Mad Men on AMC (2 Viewers)

[Raider Nation]

tl;dr

My link

 

[Marvin]

tl;dr

My link

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

Pete's whole thing about voting seemed weird to me. The only votes that should count percentage wise are Sterling, Cooper and Draper. There's no way they would have gave him full-voting rights.

If my 25/25/25/15/10 guess is right they'd need Roger and Bert and anybody to get it approved, so even if Lane had voted it down the three of them may have been enough to approve itThat somebody else in the future could easily be Joan by the way.

I'm rewatching and when Don leaves the room Campbell says they're "75% of the company." So pre-Joan deal Don owned 25%.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Great analysis here...maybe better than Sepi..http://unitcrit.blogspot.com/2012/05/mad-world-on-kritik-mad-men-season-511.html

The term “the other woman” is almost necessarily pejorative. But this episode of Mad Men takes as its project a redefinition of its titular expression. The other woman is not the mistress or even the car that the man cannot have (as the Jaguar ad campaign suggests) but the woman who cannot be bought, the woman who resists the very logic of exchange, whom no man can have. This is Peggy at the end of the episode. The fundamental idea of the episode is that it is only by adopting this position of the other woman in the way that Peggy does that one can challenge the universalized prostitution that capitalism demands of its subjects, especially women.The episode “The Other Woman” explores the link between prostitution and capitalism from beginning to end. We prostitute ourselves or employ others as prostitutes, the show suggests, out of social or economic exigency, and capitalism incessantly produces this exigency. Though prostitution obviously predates capitalism, the relationship between the two is very close. It was Marx who first saw capitalism as a “general prostitution of the laborer” for its insistence that this economic system forces workers not simply to sell what they produce but themselves and their time. In fact, this parallel with prostitution distinguishes capitalism from a barter economy in which one can trade products rather than one’s labor.Because “The Other Woman” makes the universalization of capitalism fully explicit, it is perhaps the most feminist episode of the series thus far. We see several moments where capitalism involves the transformation of women into sexual commodities. Even when Megan seems to strike out on her own as an actor to follow her dream, she finds herself forced to show her body to three men while trying to get a part in a play and also has to endure Don’s refusal to accept that the demands of her fledgling career might disrupt the life together that he imagines. For her part, Peggy cannot work on the firm’s most important prospective account because Jaguar does not want a “girl” on the project, and the men at the agency capitulate completely to this implicit demand.Most significantly, however, the episode’s central event concerns Pete’s communication of a request made by Herb Rennet (a member of the Jaguar selection committee who will decide if the firm wins the contract with the automaker) for a night of sex with Joan. Pete begins by telling Joan about the possibility and then subsequently informs the partners, and each time he recounts it, he portrays a willingness to go along with the scheme that the other party (whether Joan or the partners) did not evince. When Herb initially proposes the idea, Pete, in contrast to Ken Cosgrove (who clings to an ethic not wholly determined by capital), accepts it as a possibility because he believes that success is attainable. He believes, in other words, in the promise of capitalism-as-prostitution, which is why he is willing to prostitute Joan for the sake of an account.The great strength of capitalism as a system stems from its capacity for the always-disappointed promise of inclusion. Inclusion seems to be embodied in the very next commodity, the commodity that one doesn’t yet have but sees from afar. The newest commodity appeals most strongly because it appears to hold the key to an always-elusive sense of inclusion. This is the foundation of the Jaguar advertising campaign that Don pitches to the company’s selection board. Buying a Jaguar, the campaign claims, enables the male consumer to have the unattainable object. As the unattainable object, the Jaguar is standing in for a woman that a man views as just out of reach. The Jaguar will serve as the mistress/thing of beauty that the man desires but can never own, and Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce will play the role of the pimp facilitating this relationship.Even though the episode establishes a clear parallel between Don’s advertising campaign and Joan’s night of sex with Herb Rennet by crosscutting between the two activities, Don is himself not wholly reducible to the role of pimp. “The Other Woman” confirms the viewer’s long-developed sense that Don, despite his often horrible behavior, has an ethical core that surpasses that of the other characters. His only equivalent is Peggy, his protégé not as an advertiser but as an ethical being. What unites the two is their shared resistance to the allure of inclusion, their willingness to abandon everything that would provide them a secure and established identity. They are free to act ethically because they are not trying to find a way to belong, and they understand themselves as having nothing to lose. For them, no potential gain represents the possibility of genuine inclusion as it does for others. Of course, capitalism often capitalizes on their sense of exclusion: they are skilled advertisers because they see the lures of inclusion from a genuinely external perspective, without falling prey to its grips. Thus, they are not simply good capitalist subjects in the fashion that, say, Pete Campbell is. They are ambitious in wanting to work the system but also understand the impossibility of obtaining the object that would provide complete inclusion. This renders them appealing characters and gives them both an ethical aura.This is evident in Don’s act during the partners’ meeting early in the episode. When Pete relates the request for a night with Joan made by Herb Rennet, Don rejects the possibility categorically and walks out of the meeting. The other partners, despite their statements concerning ethical qualms, all remain in the meeting and consider the prostitution of their friend and colleague