Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)

[cockroach]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

 

[bucksoh]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

LOL

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Just finished this last night, crazy story that I knew nothing about going into it. I have a hard time thinking he did it based on watching the series. Evidence definitely was planted, not sure how you could conclude otherwise after his blood sample was tampered with and the key and bullet only show up after multiple searches of the same area. Additionally, the recording of the cop asking about the plate # and then saying it was a RAV4 seems incredibly damning.

Yeah

 

[shadyridr]

Not sure if this was posted yet if so please forgive the honda. I thought the conversation Brendan had on the phone with his mom from the Sheboygan County Jail was very interesting. Seems like she was pretty certain that Steven did it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lr7iif6ca3xp5sa/Transcript%20-%20May%2013%2C%202006%20%28Dassey%20to%20Mother%29.pdf?dl=0

You can read the whole thing for yourself but some excerpts

M: You don't even have to say it Brendan

B: Why?

M: Because just by the way you are acting I know what it is

B: What

M: I don't want to say it over the phone

B: About what all happened?

M: Huh

B: About what all happened?

M: What all happened, what are you talking about?

B: About what me and Steven did that day

M: What about it?

B: Well, Mike & Mark & Matt came up one day and took another interview with me and said because they think I was lying but so, they said if I come out with it that Iwould have to go to jail for 90 years

M: What?

B: Ya, but if I came out with it I would probably get I dunno like 20 or less. After the interview they told me if I wanted to say something to her family and said that I was sorry for what I did.

M: Than Steven did do it

B: Ya

Then later

M: Why did you even go over there Brendan?

B: I dunno, I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though

M: What do you mean?

B: I ain't gonna face them

M: Face who?

B: Steven

M: You know what Brendan

B: What

M: I am gonna tell you something. He did it and you do what you gotta do

B: What will happen if he gets pissed off

M: What makes a difference, he ain't going no where now

B: No

M: Why didn't you tell me about this earlier? (Mom crying) Huh

B: ( ) Brendan's voice breaking up

The conversation then goes on about some other interesting allegations in there about how Steven molested Brendan

If I hadn't watched the documentary, and had read this transcript or heard it played, I'd have assumed it's an admission of guilt.

After having watched the documentary and knowing the context behind how this was orchestrated and why it was done, I have an entirely different opinion of it.

It was actually one of the most vile things in the entire show on the part of the police, and that's saying something.

But what I found interesting was that this was from a phone conversation he had from his jail cell to his mother. Not from the coerced confession. Do you think he was influenced yet by the confession in this conversation? Were the officers present when this phone call took place? How do you then explain his mom's reaction?

holy #### watch the ####### show

 

[MattFancy]

Can we all just ignore KingPrawn until he actually decides to watch this thing?

 

[Sabertooth]

I get all that. But that's not the point I was trying to make. She doesn't seem to doubt that Steven was capable of doing this at all. It struck me as a strange reaction. But apparently not so much to others.

If the two main choices you're considering at the moment are that your son did it or Steven Avery did it, you're not going to have any problem believing that Steven Avery could have done it. (Unless you're Steven Avery's mom, in which case you've got yourself a paradox of sorts.)

I can buy that. But why wouldn't she consider others? Why wouldn't she consider other relatives? Steven Avery also was saying in interviews several days before he was arrested that he was gong to be set up. Then why would she consider only her son and Steven as suspects?

The most likely others are her other son Bobby, her boyfriend Scott Tadych, or her brothers Earl or Chuck. Too bad the cops never even blinked at that murderers row of men with abusive and sexual deviant histories. Of course none of those guys had a good shot at a multi million dollar lawsuit.

 

[Sabertooth]

Can we all just ignore KingPrawn until he actually decides to watch this thing?

Agreed. I'm done.

 

[MattFancy]

As mentioned in I think episode 8 - being found guilty on charge 1 made everything else meaningless. Guilty on that alone meant life in prison. Not really a compromise to find him guilty of one thing that puts him in prison for life but not another that does the same thing. I just think they didn't produce enough evidence to show he did in fact "mutilate" her.

