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Mangini Fired (1 Viewer)

would holmgren come back to the sideline?

This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
would holmgren come back to the sideline?

This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position
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I think after beating the Saints and Patriots in back to back games, there was some thought that Cleveland was better than its record, but things really fell off a cliff from there. Not sure how you can fairly characterize this team as overachieving. They were 5-11, has the 2nd worst offense in the league, and lost 6 of their last 8 and all of their final 4 games.
 
Too bad...they were making nice strides. Mangini gets a lot of heat on these boards, but he is not that bad of a coach. He establishes a nice running game (Hillis, Harrison, Thomas Jones) and while it seems that he has struggled this past year, he was coaching in a tough division and rolled out a decent product. Holmgren is no dummy; I doubt he comes back to the field, but I also think he has someone in mind as a replacement. I have an odd feeling that Cleveland may win the Gruden/Cowher sweepstakes...

 
Jason Wood said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
would holmgren come back to the sideline?

This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position
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I think after beating the Saints and Patriots in back to back games, there was some thought that Cleveland was better than its record, but things really fell off a cliff from there. Not sure how you can fairly characterize this team as overachieving. They were 5-11, has the 2nd worst offense in the league, and lost 6 of their last 8 and all of their final 4 games.
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thats over acheiving. Seriously with McCoy/Delhomme/Wallace at QB this is a 2 win team at best.
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
would holmgren come back to the sideline?This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position
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There is a chance Holmgren becomes coach but at almost 63 years of age I'd be surprised if he would want to. Gruden was an assistant with Holmgren in Green Bay as was Marty Mornhinweg (who failed miserably in his two years as Lions Head Coach, 5-27). I think Gruden would be the better choice.John Fox and Bill Cowher (former Browns assistant) are other possibilities but they have no direct ties to Holmgren.The Browns did over acheive at times this year (wins over New England and New Orleans) but they also lost a lot of games in the 4th quarter (TB, KC, Balt, NYJ, Jax). All good teams but they should have won at least a couple of them. Also, losing the last 4 games of the year didn't help.
 
Poor Man-Genius.

I kinda like the guy..... I think he's 10x the coach Herm Edwards is but, that's not saying much.

Hope he lands on his feet. Could also make a good College HC.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
would holmgren come back to the sideline?This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position
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Dude?! How was this a shock?The writing was on the wall from last year, when holmgren had to decide then to keep or fire Manigini after a 5-11 year. You thought he would be safe after another 5-11 year? Holmgren? Hmmm, i don't think he will come back. But people from the coaching tree like Gruden, Morninweig, or wait for it, wait for it....Mooch? will be the next coach there. What about Mora as another possibility?
 
Football Critic said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
would holmgren come back to the sideline?

This is surprising to me actually I thought that the browns overachieved. But Holmgren doesnt have "his guy" in the HC position
Click to expand...
Dude?! How was this a shock?The writing was on the wall from last year, when holmgren had to decide then to keep or fire Manigini after a 5-11 year. You thought he would be safe after another 5-11 year?

Holmgren? Hmmm, i don't think he will come back. But people from the coaching tree like Gruden, Morninweig, or wait for it, wait for it....Mooch? will be the next coach there.

What about Mora as another possibility?
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There was some bad blood in Holmgren's final season and Mora showed how good a coach he isn't. Additionally, Holmgren didn't pick him to succeed him in Seattle, GM Ruskell did (who Holmgren had more than a little bad blood with). I don't see it happening. He'll go with one of his proven prodigies.
 
What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.

 
Don Quixote said:
LaCanfora tweeted that John Fox is likely there.
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You know, i just posted about Gruden/Cowher, but totally forgot that Fox was a candidate LAST year (or at least assumed he would be gone in Carolina and Mangini would be gone in CLE after 2010)...funny thing is, when Fox was let go, he said something to the fact that it was no surprise and he had been planning for it...maybe he knew all along?
 
kneeshooter said:
Reaper said:
Hope he lands on his feet. Could also make a good College HC.
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Interesting - UConn is now looking for a head coach. Mangini grew up and went to college in Hartford and still holds a camp there every year I believe.
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He did (actually went to my college in a town 20 miles south of Hartford). My wife knew him and I believe she said he was from MA (although could be wrong) originally...I think he would be a very good college coach.
 