as thinkable. (Lane, perhaps, assuages his guilt while also attending to his own bottom line by encouraging Joan to insist on a 5% partnership in lieu of a one-time outlay. Although the idea appeals to her and enables her to insist on voice in decision-making, the root of it is Lane’s own dire financial situation which has driven him to extending the firm’s credit and forging a check.) Later, Don’s exceptional status further stands out. When he learns that Pete and the others have presented an offer to Joan, he exclaims, “I don’t work like this” and tries to dissuade Joan from going through with the nefarious rendezvous — but tries too late. If we think of the term “the other woman” in the usual sense, Joan qualifies. She is not Herb Rennet’s wife and yet she sleeps with him. (In the last episode, “Christmas Waltz,” Joan even played at being Don’s wife for a Jaguar test drive.) But in agreeing to sleep with Rennet, Joan does what most of us would do in a similar situation. Her rapist husband has just filed for divorce after abandoning her for the sake of his own version of male inclusion and with uncertain means for supporting herself and her child, the decision to prostitute herself just once for so large a gain makes good economic sense.Not only that, but the show illustrates that Joan doesn’t really have a choice in this situation. All of the forces at the agency and within the social structure depicted by the show push Joan toward the act of prostituting herself. Don, the one figure who presents the opportunity for resistance, is ineffectual and arrives too late. He comes to Joan to express his absolute opposition to the transformation of the ad agency into a sexual procurement agency. The depiction of his visit to Joan reveals his lack of efficacy and Joan’s absence of true options. When we first see him arrive and speak to Joan, it seems as if she has not yet gone to see Herb, but later the show repeats Don’s visit to make it clear that it occurs after the act. Even Don cannot prevent the debasement that the firm perpetuates and it is a debasement that the show reveals to be universal within the capitalist world.If most of us don’t have sex with prospective clients in order to provide for our children, we nonetheless make a constant series of little accommodations in order to keep our jobs and create the illusion of a secure future. Joan’s act simply reveals the truth of these little accommodations. But “The Other Woman” shows that Joan’s act is not the true act of the other woman. Instead, the other woman reveals herself at the episode’s conclusion in a traumatic manner.Often on Mad Men we witness Don commit a seemingly self-destructive act that liberates him from his symbolic attachments. Most famously, perhaps, in Season 4’s “Blowing Smoke” he writes an advertisement attacking cigarettes after already losing Lucky Strike, a brand of cigarettes, as the firm’s most important client. Peggy is also capable of such acts. Her most dramatic moment occurs at the end of “The Other Woman,” as she tells Don that she is leaving the firm. She refuses any counteroffer, no matter how much money it might involve and tells Don that she is only doing what he himself would do. She makes clear that the capacity for this type of absolute break is something that they both share as an ethical position. This episode finally forces the trauma of the ethic exemplified by both Don and Peggy on the show’s spectators. Previously, we have simply watched Don or Peggy abandon their attachments within the diegetic world of the series. That is to say, the breaks have occurred within the content of the show and not in the form. But with this episode, for the first time a certain kind of formal break takes place: Peggy, the only person with whom Don has a genuine connection, leaves him and the firm. Though she may continue on the show in some capacity, she will no longer function as a foundation for Don. While we might have cheered Betty’s decision to leave Don, we cannot experience Peggy’s departure as anything but a traumatic cut (in large part because the audience, like Don, relies on her as an ethical center at the agency). And yet, this is the cost of the ethical position she represents.One might object that Peggy is not so much making an absolute break as advancing her career. But this would be to misread the nature of her act. The episode ends not with Peggy newly installed at the new agency but with her departure from Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce. Though Peggy leaves for another ad agency and a larger salary, she specifically leaves Don and the office. This becomes evident when she rejects the very possibility of a counteroffer. Peggy’s career move serves as an alibi for her departure. Though Peggy has no knowledge about Joan’s involvement in the Jaguar deal, it is no coincidence that these two story lines happen in the same episode. We have no idea what Peggy’s reaction to the partners’ request or to Joan’s acceptance of the deal might be, but we do know that the partners’ pimping out of Joan further solidifies the agency’s descent into an unrestrained capitalism-as-prostitution with no space for an act outside of its insistence on unbridled corruption. The great idea of feminism — and what renders it potentially antithetical to the logic of capitalism — is that women cannot be possessed, that they cannot serve as commodities despite the efforts of capital. This is precisely the position that Peggy occupies at the end of the episode as she waits for the elevator. She smiles with the satisfaction of a break from the secure world of Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce. She smiles out of her refusal to have a price. As she smiles, the audio track blares out The Kinks’ “You Really Got Me,” a song suggesting a reversal of everything we have just seen throughout the episode. That is to say, capitalism, in large part through the efforts of the advertising agency, promises the man that he can have the woman qua impossible object - here figured as the Jaguar - but at the end of the episode, the woman remains outside the man’s reach. In fact, she really has him and keeps him up at night, the song claims, and she does so because she accepts her position of exclusion and refuses the logic of exchange that provides a path to inclusion.The burden of this position falls on us as spectators. If we enjoy Peggy’s smile, we enjoy the possibility of our own exclusion and our own escape from the system of universalized prostitution in which we are mired.

