Trade issue in new league - drama ensues (1 Viewer)

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not sure the juice (small gain this season) is worth the squeeze (long term the deal is horrible)

Exactly. Redraft, ok meh but not worth a kerfuffle.

Dynasty it’s potentially kerfuffle-worthy.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Geez, take it easy, HSG.

In what regard?

This: "The more I think about this deal the worse it sounds. It’s actually making me a little mad, and I’m not even in that league."

I fear you may have an aneurysm.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Geez, take it easy, HSG.

In what regard?

This: "The more I think about this deal the worse it sounds. It’s actually making me a little mad, and I’m not even in that league."

I fear you may have an aneurysm.

Nah, I was just being funny. I do hate seeing stuff like this but it doesn’t actually affect me personally.

Rest easy, friend - it’s just a FF message forum.

 

[rockaction]

Third, what @Deamon said above is exactly how I see it

Huh. Deamon, huh?

Outside of collusion, there isn't much you can do as it is stated that nothing but collusion suffices for commissioner review, and the commissioner is one of the parties to the deal.

There. Is he happy?

 

[fruity pebbles]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

In my experience you only get one or two shots at the inexperienced newbie. He will take a bunch of flack from this deal and either go into a shell and refuse to trade anymore or swing the pendulum the other way and attempt to make the value back by offering trades way in his favor.

 

[Zow]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

Yeah this is kind of where I'm at now, but I don't like it.

I'm in like 4 leagues with the commish so I'm contemplating telling him that I may just decline trading with him for the next year or so to drive my point home.

As an update, I requested the league take a vote to immediately implement a trade review committee and change the by-laws to allow for a "competitive balance" metric. Commission is (albeit respectfully) arguing hard against me but did agree to put up a poll to see if the league as a whole wants to change the rules (and then there'd be subsequent polls for the specific changes).

 

[Chaka]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

 

[Zow]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

In my experience you only get one or two shots at the inexperienced newbie. He will take a bunch of flack from this deal and either go into a shell and refuse to trade anymore or swing the pendulum the other way and attempt to make the value back by offering trades way in his favor.

Yep. I've offered him 4 deals that he declined. He's on to the fact that I'm trying to fleece him now. I probably pushed him into a shell but, frankly, that's likely best for the league.

If I'm being completely honest I'm just jealous that another owner who I considered one of my primary competition for the league (and who I thought had an okay but flawed draft), just got all his team's flaws fixed.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

Read my post again.

I’ve only done this once or twice, and *only* for new members who are n00bs to FF & IDP.

Not as a commish, as a friend. Because FF & IDP can be difficult.

It is relevant to the topic.

It has nothing to do with me being “too involved” as a commish. It has everything to do with me being a good friend, and fostering community. It is the opposite of what this slimeball commish did

It’s likely part of why we’ve had just 3 spots turn over in 25+ years, too.

Your judgement is noted.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In my experience you only get one or two shots at the inexperienced newbie. He will take a bunch of flack from this deal and either go into a shell and refuse to trade anymore or swing the pendulum the other way and attempt to make the value back by offering trades way in his favor.

In my experience there’s a 3rd possibility where the n00b realizes he’s been screwed, blows up the league & quits, leaving a worse roster to have to find an owner for.

It can be disruptive.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

Yeah this is kind of where I'm at now, but I don't like it.

I'm in like 4 leagues with the commish so I'm contemplating telling him that I may just decline trading with him for the next year or so to drive my point home.

As an update, I requested the league take a vote to immediately implement a trade review committee and change the by-laws to allow for a "competitive balance" metric. Commission is (albeit respectfully) arguing hard against me but did agree to put up a poll to see if the league as a whole wants to change the rules (and then there'd be subsequent polls for the specific changes).

Regardless of this particular deal, there needs to be a backup commish, and a process for commish recusal when they’re involved in deals.

Otherwise it’s a unilateral thing where the commish is beyond reproach. That’s a weird dictatorial kind of league that I don’t play in.

I’m in 4 leagues. Every one has a process like this.

 

[Gatorman]

It’s a very bad dynasty trade but not completely egregious that it should cause turmoil….yet…I’d keep a close eye on them.

An argument could go that one guy drafted and after felt he looked more like a “win now” team so decided to go all in there.

I don’t know. It would bother me, but not sure the nuclear option makes sense yet.

