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Mad Men on AMC (1 Viewer)

'Apple Juice said:
'zamboni said:
'jamny said:
'zamboni said:
I love the way Don abuses the younger subordinate guys in the office. Like to Ginsberg when he was rehearsing the pitch: “I just wanted to hear the tone of your voice so I can make sure it's not as annoying as it is in every day life.”
Or when he said at the bar "Everything I say from here on just attach an 'or else' to it" :lmao:
One can certainly see more head-butting between Don and Ginsberg as they develop the Ginsberg character.Don seems to see the creative spark in Ginsberg that he himself may not possess as much anymore.
I think the back-and-forth between Don and Ginsberg has a LOT of potential. Kind of surprised by the griping so far. Ginsberg's impassioned speech to sway the Heinz guys was exactly like Don when he was on his game, and even though it aggravated him I think Don recognized it. That's why Ginsberg told Ken Don wasn't even close to firing him. He probably feels like Don respects what he did, and he might be right, even if Don isn't that interested in his work lately.
Obviously we're going to have to see if Ginsberg is actually a genius of just a nut-job. Maybe both.
 
Extremely disappointed in this season so far.
I like it just fine. I think maybe they set the bar too high for you.
That's true.
Such a long layoff did raise expectations IMO. Fair or not the first three episodes have been ho-hum.Don facing a jealous newlywed wife and Betty's 48-hour health scare not exactly the angst of season's past.Emasculating Roger to such an extent has been pretty silly as well.
 
Extremely disappointed in this season so far.
I like it just fine. I think maybe they set the bar too high for you.
That's true.
Such a long layoff did raise expectations IMO. Fair or not the first three episodes have been ho-hum.Don facing a jealous newlywed wife and Betty's 48-hour health scare not exactly the angst of season's past.

Emasculating Roger to such an extent has been pretty silly as well.
Good point. He's too good a character for this treatment.
 
Extremely disappointed in this season so far.
I like it just fine. I think maybe they set the bar too high for you.
That's true.
Such a long layoff did raise expectations IMO. Fair or not the first three episodes have been ho-hum.Don facing a jealous newlywed wife and Betty's 48-hour health scare not exactly the angst of season's past.

Emasculating Roger to such an extent has been pretty silly as well.
Good point. He's too good a character for this treatment.
I can see this but I also think it is illustrating that Roger is getting older and not as valuable as he once was. And unlike Cooper he really isn't a good businessman.
 
Two comments about Pete

- I had no idea that chick was in high school when I first saw her. I felt like :homer:

- knowing this I was surprised he didn't go for the call girls after she tried the 'first time' line

 
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Also... Lots of mentions of **** Wittman in this episode both direct and implied

I count four

- don/**** growing up in the country

- Don correcting the last name of the mass murderer

- the conversation in the cab with Pete about second chances (although he turned it into a second wife thing smoothly)

- speaking to the madame about growing up in a place "like this"

 
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interesting episode. Pete wants so desperately to be "the man" and yet he keeps getting shown up by all the other men around him, including some d-bag jock in his drivers ed class. This guy is about to crack.

And other than the cheesy not-even-close-but-supposed-to-look-like-a-punch-in-the-face schtick, that was a pretty real depiction of a fist fight, which never happens on tv.

 
Great episode. Best of the season so far. The drip sound to open and close the show was great.
totally agree. One thing I digged is seeing Roger worthwhile and confident. :thumbdown: to Hanson aka Mr.cockblock.
 
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Loved the episode, but I'm growing tired of the Draper as Fonzie shtick. Surprised he didn't just tap the sink with his fist like a jukebox.

Last episode they referred to him as handsome dseveral times and this episode the women call him Superman and in the whorehouse...Roger "even in here, he's doing better than us."

That said, where I think this may be going is that Meghan is going to step out on him. Don is finally monogamous, but now the tables will turn.