But then Brendan was found guilty of that charge.

If you're saying he murdered her, but didn't burn her body, then who burned the body? Brendan?

Well, he confessed to it.

Maybe I missed that part, but he specifically said that he burned the body and not Steven?

Either way, I definitely think the jury compromised on that charge. If you say he was guilty of the murder and was seen as the main mastermind behind the whole thing, how do you not find him guilty of mutilating the body also? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you're saying they didn't find him guilty of it because it didn't matter because of the 1st degree murder charge, then why find him guilty on the firearm one too?

What was that charge?

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

 

[The Kerminator]

Not sure if this was posted yet if so please forgive the honda. I thought the conversation Brendan had on the phone with his mom from the Sheboygan County Jail was very interesting. Seems like she was pretty certain that Steven did it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lr7iif6ca3xp5sa/Transcript%20-%20May%2013%2C%202006%20%28Dassey%20to%20Mother%29.pdf?dl=0

You can read the whole thing for yourself but some excerpts

M: You don't even have to say it Brendan

B: Why?

M: Because just by the way you are acting I know what it is

B: What

M: I don't want to say it over the phone

B: About what all happened?

M: Huh

B: About what all happened?

M: What all happened, what are you talking about?

B: About what me and Steven did that day

M: What about it?

B: Well, Mike & Mark & Matt came up one day and took another interview with me and said because they think I was lying but so, they said if I come out with it that Iwould have to go to jail for 90 years

M: What?

B: Ya, but if I came out with it I would probably get I dunno like 20 or less. After the interview they told me if I wanted to say something to her family and said that I was sorry for what I did.

M: Than Steven did do it

B: Ya

Then later

M: Why did you even go over there Brendan?

B: I dunno, I don't even know how I'm gonna do it in court though

M: What do you mean?

B: I ain't gonna face them

M: Face who?

B: Steven

M: You know what Brendan

B: What

M: I am gonna tell you something. He did it and you do what you gotta do

B: What will happen if he gets pissed off

M: What makes a difference, he ain't going no where now

B: No

M: Why didn't you tell me about this earlier? (Mom crying) Huh

B: ( ) Brendan's voice breaking up

The conversation then goes on about some other interesting allegations in there about how Steven molested Brendan

If I hadn't watched the documentary, and had read this transcript or heard it played, I'd have assumed it's an admission of guilt.

After having watched the documentary and knowing the context behind how this was orchestrated and why it was done, I have an entirely different opinion of it.

It was actually one of the most vile things in the entire show on the part of the police, and that's saying something.

But what I found interesting was that this was from a phone conversation he had from his jail cell to his mother. Not from the coerced confession. Do you think he was influenced yet by the confession in this conversation? Were the officers present when this phone call took place? How do you then explain his mom's reaction?

Seriously did you even watch the show yet?

Did you see my follow up to Tremblay's post and subsequent posts or did you choose to ignore that? I thought maybe that clarified where I was coming from. I also don't happen to believe that Brendan repeats some of those lines of questions or thoughts without there being a certain % of truth to them. Particularly the questions about Steven possibly molesting him. I would think that would be highly embarrassing and difficult to repeat without there being some truth to it. Maybe you don't think so.

 

[The Kerminator]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

Is that a threat? Oooh I'm scared.

Why? Because I don't happen to parrot what the shows makers are telling you and want you to believe? Because I don't happen to believe that what's being presented is 100% the truth? Because I happen to believe that the show was highly edited to present their point of view and only their point of view? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took the estimated 400 hours or so of footage you could edit it as well to make Steven Avery look like the worst most vial person to ever walk this planet? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took that same footage, edited it down to 10 hours, threw in some footage of press conferences from the vatican accompanied by dramatic music, then splice in some shots of a hot looking reporter who's facial expressions may or may not be from the burrito she had at lunch, you could make it look like the pope himself committed the murder? I'm just not buying in 100% as to what the filmmakers are presenting.