 

[Tiger Fan]

perhaps the resurgence of the old characters spread throughout this season was done purposely to set up Peggy's leaving....she'll likely be back in some episodes, but not "full time"

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

perhaps the resurgence of the old characters spread throughout this season was done purposely to set up Peggy's leaving....she'll likely be back in some episodes, but not "full time"

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm envisioning. Maybe she'll get some screen time if her new firm is competing with SCDP for a big client or something. Or maybe she'll try to poach Ginsburg. Or she'll show up in some other capacity. But I think her time as a central figure on the show is over.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.

The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.

She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

 

[Apple Jack]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Of course it's doable, but the point is that it's a natural progression for her character to get out from under Don and move on.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Of course it's doable, but the point is that it's a natural progression for her character to get out from under Don and move on.

True, but I think she can move on from Don and still be a central figure in the show. Heck, it took forever to get rid of the last woman that divorced Don. If they'll keep worthless Betty around so long, there's no way they nix Peggy's character because she's in a different office down the street.

 

[Apple Juice]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

 

[Apple Jack]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

 

[badmojo1006]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

Maybe money is a motive. Not that Elizabeth Moss wants more, but remember, Weiner was told by AMC to cut down the staff. Maybe Moss is the regular that will be cut. It would be very sad and diminish the show as far as I am concerned.

 

[Apple Jack]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

Maybe money is a motive. Not that Elizabeth Moss wants more, but remember, Weiner was told by AMC to cut down the staff. Maybe Moss is the regular that will be cut. It would be very sad and diminish the show as far as I am concerned.

I'm talking about Peggy, not Elizabeth Moss.

 

[jwb]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.

The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.

She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

I'm not 100% convinced she's done as a regular. Lots of people thought someone dies this season - if that happens, maybe Don sees her at the funeral and makes his pitch. Then you have a whole off-season to forget the details and just move forward (like how SCDP morphed into a busy agency). But that's about the only way I see her coming back and being a regular character.To everyone who thinks she can still be central at another agency... well, how? To have her play a big part means showing the dynamics of another agency - that's not going to happen. Peggy matters because of her dealings with characters we know (Don, Joan, etc). "Peggy stressed at another agency" where we don't know the characters simply won't work. I don't even think she gets "Betty" level appearances. Betty still matters because of Don and the kids.

Peggy will either be back at SCDP at the very end of the season, or she's gone.

 

[jamny]

I think she's gone as a central character. She's moved on. She's not going to accept an offer and be back within a few weeks. Maybe next season if they jump ahead a year or two but I doubt we'll see too much of her this season anymore.

 

[Tiger Fan]

I think she's gone as a central character. She's moved on. She's not going to accept an offer and be back within a few weeks. Maybe next season if they jump ahead a year or two but I doubt we'll see too much of her this season anymore.