Tons of speculation that Holmgren is going to coach the team.

link

"Two NFL sources speculated that Holmgren himself would take over as coach, returning to the sideline for the first time since he left as Seattle coach following the 2008 season. It's possible that he would seek to retain defensive coordinator Rob Ryan and special teams coordinator Brad Seely."

"The emergence of rookie Colt McCoy as a potential franchise quarterback influenced Holmgren to consider the job himself."

"If he moves to the sideline, Holmgren would install the West Coast-style offense he learned under Bill Walsh and employed in Green Bay to take the Packers to the playoffs six times in seven seasons as coach in the 1990s. They reached the Super Bowl following the 1996 and 1997 seasons, winning one of them against the Bill Parcells' New England Patriots. Holmgren moved on to Seattle for 10 seasons and took the Seahawks to the Super Bowl following the 2005 season. They lost to Pittsburgh."

"Holmgren has always called the offensive plays as head coach. Haskell could serve again as his offensive coordinator. A source said that Holmgren would have an interest in adding UCLA offensive coordinator Norm Chow, with whom he once worked at Brigham Young University. Another possibility is Miami Dolphins receivers coach Karl Dorrell, said the source."

 
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He definetly wasn't a players coach.

fined a player $1500 for not paying for a water

made players help at his football camp

got a player hurt by letting him practice in cantact drills without pads

cleveland is better off without him

 
Fensalk said:
What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.
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I don't remember (as a Jets fan) Mangini's weakness being poor clock management (although you are talking to a guy who had to endure Herm Edwards, so anything is an improvement). He is set in his ways, so I see the "ability to adjust at halftime" as a major "con" against him. I don't think his talent evaluation is poor...he is responsible for bringing in Thomas Jones (a high-pick bust at the time with just one good year under his belt) to the Jets and trading for Peyton Hillis, when ANYONE could have had him for a song. His biggest whiff was Vernon Gholston...but if you remember, that year the Jets picked 7th...and there were 7 "elite" guys followed by a supposed dropoff to Jerod Mayo...Everyone had those top 7 players in some type of order, but always, each was in the top 7. At the draft, no one slipped and he/Tannenbaum were stuck with the weakest of the 7, Gholston. I know I sound like an apologist, but I just don't think he is THAT bad as he is made out to be. This is probably the end for him being an NFL head coach, but he will certainly be on the Coordinator circuit for a while if he chooses not to be a HC for a university...
 
Tackling Dummies said:
Sweet Love said:
I have an odd feeling that Cleveland may win the Gruden/Cowher sweepstakes...
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Not to hijack, but Cowher would most likely go to a team that provides a bit more of a Coach+ GM role.
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Makes sense, but I also think Cowher is not going to take any ownership B.S. Jerry Jones got all high and mighty about how no Super Bowl winner ever repeated for a different organization...my guess is that he put the feelers out, was denied and then settled on Garrett. Working for a past associate in the coaching world would have to be better than working for an owner/dictator.
 
Sweet Love said:
Fensalk said:
What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.
Click to expand...
I don't remember (as a Jets fan) Mangini's weakness being poor clock management (although you are talking to a guy who had to endure Herm Edwards, so anything is an improvement). He is set in his ways, so I see the "ability to adjust at halftime" as a major "con" against him. I don't think his talent evaluation is poor...he is responsible for bringing in Thomas Jones (a high-pick bust at the time with just one good year under his belt) to the Jets and trading for Peyton Hillis, when ANYONE could have had him for a song. His biggest whiff was Vernon Gholston...but if you remember, that year the Jets picked 7th...and there were 7 "elite" guys followed by a supposed dropoff to Jerod Mayo...Everyone had those top 7 players in some type of order, but always, each was in the top 7. At the draft, no one slipped and he/Tannenbaum were stuck with the weakest of the 7, Gholston. I know I sound like an apologist, but I just don't think he is THAT bad as he is made out to be. This is probably the end for him being an NFL head coach, but he will certainly be on the Coordinator circuit for a while if he chooses not to be a HC for a university...
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Good points. The problem is taking Massaquoi, Robiskie, and Veikune in the 2nd round in 2009. He blew all three 2nd round picks. In fact, outside of Alex Mack, did Mangini add anything during the one year he picked the players?
 