So, to update on the guy's motivations (I didn't want to include in the OP so as to taint initial responses) is he apparently liked the idea of getting QBs and WRs from the same team (in this case, the Seahawks as he also has JSN and Lockett) and thinks this means he gets double points.

I know this because earlier today I sent the commission (Team B owner and recipient of the apparent windfall) a text just telling him that a lot of us are really disheartened by the trade. He sent me his text exchange with Team A owner where Team A owners explains his motivations.

Seems like Team A owner is new and just clueless as to dynasty/empire strategy.

Maybe have a talk with the commissioner and express your concerns. You’re not accusing him but letting him know maybe the new guy was taken a bit advantage of. Maybe he’ll add a pick or two at least.

Exactly what I did earlier. Commissioner is defending it pretty firmly saying the guy should be able to run his team how he wants.

(Commissioner, this episode notwithstanding, has earned significant credibility so I don't think for a second that he did anything nefarious here. I think he genuinely believes owners should be given free reign and, of course, he knows he "won" this trade and doesn't want to undo it for understandable selfish reasons)

As a commish in multiple leagues, this is my take.

1) Its not "the best" look, but a commish who plays in the league (and why would you be commish if you didn't) has the same right to screw someone in a trade as any other owner. One of the only "perks" of being a commish is you tend to get offers first, or get asked opinions about other offers and can then nose your way into a deal.
2) If you have anyone on this thread say "I'm not sure who got the better end of this deal" then it is not collusion.Many trades that people have made serious hay about have ended up benefitting the owner who supposedly got screwed.
3) Finally: If the commish has always been a straight arrow, this should be nothing more than "strike one". You let this one slide but if things keep happenning then its time to say something.

(being a commish is a thankless job and its worse when owners starts moaning about minutiae. Not saying this isn't worth a raised eyebrow, but if ou trust your commish then let it slide)

 

[Big Nate]

I haven't had time to read all the replies but I think it is a combination of him being new and probably not understanding values and the league settings.

I remember some of my first trades nearly 15 years ago and getting a bit hosed. It happens and unfortunately the new guy may have been taken a bit. Having said that if he plays his cards right Chubb, Geno and DK could have a monster season and he could win now. Very good move if his team can pull of a CHIP. Long term could be tough as Chubb and Geno age out if he can't replace QBs.

I do really like Chubb, DK and Geno for this year but I would prefer the TL Chase side long term.

 

[need2know]

That's a great trade for the commish!

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

2) If you have anyone on this thread say "I'm not sure who got the better end of this deal" then it is not collusion.Many trades that people have made serious hay about have ended up benefitting the owner who supposedly got screwed.

There’s a caveat to that, though… Some have opined that it’s not that bad of a deal, if it’s a short term approach, or redraft league.

Because it is a dynasty league, and, moreover, one that just started up, that changes that dynamic significantly..

Just because someone commenting might misunderstand the context doesn’t necessarily make it a fair deal.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

So TL is the chosen one now and that's the rub? I don't have a problem with this trade, none whatsoever. This one should be fun to revisit after the season is over. Chase has a chance to be the #1 WR this year, but DK is no slouch. Pencil him in for a top 10. Chubb has the potential to be the #1 overall RB, likely a better chance than Chase getting #1 WR and Hunt may not be NFL relevant this season, let alone fantasy relevant. Geno vs TL? On hype, TL is the easy winner but Geno flat performed last season and their offense got better.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So TL is the chosen one now and that's the rub?

Hello, strawman, my old friend.

The “rub” has more New wants to it than that.
1. It’s
2. The Chubb/Geno side is significantly
3. Ja’Marr Chase is a top two wide receiver, not incidentally.

I can’t really say how I would handle this as a commish, because as a commishes, I would never abuse a new member of a league like this

Probably not the towable, but certainly sketchy. And a terrible way to start a league.

 

[brewer]

Are there guard rails in place to keep owners in the league. I.E., you have to pay X number of years up front? If not, this guy might just try to win this year and get out(especially since everyone is trying to fleece him now).

 

[Zow]

2) If you have anyone on this thread say "I'm not sure who got the better end of this deal" then it is not collusion.Many trades that people have made serious hay about have ended up benefitting the owner who supposedly got screwed.

There’s a caveat to that, though… Some have opined that it’s not that bad of a deal, if it’s a short term approach, or redraft league.

Because it is a dynasty league, and, moreover, one that just started up, that changes that dynamic significantly..