I think a plausible storyline would be her "stealing business" or winning bids with her copy over time and Don wondering why he ever let her go

 

[The Noid]

None. None beers necessary.

She has that Natalie Merchant/Lisa Loeb librarian vibe about her.I am bewildered that Fred Armisen pulled her--if only for a brief time. He is like the Gary Kroger/Brad Hall of SNL.

You're glossing over the true king of SNL: Jason Sudekis. Check out his run since divorcing some 30 Rock writer a few years ago (and he even has a Mad Men connection):List

And then add Olivia Wilde, his current girlfriend.

 

[The Noid]

Pete's whole thing about voting seemed weird to me. The only votes that should count percentage wise are Sterling, Cooper and Draper. There's no way they would have gave him full-voting rights.

They did. And Joan asked for them, too, with her 5%.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.

The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.

She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

I'm not 100% convinced she's done as a regular. Lots of people thought someone dies this season - if that happens, maybe Don sees her at the funeral and makes his pitch. Then you have a whole off-season to forget the details and just move forward (like how SCDP morphed into a busy agency). But that's about the only way I see her coming back and being a regular character.To everyone who thinks she can still be central at another agency... well, how? To have her play a big part means showing the dynamics of another agency - that's not going to happen. Peggy matters because of her dealings with characters we know (Don, Joan, etc). "Peggy stressed at another agency" where we don't know the characters simply won't work. I don't even think she gets "Betty" level appearances. Betty still matters because of Don and the kids.

Peggy will either be back at SCDP at the very end of the season, or she's gone.

I think they can certainly pull off introducing another character or 2 at the new agency. You say Peggy matters because of her dealings with other characters we know. I don't completely agree with that, but it certainly makes sense that characters at the new firm will matter because of their dealings with Peggy.Few characters could do it, maybe Don's the only other one, but I think it can be done with Peggy.

Viewers legitimately care about her and will accept new characters/storylines to continue along the journey with her character.

 

[pollardsvision]

And who knows, maybe she becomes a regular at Pete's new apartment in the city, when he gets it.

 

[jwb]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.

The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.

She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

I'm not 100% convinced she's done as a regular. Lots of people thought someone dies this season - if that happens, maybe Don sees her at the funeral and makes his pitch. Then you have a whole off-season to forget the details and just move forward (like how SCDP morphed into a busy agency). But that's about the only way I see her coming back and being a regular character.To everyone who thinks she can still be central at another agency... well, how? To have her play a big part means showing the dynamics of another agency - that's not going to happen. Peggy matters because of her dealings with characters we know (Don, Joan, etc). "Peggy stressed at another agency" where we don't know the characters simply won't work. I don't even think she gets "Betty" level appearances. Betty still matters because of Don and the kids.

Peggy will either be back at SCDP at the very end of the season, or she's gone.

I think they can certainly pull off introducing another character or 2 at the new agency. You say Peggy matters because of her dealings with other characters we know. I don't completely agree with that, but it certainly makes sense that characters at the new firm will matter because of their dealings with Peggy.Few characters could do it, maybe Don's the only other one, but I think it can be done with Peggy.

Viewers legitimately care about her and will accept new characters/storylines to continue along the journey with her character.

But I think we might have just come to the end of that. She goes to a new agency with a nice title and a fat salary, and eventually she becomes one of the first female "Don Drapers" in the industry.I just don't see much upside to following her to a new agency, save to keep a beloved character around for those who can't stand to see her go. And this show isn't going to do that. Betty was/is kept around because ex-wives are never fully out of the picture.

If Peggy is not at SCDP, then her arc has clearly been tied with a nice, clean bow (her little, confident smile punctuated that). We'll get a quick bar cameo or two, but that's about it (unless they write her back into the agency somehow.)

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Have Weiner or Moss done any interviews about her level of involvement going forward?

I would guess she's going to pop up a bit more than Paul, or the strung out artist that was Don's sidepiece in s1, but pretty infrequently.

Very intriguing that this wasn't the last episode, and there are two left. RN can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all of the major fireworks in the Sopranos went down in the penultimate episode each season, and the last ep. was cleanup/fallout.

 

[pollardsvision]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.

The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.