 

[John Bender]

Why are you directly refusing to answer about whether or not you watched the show? You're answers are getting really weird now.

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[cockroach]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

Is that a threat? Oooh I'm scared.

Why? Because I don't happen to parrot what the shows makers are telling you and want you to believe? Because I don't happen to believe that what's being presented is 100% the truth? Because I happen to believe that the show was highly edited to present their point of view and only their point of view? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took the estimated 400 hours or so of footage you could edit it as well to make Steven Avery look like the worst most vial person to ever walk this planet? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took that same footage, edited it down to 10 hours, threw in some footage of press conferences from the vatican accompanied by dramatic music, then splice in some shots of a hot looking reporter who's facial expressions may or may not be from the burrito she had at lunch, you could make it look like the pope himself committed the murder? I'm just not buying in 100% as to what the filmmakers are presenting.

It's not a threat. It's a reference to the show. You'd know that if you'd watched it

You have the 3rd most posts (5 away from #1) in a thread about a show that you refuse to watch. Noone is asking you to buy into anything any percent, just watch the show. Do you really think you know more about the case by NOT watching it?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Think Avery did it but got to say most of the missing evidence left out is weak.

Even Avery calling her 3 times that day not weird considering they had an appointment.

He killed a cat 25 years earlier? Oh wow.

How can you say this isn't weird? The two calls being from *67 is freakin weird. Doesnt mean he is guilty of murder but it is freakin weird. That is absolutely not normal behavior. You know who uses *67 twice? People that don't want the other person to know who is calling. That's it. That is 100% of the people that use *67.

Big deal right he killed a cat? I mean when I was younger, I used to put oil and gas on cats, dogs, deer, whatever I could get my hands on and throw them in bonfires. Didn't everybody??? I remember this one time my cousins and me, we was out back just shootin. I held a gun to my cousin and was like come on Cletus, throw that cat in the fire. He reckoned that there cat had 9 lives so he done it. And then we started wrastlin. I got in 2 maybe 3 solid nut shots during.

You don't have to try and explain away the weird #### this creep did to make an argument there was reasonable doubt here about a lot of things.

 

[playin4beer]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

 

[RUSF18]

There was zero doubt in my mind that Prawn would miss that reference.

 

[RUSF18]

Think Avery did it but got to say most of the missing evidence left out is weak.

Even Avery calling her 3 times that day not weird considering they had an appointment.

He killed a cat 25 years earlier? Oh wow.

How can you say this isn't weird? The two calls being from *67 is freakin weird. Doesnt mean he is guilty of murder but it is freakin weird. That is absolutely not normal behavior. You know who uses *67 twice? People that don't want the other person to know who is calling. That's it. That is 100% of the people that use *67.

I read somewhere a while back (maybe even here) that Avery used *67 because he was concerned about his privacy, he being Avery and all. I'm asking legitimately...did anyone ever investigate/confirm if he used that at other times than when he called Halbach?

 

[Road Warriors]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

Is that a threat? Oooh I'm scared.

Why? Because I don't happen to parrot what the shows makers are telling you and want you to believe? Because I don't happen to believe that what's being presented is 100% the truth? Because I happen to believe that the show was highly edited to present their point of view and only their point of view? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took the estimated 400 hours or so of footage you could edit it as well to make Steven Avery look like the worst most vial person to ever walk this planet? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took that same footage, edited it down to 10 hours, threw in some footage of press conferences from the vatican accompanied by dramatic music, then splice in some shots of a hot looking reporter who's facial expressions may or may not be from the burrito she had at lunch, you could make it look like the pope himself committed the murder? I'm just not buying in 100% as to what the filmmakers are presenting.

:whoosh:

 

[GOB]

Why are you directly refusing to answer about whether or not you watched the show? You're answers are getting really weird now.