 
:lmao:

And more Pete Campbell. That's what the show had been missing.
Yup. Pete always brings the goods. This quote from the actor who plays Pete makes me love him even more:
Slate: What’s the most difficult aspect of being on Mad Men?

Kartheiser: Having to explain the more amazing points of Mad Men. I’m just an actor. I’m not nearly as smart as the writers of this show. I’m only speaking for myself—I think some of the other actors get it more than me—but I’ll run into people with brilliant minds who start asking me questions about the show, and I’m like, “Look, whatever you’ve come up with is definitely better than anything I’ve read into it.” I can tell you what Matt Weiner says. I can tell you what Jon Hamm thinks. But I’m just a puppet. I love my character, and Matt writes great #### for us, and he makes sure we understand it. We work hard on it, and I’m proud of that, but the hardest part is that it’s a lot of really highbrow stuff, and sometimes I’m just a lowbrow dude.
 
We haven't seen Roger that happy in years.
"I know cooler heads should prevail here, but is anybody else excited to see this?" (I'm sure I didn't get the quote exactly right but whatever)
I think it was "I know cooler heads should prevail, but does anybody else want to see how this plays out?"Slattery did a great job directing. All the awkwardness was sufficiently awkward in the dinners the Cosgrove/Peggy exchange, and of course the fight scene was brilliant. He has a great eye. Also, did anybody catch who cowrote the episode?
 
We haven't seen Roger that happy in years.
Could it be because John Slattery directed last nights episode? A few other thoughts on some things:*A few weeks ago my niece asked me what character was I most interested in on the show. When I said Pete Campbell she seemed stunned. I tried to explain to her that he's the most interesting character because he does not know how to be. It's uncomfortable watching him sometimes because you just know he's kind of creepy but not really mean, and you always get the idea he's about to say or do something uncomfortable or odd. Like in last nights episode he was just a little overly joyous at Don's presence and uptight during the dinner. *I think the show is doing a great job of aging Draper and Roger and I don't mean in their appearance. Early in the show I was starting to tire of this Don Draper can't do no wrong thing. I felt last season they started to humanize him more and continue to do so this year. A startling difference I see between this Don and the old Don is his wife is in control of him now. Work wise he does not seem to possess the same fire or thought. In short he's still got "it" but he seems like he's gently slipping. Not the same magical can't do wrong Don.
 
love Joan's line to Lane about how everybody in this office has wanted to do that.

I think we all assumed it meant kissing Joan..

 
We haven't seen Roger that happy in years.
Could it be because John Slattery directed last nights episode? A few other thoughts on some things:*A few weeks ago my niece asked me what character was I most interested in on the show. When I said Pete Campbell she seemed stunned. I tried to explain to her that he's the most interesting character because he does not know how to be. It's uncomfortable watching him sometimes because you just know he's kind of creepy but not really mean, and you always get the idea he's about to say or do something uncomfortable or odd. Like in last nights episode he was just a little overly joyous at Don's presence and uptight during the dinner. *I think the show is doing a great job of aging Draper and Roger and I don't mean in their appearance. Early in the show I was starting to tire of this Don Draper can't do no wrong thing. I felt last season they started to humanize him more and continue to do so this year. A startling difference I see between this Don and the old Don is his wife is in control of him now. Work wise he does not seem to possess the same fire or thought. In short he's still got "it" but he seems like he's gently slipping. Not the same magical can't do wrong Don.
I agree and I can't decide if Don will continue to slip at work or his creative side will kick in again and he will be the killer at work.And was he the one who was doodling the hangaman's noose?
 