She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

I'm not 100% convinced she's done as a regular. Lots of people thought someone dies this season - if that happens, maybe Don sees her at the funeral and makes his pitch. Then you have a whole off-season to forget the details and just move forward (like how SCDP morphed into a busy agency). But that's about the only way I see her coming back and being a regular character.To everyone who thinks she can still be central at another agency... well, how? To have her play a big part means showing the dynamics of another agency - that's not going to happen. Peggy matters because of her dealings with characters we know (Don, Joan, etc). "Peggy stressed at another agency" where we don't know the characters simply won't work. I don't even think she gets "Betty" level appearances. Betty still matters because of Don and the kids.

Peggy will either be back at SCDP at the very end of the season, or she's gone.

I think they can certainly pull off introducing another character or 2 at the new agency. You say Peggy matters because of her dealings with other characters we know. I don't completely agree with that, but it certainly makes sense that characters at the new firm will matter because of their dealings with Peggy.Few characters could do it, maybe Don's the only other one, but I think it can be done with Peggy.

Viewers legitimately care about her and will accept new characters/storylines to continue along the journey with her character.

But I think we might have just come to the end of that. She goes to a new agency with a nice title and a fat salary, and eventually she becomes one of the first female "Don Drapers" in the industry.I just don't see much upside to following her to a new agency, save to keep a beloved character around for those who can't stand to see her go. And this show isn't going to do that. Betty was/is kept around because ex-wives are never fully out of the picture.

If Peggy is not at SCDP, then her arc has clearly been tied with a nice, clean bow (her little, confident smile punctuated that). We'll get a quick bar cameo or two, but that's about it (unless they write her back into the agency somehow.)

Clearly, we see it differently. I'm sure I'm biased by what I want them to do, but I do think keeping Peggy involved is what they should and will do.

We'll find out soon enough.

 

[The Noid]

Less Peggy means more screen time to bring back Sal and Duck!

 

[badmojo1006]

Less Peggy means more screen time to bring back Sal and Duck!

Would be curious to see Sal again, but I think Duck is past his usefulness

 

[chet]

Joan and Peter do not have the same votes as the big 3. Joan has 5% of the vote, and the big three presumably would have 25/105% each.

 

[jwb]

I don't think there's any chance in hell that Peggy's time as a central figure is over.

The show isn't about SCDP. It's about the characters and she is the 2nd most important. By a huge margin.

She's important enough and deep enough that writing meaningful, interesting storylines for her, outside of SCDP, is entirely doable.

Over the course of the show she has been the 2nd most important, but she hasn't been the 2nd most focused-on for a while. Don is the center of the show's universe, and this season Megan has received far more attention than any secondary character. I agree that Peggy is central to the essence of the show--she's my second favorite character next to Don--but Mad Men doesn't adhere to any rules, other than the importance of Don Draper. My gut says that Peggy is done as a regular, but she'll be vital in the last few episodes of the series and to creating the conclusion Weiner wants.

Definitely done as a regular. Maybe brought back sparingly and maybe at the end. A lot of people leave and regret it, but I think that's usually when the motive is money. Money is not the motive here.

I'm not 100% convinced she's done as a regular. Lots of people thought someone dies this season - if that happens, maybe Don sees her at the funeral and makes his pitch. Then you have a whole off-season to forget the details and just move forward (like how SCDP morphed into a busy agency). But that's about the only way I see her coming back and being a regular character.To everyone who thinks she can still be central at another agency... well, how? To have her play a big part means showing the dynamics of another agency - that's not going to happen. Peggy matters because of her dealings with characters we know (Don, Joan, etc). "Peggy stressed at another agency" where we don't know the characters simply won't work. I don't even think she gets "Betty" level appearances. Betty still matters because of Don and the kids.

Peggy will either be back at SCDP at the very end of the season, or she's gone.

I think they can certainly pull off introducing another character or 2 at the new agency. You say Peggy matters because of her dealings with other characters we know. I don't completely agree with that, but it certainly makes sense that characters at the new firm will matter because of their dealings with Peggy.Few characters could do it, maybe Don's the only other one, but I think it can be done with Peggy.

Viewers legitimately care about her and will accept new characters/storylines to continue along the journey with her character.

But I think we might have just come to the end of that. She goes to a new agency with a nice title and a fat salary, and eventually she becomes one of the first female "Don Drapers" in the industry.I just don't see much upside to following her to a new agency, save to keep a beloved character around for those who can't stand to see her go. And this show isn't going to do that. Betty was/is kept around because ex-wives are never fully out of the picture.

If Peggy is not at SCDP, then her arc has clearly been tied with a nice, clean bow (her little, confident smile punctuated that). We'll get a quick bar cameo or two, but that's about it (unless they write her back into the agency somehow.)

