Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
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Make the Assistant Coach Forum Great? Ideas? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I think the sub-forum is the way to go. It's there at the top of the page, so anyone returning to the SP index will see it so that helps remove the "out of sight out of mind" problem. However, see my earlier reply as to the most important part - until the posters give enough information to form an intelligent response people won't respond.
Mavis
Footballguy
Incorrect, people respond to trade thread posts with almost no info, and that thread is active as any.
I frequent the AC forum quite a bit. I always thought it was a good place to see some questions and I try and give my thoughts periodically for questions that make sense or that I have an opinion on. I rarely go into the SP forum as it just wasn't a habit to go there. There is a double edge sword with higher traffic in a forum. It increases the posts which pushes some down that they get lost in the shuffle but if there is more traffic you get more input for the questions that stick. Not sure of the solution to that.
I like the idea of awarding points or value to contributors that give quality advice or information. Someone mentioned discounts to subscriptions for valued contributors. I think that is a good idea to get quality participation. The trick will be to come up with a system that is commensurate with providing quality advice in a fair way. For instance, rewarding the responses that give some reasoning behind the advice while detracting for the posts of "yes" with no thought behind them.
Personally I like the AC forum but I do understand some of the concerns regarding a lack of participation and the fly-by posts in season that don't give enough info that clutter up the first page. Having a standard format for common themes (trade advice, lineup advice, etc) would help improve that.
I like the idea of awarding points or value to contributors that give quality advice or information. Someone mentioned discounts to subscriptions for valued contributors. I think that is a good idea to get quality participation. The trick will be to come up with a system that is commensurate with providing quality advice in a fair way. For instance, rewarding the responses that give some reasoning behind the advice while detracting for the posts of "yes" with no thought behind them.
Personally I like the AC forum but I do understand some of the concerns regarding a lack of participation and the fly-by posts in season that don't give enough info that clutter up the first page. Having a standard format for common themes (trade advice, lineup advice, etc) would help improve that.
This one can be set up, the mod who sets it up can write NO IT ISN'T in the largest available font, and the thread can be pinned and locked.
I think in all my years reading Shark Pool "is this collusion?" threads I've seen maybe one case that actually looked close...
(Good idea over all though.)
Spike
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Some were suggesting that they wanted staffers from FBG to answer people's questions. Questions like who they should start this week and if a trade was good or not. They have a subscription based service already that is meant to help people with this already. If they were going to go out of their way to answer all of those questions in the free forums why would anyone pay for a subscription here? That's the point I was trying to make.
Spike
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Every week they have their rankings of players at each position and their projected points which help you decide who to start and can help you decide how to rate the value of a trade. This also helps you to decide on what players to drop and which players to pick up off waivers. Why should they offer that if you could just ask them what they recommend in the forums for free?
msommer
Footballguy
Gamification works in crowd co creation (which is what the AC Forum is meant to be, I think)
wakelawyer
Footballguy
Maybe it's just me but I don't see a problem here. It's a free forum and people are asking for free help. Anything they get should be considered a plus. This is especially true when the same posts appear here, on Twitter, and on several other sites. And, moreso when many of the questions could be answered -- by the FBG staff -- through purchasing a membership. The mere fact that you cut and pasted a question on several sites doesn't entitle you to meaningful analysis on all of those sites.
If those in the AC forum think that there's not enough activity, that's on them. I don't know who in particular is complaining but I'd wager that those that complain about a lack of responses likely respond to very few questions of others. There should almost be an unwritten rule that you don't post a question in the AC forum unless, and until, you answer 3 (or 5 or some other number) questions of others.
Instead of imposing the AC on the members of the Shark Pool, ask those that swim in the AC forum to solve their own "problem" and be more active.
If those in the AC forum think that there's not enough activity, that's on them. I don't know who in particular is complaining but I'd wager that those that complain about a lack of responses likely respond to very few questions of others. There should almost be an unwritten rule that you don't post a question in the AC forum unless, and until, you answer 3 (or 5 or some other number) questions of others.