I'll hang up and listen.

Don't get strange.

 

[Sabertooth]

So why did Lenk lie on the stand about the log? Was that perjury? Also Tadych giving the statement that the fire was 10 feet high and then it being shown that he originally said it was three feet high? Is that perjury?

 

[LAUNCH]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

Is that a threat? Oooh I'm scared.

Why? Because I don't happen to parrot what the shows makers are telling you and want you to believe? Because I don't happen to believe that what's being presented is 100% the truth? Because I happen to believe that the show was highly edited to present their point of view and only their point of view? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took the estimated 400 hours or so of footage you could edit it as well to make Steven Avery look like the worst most vial person to ever walk this planet? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took that same footage, edited it down to 10 hours, threw in some footage of press conferences from the vatican accompanied by dramatic music, then splice in some shots of a hot looking reporter who's facial expressions may or may not be from the burrito she had at lunch, you could make it look like the pope himself committed the murder? I'm just not buying in 100% as to what the filmmakers are presenting.

:whoosh:

If there was a response that cockroach was looking for....That's gold Jerry, gold.

 

[MattFancy]

So why did Lenk lie on the stand about the log? Was that perjury? Also Tadych giving the statement that the fire was 10 feet high and then it being shown that he originally said it was three feet high? Is that perjury?

The Lenk one maybe could be? Woz would probably know that better than anyone else in here. But to me, I could see it as perjury. Like they said during the trial, the time may not have been easy to remember, but there's a difference between 2:30pm and 6:30pm that time of the year. It's during the light or dark out.

As for Tadych, I don't think the height of the flames was that big of a deal. Though, you would probably remember pretty well if the flames were 10ft high.

 

[cockroach]

So KP, we already know you didn't watch it. But we really need you to be honest, if you didn't... it's okay... but if you lie about it, there's gonna be problems

Is that a threat? Oooh I'm scared.

Why? Because I don't happen to parrot what the shows makers are telling you and want you to believe? Because I don't happen to believe that what's being presented is 100% the truth? Because I happen to believe that the show was highly edited to present their point of view and only their point of view? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took the estimated 400 hours or so of footage you could edit it as well to make Steven Avery look like the worst most vial person to ever walk this planet? Why, because I happen to believe that if you took that same footage, edited it down to 10 hours, threw in some footage of press conferences from the vatican accompanied by dramatic music, then splice in some shots of a hot looking reporter who's facial expressions may or may not be from the burrito she had at lunch, you could make it look like the pope himself committed the murder? I'm just not buying in 100% as to what the filmmakers are presenting.

:whoosh:

If there was a response that cockroach was looking for....That's gold Jerry, gold.

The old Fassbender, works every time [the target has a 60 IQ]

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

One of the reasons I think the brothers have to looked at. Steven getting out of jail and returning to the business cut their ownership share. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were fighting with Steven about how much of his settlement he should share with them. If SA said the settlement was his and his alone, it doesn't take much of a leap to give the brothers motive.

I'm a little confused about the *67 calls...is it somehow known that they came directly from Avery, or is it an approximation based on the location of the call? Could those calls have come from a brother? Could they have left voice mails that were later deleted? I need a deep dive into the brothers - they are hardly touched on in the documentary (maybe they refused to be filmed).

 

[Cjw_55106]

I would assume the *67 details came from the phone company.

 

[parrot]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

One of the reasons I think the brothers have to looked at. Steven getting out of jail and returning to the business cut their ownership share. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were fighting with Steven about how much of his settlement he should share with them. If SA said the settlement was his and his alone, it doesn't take much of a leap to give the brothers motive.

I'm a little confused about the *67 calls...is it somehow known that they came directly from Avery, or is it an approximation based on the location of the call? Could those calls have come from a brother? Could they have left voice mails that were later deleted? I need a deep dive into the brothers - they are hardly touched on in the documentary (maybe they refused to be filmed).

I believe they showed on Steven's phone bill.