Clearly, we see it differently. I'm sure I'm biased by what I want them to do, but I do think keeping Peggy involved is what they should and will do.

We'll find out soon enough.

I really liked her character, too, and I somewhat hope that what I mentioned a few posts back happens (that Don sees her at some traumatic event and makes his pitch). So I do understand where you are coming from. It (seemingly) won't quite be the same w/o Peggy. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for them not to follow her arc anymore (if she truly is gone.)Like you said, we'll soon see

 

[Tiger Fan]

Joan and Peter do not have the same votes as the big 3. Joan has 5% of the vote, and the big three presumably would have 25/105% each.

This is of course, assuming that the board mirrors the equity %. If you took Pete's statement literally, it would mean that each partner has an equal vote on the board.

 

[gump]

Regarding Rogers's approval of Joan's offer...I think, despite his fading value, that he has made it clear by all the cash he's dished out how much SCDP means to him. It still bears his fathers name, and he obviously cares more about its future than about the mother of his latest child.

Can't see Roger and Joan reuniting now.

 

[The Noid]

Joan and Peter do not have the same votes as the big 3. Joan has 5% of the vote, and the big three presumably would have 25/105% each.

This is of course, assuming that the board mirrors the equity %. If you took Pete's statement literally, it would mean that each partner has an equal vote on the board.

We've seen Pete vote as an equal and Joan asked for "a voting share with a 5% stake" in the company.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

We've seen Pete vote as an equal

I don't think we've ever seen a voting combination that would allow us to determine the relative values of the votes.

 

[Charlie Frown]

Lane adds nothing to the show. I hope he gets popped for embezzlement.

He seems to be no longer essential to the company or the show. He's a goner. But I like his character.

How many 6-packs of Schlitz would it take for you guys to hammer Peggy?

Really?

WHOA!

 

[pollardsvision]

Regarding Rogers's approval of Joan's offer...I think, despite his fading value, that he has made it clear by all the cash he's dished out how much SCDP means to him. It still bears his fathers name, and he obviously cares more about its future than about the mother of his latest child.

Can't see Roger and Joan reuniting now.

I don't disagree, but I think part of Roger's approval was due to Pete making it sound like Joan was already interested.It seemed, to me, like it was a combination of being upset that Joan didn't reject the plan immediately and an actual respect of Joan (in a, "she's a big girl, she can make her own decision" kind of way).

I think that's the ethical aspect of this whole ordeal that's gone undiscussed.

This scenario wasn't completely evil.

A woman in a terrible marriage just became independently wealthy and secured the future of her and her child, with or without her terrible husband.

If the men that were supposedly on the moral high ground had led this, instead of the unscrupulous Pete, Joan would've never known about this opportunity.

I think it would've been worse to have made this decision for Joan, as everyone, other than Pete, would have preferred.

Joan got a seat at the table.

Hell, Roger got bent over by Lucky Strike for years to keep his seat at the table.

 

[gump]

Regarding Rogers's approval of Joan's offer...I think, despite his fading value, that he has made it clear by all the cash he's dished out how much SCDP means to him. It still bears his fathers name, and he obviously cares more about its future than about the mother of his latest child.

Can't see Roger and Joan reuniting now.

I don't disagree, but I think part of Roger's approval was due to Pete making it sound like Joan was already interested.It seemed, to me, like it was a combination of being upset that Joan didn't reject the plan immediately and an actual respect of Joan (in a, "she's a big girl, she can make her own decision" kind of way).

I think that's the ethical aspect of this whole ordeal that's gone undiscussed.

That's a good point. Roger did blurt out "and she agreed?" to Pete. But he could easily have still sided with Don. I guess it was the smart thing to do in his mind...for everyone.Joan immediately assumed it was Rogers idea...can't see her coming around on him, especially with stability.

 

[The Noid]

We've seen Pete vote as an equal

I don't think we've ever seen a voting combination that would allow us to determine the relative values of the votes.

They voted 4-0 to pimp out Joan, with Don "abstaining."

 

[Apple Jack]

Regarding Rogers's approval of Joan's offer...I think, despite his fading value, that he has made it clear by all the cash he's dished out how much SCDP means to him. It still bears his fathers name, and he obviously cares more about its future than about the mother of his latest child.

Can't see Roger and Joan reuniting now.

