matttyl
Footballguy
If I read it right Steven's middle name is Alan I think, just spelled differently from his dad if I recall. That hit me as really odd, considering the last name of the guy who actually did the initial rape was Allen.
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Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter The Flying Elvis
- Start date
chet
Footballguy
SIDA!
Footballguy
Can we get a check in here:
A. Does anyone believe that Avery (with or without the help of Brendan) killed Teresa in either the garage, trailer or both?
B. Does anyone believe Avery killed Teresa (with or without the help of Brendan) but just not in the way the prosecution said?
C. Does anyone believe Avery did not kill Teresa?
I am in the B or C camp...but probably leaning toward B. Unless anyone here is in the A camp...maybe we should move the story forward and discuss scenarios B or C.
A. Does anyone believe that Avery (with or without the help of Brendan) killed Teresa in either the garage, trailer or both?
B. Does anyone believe Avery killed Teresa (with or without the help of Brendan) but just not in the way the prosecution said?
C. Does anyone believe Avery did not kill Teresa?
I am in the B or C camp...but probably leaning toward B. Unless anyone here is in the A camp...maybe we should move the story forward and discuss scenarios B or C.
Dickies
Footballguy
I am in the C camp with maybe 5-10% in the B camp. Every piece of evidence has loads of doubt associated with it. He has zero motive and there isn't a shred of evidence that indicated Avery committed the crime in the way that the prosecution suggests. The little DNA evidence they did find has extremely fishy circumstances surrounding it.SIDA! said:
chet
Footballguy
I believe C but really want A given the outcome. It pisses me off that this type of travesty can happen.
SIDA!
Footballguy
What would be some alternative scenarios that make sense to you as to how this crime went down?
I lean toward Avery probably doing it...but I think the biggest thing that trips me up is that you do not find her DNA anywhere except in the car and bones in the fire pit. In light of the fact that they had about 10 days to search every inch of the property...do I have to conclude that he somehow committed the murder off the property (presumably by somehow sticking her in the van and driving off...only to come back) or that he committed the murder somewhere else on the property and decided to load her into the van for some reason...before taking her out to burn her?
parrot
Footballguy
I think he probably killed her. I don't think there's any way it happened in the house. I think it may have occurred in the garage. I don't trust much of what Brendan said but it does seem like he may have helped Steven clean up in the garage with bleach. I know there's a lot of talk about blood spatter, but how much spatter is there really from a .22?SIDA! said:
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree.
SIDA!
Footballguy
There were numerous shells in the garage. Ignoring the whole blood cleanup for a second and assume that they did clean the blood up.
You are of the opinion that they left all the shells there anyway and you are also of the opinion that a bullet found four months later was just missed by Avery and Dassey and the numerous law enforcement searchers?
Are you of the opinion that she was only shot once and not more than once and that the only shot (a .22) went through and through her head?
Because it is my understanding that no bullets fired into her body (if there were more than one shot) was ever found inside the fire pit.
SIDA!
Footballguy
It was alleged that she was stabbed and had her throat slit in the bedroom after being raped and then taken to the garage and shot.
Dickies
Footballguy
IMHO, alternative scenarios are not necessary. People should be presumed innocent and the prosecution did nothing to change that presumption.
This link provides a pretty decent theory about Tadych and Bobby Dassey as potential suspects. Unfortunately I fear that because the police did not investigate any alternative suspects that all hope in finding the real killer(s) is lost.
parrot
Footballguy
I was speaking off the cuff and haven't necessarily really formed a full opinion on everything. I would have to rewatch to see what the forensics said about the bullet evidence and how many times she might have been shot. It does seem possible to me that the bullet could have been missed originally in a cluttered garage. If she was on her back and he fired down it seems like blood and gore would be relatively confined but the bullet might go anywhere. I don't think there was any reason to shoot her a double-digit number of times, it's unnecessarily risky and would just add to the evidence already present. The shells, at least some, may have already been there, so there was really no need to pick them up.
I believe Brendan's mother quoted Brendan as saying the bleach on his jeans was from helping Steven clean his garage. That's a pretty big sticking point for me.
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jamny
Footballguy
Hillary weighs in:
Asked by an attendee at a town hall event in Iowa on Tuesday whether she was familiar with the controversial case, which has sparked intense debate in the national media and online, Clinton shook her head to indicate that she had never heard of it. And due in part to that lack of familiarity with the documentary, Clinton appeared to believe that the case was another example of the criminal justice system being unfair to African-Americans.
“I think we do have a systemic problem in our criminal justice system,” Clinton said, adding that “it is true that there’s enough evidence to show that if you are an African-American man you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated for doing the same thing as a white man. And there’s just a lot of evidence of that. And of course, if you are poor that makes it even more likely.”
Asked by an attendee at a town hall event in Iowa on Tuesday whether she was familiar with the controversial case, which has sparked intense debate in the national media and online, Clinton shook her head to indicate that she had never heard of it. And due in part to that lack of familiarity with the documentary, Clinton appeared to believe that the case was another example of the criminal justice system being unfair to African-Americans.
“I think we do have a systemic problem in our criminal justice system,” Clinton said, adding that “it is true that there’s enough evidence to show that if you are an African-American man you are more likely to be arrested, charged, convicted and incarcerated for doing the same thing as a white man. And there’s just a lot of evidence of that. And of course, if you are poor that makes it even more likely.”