 

[RUSF18]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

One of the reasons I think the brothers have to looked at. Steven getting out of jail and returning to the business cut their ownership share. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were fighting with Steven about how much of his settlement he should share with them. If SA said the settlement was his and his alone, it doesn't take much of a leap to give the brothers motive.

I'm a little confused about the *67 calls...is it somehow known that they came directly from Avery, or is it an approximation based on the location of the call? Could those calls have come from a brother? Could they have left voice mails that were later deleted? I need a deep dive into the brothers - they are hardly touched on in the documentary (maybe they refused to be filmed).

I'm pretty sure it costs a few cents to place any of those *67 or *69 (call back, I believe) calls which means it shows up on a phone bill. My complete guess is that's where the prosecution found out about it, although I've never seen a record of it.

What I think would be important is how many times he did that in a few month span. If it only occurred when calling the girl, I agree that it's at best odd and potentially signals something worse. But if he did it in other instances, I think it's just tossed entirely.

 

[Hooper31]

Watched the first two episodes last night. Avery looks horribly guilty at the moment. Gal was obviously at the salvage yard. Something bad must have happened to her. I guess I'm worried that the next group of episodes are going to make it look like a conspiracy theorist sort of thing, like he was being set up. Makes me realize that we like things to be straight forward and simple. Being wary of the police makes me cringe.

 

[matttyl]

I think she committed suicide, or her ex boyfriend killed her. The police found her body. Which explains the cop calling in the license plate. Explains why all the evidence found on SA property was planted, and also explains Halbachs(sp?) video. No one else thinks this.?

Been thinking about this idea for a bit today. The bolded is the part I can't get past. They would have had to know just where to look, and when to look there - to be the only ones to see her dead, but not (yet) burned. They'd then have to move the body from wherever it was and move it to SA's burnpit without any Avery knowing so that he could (unknowingly) light her on fire - or burn the body themselves without anyone else knowing and move the remains to the burnpit during one of the searches. How does Lenk and/or Colburn and whoever else is potentially involved find the body without anyone else knowing or seeing anything - then burn it without anyone else knowing about it?

Same way they found the car before anyone else knew about it?

Finding a car and finding a body are two different things.

Not really. Seems easy that she could be close to or in her own car.

And if in it (and dead) for 3-4 days (from the 31st of October till it was "found" November 3rd) - that's going to leave some trail that would have been discovered. Blood, evidence of a decaying body, horrible smell.

Most suicides I believe I read, when they shoot themselves don't do it in the car, they do it away cause they don't want to mess up their things. Explains why there was only a small amount of blood in the back of the car at least to me.

I think you mean that most women, if killing themselves, do it in a way where the cleanup won't be difficult. That's why many slit their wrists in the tub, while men will hang themselves more often or shoot themselves in the head or whatever. Anyway, we'd have to assume that she killed herself outside of the car, but near it, and the first person to find the pair was a cop. Had it been anyone else (likely), they would have said "you know I saw that car, or I remember that girl being at such and such a place." A cop found her, and put her in the back?

 

[RUSF18]

Watched the first two episodes last night. Avery looks horribly guilty at the moment. Gal was obviously at the salvage yard. Something bad must have happened to her. I guess I'm worried that the next group of episodes are going to make it look like a conspiracy theorist sort of thing, like he was being set up. Makes me realize that we like things to be straight forward and simple. Being wary of the police makes me cringe.

Let's see how you feel after another 8 episodes.

 

[matttyl]

As mentioned in I think episode 8 - being found guilty on charge 1 made everything else meaningless. Guilty on that alone meant life in prison. Not really a compromise to find him guilty of one thing that puts him in prison for life but not another that does the same thing. I just think they didn't produce enough evidence to show he did in fact "mutilate" her.

But then Brendan was found guilty of that charge.

If you're saying he murdered her, but didn't burn her body, then who burned the body? Brendan?

Well, he confessed to it.