Just because someone commenting might misunderstand the context doesn’t necessarily make it a fair deal.

Also, I don't know how to be more clear here that nobody suspects collusion.

This is more so about the overarching philosophical question of whether this trade significantly strikes at the competitive balance of the league and, if so, since it concerns the commissioner, how to address it.

 

[Zow]

Are there guard rails in place to keep owners in the league. I.E., you have to pay X number of years up front? If not, this guy might just try to win this year and get out(especially since everyone is trying to fleece him now).

We agreed to have everybody pay for the first two years. Everybody did (so obviously he did).

I actually talked to the guy this past hour because I wound up insulting him in a leaguewide post I made on the league's messageboard. He appears to be a nice guy who just is clueless and doesn't understand how to value players in a dynasty superflex. After I explained what I consider to be some pretty basic math, he claims he'll learn from it. So, while I appreciate his sentiment and feel somewhat bit for indirectly insulting the guy, it just means that a savvy owner (who happens to be the commissioner) just had the clear best roster fall into his lap.

Issue now is whether the commissioner has some moral obligation to fix this. Another owner is going to ask the commissioner to consider giving the other owner his next year's first rounder to somewhat balance out the trade.

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

The people crying about this trade need a reality check. Preseason ranks don't matter. No one can predict the future. I still don't see a problem with this trade, dynasty or otherwise. Stocks go up, stocks go down. Either side of this trade could be the winner over the next few years. Geno is a huge risk, but his talent has never been in question. It's very much possible his DUI prior to last season finally opened his eyes. I guess we'll see, but it's pretty arrogant for anyone in here to act like they can predict the final outcome here. It's not egregious by any means and TBH it's close enough I likely wouldn't pull the trigger if involved, on either side.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

(who happens to be the commissioner) just had the clear best roster fall into his lap.

I think you’re making way too much of this.

Things change quickly in the NFL and for this season, at least, it’s very possible that Chubb, Geno and DK outperform Chase, Lawrence and Hunt considerably.

Geno at 31 isn’t all that old for a QB, Chubb has 2-3 years left and DK isn’t that far behind Chase.

This was a very bad dynasty trade but it’s not league altering. I’ve seen far worse trades go through. It’s not like Chase and Lawrence were traded for magic beans.

 

[brewer]

The complaints are more based upon the fact that 48 hours after an auction, without any injuries or other changes one team gave 1/3 of their team equity to another owner. If they really wanted Chubb, DK and Geno, they could have bought them at auction for much less than it took them to buy Chase and Lawrence.... 2 days ago.

 

[Zow]

The complaints are more based upon the fact that 48 hours after an auction, without any injuries or other changes one team gave 1/3 of their team equity to another owner. If they really wanted Chubb, DK and Geno, they could have bought them at auction for much less than it took them to buy Chase and Lawrence.... 2 days ago.

This is well said.

ETA: And also explains why, if I didn't know the commish as well as I do, I would have immediately thought collusion.

 

[Zow]

(who happens to be the commissioner) just had the clear best roster fall into his lap.

I think you’re making way too much of this.

Things change quickly in the NFL and for this season, at least, it’s very possible that Chubb, Geno and DK outperform Chase, Lawrence and Hunt considerably.

Geno at 31 isn’t all that old for a QB, Chubb has 2-3 years left and DK isn’t that far behind Chase.

This was a very bad dynasty trade but it’s not league altering. I’ve seen far worse trades go through. It’s not like Chase and Lawrence were traded for magic beans.

Perhaps. I've most certainly spent way too much time on this.

I asked for a leaguewide vote on instilling a trade review process and it lost already. I've also made nice with both owners. I think it still sucks, but apart from another owner (who is equally annoyed) asking the commissioner to toss in a first rounder to somewhat balance the trade it's probably over with now.

 

[need2know]

(who happens to be the commissioner) just had the clear best roster fall into his lap.

I think you’re making way too much of this.

Things change quickly in the NFL and for this season, at least, it’s very possible that Chubb, Geno and DK outperform Chase, Lawrence and Hunt considerably.

Geno at 31 isn’t all that old for a QB, Chubb has 2-3 years left and DK isn’t that far behind Chase.

This was a very bad dynasty trade but it’s not league altering. I’ve seen far worse trades go through. It’s not like Chase and Lawrence were traded for magic beans.

Perhaps. I've most certainly spent way too much time on this.

