Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (2 Viewers)

[Daywalker]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

 

[Sabertooth]

He may have done it. But that's what reasonable doubt is all about.

I'm not losing sleep either, but I would like to see Brendan get a new trial at the very least. There is not one shred of physical evidence with Brendan. Only his story, that he was fed and just nodded along. That's total bull####.

 

[cockroach]

Legal experts say that Kratz is a boob.

talking about how wrong his pretrial (hide the kids) press conference:

"Why does this matter? Because you are not allowed to gin up the public and misrepresent the evidence when talking to the press, and the only reason you do that is when you and the police don't have a good case to begin with. Ken Kratz was trying this case in the press to disparage the defendants. What these judges should have done was put a gag order in place. There should have been some consequences from the Wisconsin Bar Association, and the judge who is seeing this nonsense go on should have put a stop to this. Nobody in this case wanted a fair trial."

Same as going after his GF, and then his r-tard nephew and planting evidence.

There are a lot of circumstances that point to there not being a strong case against Avery. And the evidence that is strong against him is tainted by police/lab misconduct.

 

[Hooper31]

Interview with Jodi (does not involve Nancy Grace).

Thanks for sharing this. If everyone watches this I have a strong feeling this thread will turn to..... :crickets:

 

[cockroach]

Interview with Jodi (does not involve Nancy Grace).

Thanks for sharing this. If everyone watches this I have a strong feeling this thread will turn to..... :crickets:

The comments and downvotes are interesting. People want to believe they know everything from watching the series. Steve is a scum-bag.

Still not saying law enforcement didn't do some things to try to solidify their case. And there is still the whole Brendan issue.

You guys really think that interview is that damning?

What about when she's asked why she finally left SA?

What specifically about it do you think is going to cause *crickets* ?

 

[cockroach]

Ludwig Von ########## 7 hours ago
I bet her and steven did some DIRTY stuff while they dated. Guarantee you this woman defecated on Steven's chest atleast a dozen times.


And because he had a Mr. Furley avatar I read it in a Don Knotts voice.

 

[The Gator]

Interview with Jodi (does not involve Nancy Grace).

Thanks for sharing this. If everyone watches this I have a strong feeling this thread will turn to..... :crickets:

Still waiting for these reports of abuse to be linked

 

[bigmarc27]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

I think you're missing the point.

Did they do it? I don't know - have no idea. That said, the entire thing pretty explicitly shows that dumb and poor equates to guilt. Reasonable doubt is set aside for the intelligent and wealthy.

I'm not a liberal hippy, but there's a large disparity of how justice is dealt in this country. This documentary put a light to the fact that it's not necessarily a white/black problem like people always believe, but more of a have/have not problem.

 

[Hooper31]

I guess you'll keep waiting. Are you under the impression that anyone is obligated to do your homework for you? Further, are you implying that the HLN just made it up that they confirmed that these police reports exist?

Do I think Avery is guilty? I don't know. None of us will ever know. Am I going to lose sleep knowing Avery is in prison? Not a wink. The Brendan trial bothers me a bit, but I'm not going to write any letters or make any phone calls because of what I saw in the documentary. They showed us a biased account of what happened IMO.

 

[Hooper31]

That said, the entire thing pretty explicitly shows that dumb and poor equates to guilt. Reasonable doubt is set aside for the intelligent and wealthy.

I think I get what you're saying, but I'm not so sure Avery represents poor. I don't know how much he paid for his defense, but I'm thinking it was a lot of money that the state awarded him for his earlier wrongful conviction.

 

[Popinski]

That said, the entire thing pretty explicitly shows that dumb and poor equates to guilt. Reasonable doubt is set aside for the intelligent and wealthy.

I think I get what you're saying, but I'm not so sure Avery represents poor. I don't know how much he paid for his defense, but I'm thinking it was a lot of money that the state awarded him for his earlier wrongful conviction.

And that money got Avery very good representation at his trial, despite him losing. On the other hand, Brendan initially had that crook Kachinsky and then that second pair of appointed lawyers who, while not corrupt, were not in the same league as Strang and Buting. He didn't have a decent team until the wrongful convictions group from Northwestern got involved in his post conviction hearing.