Instead of imposing the AC on the members of the Shark Pool, ask those that swim in the AC forum to solve their own "problem" and be more active.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
You really think those projections etc are well thought out? some may be but we could debate that in a separate thread easily with current and no longer subscribers. Many people don't subscribe because the projections are mailed in so frequently. Gronk, (apparently, I wouldn't know, I didn't subscribe) was listed on projections/rankings last year for like 2-3 weeks after he got hurt.Hawkeye21 said:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Was just a theory of mine. I assume they don't want to give out too much of their expert advise for free in the forums and would rather they offer those services to paid subscribers. Generally that's how it's done.You really think those projections etc are well thought out? some may be but we could debate that in a separate thread easily with current and no longer subscribers. Many people don't subscribe because the projections are mailed in so frequently. Gronk, (apparently, I wouldn't know, I didn't subscribe) was listed on projections/rankings last year for like 2-3 weeks after he got hurt.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Bloom posts a (basically) WDIS thread every week. Gets to what he can. I think that is the kind of input people are looking for in the AC forum.
TBH I don't post a lot there because the people who post there... I have no idea who they are. Not to sound pompus, like I often can unfortunately (unintended), I certainly feel like my opinion means more than the people giving me advice. So why even listen to them? So many people in the SP don't go to the AC forum, and those are the people that I would trust asking for advice. Not some guy I've never seen with 8 liked posts (not to get caught up on likes, but if someone doesn't post much except to give a few half thought out words of advice on a WDIS thread so that they can get a few answers of their own... they won't have much likes).
It's not just the AC forum, it's who is in the AC forum... the advice you get is only worth what you think of the person giving the advice. And if it's someone who joined the forums that day or someone I've never heard of, I'm likely not going to go there for advice. It takes too much effort to get good information out of the OP to give a well thought out response in return. Scoring system, rosters, etc. If it's someone from the SP who I recognize, then I will probably be more patient with the process, but those people are usually posting the information I form an educated opinion.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
For straight up WDIS questions that people are looking for answers to on a free forum, just send them to fantasypros.com and they can enter as many players as they like and get the immediate outcome from 100+ "experts".
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I never trusted input from many of the posters on there. For instance, the people who say they will help in return in order to get their questions answered. I will put some thought into it and give them my opinion then they will answer my question as quickly as possible with little insight. I get nothing from that. I prefer to get opinions from people I trust and know what they're talking about.
Thanks Guys. I think we're making some headway on this. I like Andy's original idea of one AC thread here in the Shark Pool but it's not hard to see how that would become chaos quickly. But I love not having to leave the Shark Pool. The answer looks to be a subforum in the Shark Pool. You can see how that looks if you go to the IDP forum. We have an Assistant Coach Sub Forum. There are also some upvote features we may be able to work in. Stay tuned. Thanks for the help.
J
J
Dr. Dan, can you send me an email at bryant@footballguys.com and let me know exactly and specifically what you're talking about here?You really think those projections etc are well thought out? some may be but we could debate that in a separate thread easily with current and no longer subscribers. Many people don't subscribe because the projections are mailed in so frequently. Gronk, (apparently, I wouldn't know, I didn't subscribe) was listed on projections/rankings last year for like 2-3 weeks after he got hurt.
This is how I make my living and that's an extremely strong accusation. I want to make sure I fully understand the facts. We certainly have made projections where a player over or under performed what we projected. But we've never ever "mailed in" projections. Not once. When you accuse us of "frequently" doing that, that's something I need to fully understand what you're saying.
J
Mavis
Footballguy
I took the initiative and started a thread in this forum just to see how it would fair, some like it and some dont. If you could pin it, that may make it easier or start a thread of your own. A trial and error thread could never hurt to see how peopel take to it. Maybe it sticks maybe it doesnt.
Thanks. But I don't think that's what we want to do there. One thread would be chaos. I'll close it for you. Thanks for thinking on this though.
J
I'm not seeing how a subforum is any different than having it in its own forum?
When I'm reading the IDP forum, I still have to drill down to the asst. coach forum there. The idp ac threads don't show up in the main forum, nor do I reach them using the "read next post" options.