I asked for a leaguewide vote on instilling a trade review process and it lost already. I've also made nice with both owners. I think it still sucks, but apart from another owner (who is equally annoyed) asking the commissioner to toss in a first rounder to somewhat balance the trade it's probably over with now.

You have done what you can. It's shady for sure though

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

I'll just add one more thing. Sometimes drafts, and even more so auctions, don't go according to plan. There are times when I'm finished that I'm very happy with my team and don't even pick up a player before the start of the season. There are others where I'm immediately looking for a trade partner to fill holes on my roster or adjust to my liking, literally minutes after the auction. In those cases, there have been times where I've overpaid for what I want/need. Others where I was lucky to underpay, but to suggest the $$$ paid in the auction should all of a sudden become the be all end all of player trade values is absurd. **** happens, and that **** is typically unplanned.

 

[Lehigh98]

Geno is a huge risk, but his talent has never been in question.

NEVER?

 

[Chaka]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

Read my post again.

I’ve only done this once or twice, and *only* for new members who are n00bs to FF & IDP.

Not as a commish, as a friend. Because FF & IDP can be difficult.

It is relevant to the topic.

It has nothing to do with me being “too involved” as a commish. It has everything to do with me being a good friend, and fostering community. It is the opposite of what this slimeball commish did

It’s likely part of why we’ve had just 3 spots turn over in 25+ years, too.

Your judgement is noted.

"slimeball"? It feels like you are taking this one a bit seriously. @Zow doesn't seem as passionate about this as you.

You okay man? Wanna talk on PM? No joke, I'm here if you want to chat.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

Read my post again.

I’ve only done this once or twice, and *only* for new members who are n00bs to FF & IDP.

Not as a commish, as a friend. Because FF & IDP can be difficult.

It is relevant to the topic.

It has nothing to do with me being “too involved” as a commish. It has everything to do with me being a good friend, and fostering community. It is the opposite of what this slimeball commish did

It’s likely part of why we’ve had just 3 spots turn over in 25+ years, too.

Your judgement is noted.

"slimeball"? It feels like you are taking this one a bit seriously. @Zow doesn't seem as passionate about this as you.

You okay man? Wanna talk on PM? No joke, I'm here if you want to chat.

The way it was framed, the commissioner recruited him, his longtime friend, only to completely rape him in a trade right out of the gate.

To me, that is a slimeball move.

Perhaps you are more generous in your estimation of the transactions that took place. Hey, no judgment. I just see it as a very underhanded thing to do, as though the commissioner orchestrated it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Geno is a huge risk, but his talent has never been in question.

NEVER?

It was never in question before because he was never relevant before.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

The complaints are more based upon the fact that 48 hours after an auction, without any injuries or other changes one team gave 1/3 of their team equity to another owner. If they really wanted Chubb, DK and Geno, they could have bought them at auction for much less than it took them to buy Chase and Lawrence.... 2 days ago.

This is basically what some have said up thread. The context makes a huge difference..

 

[Jacob's Ladder]

Geno is a huge risk, but his talent has never been in question.

NEVER?

Hyperbole, yes, but talent never questioned by me. Cannon of an arm, good size, mobile, 4.59 40, great combine, sees the field well, accurate, could make every throw required of an NFL QB and absolutely lit up the stat sheet in college. He graded out as a 1st rounder by many. Many saw him going top 10. For a hot minute people thought he might go #1. That said, something was off from the jump. He had obvious first round talent but the Jets ending up getting him in round 2. Teams saw something they didn't like. Maybe in interviews? Something else? Who knows.

Now if we're talking about his ability for that talent to translate into performance? That very much came into question from the draft forward. He was almost out of the league more than once. He made terrible decisions and by all accounts refused to put in the time necessary to be a winner in the league. Immaturity and laziness reigned supreme.

Yet here we are. Geno just had the best season of his career. Does he regress? Did the Seahawks catch lightning in a bottle for a year? Did something click? Does Geno "get it" now? Is he putting in the time in the film room and with his receivers? Who knows, this season is very important for how Geno will be remembered. He's still only 32 despite being around the league forever. He has 3-5 good years left if he can actually put it all together. We'll see. I was impressed with how he handled himself last year and I guess I'll leave it at that.

 

[Chaka]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

Read my post again.

I’ve only done this once or twice, and *only* for new members who are n00bs to FF & IDP.

Not as a commish, as a friend. Because FF & IDP can be difficult.

It is relevant to the topic.