I think the larger theme, aside from just rich/poor, was alluded to in one of Strang's reflections about the system in a later episodes:

Most of what ails our criminal justice system lies in an unwarranted certitude on the part of police officers, and prosecutors and defense lawyers and judges and jurors that theyre getting it right. That theyre simply right. Just a tragic lack of humility of everyone who participates in our criminal justice system.

 

[Hooper31]

On the other hand, Brendan initially had that crook Kachinsky and then that second pair of appointed lawyers who, while not corrupt, were not in the same league as Strang and Buting. He didn't have a decent team until the wrongful convictions group from Northwestern got involved in his post conviction hearing.

No disagreement there. Brendan is a much better example of the system not working for someone that can't afford decent representation. I don't understand how Kachinsky hasn't been prosecuted for a crime. He was supposed to be representing Brendan, but was working double time for the prosecution.

 

[Das Boot]

'Making a Murderer': The Brendan Dassey Confession Viewers Didn't See
So I guess the implication based on the above article's headline is that we would have been more shocked and less skeptical if we had seen this additional part of the interview.

Then you read it, and realize it is just more of the same old exceptionally improbably "story" from Brendan.

Only now, Brendan and Avery planned the murder ahead of time. And the amazingly effective and precise cleanup job they did together after the murder was wiping up blood with Teresa's clothing.

The only potentially meaningful new info I saw that would help the prosecution was that supposedly Avery put Teresa's body in the jeep briefly, before deciding to burn her body. It would be interesting to know if the police led Brendan into making that particular statement, because otherwise it answers one question that Avery's defenders point out, which is why would he put her in the Rav4 if he was just going to burn the body in his nearby fire pit.

 

[facook]

General question, but also the same question specifically to this case...

First thing lawyers ask their client in their initial meeting is "Did you do it?" right?

Obligatory I've worked on probably 10k plus cases and have never asked nor felt the need to ask.

What is standard pay for a court appointed atty per case?

 

[Binky The Doormat]

General question, but also the same question specifically to this case...

First thing lawyers ask their client in their initial meeting is "Did you do it?" right?

Obligatory I've worked on probably 10k plus cases and have never asked nor felt the need to ask.

What is standard pay for a court appointed atty per case?

Defense atty - $500/week. In Manitowoc County, an extra $3K per after major felony conviction is achieved.

 

[SWC]

zow how many years have you been an attorney that is a lot of cases how many do you have per year brohan you must be seriously taking it to the bank

 

[JShare87]

Interview with Jodi (does not involve Nancy Grace).

Thanks for sharing this. If everyone watches this I have a strong feeling this thread will turn to..... :crickets:

I have no clue if Steve did it or not. There are a lot of things going against him but this doesn't make sense at all. Why the hell would she stay when he was in prison if she wanted to leave so bad? Why would she call him 2 to 3 times a day from jail if he was such a monster. I'm sorry, her story just doesn't add up. The best line was, "he threatened to kill me multiple times." Reporter: How? She pauses, then says, "well he said he'd throw the hairdryer in the bathtub." Everything she did in that documentary screamed that she really wanted to be with him. Going to visit him with his parents, being in a safe place of an interrogation room and still sticking by the "monster's" side. Get outta here lady, you got your 30 minutes of fame.

 

[cockroach]

Yea, and she finally leaves him after going to jail for a no-contact order they put on her and Steve. Don't see how anyone could possibly buy her story.

 

[Han Solo]

Interview with Jodi (does not involve Nancy Grace).

Thanks for sharing this. If everyone watches this I have a strong feeling this thread will turn to..... :crickets:

I have no clue if Steve did it or not. There are a lot of things going against him but this doesn't make sense at all. Why the hell would she stay when he was in prison if she wanted to leave so bad? Why would she call him 2 to 3 times a day from jail if he was such a monster. I'm sorry, her story just doesn't add up. The best line was, "he threatened to kill me multiple times." Reporter: How? She pauses, then says, "well he said he'd throw the hairdryer in the bathtub." Everything she did in that documentary screamed that she really wanted to be with him. Going to visit him with his parents, being in a safe place of an interrogation room and still sticking by the "monster's" side. Get outta here lady, you got your 30 minutes of fame.