Maybe I missed that part, but he specifically said that he burned the body and not Steven?

Either way, I definitely think the jury compromised on that charge. If you say he was guilty of the murder and was seen as the main mastermind behind the whole thing, how do you not find him guilty of mutilating the body also? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you're saying they didn't find him guilty of it because it didn't matter because of the 1st degree murder charge, then why find him guilty on the firearm one too?

What was that charge?

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

 

[Sabertooth]

Apparently the ex boyfriend violated some laws by hacking her phone. Plus he, you know, killed her....maybe.

 

[matttyl]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

I don't think they wanted to come across and say they were "poor", it's just that whatever "wealth" they had wasn't liquid. When they needed to hire a good defense team (or was it to pay his bond, I'm not sure), they attempted to put up the property and the court wouldn't let them. Sure, they had "assets", but it wasn't cash.

No different from lots of folks who live around me who inherited family property (land). They are "land rich, but money poor."

 

[MattFancy]

As mentioned in I think episode 8 - being found guilty on charge 1 made everything else meaningless. Guilty on that alone meant life in prison. Not really a compromise to find him guilty of one thing that puts him in prison for life but not another that does the same thing. I just think they didn't produce enough evidence to show he did in fact "mutilate" her.

But then Brendan was found guilty of that charge.

If you're saying he murdered her, but didn't burn her body, then who burned the body? Brendan?

Well, he confessed to it.

Maybe I missed that part, but he specifically said that he burned the body and not Steven?

Either way, I definitely think the jury compromised on that charge. If you say he was guilty of the murder and was seen as the main mastermind behind the whole thing, how do you not find him guilty of mutilating the body also? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you're saying they didn't find him guilty of it because it didn't matter because of the 1st degree murder charge, then why find him guilty on the firearm one too?

What was that charge?

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

Probably. But that's my point, if you're saying once the 1st charge was guilty, the other 2 didn't matter, then why find him guilty of the one that was the least amount of time?

 

[playin4beer]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

I don't think they wanted to come across and say they were "poor", it's just that whatever "wealth" they had wasn't liquid. When they needed to hire a good defense team (or was it to pay his bond, I'm not sure), they attempted to put up the property and the court wouldn't let them. Sure, they had "assets", but it wasn't cash.

No different from lots of folks who live around me who inherited family property (land). They are "land rich, but money poor."

Scrap car bodies are as "liquid" as cash... The land, buildings and equipment?? Sure, that's a little tougher.. but they are sitting on over $500,000 worth of scrap that can be turned into money very quickly..

Now, I'd assume the old man didn't want to "liquidate" his entire yard.. but if he wanted to, he could have.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Can someone just tell me the ending?

 

[parrot]

As mentioned in I think episode 8 - being found guilty on charge 1 made everything else meaningless. Guilty on that alone meant life in prison. Not really a compromise to find him guilty of one thing that puts him in prison for life but not another that does the same thing. I just think they didn't produce enough evidence to show he did in fact "mutilate" her.

But then Brendan was found guilty of that charge.

If you're saying he murdered her, but didn't burn her body, then who burned the body? Brendan?

Well, he confessed to it.

Maybe I missed that part, but he specifically said that he burned the body and not Steven?

Either way, I definitely think the jury compromised on that charge. If you say he was guilty of the murder and was seen as the main mastermind behind the whole thing, how do you not find him guilty of mutilating the body also? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you're saying they didn't find him guilty of it because it didn't matter because of the 1st degree murder charge, then why find him guilty on the firearm one too?

What was that charge?

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

Possession of a firearm by a convicted felon is pretty major I believe.

 

[SIDA!]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

I don't think they wanted to come across and say they were "poor", it's just that whatever "wealth" they had wasn't liquid. When they needed to hire a good defense team (or was it to pay his bond, I'm not sure), they attempted to put up the property and the court wouldn't let them. Sure, they had "assets", but it wasn't cash.No different from lots of folks who live around me who inherited family property (land). They are "land rich, but money poor."

