Making A Murderer (Netflix) (Spoilers) (2 Viewers)

[shadyridr]

It is interesting to me that most people from Wisconsin that post in this thread do not like the documentary and feel that Steve Avery is guilty. I did not follow this case and watching the documentary was the first I heard about it. Obviously the local media in Wisconsin was very anti Steve Avery

This is the thing I find most idiotic about their opinions. They say the documentary is biased towards Avery and then go on the use all their local news reports as evidence he is guilty as if they aren't slanted towards making him look guilty. So they are doing the same ####### thing they are accusing the documentary of.

 

[mr roboto]

It is interesting to me that most people from Wisconsin that post in this thread do not like the documentary and feel that Steve Avery is guilty. I did not follow this case and watching the documentary was the first I heard about it. Obviously the local media in Wisconsin was very anti Steve Avery

This is the thing I find most idiotic about their opinions. They say the documentary is biased towards Avery and then go on the use all their local news reports as evidence he is guilty as if they aren't slanted towards making him look guilty. So they are doing the same ####### thing they are accusing the documentary of.

Not necessarily. You think just because a source is from Wisconsin means it's biased? That's pretty extreme.

 

[shadyridr]

It is interesting to me that most people from Wisconsin that post in this thread do not like the documentary and feel that Steve Avery is guilty. I did not follow this case and watching the documentary was the first I heard about it. Obviously the local media in Wisconsin was very anti Steve Avery

This is the thing I find most idiotic about their opinions. They say the documentary is biased towards Avery and then go on the use all their local news reports as evidence he is guilty as if they aren't slanted towards making him look guilty. So they are doing the same ####### thing they are accusing the documentary of.

Not necessarily. You think just because a source is from Wisconsin means it's biased? That's pretty extreme.

No I am saying most news reports are biased not only those from Wisconsin. And this case wasn't a huge story nationally but was apparently a huge story locally. That's why I mentioned local news reports.

 

[mr roboto]

Keep in mind - if your first real exposure to this trial is the documentary you are starting from a defense-centric point of view. That's not necessarily wrong but to think otherwise is to be blind to your own biased sources which would be sad.

The people locally heard about it as it transpired. Meaning SA was the prime suspect, last person to see her alive, with a real criminal record, car on property etc. Then the Dassey confession, then the bullet. Then the press conference. Then 2 high priced lawyers come in and their main case is that cops planted evidence.

I can see why someone who witnessed the case in real time would t have the same feelings that some yahoo from the Internet in Brooklyn does. And let me say this - Midwesterners (and especially small town folks) ####### hate left and right coast condescension. So take that bull#### elsewhere.

IOW watching the doc doesn't make you more impartial than having watched this unfold living in Milwaukee or Madison or Appleton.

EDITED because RUSF18 pointed out an error I made.

 

[mr roboto]

This thread and that documentary tell me all I need to know about never stepping foot in Wisconsin

This is the bull#### in case you weren't aware.

 

[shadyridr]

Keep in mind - if your first real exposure to this trial is the documentary you are starting from a defense-centric point of view. That's not necessarily wrong but to think otherwise is to be blind to your own biased sources which would be sad.

Nobody is arguing this point but the Wisconsinites then REFUSE to watch the documentary

 

[RUSF18]

Keep in mind - if your first real exposure to this trial is the documentary you are starting from a defense-centric point of view. That's not necessarily wrong but to think otherwise is to be blind to your own biased sources which would be sad.

The makers of the doc were there to film something very pro-innocence project. They didn't know the murder was going to happen. Literally, the doc was initially started just to cover the original SA story. Then they got 'lucky' (hate to use that word but you know what I mean) with the SA arrest.

That's not true.

In 2005, Ms. Ricciardi, 45, and Ms. Demos, 42, were a pair of graduate film students at Columbia University who had been dating for two years. In the midst of planning their individual thesis work, they read about Mr. Avery’s case in an article in The Times and thought it could be an opportunity to shoot a documentary.

That December, the two traveled to Manitowoc, Wis. “We rented a car and we borrowed a friend’s camera,” Ms. Demos said. “It was really to test the waters and see if there was a story.”

They arrived at a preliminary court hearing overflowing with the news media and onlookers. After his release, Mr. Avery had become a local celebrity. His rearrest for murder made him notorious. At the hearing, Mr. Avery was steadfast about his innocence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/21/arts/television/behind-making-a-murderer-a-new-documentary-series-on-netflix.html

 

[mr roboto]

Thanks for the clarification RUSF. I will edit my post.