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Holmgren told someone (Peter King?) that he likes a former QB. Got some flack for saying it while Mangini was still on board.

Anyhow, Mornhinweg was his QB when Holmgren was a HS coach and they have been together "forever".

I don't know how hard it would be to get Hasselbeck but that'd be a good veteran backup to show McCoy and WRs the system he wants and...it all seems very doable.

I never thought Holmgren was that good-Favre and White rocked but I think it's kind of curious to look to a protege of his

 
Bri said:
Holmgren told someone (Peter King?) that he likes a former QB. Got some flack for saying it while Mangini was still on board.

Anyhow, Mornhinweg was his QB when Holmgren was a HS coach and they have been together "forever".

I don't know how hard it would be to get Hasselbeck but that'd be a good veteran backup to show McCoy and WRs the system he wants and...it all seems very doable.

I never thought Holmgren was that good-Favre and White rocked but I think it's kind of curious to look to a protege of his
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Won't be hard at all. I doubt anyone will outbid the Browns for him and it's more or less a foregone conclusion that Carroll won't have him back. I don't think Hass would have any other offers anywhere near as friendly as being back with the Walrus.
 
My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.

 
skillz said:
My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.
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You realize we're talking about the Cleveland Browns, right?
 
skillz said:
My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.
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sometimes people are better the 2nd time around, Marty was in over his head but he is an excellent OC. We will see what the Walrus does
 
Sweet Love said:
Fensalk said:
What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.
Click to expand...
I don't remember (as a Jets fan) Mangini's weakness being poor clock management (although you are talking to a guy who had to endure Herm Edwards, so anything is an improvement). He is set in his ways, so I see the "ability to adjust at halftime" as a major "con" against him. I don't think his talent evaluation is poor...he is responsible for bringing in Thomas Jones (a high-pick bust at the time with just one good year under his belt) to the Jets and trading for Peyton Hillis, when ANYONE could have had him for a song. His biggest whiff was Vernon Gholston...but if you remember, that year the Jets picked 7th...and there were 7 "elite" guys followed by a supposed dropoff to Jerod Mayo...Everyone had those top 7 players in some type of order, but always, each was in the top 7. At the draft, no one slipped and he/Tannenbaum were stuck with the weakest of the 7, Gholston. I know I sound like an apologist, but I just don't think he is THAT bad as he is made out to be. This is probably the end for him being an NFL head coach, but he will certainly be on the Coordinator circuit for a while if he chooses not to be a HC for a university...
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I'm pretty sure Holmgren got Peyton Hillis.
 
cvnpoka said:
omahabrad said:
cvnpoka said:
got a player hurt by letting him practice in cantact drills without pads
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i think you need to show some evidence for this one.
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James Davis rookie season. (shoulder)I think even NFLPA filed a grievence against him and he was fined

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/10/12/1644900...ive-james-davis
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ya did some research on it, def a shady situation.
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The thing with his kids camp is almost as bad. In the off-season he runs several coaching clinic camps for youth football, and he forces his rookies to assist him. Who has less power in the league than a rookie who hasn't been to his first training camp. That's just a punk move IMO, exploiting his position as the HC.
 
skillz said:
My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.
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He isn't the GM.
 
Holmgren is so overrated as A so called football guy. I think the Browns showed some progress. What do you expect with that personel?

 
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Holmgren won't say that that he definitely won't be the coach, but says he probably won't coach again. (Interview going on right now)

 
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PizzaDeliveryGuy said:
Put me in the camp that thinks this was a mistake.
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I agree. The fact that they beat the Patriots with a roster that has very little talent gave me hope. 10 of their 16 games were against teams that won 10 games or more. They didn't have the talent to win against a schedule like that. Of the 11 losses, 6 or 7 of them were games they had a chance to win. At least 3 of them, they should be embarrassed about:1. Cincinnati2. Buffalo3. Jacksonville - how do you lose when your defense gets 6 turnovers?2 others they should have won:1. Tampa Bay - 17-14 - TB scores TDs in the last 2 minutes of each half2. Kansas City - 16-14 - KC has a pick 6 and 3 FGsWe found out later that both of them would win 10 games. Overall a very competitive season, they just couldn't manage the clock, make the play when they needed to or get a big stop at the end of games. I guess when you look at it that way, a new coach might not hurt?
 
they regressed immensely after the jets and jags loss. effort and pride just werent there in ensuing games, specifically vs the bengals and steelers. i think a lot of that has to be on mangini.