Scrap car bodies are as "liquid" as cash... The land, buildings and equipment?? Sure, that's a little tougher.. but they are sitting on over $500,000 worth of scrap that can be turned into money very quickly..Now, I'd assume the old man didn't want to "liquidate" his entire yard.. but if he wanted to, he could have.

Not a salvage yard expert, but if he did that and put the money up. ..he would literally have no means to support his family, right?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Can someone just tell me the ending?

It was all made up, like Blair Witch

 

[playin4beer]

I'm only through episode 2 so far, but the thing that gets me is, these people aren't "poor".

They look poor, talk poor, live poor, dress poor and are certainly stupid, but not poor. It's a little embarrassing to admit, but Steven's dad reminds

me a lot of my gramps. Always greasy hands, dirty fingernails, suspenders and a crop top. But he had coffee cans all around stuffed full

of $100 bills.. Didn't believe in banks...

Avery's Auto Salvage is HUGE.. around approx 2500 cars on site.. that's enormous. I can't remember what scrap steel was in 2005, but

at a normal price $250 a ton, they had ballpark $750,000 sitting in scrap steel. That doesn't take into account the property, buildings or

heavy equipment.. Hell, we paid $80,000 for our Volvo loader alone.

Just an observation from a another "junkyard" guy.. That angle is what makes this story so fascinating to me...

I don't think they wanted to come across and say they were "poor", it's just that whatever "wealth" they had wasn't liquid. When they needed to hire a good defense team (or was it to pay his bond, I'm not sure), they attempted to put up the property and the court wouldn't let them. Sure, they had "assets", but it wasn't cash.No different from lots of folks who live around me who inherited family property (land). They are "land rich, but money poor."

Scrap car bodies are as "liquid" as cash... The land, buildings and equipment?? Sure, that's a little tougher.. but they are sitting on over $500,000 worth of scrap that can be turned into money very quickly..Now, I'd assume the old man didn't want to "liquidate" his entire yard.. but if he wanted to, he could have.

Not a salvage yard expert, but if he did that and put the money up. ..he would literally have no means to support his family, right?

Correct... But it doesn't look like these guys are living high on the hog to begin with.. He wouldn't have had to crush the entire yard.. and most of that stuff looks like it's been sitting there for

30 years.. not much left except scrap. He's a lot like my gramps.. a hoarder when it comes to car bodies.. After so much is gone, scrap them. He could have scrapped half his yard and it

wouldn't make a bit of difference in his everyday living.

 

[Billy Bats]

Apparently the ex boyfriend violated some laws by hacking her phone. Plus he, you know, killed her....maybe.

Pretty cool how he just guessed usernames and passwords to get into her account. "Ah well she's close with her sister so I figured it had something to do with that". Orly?

Him and the brother got awfully jumpy when the reporters asked them about being on the Avery grounds when talking about that chick finding the car in 20 minutes on a 40 acre lot filled with thousands of cars. Divine intervention, yeah.

 

[SIDA!]

Yeah, I was looking at the aerials and of it during the winter and was wondering what was left of value on those cars, anyway.

 

[General Malaise]

Apparently the ex boyfriend violated some laws by hacking her phone. Plus he, you know, killed her....maybe.

Pretty cool how he just guessed usernames and passwords to get into her account. "Ah well she's close with her sister so I figured it had something to do with that". Orly?

Him and the brother got awfully jumpy when the reporters asked them about being on the Avery grounds when talking about that chick finding the car in 20 minutes on a 40 acre lot filled with thousands of cars. Divine intervention, yeah.

Yup, he got very defensive very quick. Thought that was telling.

 

[Sabertooth]

Can someone just tell me the ending?

Give it a few years.

 

[Sabertooth]

Apparently the ex boyfriend violated some laws by hacking her phone. Plus he, you know, killed her....maybe.

Pretty cool how he just guessed usernames and passwords to get into her account. "Ah well she's close with her sister so I figured it had something to do with that". Orly?