 

[Statorama]

It is interesting to me that most people from Wisconsin that post in this thread do not like the documentary and feel that Steve Avery is guilty. I did not follow this case and watching the documentary was the first I heard about it. Obviously the local media in Wisconsin was very anti Steve Avery

This is the thing I find most idiotic about their opinions. They say the documentary is biased towards Avery and then go on the use all their local news reports as evidence he is guilty as if they aren't slanted towards making him look guilty. So they are doing the same ####### thing they are accusing the documentary of.

Also, I've never heard anyone say the filmmakers "made up" the information they provide. A lot of people want to just bury their heads in the sand and pretend these truths don't exist.

 

[TheMagus]

What's interesting about all this is I left the documentary thinking Avery probably did it and the police planted some evidence to shore up a conviction.

The more I read after the case, the more I think he was actually framed and in a very insidious manner.

Those bones..... ####. The documentary barely touched on that. But a normal bonfire would have left a whole skeleton there, not just scraps. #### That would have had to be one crazy ### bonfire.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Not a fan of the piling on Wisconsites here. I think their opinions are obviously going to be a little biased and defensive, but it's totally natural to be that way. I'm as skeptical of law enforcement and prosecutors as anyone I know but whenever I've heard about some alleged injustice in my hometown- or anything that is remotely negative about my hometown, really- my first reaction is always to get defensive. I have to remind myself that if it can happen elsewhere it can happen here too.

Of course if they read and cite approvingly that rant from the right-wing radio station, all bets are off

 

[bshell27]

The Kevin Fox story was near me and I was completely biased against him based on media reports. I can't say I blame Wisconsin locals. Interesting he is now using the same attorney as Fox.

 

[Joe T]

I don't know if he is guilty or not but I do know that this documentary is completely slanted towards the defense side of things.

I am from the Milwaukee area and it is interesting that a lot of media types from the newspapers and tv come up with the same conclusion that there was a whole lot more involved than the 10 hours of what "Making a Murderer" shows the public.

Here is a link from a local reporter who provides what was left out of the documentary.

http://www.newstalk1130.com/onair/common-sense-central-37717/rebutting-a-murderer-episode-1-14260554/

I seriously think King Prawn may have written that piece and then came here with an alias account and posted the link. So terribly dumb.

 

[SWC]

Keep in mind - if your first real exposure to this trial is the documentary you are starting from a defense-centric point of view. That's not necessarily wrong but to think otherwise is to be blind to your own biased sources which would be sad.

Nobody is arguing this point but the Wisconsinites then REFUSE to watch the documentary

i have been watching it and i am about as scanny as they come brohan but it gave my wife a nightmare so we are only through episode three take that to the bank

 

[RUSF18]

Not a fan of the piling on Wisconsites here. I think their opinions are obviously going to be a little biased and defensive

I think if those posts only were a little biased and defensive, we'd cut them slack.

 

[parrot]

What's interesting about all this is I left the documentary thinking Avery probably did it and the police planted some evidence to shore up a conviction.

The more I read after the case, the more I think he was actually framed and in a very insidious manner.

Those bones..... ####. The documentary barely touched on that. But a normal bonfire would have left a whole skeleton there, not just scraps. #### That would have had to be one crazy ### bonfire.

Do you wonder WHY the doc barely touched on that? I mean Strang says now that the supposed intensity of the fire is the smoking gun, but they hardly touch it in the doc? That seems strange with their defense-centric stance doesn't it?

There is a lot of speculation on the fire. Do people really have a lot of experience on how hot a fire it takes to burn a body and how hot a bonfire actually gets?

In Dassey's trial, the arson investigator testified that there were a minimum of 5 tires burned, and he was comfortable saying more than 5, not to mention the van/suv seat that Brendan mentioned. That's a pretty substantial amount of fuel, and the seat may have worked to contain the heat. There were also plenty of accelerants around that might have been used as well as a charred rake and shovel on the site, quite possibly used to break up the bones.

 

[SWC]

for you coasties saying you are not going to set foot in big whiskey that is aok we got more than enough fibs than we want any old how take that to the bank flatlander bromigos

 

[Statorama]

I keep waiting for Trump to say he'd use a presidential pardon on him

 

[SWC]

hell he might be trumps vp bromigos

 

[shadyridr]

Ok I'll caveat my post to say I will never visit Wisconsin except to visit SWC

 

[SWC]

Ok I'll caveat my post to say I will never visit Wisconsin except to visit SWC

yaaaaa dont get strange take that to the bank brohan

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

I got my ### kicked in Wisconsin once.

 

[mr roboto]

I got my ### kicked in Wisconsin once.

Country strong ain't a rumor.

 

[The Gator]

I'm not giving up The Great Taste...I'll suffer through the 70 IQ furleys

 

[17seconds]

American Movie

...another slice of Wisconsin life

 

[Billy Bats]

Avery filed a new appeal yesterday. Surpringly, he fired Strang and Buting claiming their incompetence.