 
Hipple said:
Really? What a joke. He inherited a ####ty team with no qbs, and was able to spin hillis and mccoy and not much else into a decent season. Laughable.
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2009 - Browns finished 5-11 with a four game winning streak2010 - Browns finished 5-11 with a four game losing streak That said, more than anything I think Holmgren wants a coach who is his choice, not someone else's.
 
PizzaDeliveryGuy said:
skillz said:
My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.
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He isn't the GM.
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I guess my point was that he has struggled making personnel decisions and coaching a team at the same time. He would be doing just that if he took over as head coach in Cleveland. He should check his ego at the door and hire a good head coach and stick to personnel decisions.
 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
skillz said:
My recollection was Holmgren had problems in a dual head coach/GM position in Seattle. Once he gave up on the GM duties and focused solely on coaching the team did much better. The team is better off letting him stay in a GM role so he can focus his attention on being a GM. Schefter speculated on Mike and Mike this morning that Morninwheg could end up being the head coach there. As a Lions fan, I just can't believe someone would want to hire that guy as a head coach.
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sometimes people are better the 2nd time around, Marty was in over his head but he is an excellent OC. We will see what the Walrus does
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This is my take on Marty. Some people are cut out to be good coordinators and not head coaches. I think he falls into that category.
 
They've got their QB. McCoy is going to be a helluva player, IMO. He reminds me a lot of Joe Montana.

The Browns are closer than most people think. With some more talent at WR, their offense could be really good with McCoy, Hillis, & a solid OL. Give McCoy another year & I believe this team will be a legit playoff contender. If they hit on some defensive playmakers in the draft, this could be one of the better teams in the league within a couple years (with the right HC).

 
Cleveland Browns' Mike Holmgren won't go too far to look for Eric Mangini's successor

Tony Grossi

Cleveland.com

Monday, January 03, 2011

BEREA, Ohio -- In the initial club statement on the firing of Eric Mangini, Browns President Mike Holmgren did not comment on whether he would take over as coach.

Holmgren will address the media at 1 p.m. today.

NFL sources insist that if Holmgren does not take the job himself, he will name a coach from the stable of clients represented by agent Bob LaMonte. Holmgren and LaMonte have known each for 30 years since they taught and coached together at Santa Theresa High School in San Jose, Calif.

Here are some prominent candidates from the LaMonte client base:

•John Fox: Well-respected as coach of the Carolina Panthers and as a defensive assistant coach before that with the Giants, Raiders, Chargers and Steelers. He was 78-74 in nine seasons with the Panthers, including three division championships and one appearance in the Super Bowl. His contract was not renewed by Panthers owner Jerry Richardson.

•Jon Gruden: Currently the lead ESPN "Monday Night Football" analyst, his first job in the NFL was alongside Holmgren in San Francisco as an offensive assistant with the 49ers in 1990. Gruden then followed Holmgren to Green Bay as Packers receivers coach. After a stint with the Eagles, Gruden was named head coach at Oakland and later jumped to Tampa Bay. He put the Tony Dungy-built Bucs over the top and beat his former Raiders team in the Super Bowl. In 11 seasons with Oakland and Tampa Bay, his record was 95-81.

•Marty Mornhinweg: A former high school quarterback coached by Holmgren 30 years ago, he rejoined Holmgren as an offensive assistant two years in Green Bay. He also had stints with San Francisco and currently Philadelphia. His work in refining Michael Vick's quarterback mechanics and fundamentals with the Eagles as offensive coordinator has rehabilitated his own reputation, which was tarnished by a two-year stint as Detroit head coach. Mornhinweg was 5-27 with the Lions in 2001 and '02.

•Brad Childress: Fired as Vikings coach in the middle of his fifth season, he learned Holmgren's offense working under Eagles coach Andy Reid for seven seasons, the last four as offensive coordinator. Browns GM Tom Heckert was with the Eagles during that time. His record as Vikings head coach was 40-37.

