. They are keeper leagues and there is a line to get into them. If you suck peer pressure destroys you and if you mortgage the future you are in trouble. Voting on trades is ridiculous.
 
'Binky The Doormat said:
We have a 3 person rules interpretation committee that reviews anything that comes into question.
That must be a huge hit. How many people is on your rod up your ### committee?
 

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