Yea, and she finally leaves him after going to jail for a no-contact order they put on her and Steve. Don't see how anyone could possibly buy her story.

If anyone believes what she's selling that's a joke. She could have been given a 100 bucks to say what she's saying now. When was this interview done? After the Netflix phenomenon? I don't blame her at all. She's a small town piece of chit and always will be...if she can get paid why not....nothing previously of her on film remotly suggests she is telling the truth now. Seriously, she'd suck a pecker of a stranger for 20 bucks...probably 10. People are going to give credence to what she is saying now....they dolled her up for the interview and she still looks like someone you wouldn't let jerk you off...she's fired....next...

 

[bucksoh]

Interview with Jodi (does not involve Nancy Grace).

To bad she won't be on Dr. Phil to take a polygraph, or for that matter the police, judge, all attorneys, pretty much everyone involved in the doc. There would be a lot more dead bodies.

 

[Judge Smails]

Anyone watching this Nancy Grace "interview" with the girlfriend. Its really just a couple of clips so far and Nancy Grace screeching.

She's one of the most vile human beings currently walking the earth.

She's the freakin' worst. Hate her with a passion. Every suspect is presumed to be guilty until proven innocent, and even then.............And then there's that lovely personality of hers. What a pig. Her appearance on Dr. Phil was disgusting...

 

[Judge Smails]

I honestly don't know who's innocent or guilty. The biggest motive anybody had was to make that $30+M lawsuit go away. To think two 70+ IQ guys could commit a murder, leave behind the car, bones and keys, but no DNA, is, ummm, hard to fathom. The kid's court appointed attorney was incompetent and a disgrace to the legal profession. To see the interviewing techniques used and the outcome it makes me wonder just how many people are rotting in our prison system having confessed to take a plea and avoid life in prison railroading. The poor have zero chance. The investigation reeked. I don't care if the documentary was biased or not - anyone who says there is not reasonable doubt is smokin' somethin'.

Oh, I can't tell how how much joy I got to see Ken Kratz's life unravel. Smug, despicable ####er..Even if Avery did it, I respect Kratz less. Sexting domestic violence victims you sick ####????

 

[Daywalker]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

I think you're missing the point.

Did they do it? I don't know - have no idea. That said, the entire thing pretty explicitly shows that dumb and poor equates to guilt. Reasonable doubt is set aside for the intelligent and wealthy.

I'm not a liberal hippy, but there's a large disparity of how justice is dealt in this country. This documentary put a light to the fact that it's not necessarily a white/black problem like people always believe, but more of a have/have not problem.

Did u miss the part where I said the police probably planted evidence and that reasonable doubt probably warranted?

I'm just expressing my opinion that Avery likely did it. The vibe I get from his lawyers is that it was a shoddy trial but not exactly that their client did not do it. Just my opinion.

 

[Daywalker]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

Huh? I don't get it, he's got a burn pit in his backyard because these hicks burn stuff back there all the time. It was Halloween night, they live in Wisconsin with nothing to do, and they wanted to have a bonfire that night. I don't see that as proof of his guilt. If someone else was on the property and saw that the guy has a freshly used burn pit, why not burn the body and sneak the ashes back there later? No one was home for a week.

Avery is a weirdo with a sordid past and bad reputation with Teresa already.She has appointment with avery day she goes missing.

Avery admits to having bonfire that night. Her remains found there. Right behind where he sleeps.

He bought leg irons.

Do I think police planted evidence? Likely. Would I have voted not guilty due to that? Perhaps.

Do I think he did it? Be shocked if he didn't.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

Huh? I don't get it, he's got a burn pit in his backyard because these hicks burn stuff back there all the time. It was Halloween night, they live in Wisconsin with nothing to do, and they wanted to have a bonfire that night. I don't see that as proof of his guilt. If someone else was on the property and saw that the guy has a freshly used burn pit, why not burn the body and sneak the ashes back there later? No one was home for a week.