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
SIDA!
Footballguy
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Max Power
Footballguy
http://onmilwaukee.com/movies/articles/makingamurdererjurorvolunteer.html
UPDATE: Steven Avery juror Carl Wardman was an official and active volunteer for the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department during 2007, the year of the Avery trial, Sheriff Robert Hermann confirmed to OnMilwaukee on Wednesday.
Not only was a juror the father of a Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department officer, he was also an active volunteer.
Asked whether Wardman would have interacted or gotten assignments from Andrew Colburn or James Lenk back in 2007, Hermann said it was possible that Wardman would have interacted with Colburn on patrol. He said it was unlikely he would have interacted with Lenk.
UPDATE: Steven Avery juror Carl Wardman was an official and active volunteer for the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department during 2007, the year of the Avery trial, Sheriff Robert Hermann confirmed to OnMilwaukee on Wednesday.
Not only was a juror the father of a Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department officer, he was also an active volunteer.
Asked whether Wardman would have interacted or gotten assignments from Andrew Colburn or James Lenk back in 2007, Hermann said it was possible that Wardman would have interacted with Colburn on patrol. He said it was unlikely he would have interacted with Lenk.
gianmarco
Footballguy
While I feel awful for Teresa's family, there is something so unsettling about the brother that I really disliked the brother after watching that series. Whether intentional or not by the filmmakers, that's one of the things that bothered me the most about how I felt about the people involved in this. I should be feeling badly for him and there's something about him that I truly don't like and don't trust even though I can't come up with a scenario that has him involved in her death.
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Cjw_55106
Footballguy
You have to love that she can't waste a chance to get her agenda in even when she has no clue what she's talking about.
parrot
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Of course he is. He's a lawyer.
Mors Venit
Footballguy
Dont forget the bleach stains on his clothes. Nobody walks around the midwest with bleach stains on their clothes.Cjw_55106 said:
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SIDA!
Footballguy
I just posted something about how these volunteer police nuthuggers think cops can do no wrong..then I read the article...and it was quite interesting to hear what this guy had to say during his screening answers.
Max Power
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Jury selection is very challenging, especially in a case like this where, per the documentary, so many potential jurors said they had developed some opinion of the case. I can only imagine that when it came time to use their strikes the defense didn't have enough strikes to eliminate everybody they wanted. Regarding why one may keep this guy:
1. His answer that he'd experienced police lie before is very positive for the defense. Most people simply don't want to believe the police lie. This guy has experienced it. That's huge.
2. Most defense attorneys (including myself) actually want "good cops" on a jury during a trial where the defense is along the line of the state cannot prove the case because the investigation was faulty. Generally, good cops hate bad cops and will want to punish them with their verdict.
Of course, this guy was so intertwined and personally invested with the agency in question I'm admittedly surprised he wasn't struck for cause by the judge.
shadyridr
Footballguy
that was his father
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Punitive damages!
BeTheMatch
Footballguy
Maybe Obama will pardon them both on his way out the door.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
You really are a doosh.
A guy who believes everything he sees in movies.
Hey Sherlock, please point out where I said anything close to that.
:it'sstillrealtomedamnit:
Wrigley
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Made his voice sound effeminate.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
At least they didn't make him look like he had a patch of hair on the front of his head when he was obviously bald. That guy should sue everyone he knows for not holding him down and cutting it.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
A. .001%SIDA! said:
B. 50%
C. 50%
Das Boot
Footballguy
TMZ has solved an unsolved mystery in "Making A Murderer" ... who the heck is this unidentified "international recording artist" on Steven Avery's jury?!
Turns out ... the international recording artist is just a small town guitarist.
Richard Mahler, the juror who was excused for a family emergency, tells TMZ he's the mystery juror and is NOT an international star by any stretch. He's in a band that sang the National Anthem at a NASCAR event and opened for a couple of country acts in Wisconsin -- nothing outside the U.S.
Mahler says his band, The Rick Raybine Band, has had some small town success but has never released an album.
As for how he was mislabeled ... some reporter said he was an international artist and everyone just took it at face value.
Turns out ... the international recording artist is just a small town guitarist.
Richard Mahler, the juror who was excused for a family emergency, tells TMZ he's the mystery juror and is NOT an international star by any stretch. He's in a band that sang the National Anthem at a NASCAR event and opened for a couple of country acts in Wisconsin -- nothing outside the U.S.
Mahler says his band, The Rick Raybine Band, has had some small town success but has never released an album.
As for how he was mislabeled ... some reporter said he was an international artist and everyone just took it at face value.
SIDA!
Footballguy
Holy ####! I put out a BOLO and Mr. Pack and KratzPrawn show up within minutes of each other.You really are a doosh.
A guy who believes everything he sees in movies.
Hey Sherlock, please point out where I said anything close to that.
:it'sstillrealtomedamnit:
Are they the same person?
For those keeping score at home...both refuse to answer the following question:
Do you think Avery killed Teresa in the trailer and/or garage?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Where would I fit if I think he is guilty, but I am unsure about where he killed her exactly on that property and I think the only reason they rolled with the garage/trailer deal was because his nephew stated that stuff and they had to present something to the jury.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
SIDA! said:
SIDA!
Footballguy
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Someone in this thread has a areal job and doesn't hang out here every minute of his life.avoiding injuries said:
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