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Sure. If Luck has paper mache knees and plays about 2 games a season for the next five years.
Had Oden been able to stay healthy, he'd have been a really good player. Allstar caliber for sure but he'd have never been Kevin Durant. I definitely see a few similarities in the situation. Luck is considered more can't miss because of his size...as was Oden. Durant and RGIII were both more productive and passed the eyeball test.I see Luck as a pretty safe pick and could easily be a perennial pro-bowler but I see RGIII with a transcendent ability. Luck probably has a higher floor but Griffin's ceiling looks pretty awesome.
Yeah, it'd be fun to see RGIII "pull a Durant" here, but I can't see how any sort of Oden-Luck comparison can be made.Also, the "talented, but ultimately too fragile to make it" center is fairly common in the NBA. It happens all too often and that wasn't something that would come as a complete shock.
I think people really undersell Luck's physical abilities. If he wanted to be, he could come into the league as a top 5 running QB - he was just used as more a pocket passer.I think both QBs will be stars and both have "awesome" ceilings.
Nobody is underselling Luck's athletic ability. It's that he's being compared to an olympic caliber athlete in Griffin.
Yes, those obvious paper mache knees that everyone saw through Oden's televised HS and collegiate career
I'm not quite understanding the comparison. Are you saying one of RG3 or Luck will suffer massive injuries that will derail their career? That's the only thing I can think of, otherwise the comparison doesn't make much sense to me.
Having a few injuries here and there is nothing compared to what he has suffered since being drafted. Every GM in the NBA would have made the same pick: The once every 5-10 year Center.Passing on Oden for Durant is like passing on Luck for another position. You don't pass up the franchise QB and you don't pass up the franchise center.The Blazers were simply unlucky. Again, every GM in the NBA would have done the same thing.In fact, the Celtics would have never traded for Garnett and Allen and would have instead built around the young center. They would have passed up a very good chance at a ring (they got) to make Oden their future. Then they got screwed by the lottery and it was the best thing that could have happened to them.
What was your point then? For all we know it could have been a Hakeem Olajuwon (drafted over) Michael Jordan situation with those two players if Oden stayed healthy. Sure Houston missed out on Jordan - but I'm sure they weren't all that disappointed with how things played out with the Dream.I really don't undertand why RGIII's ceiling is so much higher than Luck's, just because Griffin can run better. Personally I think both players have tremendously high ceilings and Washington wouldn't be looking to trade back with St. Louis if the Colts ended up taking Griffin.
Houston only got rings only when Jordan left the league.
I think in most cases you have a valid point regarding once in a decade center. But I said it at the time, and I'd say it again today even if Oden wasn't out of the league, give me the uber talented superstar that plays with fire and passion who carries his team through his play and leadership (Durant) any day of the week over the emotionless "can't miss" center that's elite a rebounding and blocking shots. When you're talking guys with Oden and Durant's talent level, I want someone who's a killer on the court. Durant was that guy, Oden was not. So as not to derail this thread, I believe that both Luck and Griffin are as can't miss in all areas as you'll find for quarterback prospects. They both seem to have the intangibles, leadership, arm strength, accuracy, intelligence, and athletecism necessary to thrive.'Concept Coop said:
No one said they were depressed, but you can bet they wonder what could have been had they only taken (arguably) the best player in NBA history.
I think we're splitting hairs here. I mean if you were guaranteed multiple rings and a HOF caliber player, you're probably okay with the world even if you missed out on a better talent.Still don't understand the original post about Durant/Odin, though, unless there is some huge injury concern.
That's the exact reason that Ryan Leaf's "upside" was higher than Peyton's. Better arm, better measurables.It's really too bad that Peyton's limited upside held him back so much.
Sorry, I thought we were talking about upside and potential here. So Luck is Peyton and RGIII is darker version of Ryan Leaf, huh? I didn't realize you had a crystal ball. You got todays powerball numbers too?
I don't think we need to worry about de-railing the thread, no offense to anyone. I see where you are coming from. It is easy to say that you take the guy with fire like Durant, Kobe, Wade, Rose, but, most advanced stats show that a guy like Dwight Howard is more valuable to his team. The ability to be a very good defensive team, based on ONE player is huge. And Oden was a good deal bigger than Dwight. In a league with one domninant center, I'll take him over anybody not named LeBron.Oden could have been that. I just think it is easy to say this in hindsite. And Durant - beign close to 7 feet tall - is a physical freak himself. Oden's and Yao's - even More so than Dwight, who isn't as big - come along once a decade. It's a shame they couldn't stay healthy or the NBA would be very different right now.
LOL, might want to re-read the thread you're posting in, guy.The whole point of this thread is that the OP was bringing up an example of a guy who was the "safe" pick being outshined by a guy who was the riskier but high upside pick.I was merely providing a (MUCH more similar) example of the opposite.Besides, this notion about "upside" in regards to Luck vs. RG3 is stupid. Luck's upside is him being one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time. It's not like the Colts are drafting him because they think they'll get solid Joe Flacco numbers out of him.
You quoted me, guy. I assumed that reacting to my post. Were you not?Also, you bring up a guy in Ryan Leaf who didn't fail because of his upside. He failed because he had the maturity level of a 14 year old. He didn't fail because he had bigger arm than Peyton.Oh, and now Luck has the upside of the GREATEST QB EVAH!!!??? Based on what? Mel Kiper's draft grade?
I don't think either one has many issues in throwing the ball.
Nonsense, he would have been a failure even without the attitude. He simply wasn't that good.
I disagree with this. Leaf was physically a terrific QB; mentally he was a washout. IMO of course.
I remember Oden looked at least a decade older than his real age as a rookie. Heck he looked old as a high school senior before starting at Ohio State. To me that was a red flag, in addition to the fact that he was much more mechanical than fluid in his movements. Durant was the exact opposite. I have no idea how to evaluate NBA talent, but it seemed clear to me at the time that Durant was the better athlete with a lower injury risk. I don't think that's the case with Luck or RGIII. Both seem like great athletes with elite talent.'JAA said:
I agree that his head was the problem, but I don't think it was the immaturity. It takes a certain kind of mental makeup to be an NFL QB and I don't think he knew how to handle the pressure. His big blowup with the reporter came after the 1 for 15 passing game for 4 yards. IMO, even if he had the maturity not to get mad at reporters it still wouldn't have made his a good QB.
Oden timed better than Durant at most agility drills. He had a higher vert and a faster sprint time. Greg was very fluid for a big man. Again, every GM would have made the same pick - this isn't Ryan Leaf situation. They guy had some horrible luck and some terrible knees.
lol i think we watch a different durant. not sayin hes a choker, but hes far from a kobe or kyrie winner assasin. hes like 3-24 on shots down by 0-3 with 5s left the last 3 yrs.http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=single&year_id=2010&is_playoffs=&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=0&time_remain_seconds=5&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=-3&margin_max=0&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg
That's pretty funny on the night we watch KD drop a 3 at 4 seconds to give OKC the lead (only to see Kevin Love return the favor) and then hit a ridiculous fall-away 3 with 10 seconds left in the first OT to tie it...
kyrie, as in kyrie irving is an assassin?