We haven't seen Roger that happy in years.
Could it be because John Slattery directed last nights episode? A few other thoughts on some things:*A few weeks ago my niece asked me what character was I most interested in on the show. When I said Pete Campbell she seemed stunned. I tried to explain to her that he's the most interesting character because he does not know how to be. It's uncomfortable watching him sometimes because you just know he's kind of creepy but not really mean, and you always get the idea he's about to say or do something uncomfortable or odd. Like in last nights episode he was just a little overly joyous at Don's presence and uptight during the dinner. *I think the show is doing a great job of aging Draper and Roger and I don't mean in their appearance. Early in the show I was starting to tire of this Don Draper can't do no wrong thing. I felt last season they started to humanize him more and continue to do so this year. A startling difference I see between this Don and the old Don is his wife is in control of him now. Work wise he does not seem to possess the same fire or thought. In short he's still got "it" but he seems like he's gently slipping. Not the same magical can't do wrong Don.
I agree and I can't decide if Don will continue to slip at work or his creative side will kick in again and he will be the killer at work.And was he the one who was doodling the hangaman's noose?
Is he slipping at work or are they just not showing his work?
 
"Signal 30" brings up a subject we haven't heard about in quite some time, as it turns out Ken still has the fiction-writing bug that made Pete and Paul so jealous back in season one. His tales have taken a turn away from the autobiographical and into the science-fiction realm, including a story that his wife Cynthia describes at Pete and Trudy's dinner party as involving a bridge between two planets that falls apart when its robot caretaker removes a bolt, killing everyone on it.

Wreckage is a big part of the hour, which takes its title from the horrific driving safety film that Pete is required to watch as part of his driver's ed class, and most of the carnage comes out of failed attempts by Pete, Lane and Ken to be more than they are by building bridges from one world to another.

Ken — the one man at Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce who's always viewed the job as merely that, and not the sum total of his existence — continues his writing on the side, but is forced to scrap all his old stories, and his old pen name, when Cynthia dishes about it to Pete, and Pete in turn rats him out to Roger. (Roger's been dealing with professional disappointment all season, and as "a fellow unappreciated author," he takes his frustrations out on one of the few people left at the firm lower on the totem pole than himself.) Still, Ken gets off relatively easy: he seemed uneasy about the science fiction stories even as he was describing them to Peggy, and he already has a new nom de plume, and story, by that evening.

Lane and Pete don't end the work day on such an upbeat note, unfortunately. Lane, who's already struggling to bridge his love of America with his wife Rebecca's longing for queen and country, decides to take a turns as an account man. But he doesn't have the gift for it in the way that Ken can write stories about robots and aliens. He fumbles his way through a dinner date with friend and prospective client Edwin and has the account taken away by Pete. And when Roger turning the evening into a trip to an upscale local whorehouse blows up on everyone(*), Lane's temper in turn brings out an ugly side of Pete. Like Roger with Ken, Pete's looking for someone he can beat up on, and Lane — socially awkward Lane, who understandably fears irrelevance at a business that already employs Joan Holloway — makes an easy target.

(*) "Caught with chewing gum on his pubis" is just a funny phrase. It just is. Sorry, Lane.

But where Roger's threat to fight Pete back in the premiere was just an idle one, Lane absolutely means it, and his training in the rules of the Marquess of Queensbury turns out to outweigh whatever advantage Pete's youth might provide him. He gives Pete the beating that Pete's deserved, off and on, for much of the life of the series(**), but it's not tremendously satisfying for him because he's still been called out for his marginal role in the agency, and his poor job handling the account in the first place. And then Lane nearly makes things much worse for himself by trying to build a bridge between his work relationship with Joan and a hypothetical romantic one. He's only saved by the tremendous affection and respect Joan has for him, which leads her to open his office door but not walk out it, and to change the subject back to everyone in the office's desire to deck Pete.

(**) And the beating I imagine Lane wishes he had given his pimp cane-wielding father.

And if nothing else, Lane can take satisfaction in having won the fight. Pete's left with nothing, not just because he got beat up by a middle-aged fop, but because he's consumed with a feeling of want without ever really knowing what it is he wants.