Him and the brother got awfully jumpy when the reporters asked them about being on the Avery grounds when talking about that chick finding the car in 20 minutes on a 40 acre lot filled with thousands of cars. Divine intervention, yeah.

Yeah. I noticed that too. They started the old "yeah yeah that's the ticket" routine instantly.

 

[Sabertooth]

Yeah, I was looking at the aerials and of it during the winter and was wondering what was left of value on those cars, anyway.

Who knows? A light here, a bumpe there. Electric door parts, trunk parts, radio, could be anything really. I've gone to the junk yard many times when I was younger for parts. Much cheaper.

 

[Max Power]

Apparently the ex boyfriend violated some laws by hacking her phone. Plus he, you know, killed her....maybe.

Pretty cool how he just guessed usernames and passwords to get into her account. "Ah well she's close with her sister so I figured it had something to do with that". Orly?

Him and the brother got awfully jumpy when the reporters asked them about being on the Avery grounds when talking about that chick finding the car in 20 minutes on a 40 acre lot filled with thousands of cars. Divine intervention, yeah.

This part bothered me so much. That was obviously two guys trying to get their story straight while being filmed.

 

[matttyl]

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

Probably. But that's my point, if you're saying once the 1st charge was guilty, the other 2 didn't matter, then why find him guilty of the one that was the least amount of time?

Because if you found him guilty of the first - the third was obvious (he shot her, at least according to the prosecution). They didn't produce enough evidence for the 2nd charge.

 

[matttyl]

As mentioned in I think episode 8 - being found guilty on charge 1 made everything else meaningless. Guilty on that alone meant life in prison. Not really a compromise to find him guilty of one thing that puts him in prison for life but not another that does the same thing. I just think they didn't produce enough evidence to show he did in fact "mutilate" her.

But then Brendan was found guilty of that charge.

If you're saying he murdered her, but didn't burn her body, then who burned the body? Brendan?

Well, he confessed to it.

Maybe I missed that part, but he specifically said that he burned the body and not Steven?

Either way, I definitely think the jury compromised on that charge. If you say he was guilty of the murder and was seen as the main mastermind behind the whole thing, how do you not find him guilty of mutilating the body also? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you're saying they didn't find him guilty of it because it didn't matter because of the 1st degree murder charge, then why find him guilty on the firearm one too?

What was that charge?

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

Possession of a firearm by a convicted felon is pretty major I believe.

What felonies were on his record at the time (before anything involving Teresa)?

 

[MattFancy]

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

Probably. But that's my point, if you're saying once the 1st charge was guilty, the other 2 didn't matter, then why find him guilty of the one that was the least amount of time?

Because if you found him guilty of the first - the third was obvious (he shot her, at least according to the prosecution). They didn't produce enough evidence for the 2nd charge.

I dunno, we'll have to agree to disagree here. I just don't get how saying he's killed her, with a gun he shouldn't have had, but he didn't burn the body, even though he had a bonfire that night. Something just doesn't add up other than the jury agreeing to murder but not mutilating the body.

 

[matttyl]

Think it was possession of a firearm or something like that

What's that, 30 day in jail at most?

Probably. But that's my point, if you're saying once the 1st charge was guilty, the other 2 didn't matter, then why find him guilty of the one that was the least amount of time?

Because if you found him guilty of the first - the third was obvious (he shot her, at least according to the prosecution). They didn't produce enough evidence for the 2nd charge.

I dunno, we'll have to agree to disagree here. I just don't get how saying he's killed her, with a gun he shouldn't have had, but he didn't burn the body, even though he had a bonfire that night. Something just doesn't add up other than the jury agreeing to murder but not mutilating the body.

Well, nothing in this case really "adds up". Apparently the prosecution presented a good enough argument that he killed her (via the gun), but they didn't have enough evidence to show that it was him that burned her (maybe something to do with bones being found at 3 locations)?