It has nothing to do with me being “too involved” as a commish. It has everything to do with me being a good friend, and fostering community. It is the opposite of what this slimeball commish did

It’s likely part of why we’ve had just 3 spots turn over in 25+ years, too.

Your judgement is noted.

"slimeball"? It feels like you are taking this one a bit seriously. @Zow doesn't seem as passionate about this as you.

You okay man? Wanna talk on PM? No joke, I'm here if you want to chat.

The way it was framed, the commissioner recruited him, his longtime friend, only to completely rape him in a trade right out of the gate.

To me, that is a slimeball move.

Perhaps you are more generous in your estimation of the transactions that took place. Hey, no judgment. I just see it as a very underhanded thing to do, as though the commissioner orchestrated it.

It's a marginally bad trade for a team that wants to win now. It's not the Camp David Accords.

Are you getting enough fiber in your diet?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Yet here we are. Geno just had the best season of his career. Does he regress? Did

Depends on their schedule.

Looking at 2022 Smith was pretty mediocre against good defenses and much better against bad ones.

But that said, it’s almost irrelevant to look at Geno in a vacuum rather than in the larger context of this deal.

I would love to hear what the person who got the Geno/Chubb side of this trade was thinking when making this deal.

I’d also love to hear what that person thinks of it after the fact. Whether they’re happy with it or are having 2nd thoughts.

I can only judge the deal from what I know, and I agree with those who say it’s not a veto-able deal. And obviously it’s defensible - almost any deal can be defended with enough benefit of the doubt.

But in my opinion (for whatever that’s worth) the TLaw/Chase side got much younger & landed 2 cornerstone players for aging, lesser assets. And since it’s a brand new league & the commish taking advantage of their “friend”, it definitely doesn’t sit well with me.

That’s my $.02

Anyone is welcome to their own opinion about this deal. It just feels icky to me.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

Read my post again.

I’ve only done this once or twice, and *only* for new members who are n00bs to FF & IDP.

Not as a commish, as a friend. Because FF & IDP can be difficult.

It is relevant to the topic.

It has nothing to do with me being “too involved” as a commish. It has everything to do with me being a good friend, and fostering community. It is the opposite of what this slimeball commish did

It’s likely part of why we’ve had just 3 spots turn over in 25+ years, too.

Your judgement is noted.

"slimeball"? It feels like you are taking this one a bit seriously. @Zow doesn't seem as passionate about this as you.

You okay man? Wanna talk on PM? No joke, I'm here if you want to chat.

The way it was framed, the commissioner recruited him, his longtime friend, only to completely rape him in a trade right out of the gate.

To me, that is a slimeball move.

Perhaps you are more generous in your estimation of the transactions that took place. Hey, no judgment. I just see it as a very underhanded thing to do, as though the commissioner orchestrated it.

It's a marginally bad trade for a team that wants to win now. It's not the Camp David Accords.

I believe it’s a substantially bad trade for a team that got taken advantage of.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I’ll just have to think significantly less of your FF acumen for expressing this estimation of that deal.

Are you getting enough fiber in your diet?

Pooped 2x today already, thanks for asking. Any other personal questions or do you want to stick to FF?

 

[rockaction]

I think that now Woz is being a bit of a ninny and should drop it. Woz, you agreed to play in the league under its constitution. That should end any and all talk right there. It's not reviewable and you don't suspect collusion. Basically, you're mad because you joined a league with a ****ty player. That's on you. Don't make enemies because it was a bad trade. Suck it up.

 

[Chaka]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

I feel like the precedent was set by the commish fleecing his friend.

As I said above - not illegal, just deeply unethical.

As a 25+ year commish, I’ve brought friends into my league. And when I’ve done so with inexperienced people I’ve sent them resources, guides to IDP, trading, etc. Advised them to watch some YouTube videos, etc,

Because FF isn’t easy, and IDP is a bit more advanced still.

That said, if they then go on to make terrible deals, I’ve let them know personally (like while playing golf, hanging out etc) that it was a bad deal for them and why.

Fortunately my league isn’t dynasty, so lessons learned the hard way don’t carry the long-term league-changing ramifications like this topic’s example.

It’s just so shady that the commish fleeced his soon to be ex friend like this. That’s the icky part.

Not veto-worthy, but if I were in the league
1. I’d also hit up that owner for bad deals as you said
2. I’d probably let the commish know privately that I was disappointed to see it.