•Jim Mora: He was Steve Mariucci's defensive coordinator in San Francisco and then was hired as head coach in Atlanta. He was 26-22 in three years with one division title with the Falcons. From there he moved to Seattle, where he spent two years as Holmgren's in-house successor. Mora then went 5-11 as coach of the Seahawks and was fired. He currently works as an NFL Network analyst.

•Mike McCoy: His job as offensive coordinator with the Denver Broncos is uncertain as that team is also looking for a replacement for fired coach Josh McDaniels. McCoy, 38, played quarterback in two leagues other than the NFL and joined former 49ers coach George Seifert with Carolina in 1999. When Fox succeeded Seifert, McCoy stayed on through 2008. He then joined McDaniels in Denver.

Other LaMonte clients include: McDaniels, the Barberton native and fired Denver coach; and Mike Sherman, former Green Bay coach now coach at Texas A&M.

Holmgren will have to interview at least one minority candidate to satisfy the NFL's Rooney Rule. Leslie Frazier, another LaMonte client, would have been a strong candidate, but he has been named coach of the Minnesota Vikings. Another possibility is Karl Dorrell, former UCLA head coach and currently receivers coach with the Miami Dolphins.
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PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Sweet Love said:
Fensalk said:
What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.
Click to expand...
I don't remember (as a Jets fan) Mangini's weakness being poor clock management (although you are talking to a guy who had to endure Herm Edwards, so anything is an improvement). He is set in his ways, so I see the "ability to adjust at halftime" as a major "con" against him. I don't think his talent evaluation is poor...he is responsible for bringing in Thomas Jones (a high-pick bust at the time with just one good year under his belt) to the Jets and trading for Peyton Hillis, when ANYONE could have had him for a song. His biggest whiff was Vernon Gholston...but if you remember, that year the Jets picked 7th...and there were 7 "elite" guys followed by a supposed dropoff to Jerod Mayo...Everyone had those top 7 players in some type of order, but always, each was in the top 7. At the draft, no one slipped and he/Tannenbaum were stuck with the weakest of the 7, Gholston. I know I sound like an apologist, but I just don't think he is THAT bad as he is made out to be. This is probably the end for him being an NFL head coach, but he will certainly be on the Coordinator circuit for a while if he chooses not to be a HC for a university...
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I'm pretty sure Holmgren got Peyton Hillis.
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There was an article somewhere (I think when the whole Hillis hit on McDaniels' wife thing came out), where Mangini remembered Hillis from his days against the Jets, and Mangini and co. were about to cut Quinn and literally threw a "hail mary" to Denver to see whether they were interested. They bit hard and supposedly he not only got Hillis (who he would have taken straightup) but also a 5th rounder (or something like that).
 
Sweet Love said:
PlasmaDogPlasma said:
Sweet Love said:
Fensalk said:
What is Mangini's strength? I can't think of any. I can see his weaknesses. Poor clock management. Inability to adjust at halftime. Poor talent evaluation.
Click to expand...
I don't remember (as a Jets fan) Mangini's weakness being poor clock management (although you are talking to a guy who had to endure Herm Edwards, so anything is an improvement). He is set in his ways, so I see the "ability to adjust at halftime" as a major "con" against him. I don't think his talent evaluation is poor...he is responsible for bringing in Thomas Jones (a high-pick bust at the time with just one good year under his belt) to the Jets and trading for Peyton Hillis, when ANYONE could have had him for a song. His biggest whiff was Vernon Gholston...but if you remember, that year the Jets picked 7th...and there were 7 "elite" guys followed by a supposed dropoff to Jerod Mayo...Everyone had those top 7 players in some type of order, but always, each was in the top 7. At the draft, no one slipped and he/Tannenbaum were stuck with the weakest of the 7, Gholston. I know I sound like an apologist, but I just don't think he is THAT bad as he is made out to be. This is probably the end for him being an NFL head coach, but he will certainly be on the Coordinator circuit for a while if he chooses not to be a HC for a university...
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure Holmgren got Peyton Hillis.
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There was an article somewhere (I think when the whole Hillis hit on McDaniels' wife thing came out), where Mangini remembered Hillis from his days against the Jets, and Mangini and co. were about to cut Quinn and literally threw a "hail mary" to Denver to see whether they were interested. They bit hard and supposedly he not only got Hillis (who he would have taken straightup) but also a 5th rounder (or something like that).
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:suds: Mangini was the one who pushed for Hillis.
 
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