Long ago and far away, Pete wanted to be Don Draper. Well, now he is. If anything, he's got things better than Don did back in season 1, because Trudy is a better wife, mother to his kids and all-around human being than Betty could ever be for Don. (Even Don likes Trudy enormously, and Don likes almost nobody.) And absolutely none of it satisfies him. Even now that Trudy seems to have finally gotten herself composed, Pete's scoping out teenage Jenny at his driver's ed class. And when that plan fails after a more age-appropriate suitor steps in his way, Pete's more than happy to go to the whorehouse, where he doesn't want the hooker to act like either a housewife or a virginal teen, but simply as someone who will treat him like the king he so desperately wants to be.

And it turns out that Pete wants to be a king who's loved, not feared. He's nakedly desperate for Don's approval at the dinner party — and then resentful, as always, when Don proves his manliness by re-fixing the faucet after Pete botched it — angry at Don's disapproval on the cab ride home from the whorehouse, and then simply lonely and confused in the elevator with Don, where he confesses, "This is an office. We're supposed to be friends!"(***)

(***) That's a very Michael Scott line, and while Pete and Michael aren't exactly cross-decade counterparts for one another, there's a sense with both that they were never properly taught how human beings interact with one another, and have been faking their way through it as adults. They just take their cues from different sources, with Pete copying more successful men, while Michael borrows everything from pop culture.

And the funny/sad thing is that Pete is so desperately trying to become a Don Draper who doesn't quite exist at the moment. This Don, amazingly, is happy. He is at peace with himself and his place in the world. He's probably not as driven at work as he should be, and he's still a misanthrope in general, but Megan (for now, at least) has turned out to be everything he dreamed she would be when he impulsively proposed to her. She's the partner he wants, at work and at home. She helped him build a bridge between his Don Draper and **** Whitman sides, and he's doing okay.

But just because Don's doing so much better than Pete and Lane at the moment doesn't mean his newlywed bliss will last. We've seen Roger and Jane, and now Pete and Trudy. As Ken's story reminds us, all it can take is the removal of one bolt for a bridge between worlds to collapse.

Some other thoughts:

* John Slattery took his third turn behind the camera after two directorial stints last season, and he continues to have particularly strong command of the comedic moments, once again getting big laughs out of Elisabeth Moss reaction shots (and, in this case, Christina Hendricks). And, as with Jon Hamm's episode a few weeks ago, there were some transitions that called attention to themselves: the rhythmic tapping of Jenny's flip-flop leading into the rhythmic dripping of the leaky kitchen faucet, a shot of Ken exiting Peggy's office cutting into a nearly-identical shot of Lane welcome Pete into his, and the dissolve of Pete's face in the office to his face at the driver's ed class. Not sure if those choices are Slattery's, the editor's, Matt Weiner's, or some combination.

* Weiner, by the way, gets shared credit for this script with Frank Pierson, the Oscar-winning screenwriter of "Dog Day Afternoon" (and nominated for "Cool Hand Luke" and "Cat Ballou," both close to the period when this season takes place).

* I quite liked the atmosphere at the Campbell dinner party as it raged on and everyone became plausibly but not uncomfortably drunk. Everyone was just sweaty and a little too candid, with Megan unable to stop herself from excitedly blurting out "Cynthia!" when Mrs. Cosgrove's name finally came up in conversation.

* Also loved everyone's reactions to the crying yet adorable baby. Not sure Jon Hamm's ever smiled that broadly on the show before.

* "Mad Men" thankfully doesn't do a whole lot of temporal irony humor, where something a character says is funny only in the context of what we know in the present, but it can work on occasion, like Pete bragging about his Wilt Chamberlain-sized hi-fi.

* Trudy's endless story about the origin of the Cos Cob name at least provides some value to Ken, who borrows the name Coe for a character in his new story.

* Where most of last season's episodes took place roughly a month apart, time has slowed down a bit the last few weeks. Betty and the kids were celebrating the 4th of July two episodes ago, the Richard Speck killings that haunted everyone in last week's show took place on July 14, and and early in this hour, Lane watches the 1966 World Cup final, which was played on July 30.