You sound like a commish who is too involved. Owners have the right to make bad decisions and don't need your protection from themselves. Leagues are comprised of adults who also don't need your protection. It's not up to you to volunteer advice on why you think a move is wrong. Answer when asked otherwise why involve yourself? "For the good of the league" is the mantra of dictators, why not just take over everyone's roster and run the league yourself? Suss out shenanigans, make sure everyone pays and gets paid and don't do much else.

AARWTFDIK?

Read my post again.

I’ve only done this once or twice, and *only* for new members who are n00bs to FF & IDP.

Not as a commish, as a friend. Because FF & IDP can be difficult.

It is relevant to the topic.

It has nothing to do with me being “too involved” as a commish. It has everything to do with me being a good friend, and fostering community. It is the opposite of what this slimeball commish did

It’s likely part of why we’ve had just 3 spots turn over in 25+ years, too.

Your judgement is noted.

"slimeball"? It feels like you are taking this one a bit seriously. @Zow doesn't seem as passionate about this as you.

You okay man? Wanna talk on PM? No joke, I'm here if you want to chat.

The way it was framed, the commissioner recruited him, his longtime friend, only to completely rape him in a trade right out of the gate.

To me, that is a slimeball move.

Perhaps you are more generous in your estimation of the transactions that took place. Hey, no judgment. I just see it as a very underhanded thing to do, as though the commissioner orchestrated it.

It's a marginally bad trade for a team that wants to win now. It's not the Camp David Accords.

I believe it’s a substantially bad trade for a team that got taken advantage of.

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I’ll just have to think significantly less of your FF acumen for expressing this estimation of that deal.

Are you getting enough fiber in your diet?

Pooped 2x today already, thanks for asking. Any other personal questions or do you want to stick to FF?

I'm honestly not busting.your chops. Hand to God.

You seem angry in here and I was hoping a little humor might help lighten your mood.

I apologize for nothing.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm honestly not busting.your chops. Hand to God.

You seem angry in here and I was hoping a little humor might help lighten your mood.

I apologize for nothing.

I’m not abgry at all. Not in the slightest.

I already said when I posted that it was “‘making me mad” that I was joking around.

I’m just commenting on what I see as a crappy thing for a commish to do to a friend who’s a n00b at FF.

Otherwise I’m in a fabulous mood.

Please stop psychoanalyzing me through a FF topic and we’ll likely have less confusion on your behalf.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I think that now Woz is being a bit of a ninny and should drop it. Woz, you agreed to play in the league under its constitution. That should end any and all talk right there. It's not reviewable and you don't suspect collusion. Basically, you're mad because you joined a league with a ****ty player. That's on you. Don't make enemies because it was a bad trade. Suck it up.

Unfortunately I agree with this as well.

 

[rockaction]

Unfortunately I agree with this as well.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

I'm talking about me in case anybody is confused. Self-effacing and all.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Unfortunately I agree with this as well.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

I'm talking about me in case anybody is confused. Self-effacing and all.

I mean, it’s spot on.

Yeah, it’s a crap situation. Yeah, the deal is a little janky. Yeah, the commish pretty obviously F’d his friend.

But it’s not so imbalanced as to suspect collusion, and it doesn’t appear to have violated any rules.

That all said, I’d love to see both teams full rosters, post trade.
@Zow - can you post those?

 

[Chaka]

I'm honestly not busting.your chops. Hand to God.

You seem angry in here and I was hoping a little humor might help lighten your mood.

I apologize for nothing.

I’m not abgry at all. Not in the slightest.

I already said when I posted that it was “‘making me mad” that I was joking around.

I’m just commenting on what I see as a crappy thing for a commish to do to a friend who’s a n00b at FF.

Otherwise I’m in a fabulous mood.

Please stop psychoanalyzing me through a FF topic and we’ll likely have less confusion on your behalf.

~Highly defensive. Denialist tendencies. Mild God complex. Possible corprophilia.

Note: ask HSG's neighbors if any of their pets have gone missing recently.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

~Highly defensive. Denialist tendencies. Mild God complex. Possible corprophilia.

Note: ask HSG's neighbors if any of their pets have gone missing recently.

Cmon.

 

[Deamon]

I'm honestly not busting.your chops. Hand to God.

You seem angry in here and I was hoping a little humor might help lighten your mood.

I apologize for nothing.

I’m not abgry at all. Not in the slightest.