I don't disagree, but I think part of Roger's approval was due to Pete making it sound like Joan was already interested.It seemed, to me, like it was a combination of being upset that Joan didn't reject the plan immediately and an actual respect of Joan (in a, "she's a big girl, she can make her own decision" kind of way).

I think that's the ethical aspect of this whole ordeal that's gone undiscussed.

That's a good point. Roger did blurt out "and she agreed?" to Pete. But he could easily have still sided with Don. I guess it was the smart thing to do in his mind...for everyone.Joan immediately assumed it was Rogers idea...can't see her coming around on him, especially with stability.

She did?

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

We've seen Pete vote as an equal

I don't think we've ever seen a voting combination that would allow us to determine the relative values of the votes.

They voted 4-0 to pimp out Joan, with Don "abstaining."

Right. And Campbell said something about 75% of the firm being present so no need for a meeting. So Don seemed to own a 25% voting stake (pre-Joan), but we don't know the exact numbers for anyone else.

 

[gump]

Regarding Rogers's approval of Joan's offer...I think, despite his fading value, that he has made it clear by all the cash he's dished out how much SCDP means to him. It still bears his fathers name, and he obviously cares more about its future than about the mother of his latest child.

Can't see Roger and Joan reuniting now.

I don't disagree, but I think part of Roger's approval was due to Pete making it sound like Joan was already interested.It seemed, to me, like it was a combination of being upset that Joan didn't reject the plan immediately and an actual respect of Joan (in a, "she's a big girl, she can make her own decision" kind of way).

I think that's the ethical aspect of this whole ordeal that's gone undiscussed.

That's a good point. Roger did blurt out "and she agreed?" to Pete. But he could easily have still sided with Don. I guess it was the smart thing to do in his mind...for everyone.Joan immediately assumed it was Rogers idea...can't see her coming around on him, especially with stability.

She did?

It was actually when Lane spilled the beans on the fact that the partners discussed it and came up with a $50K offer....her first reaction was "Roger Sterling participated in this discussion?"...saying it as if it were likely his idea.

 

[identikit]

Regarding Rogers's approval of Joan's offer...I think, despite his fading value, that he has made it clear by all the cash he's dished out how much SCDP means to him. It still bears his fathers name, and he obviously cares more about its future than about the mother of his latest child.

Can't see Roger and Joan reuniting now.

I don't disagree, but I think part of Roger's approval was due to Pete making it sound like Joan was already interested.It seemed, to me, like it was a combination of being upset that Joan didn't reject the plan immediately and an actual respect of Joan (in a, "she's a big girl, she can make her own decision" kind of way).

I think that's the ethical aspect of this whole ordeal that's gone undiscussed.

That's a good point. Roger did blurt out "and she agreed?" to Pete. But he could easily have still sided with Don. I guess it was the smart thing to do in his mind...for everyone.Joan immediately assumed it was Rogers idea...can't see her coming around on him, especially with stability.

She did?

It was actually when Lane spilled the beans on the fact that the partners discussed it and came up with a $50K offer....her first reaction was "Roger Sterling participated in this discussion?"...saying it as if it were likely his idea.

Could be, but I took that as Joan wanting to believe Roger would have put a stop to the idea.

 

[Wrighteous Ray]

I took that as Joan wanting to believe Roger would have put a stop to the idea.

Me too.

 

[Apple Jack]

I took that as Joan wanting to believe Roger would have put a stop to the idea.

Me too.

X3

 

[gump]

I took that as Joan wanting to believe Roger would have put a stop to the idea.

Me too.

X3

I just watched it again...the way she says it and the body language don't say that to me....she's more sarcastic than surprised.

 

[Premier]

Should be interesting tonight. I wonder if they even touch the Peggy storyline.

 

[Raider Nation]

Lane adds nothing to the show. I hope he gets popped for embezzlement.

Close enough.

 

[Premier]

Any chance Lane goes window jumping?

 

[Raider Nation]

"I already said no. Or should I leave so you all can do whatever you want?"



NICE!

 

[Raider Nation]

Any chance Lane goes window jumping?

:fingers crossed:

 

[Christo]

Poor sad Lane.

 

[Christo]

"I already said no. Or should I leave so you all can do whatever you want?"



NICE!

 

[Raider Nation]

Poor sad Lane.

Cappy is right. There's about to be little bits of Limey all over the sidewalk. Apparently Weiner also realized that Lane's arc had hit the wall.