Yes, it's is own forum, but on the same page as the Shark Pool. It will still work basically like it's own forum. We're working on some infrastructure within the subforum that I think will have some better options for people asking questions. Hope to have it ready this weekend to look at. Thanks.
J
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Most of us have learned to disguise our AC questions with a thin veil.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I will say that after speaking with Joe I'm off base when it comes to these claims. I was unaware of procedures that go into the weekly projections. apologies to Joe and FBG staff.You really think those projections etc are well thought out? some may be but we could debate that in a separate thread easily with current and no longer subscribers. Many people don't subscribe because the projections are mailed in so frequently. Gronk, (apparently, I wouldn't know, I didn't subscribe) was listed on projections/rankings last year for like 2-3 weeks after he got hurt.
Thank you Dr. Dan. We have plenty of times when we project incorrectly. Guy gets more or less work than we thought or does more with the work we projected. But I've always been proud of the effort. Thank you for clarifying.
J
Hey Guys. Keith set up the Assistant Coach (AC) as a subforum here in the Shark Pool. There are some new features Invision allows with up and downvoting answers.
As Keith says in the instructions, please be as specific as you can when asking questions. Thanks for the feedback on this helping us get to here.
J
As Keith says in the instructions, please be as specific as you can when asking questions. Thanks for the feedback on this helping us get to here.
J
Loss By Design
Footballguy
It's been ages since I've posted (probably a decade+), so I apologize if I am mistaken in my assessment of the problem. It seems like the AC has always had this issue (I remember when it was first created to siphon those threads off of the shark pool).
Here are the facts:
For those seeking advice, they would look at a directory of "consultants", and they could sort by the members rated most effective in the area they need help in. So, for a WDIS question, I might post my question to Bob, because he's rated at 5 stars for WDIS. For a trade question I would ask Jim, because he's rated 4.5 stars for that (but only 3 stars for WDIS). The "consultants" could be rated automatically by the system for time-to-respond. So, if you need advice within the next hour, you probably wouldn't want to ask someone who takes 24 hours, on average, to respond.
This custom system could also require people asking questions to describe their league (and retain that information for each of their leagues so they don't need to keep repeating it). This way the "consultants" would see the question and have some context about the league the question pertains to. In theory, the "patients" could probably even just post their league URL or ID to the popular sites (Yahoo, ESPN, etc), and the system could look up their league info (scoring systems, # of teams, roster requirements, etc) automatically and present them to the "consultant".
Of course, this being the realm of competition, the "consultants" would very likely compete to be the best advice-givers. Perhaps some of them could even be invited into the realm of paid contributors on FBG.
It seems like trying to solve this issue with the one-size-fits-all tool that is the message board is very likely to end up repeating the past. Why not develop something new that is tailored to be the right solution for this problem? I think something like this would be an awesome tool for the community, and would definitely be something you wouldn't find anywhere else.
Here are the facts:
- There are definitely people in need of help (WDIS, trade x for y, etc)
- There are definitely others who enjoy helping, and who are willing and qualified (subjectively) to do so
- FBG wants a better outlet for these interactions, both to offer maximum value to the community and to not muddy the waters in the Shark Pool
For those seeking advice, they would look at a directory of "consultants", and they could sort by the members rated most effective in the area they need help in. So, for a WDIS question, I might post my question to Bob, because he's rated at 5 stars for WDIS. For a trade question I would ask Jim, because he's rated 4.5 stars for that (but only 3 stars for WDIS). The "consultants" could be rated automatically by the system for time-to-respond. So, if you need advice within the next hour, you probably wouldn't want to ask someone who takes 24 hours, on average, to respond.
This custom system could also require people asking questions to describe their league (and retain that information for each of their leagues so they don't need to keep repeating it). This way the "consultants" would see the question and have some context about the league the question pertains to. In theory, the "patients" could probably even just post their league URL or ID to the popular sites (Yahoo, ESPN, etc), and the system could look up their league info (scoring systems, # of teams, roster requirements, etc) automatically and present them to the "consultant".