* That also means that Joan went back to work pretty quickly after she kicked Greg to the curb, given that her presence at the office is already just a fact of life, rather than deserving of comment.

* Interesting, but not surprising, that Ken and Peggy have a pact to make sure the other has a job at wherever they leap to. Those two have always had a good professional bond, going back to their work together on the radio commercial in the season 1 finale.

* Another sign of how relatively at ease Don is at this point in his life: not only does he briefly discuss his life on the farm in front of work colleagues, but he tells the madam that he grew up in a whorehouse. (Though I'm not sure on the chronology there, since his mother died in childbirth and he was quickly taken to Archie and Abigail's farm. Was he speaking metaphorically, or was there some point in his childhood where they sent the whore-son back to the whorehouse?)

* A sign that I've caught "Suburgatory" fever: I added several exclamation points to the name "Ryan Shay" in my notes when I recognized actor Parker Young as "Handsome" Hanson, who blocked any shot Pete had at young Jenny.
 
At the end of the meeting, I like how Joan asked everyone at the table if they had any new business.

Roger? "Nope."

Pete? "No."

Don? "Nope."

Mr. Cooper???

:lmao: :lmao:

Why not just ask the lamp if it had any new business.

 
I just watched last week's 'Mystery Date'....and read the posts here about it.

Was it me, or was everyone all of sudden drinking beer? Ginsburg....Greg.....Is that some change in the times we're supposed to note? I'm not sure I recall ever seeing a beer before.

 
Wow, I thought that was a great episode. Pete was totally and painfully emasculated throughout. First, by Don fixing the faucet (preceded by his painfully uncool gushing to Don about what a big deal it was to have him in his house) then by "Handsome" with the teeny-bopper in the drivers' ed class (which was an emasculating place for him to be from the start) and finally with Lane giving him the beatdown.

Loved it when they were talking about the shooting at the U. of Texas and someone had the guy's name wrong and Don helpfully chimes in: "Whitman."

I also liked the interplay between Don and the Madame, and how they quickly came to a mutual respect as two savvy veterans.

 
I just watched last week's 'Mystery Date'....and read the posts here about it.Was it me, or was everyone all of sudden drinking beer? Ginsburg....Greg.....Is that some change in the times we're supposed to note? I'm not sure I recall ever seeing a beer before.
Betty Draper served Heineken at her dinner party back in Season 1.
 
best episode of the series IMO.

It was all there. The humor, the tragedy, the secrets they all keep, the facades and all of the subtext that simmers beneath the surface of all the interactions. All brilliantly presented and relateable.

 
I just watched last week's 'Mystery Date'....and read the posts here about it.Was it me, or was everyone all of sudden drinking beer? Ginsburg....Greg.....Is that some change in the times we're supposed to note? I'm not sure I recall ever seeing a beer before.
Betty Draper served Heineken at her dinner party back in Season 1.
Thats right...although wasn't that because they just signed them as a client, or were trying to send a certain message to a guest?It seemed to be in our faces this ep....I forgot about Peggy and Dawn also drinking it. 3 scenes where it was front and center....and it was the younger cast members.
 
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I just watched last week's 'Mystery Date'....and read the posts here about it.Was it me, or was everyone all of sudden drinking beer? Ginsburg....Greg.....Is that some change in the times we're supposed to note? I'm not sure I recall ever seeing a beer before.
Betty Draper served Heineken at her dinner party back in Season 1.
Thats right...although wasn't that because they just signed them as a client, or were trying to send a certain message to a guest?
Sort of. Sterling Cooper ran a test to see if dumb suburban housewives would start serving Heineken if it was marketed as a "premium" beer and had a separate display in the grocery store. Betty unknowingly proved the merit of the strategy by buying and serving it at her party.
 

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