Avery is a weirdo with a sordid past and bad reputation with Teresa already.She has appointment with avery day she goes missing.

Avery admits to having bonfire that night. Her remains found there. Right behind where he sleeps.

He bought leg irons.

Do I think police planted evidence? Likely. Would I have voted not guilty due to that? Perhaps.

Do I think he did it? Be shocked if he didn't.

Did you see the picture of the "leg irons"?

 

[Daywalker]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

Huh? I don't get it, he's got a burn pit in his backyard because these hicks burn stuff back there all the time. It was Halloween night, they live in Wisconsin with nothing to do, and they wanted to have a bonfire that night. I don't see that as proof of his guilt.If someone else was on the property and saw that the guy has a freshly used burn pit, why not burn the body and sneak the ashes back there later? No one was home for a week.

Avery is a weirdo with a sordid past and bad reputation with Teresa already.She has appointment with avery day she goes missing.

Avery admits to having bonfire that night. Her remains found there. Right behind where he sleeps.

He bought leg irons.

Do I think police planted evidence? Likely. Would I have voted not guilty due to that? Perhaps.

Do I think he did it? Be shocked if he didn't.

Did you see the picture of the "leg irons"?

Are they fluffy?

 

[Homer J Simpson]

Overheard people talking about the doc and they all were adamant Avery didn't do it.

I tend to think the police planted evidence. Probably reasonable doubt to be had.

But Avery did it.

A bonfire took place outside Avery's trailer. Burnt tires were all over Halbach's bones and belongings. No random person just came along and did that on that night.

Brendan? He's borderline ######ed. The case against him is weak. But I do think he was involved in some capacity.

Not losing sleep over these two.

Huh? I don't get it, he's got a burn pit in his backyard because these hicks burn stuff back there all the time. It was Halloween night, they live in Wisconsin with nothing to do, and they wanted to have a bonfire that night. I don't see that as proof of his guilt.If someone else was on the property and saw that the guy has a freshly used burn pit, why not burn the body and sneak the ashes back there later? No one was home for a week.

Avery is a weirdo with a sordid past and bad reputation with Teresa already.She has appointment with avery day she goes missing.

Avery admits to having bonfire that night. Her remains found there. Right behind where he sleeps.

He bought leg irons.

Do I think police planted evidence? Likely. Would I have voted not guilty due to that? Perhaps.

Do I think he did it? Be shocked if he didn't.

Did you see the picture of the "leg irons"?

Are they fluffy?

They are fluffy.

 

[cockroach]

Dassey Juror:

http://wbay.com/2016/01/18/juror-from-dassey-case-should-be-a-new-trial/

Doesn't seem to have a grasp of what "beyond a reasonable doubt" is... but is more of a "peer" of Branden than I would have expected.

 

[cockroach]

The US justice system is such a mess.

Lawyers often intentionally aim for jurors who are weak willed and won't understand the evidence.

We need a new system.

A shot of Sodium Pentothal or a rapid hypnosis induction right before a witness takes the stand?

I've seen some people suggest "professional jurors"... but that just seems to me like a more controllable variable for the State to manipulate.

I think an intense psychedelic drug trip of some kind would be good.

 

[comfortably numb]

Very well done.

Some shady MFers in law enforcement and the justice system.

Surprised Avery was talking to the police during the murder investigation without an attorney.

 

[SacramentoBob]

I have no idea how to replace our current justice system, I just know I don't like it. Sometimes it seems like the prosecution cares more about their stats than the truth. Maybe that's our fault.

 

[MattFancy]

I have no idea how to replace our current justice system, I just know I don't like it. Sometimes it seems like the prosecution cares more about their stats than the truth. Maybe that's our fault.

I think all the crime dramas on TV play a role. We're so used to seeing shows like Law & Order, CSI, etc. where in the end, they always get their man/woman. It turns out in the real world, it's not always that simple. Think it's important that documentaries like this exist. They don't need to tell you if they think the person is guilty or innocent. But show the people watching that cases aren't always open and shut.