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/01/12/steven-avery-prison-appeal-conviction/

 

[SacramentoBob]

It's not so much that the media was biased, but most of the reporting probably was based on what the prosecution was giving to the press. I think it's clear that their theory of murder didn't fit the evidence, but the story is what got told in the media and influenced the public's opinion.

 

[Statorama]

Seems like we're just 8 million in seed money away from a new Nick Cage movie

To the kickstarter!

 

[shadyridr]

Avery filed a new appeal yesterday. Surpringly, he fired Strang and Buting claiming their incompetence.

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/01/12/steven-avery-prison-appeal-conviction/

don't think the article means strang and buting

 

[Binky The Doormat]

American Movie

...another slice of Wisconsin life

Love that movie.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Avery filed a new appeal yesterday. Surpringly, he fired Strang and Buting claiming their incompetence.

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/01/12/steven-avery-prison-appeal-conviction/

These lawsuits he keeps filing are weird. The one for the gas in his car and the john doe. The third case simply says

03-28-2012 Petition: Additional Text:for Writ of Mandamus

In each one it also looks like he asks the judge to recuse himself.

 

[SacramentoBob]

Looks like he's filing a bunch of #### on his own. That likely won't end well.

 

[Max Power]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

 

[avoiding injuries]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

Where was SA on Nov 4-5? Was the property still closed to all the family?Very interesting.

 

[Dickies]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

Of course you don't see it, the car is covered by branches

 

[SWC]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

can one you brochachos go way out on a limb and pretend i am not real smart and explain this to me like i am not smart thanks in advance and take it to the bank for whoever does

 

[shadyridr]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

these the same guys that identified every suspicious person except the actual Boston marathon bombers the days after the attack?

 

[shadyridr]

Who's to say the overhead footage in the documentary is from that day? Seems like a really dumb conclusion to come to.

 

[TheMagus]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

these the same guys that identified every suspicious person except the actual Boston marathon bombers the days after the attack?

I was just going to post that. Didn't they post all over the internet they had found the bomber with his name and pictures, who was just some random Arab dude? They may have actually gone after a couple people who have now been google-####ed for all of eternity.

I think we should leave the sleuthing to the experts.

 

[TheMagus]

What's interesting about all this is I left the documentary thinking Avery probably did it and the police planted some evidence to shore up a conviction.

The more I read after the case, the more I think he was actually framed and in a very insidious manner.

Those bones..... ####. The documentary barely touched on that. But a normal bonfire would have left a whole skeleton there, not just scraps. #### That would have had to be one crazy ### bonfire.

Do you wonder WHY the doc barely touched on that? I mean Strang says now that the supposed intensity of the fire is the smoking gun, but they hardly touch it in the doc? That seems strange with their defense-centric stance doesn't it?

There is a lot of speculation on the fire. Do people really have a lot of experience on how hot a fire it takes to burn a body and how hot a bonfire actually gets?

In Dassey's trial, the arson investigator testified that there were a minimum of 5 tires burned, and he was comfortable saying more than 5, not to mention the van/suv seat that Brendan mentioned. That's a pretty substantial amount of fuel, and the seat may have worked to contain the heat. There were also plenty of accelerants around that might have been used as well as a charred rake and shovel on the site, quite possibly used to break up the bones.

This is true. But the fact that it is coming from Strang led me to give weight it.

I wish we could get the full court transcripts. Although I can't think of many less productive things I could do with my time.

 

[Dickies]

Who's to say the overhead footage in the documentary is from that day? Seems like a really dumb conclusion to come to.

Yea, until the footage is proven to be taken from the day before the vehicle is found there is not much here.

 

[avoiding injuries]

reddit might have cracked the case. They just need to confirm the date of the aerial flyover footage of Avery's salvage yard that was used in the doc.

Theory -

Sheriff's footage was used in the documentary. Taken 4NOV

http://imgur.com/WoMbyR6

No Rav 4 parked in the location the vehicle was found

http://imgur.com/wqwIuFT

Second angle

http://imgur.com/GnGNaic

Jesus lady's photo on NOV 5th

http://i.imgur.com/o1fngSK.jpg

interesting...

these the same guys that identified every suspicious person except the actual Boston marathon bombers the days after the attack?

I was just going to post that. Didn't they post all over the internet they had found the bomber with his name and pictures, who was just some random Arab dude? They may have actually gone after a couple people who have now been google-####ed for all of eternity.

I think we should leave the sleuthing to the experts.

To be fair, they already tried that.

 

[cockroach]

Who's to say the overhead footage in the documentary is from that day? Seems like a really dumb conclusion to come to.