Of course, this being the realm of competition, the "consultants" would very likely compete to be the best advice-givers. Perhaps some of them could even be invited into the realm of paid contributors on FBG.
It seems like trying to solve this issue with the one-size-fits-all tool that is the message board is very likely to end up repeating the past. Why not develop something new that is tailored to be the right solution for this problem? I think something like this would be an awesome tool for the community, and would definitely be something you wouldn't find anywhere else.
Thanks Loss. Do you know of any message board software with this already built in? I like the idea. But it would have to be in a system or framework already created.
J
J
Loss By Design
Footballguy
Unfortunately no, I don't (it may exist, but if it does, I'm not aware of it). It seems very likely that some out-of-the-box software already exists to do this (or something like it), but I'm not aware of any off the top of my head.
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
Really whether it is a single thread or a single forum, the issue is the same. Either having sub-forums or several threads (WDIS, trades, etc) would cut down the amount of traffic in each and so topics would scroll off the first screen more slowly.
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
Certainly this (assuming FBG cannot create a similar "mechanism" perhaps based upon a weekly, rank these players voting list that could be filled in by Shark Poolers) could be part of the solution for WDIS questions.
Phantom Knight
Footballguy
Not wanting to claim credit for things others have already posted: Most of these are ideas that have been posted by others that I concur with.
General:
My vote would be that in lieu of simply entering a new thread.... (here I go), users would NOT be able to create new threads. Instead, there would be a form to fill in. It would have required information, though not all information would be the same depending upon the nature (WDIS, Trades, etc). So either a separate template could be created for each type or a single larger, multifaceted form could be created to cover all.
An example of information that would have to be filled in:
Taking this a step further...For Trades, rather than creating a distinct thread, the current, single page trades poll could be regenerated. No Trade subforum needed! A difficulty, I believe would be allowing comments on individual trades since normally any comments would be at the bottom of the poll and it could be difficult to determine to which trade a comment was addressed. Perhaps simply noting a comment as : Trade 1, Trade 9, etc. Perhaps if subthreading is possible, each trade could have a subtopic (Trade 1, Trade 9, etc) and users could then comment as subthreads to the subthreads?
Along similar lines, if the "FantasyPros" mechanism could be implemented here based upon the weekly user votes, the user would simply be given his reply immediately. No WDIS subforum needed. Or the results could be posted in a single one-page thread with the players ranked (with votes for each) and the page would be updated every time the results of the voting was updated. But again, there would be no direct user input into this single thread. All results would be generated by data from the user voting each week.
General:
- I would break the AC into subforums: Trades, WDIS, el al. A single posting pegged in the Shark Pool could have individual links to the main AC forum and also each subforum.
- Have threaded messages. Perhaps I am blind? but I have never found the manner to view the forums here as threaded. To me threading is absolutely necessary. You post a WDIS and can see the responses as subposts under your post. That way, when collapsed, only the original request for help (and not each reply to that request) would bump other requests down the page. It would also make it easier for a person to find replies to their questions. I once left a question in a Sigmund Sunday thread. I have a slow internet connection and it became frustrating trying to see if he had answered my question when there were many pages of questions/replies after mine and I had to scan page after page (with time winding down and [in my case] a slow internet connection).
- If the technology exists...the threads for each subforum could be posted as a single thread in the Shark Pool's normal (un-pegged) posts. For example, a thread labeled AC Trades would contain ALL the threads as a single thread. This post would probably "break" the threading I mention above as essential although with some programing it would certainly be able to convert various threaded posts to be combined into a single threaded post with "sub threads".
- Up voting with (to be determined by FBG) "reward".
- "Paid" subforum that FBG staff would reply to promptly. Format to be determined by FBG (which staff members would answer which days/hours, allow users to direct questions to a particular staffer, or something else entirely). Perhaps a reward for a certain level of upvoting for a non-paid user would allow entry into the paid subforum.
- Automated closing of older threads to keep them from bubbling to the top. For example, as another suggested, perhaps after 2 weeks (more than generous), trade questions would be closed. After the Monday night game, WDIS posts would be closed.