 

[comfortably numb]

I have no idea how to replace our current justice system, I just know I don't like it. Sometimes it seems like the prosecution cares more about their stats than the truth. Maybe that's our fault.

I know it's not a popular opinion, especially in this thread...but as bad as it seems it is still one of the best justice systems in the world.

As always a few bad eggs overshadow a lot of the good ones.

 

[Trey]

I know this has probably been covered a million times over but holy #### the white trash level is off the charts.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Wisconsin in one ugly state

 

[Das Boot]

Very well done.

Some shady MFers in law enforcement and the justice system.

Surprised Avery was talking to the police during the murder investigation without an attorney.

3 possible reasons he did so:

1. He's innocent

2. He has an IQ of 70

3. He was using reverse psychology (unsuccessfully)

 

[comfortably numb]

Very well done.

Some shady MFers in law enforcement and the justice system.

Surprised Avery was talking to the police during the murder investigation without an attorney.

3 possible reasons he did so:

1. He's innocent

2. He has an IQ of 70

3. He was using reverse psychology (unsuccessfully)

I know if I was railroaded once by the police and spent 18 years in jail for a crime i didn't commit, I wouldn't drive by a cop directing traffic without my attorney in the passenger seat!

 

[parasaurolophus]

Very well done.

Some shady MFers in law enforcement and the justice system.

Surprised Avery was talking to the police during the murder investigation without an attorney.

3 possible reasons he did so:

1. He's innocent

2. He has an IQ of 70

3. He was using reverse psychology (unsuccessfully)

if dassey has an IQ of 73, there is no way Avery's is 70.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Thought they said Averys was 79

 

[cockroach]

I think they said "in the 70s" for IQ on Avery... but that was a test from when he was in HS... around Brendan's age.

I don't think that means a whole lot with these people though. They've been told how stupid and disgusting they are their whole life, I doubt they put much effort into an IQ test as a teen. They prob just want it to be over so they can go smoke a cigarette.

 

[Das Boot]

Watch 'Making a Murderer' Lawyer Discuss the Benefits of Web Sleuths

"Some of these people online have found things with a screen shot of a picture that we missed," defense attorney Jerry Buting says

 

[identikit]

Sorry if this has been posted already but Discovery ID will be airing 'Steven Avery: Innocent or Guilty?' on January 30th.

Hopefully more even-handed.

 

[Franknbeans]

I am only 6 episodes in but have they even established a motive for Steve to have murdered her? I don't ger all the folks agreeing with the prosecution that he probably did it.

 

[Mors Venit]

I am only 6 episodes in but have they even established a motive for Steve to have murdered her? I don't ger all the folks agreeing with the prosecution that he probably did it.

Every day uncle and nephew bonding in rural wisconsin

 

[Das Boot]

I am only 6 episodes in but have they even established a motive for Steve to have murdered her? I don't ger all the folks agreeing with the prosecution that he probably did it.

It seems to me that most people that agree with the prosecution had formed their opinion based on regional newscasts and publicity from the original period of the trial.

Most people had never heard of the case before the documentary, and I'd guess that the majority of people who started out with no knowledge of the case and watched the documentary have, at a minimum, reasonable doubt about the prosecution's version of events and evidence.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Ever since seeing this interview with Ken Kratz about five minutes ago, I have been a big fan of Jena Friedman.

 

[Daywalker]

Ever since seeing this interview with Ken Kratz about five minutes ago, I have been a big fan of Jena Friedman.

It's like an episode of The Office or Modern Family.

 

[SIDA!]

Ever since seeing this interview with Ken Kratz about five minutes ago, I have been a big fan of Jena Friedman.

I am not even sure what the #### this is...is it a comedy skit...is she a legit interviewer?

Kratz stock went up in my book. I feel like he played this very well.

 

[Billy Bats]

Where's the stripper pole?? I can't be the only one assuming a strip tease would finish that off?! Tremendous.

 

[Deepster]

I am only 6 episodes in but have they even established a motive for Steve to have murdered her? I don't ger all the folks agreeing with the prosecution that he probably did it.

They never really establish any motive for Avery, and beyond that, never ever investigate others who may have motive (ex boyfriend, roommate, etc).