The person who posted it didn't come to that conclusion. In fact, the opposite:

"Now this seems to me to indicate that it is SO obvious that it probably did take place after the RAV4 was found by the search party. But I thought I'd share the pics for discussion. I'll try and contact the doc makers to see if I can pin down a date. - Aaron"

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/40nsz1/clear_image_of_yard_during_investigation_rav4/

 

[The Kerminator]

Looks like he's filing a bunch of #### on his own. That likely won't end well.

http://www.wisn.com/news/steven-avery-files-new-appeal/37399338

http://www.wisn.com/blob/view/-/37399772/data/1/-/2p5uywz/-/Steven-Avery-appeal.pdf

Steven Avery said authorities used an improper search warrant and that any evidence found as a result "is clearly 'FRUIT OF THE POISONIOUS TREE.'"

The motion, filed Monday, is filled with misspellings, grammatical errors and meandering language.

It says, the judge "inartfully circomnavigated around irrefutable, uncontrovertable evidence in Avery’s favour.”

In the motion, Avery also blames the lawyers who've become media heroes in "Making a Murderer," saying, "If not for the ineffective assistance of all six trial and appellate counsels Avery would have been a free man."

 

[mr roboto]

all 6 were terrible!!!

 

[mr roboto]

Didn't he kind of insinuate he'd kill himself if convicted again?

 

[cockroach]

Didn't he kind of insinuate he'd kill himself if convicted again?

Also when his GF left him, don't be strange.

 

[cockroach]

On a pretty much totally unrelated, but similar note, I clicked on some youtube video that said "most insane news video ever!!!!!!" and fell into this weird rabbit hole that sort of reminded me of this documentary. So weird:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkK-gI7xAP4

 

[parasaurolophus]

What's interesting about all this is I left the documentary thinking Avery probably did it and the police planted some evidence to shore up a conviction.

The more I read after the case, the more I think he was actually framed and in a very insidious manner.

Those bones..... ####. The documentary barely touched on that. But a normal bonfire would have left a whole skeleton there, not just scraps. #### That would have had to be one crazy ### bonfire.

Do you wonder WHY the doc barely touched on that? I mean Strang says now that the supposed intensity of the fire is the smoking gun, but they hardly touch it in the doc? That seems strange with their defense-centric stance doesn't it?

There is a lot of speculation on the fire. Do people really have a lot of experience on how hot a fire it takes to burn a body and how hot a bonfire actually gets?

In Dassey's trial, the arson investigator testified that there were a minimum of 5 tires burned, and he was comfortable saying more than 5, not to mention the van/suv seat that Brendan mentioned. That's a pretty substantial amount of fuel, and the seat may have worked to contain the heat. There were also plenty of accelerants around that might have been used as well as a charred rake and shovel on the site, quite possibly used to break up the bones.

This is true. But the fact that it is coming from Strang led me to give weight it.

I wish we could get the full court transcripts. Although I can't think of many less productive things I could do with my time.

According to wikipedia cremation is done at 1600-1800 degrees Glass melts at about 1600. These guys are melting wine bottles in a fairly mediocre size fire.

 

[Billy Bats]

What's interesting about all this is I left the documentary thinking Avery probably did it and the police planted some evidence to shore up a conviction.

The more I read after the case, the more I think he was actually framed and in a very insidious manner.

Those bones..... ####. The documentary barely touched on that. But a normal bonfire would have left a whole skeleton there, not just scraps. #### That would have had to be one crazy ### bonfire.

Do you wonder WHY the doc barely touched on that? I mean Strang says now that the supposed intensity of the fire is the smoking gun, but they hardly touch it in the doc? That seems strange with their defense-centric stance doesn't it?

There is a lot of speculation on the fire. Do people really have a lot of experience on how hot a fire it takes to burn a body and how hot a bonfire actually gets?

In Dassey's trial, the arson investigator testified that there were a minimum of 5 tires burned, and he was comfortable saying more than 5, not to mention the van/suv seat that Brendan mentioned. That's a pretty substantial amount of fuel, and the seat may have worked to contain the heat. There were also plenty of accelerants around that might have been used as well as a charred rake and shovel on the site, quite possibly used to break up the bones.

This is true. But the fact that it is coming from Strang led me to give weight it.

I wish we could get the full court transcripts. Although I can't think of many less productive things I could do with my time.

According to wikipedia cremation is done at 1600-1800 degrees Glass melts at about 1600. These guys are melting wine bottles in a fairly mediocre size fire.

And it takes an hour per 100lbs. in an enclosed furnace. Even if a bonfire can get that hot. do you think it can sustain 1600-1800 degrees for over an hour straight out in the open while needing to be fed to keep the fire going?