I already said when I posted that it was “‘making me mad” that I was joking around.

I’m just commenting on what I see as a crappy thing for a commish to do to a friend who’s a n00b at FF.

Otherwise I’m in a fabulous mood.

Please stop psychoanalyzing me through a FF topic and we’ll likely have less confusion on your behalf.

~Highly defensive. Denialist tendencies. Mild God complex.

 

[MTskibum]

Yeah, it’s a crap situation. Yeah, the deal is a little janky. Yeah, the commish pretty obviously F’d his friend.

But it’s not so imbalanced as to suspect collusion, and it doesn’t appear to have violated any rules.

That all said, I’d love to see both teams full rosters, post trade.

I agree. I am in a newish 3 year old dynasty league and only myself, the commish, and one other guy had dynasty experience.

The commish went on a trading spree to ripoff his friends left and right.

I have told him he will need to stop or else people will start leaving.

 

[Gally]

As a Commish I feel it is the responsibility of the Commish to check the integrity of the league and that includes helping newbies understand strategies, values, etc if you become aware of a knowledge gap. In this case with the Commish involved I would have at least discussed the offer with the newbie owner to discuss values and the why's and why not's of making this trade and what the newbie owner was trying to accomplish. If after discussing the pros and cons the newbie is on their own and can still make the deal. If that happened then there is no issue with the Commish or the trade. All this to make sure the guy was going in with eyes wide open.

I would especially do this if the newbie was a friend that I brought into the league. I believe part of brining in new guys to a league it is the commish's job to make sure they understand some of the nuances and perceptions of the league but in the end it is their team to make moves they want to make. I wouldn't be talking them out of the deal just highlighting the perceptions, value possibilities, and repercussions.

The deal itself is not great but if everyone is sure it's not collusion it's just a lesson to learn from the new guy.

As just an owner in the league there is no way I would propose a trade committee because those just suck. Now you are bringing in lots of opportunities for people to manipulate trades by vetoing because it helps other teams and not theirs. The worst aspect of trade committees by far.

 

[sushinsky4tsar]

One guy in the league has a fundamental misunderstanding of how the scoring and game works in general.

Rinse him. Offer him every conceivable trade in your favour you can think of and take advantage of him. Someone else will (as they already have) and you'll be at a disadvantage if you don't.

The league is already tainted in my eyes so you might as well be ruthless and try and cash in on it.

I'll just point out that this isn't generally how I like to play the game, but a marker has been laid down already that would force my hand personally.

In my experience you only get one or two shots at the inexperienced newbie. He will take a bunch of flack from this deal and either go into a shell and refuse to trade anymore or swing the pendulum the other way and attempt to make the value back by offering trades way in his favor.

Yep. I've offered him 4 deals that he declined. He's on to the fact that I'm trying to fleece him now. I probably pushed him into a shell but, frankly, that's likely best for the league.

If I'm being completely honest I'm just jealous that another owner who I considered one of my primary competition for the league (and who I thought had an okay but flawed draft), just got all his team's flaws fixed.

This is my go-to play for these situations. It's more effective if you can get a half-dozen equally outraged leaguemates to join in offering equally garbage trades. That should get the point across. The newb wronged the league with their incompetence. Having the newb cornered by an angry mob, curled into a fetal position and looking into joining a yahoo public fantasy hockey league is the only appropriate recourse the league has. Welcome to dynasty fantasy football, rook.

Also, don't apologize for insulting the trade on the league message board. Trade shaming is what those are for. Ideally, it would be a league group chat instead of a message board.

As for pushing for a new trade review system, that's a discussion that probably needed to take place when the league was forming. Politely asking the commish to hand over his future 1st round pick? These are a bit silly for my taste.

Kudos to the league on a pre-paid season two. That's the way to do it.

 

[Zow]

Well, here's hopefully the last chapter in this saga. Another owner (not me, honestly) asked the commissioner to resolve this by giving the other owner his next year's first and the commissioner agreed. He made a nice leaguewide post stating that while he stands by collusion being the proper metric and he generally wants to allow owners to act as they choose without review, he recognizes the trade is lopsided and will include his first. For the other owner's benefit, he explained how this makes sense for a dynasty trade where it makes some sense to trade young blue chippers for "win now" guys and some future draft capital. The league pretty much unanimously agreed that it was a nice compromise and we can all move on.

The vote as to whether to grant my request for an immediate change to the trade review to put in some review process lost 5-7.