- A weekly page of user polls that we could run down (rank the following players/week's opponent). I *think* allowing more than one player to have the same ranking would need to be allowed. So for example for 30 RBs, I might have 5 ranked at #10 and last 10 ranked together or even as DNS (do not start). This assumes dividing the players by position (easier to rank for me personally). But with so many having flex positions, ultimately it would be most helpful for most people to have RB/WR/TE in a single combined list. A decision would need to be made for PPR or .5 PPR or no PPR as it would be too much to ask readers to give replies for more than one setting.
- Tagging onto the previous item, if there was a backend application, a feature could be added to FBG similar (as mentioned by another) to that at FantasyPros. Instead of "Experts'" data (which can easily be found by going to FP, this would be based upon user replies each week. This would (or at any rate should) cut down on WDIS posts. In fact if this were able to be successfully implemented, my vote would be to completely eliminate/forbid WDIS threads altogether. A decision would need to be made how often to update the results (once per day, once per 6 hours, once per hour, etc).
- I like the idea of posting possible trades as a poll. First list pertinent league settings (more on that below) . Then
1) Player 1, Player 2, 2017 pick 1.04
2) Player 3, Player 4, 2017 pick 2.07
- To me better NOT to post which team is yours. Readers simply vote for the side they like best.
- Best case scenario! A mechanism to show all current polls (remember trades questions are closed after 2 weeks [or whatever time period FBG thinks best]) on a single page. That way, forum users could open that one page to see a large poll with each trade questions being a single question in the poll where only one of the two sides could be chosen. Each of us could then rapidly give our input on all the trades in one fell swoop (or any that we had input on). I think this would net a lot more response for users with trade questions.
My vote would be that in lieu of simply entering a new thread.... (here I go), users would NOT be able to create new threads. Instead, there would be a form to fill in. It would have required information, though not all information would be the same depending upon the nature (WDIS, Trades, etc). So either a separate template could be created for each type or a single larger, multifaceted form could be created to cover all.
An example of information that would have to be filled in:
- Type of question: Trade, WDIS, etc.
- Redraft or Dynasty (Trades only?)
- PPR (0, .5, 1) etc (Trades only?)
- Number of teams in league: __ (Trades only?)
- etc
- [Trades only] Two lists would be filled in (Team A gives, Team B gives)
- [WDIS only] Player 1, Player 2, Player 3, etc
- Question being asked
- anything else that is deemed important
Taking this a step further...For Trades, rather than creating a distinct thread, the current, single page trades poll could be regenerated. No Trade subforum needed! A difficulty, I believe would be allowing comments on individual trades since normally any comments would be at the bottom of the poll and it could be difficult to determine to which trade a comment was addressed. Perhaps simply noting a comment as : Trade 1, Trade 9, etc. Perhaps if subthreading is possible, each trade could have a subtopic (Trade 1, Trade 9, etc) and users could then comment as subthreads to the subthreads?
Along similar lines, if the "FantasyPros" mechanism could be implemented here based upon the weekly user votes, the user would simply be given his reply immediately. No WDIS subforum needed. Or the results could be posted in a single one-page thread with the players ranked (with votes for each) and the page would be updated every time the results of the voting was updated. But again, there would be no direct user input into this single thread. All results would be generated by data from the user voting each week.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
It's not at all the same. If the same guy starts a thread in the new forum and gets replies 20 in his thread, that's still just one thread on the first page holding all that content. There will still be 24 other threads on page 1, each of which can hold 20 responses of their own. If you tried doing that in one thread, 20x24=480 responses so you'd be on page 5 right off the bat, and that's assuming you can keep track of all of those different original posts.
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trader jake
Footballguy
Respect the effort, but the assistant coach forum should be allowed to exist as is or given a viking funeral. It's a fruitless endeavor.
simsarge
Footballguy
There used to be a Opinion Of The Masses on the front page seemed to do this. I thought it did a pretty good job of capturing the advice of us regular joes. It may need some tweeking to allow for different scoring systems but I think it would be what the Dr ordered rather than a bunch of forums/subforums. The Dominators and MyFBG are the Tech Mechanisms that incorporate the FBG experts opinions.
