March 3rd Deadline or there will be a lockout.. (1 Viewer)

[uconnalum]

I heard on the radio this morning if a new CBA is not agreed upon by March 3rd the owners will lock the players out. They also said there will be no NFL Draft until a CBA is agreed upon by players and owners.

My question is why did all these underclassmen declare for the draft if they will be imposed to the salary structure of the new CBA which with 100 percent certainty the owners will ask for a rookie salary structure similar to the NBA's rookie salary structure.

Wouldn't they have been better off staying in school and getting another year of college ball under there belt.

 

[Steed]

I'm pretty sure the draft will happen no matter what.

 

[CrossEyed]

I wondered the same thing a while back. If they can't sign FAs or make trades with no CBA, why would they be able to hold a draft?

 

[uconnalum]

Almost certain there will be no draft.

2011 NFL Lockout Draws Near

The immediate consequences are that no new contracts can be signed, no trades can take place, and the 2011 NFL Draft will be at risk. No new deal between the players and the league (basically the owners) means that no rookie contracts can be signed either. If the labor disagreement goes for too long, it could start affecting the early training camps, and eventually start cutting into the 2011 preseason and regular season schedule. Game cancellations could soon follow that, causing a lot of disdain around the league.

With only two games remaining on the schedule this year (Pro Bowl and Super Bowl), we could be looking at a gap between major football news that might make this an extremely boring offseason for football fans. We will surely hear daily updates about the owners and players refusing to give up their paychecks, and each side will play off the media how they are being hurt by the other side.

Get ready NFL fans, because we might be in for a long offseason packed with bickering and negotiations between the millionaire players and billionaire owners that show no respect for the people actually buying the tickets.

 

[uconnalum]

Underclassmen should of stayed in school. They are subject to the new CBA whenever that is signed. Who advised these kids to come out early.

Aiello said this year's draft will occur under the terms of the current collective bargaining agreement, which expires March 4, but the drafted players will be subject to the terms of the next agreement.

Lockout doesn't Deter underclassmen

 

[Dexter Manley]

I was under the impression that the draft will still take place, but no one can sign a contract until the new CBA is done.

If that's not the case, this could turn into a nightmare. Imagine if the 2 sides don't reach an agreement until the last week of August, for example. Are they just going to throw together the draft a week or 2 later?

Also, are all the teams' gm's, coaches, scouts, etc. still getting paid during the lockout?

 

[Orange Crush]

It looks likely that the next deal will have a hard rookie salary cap, and in exchange for that rookie contracts will be reduced in the maximum number of years (so that they can get to the higher free agent money faster). Thus it makes sense to come out as early as you can, so that you can get your rookie contract over with earlier and get to the real money that much faster.

 

[Txns8]

Can the underclassmen go back to school if there is no draft?

 

[cobalt_27]

100% certain the NFL Draft is going to take place, regardless. Teams can trade picks, but cannot include players in the trades.

 

[mad sweeney]

Underclassmen should of stayed in school. They are subject to the new CBA whenever that is signed. Who advised these kids to come out early.

Aiello said this year's draft will occur under the terms of the current collective bargaining agreement, which expires March 4, but the drafted players will be subject to the terms of the next agreement.

Lockout doesn't Deter underclassmen

They're not the only ones!C'mon, just a little joke. I gave up on the epidemic of "of" vs " 've" and floating apostrophes long ago.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Can the underclassmen go back to school if there is no draft?

If they signed with an agent and or received gifts/money or anything else from anyone they would be ineligible.

 

[David Yudkin]

Last I was aware, there will still be a draft but the drafted players will not be able to sign a contract without a new CBA. There also could likely be a rookie salary cap which would be implemented this year after the fact, but apparently the college players will just have to leave with it and deal with it if there is one. I have not seen anywhere that there would not be a draft this year.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I thought there was talk of moving the draft up to Before march 4th???????

 

[Clarence the barber]

Underclassmen should of stayed in school. They are subject to the new CBA whenever that is signed. Who advised these kids to come out early.

Aiello said this year's draft will occur under the terms of the current collective bargaining agreement, which expires March 4, but the drafted players will be subject to the terms of the next agreement.

Lockout doesn't Deter underclassmen

They're not the only ones!C'mon, just a little joke. I gave up on the epidemic of "of" vs " 've" and floating apostrophes long ago.

No, you didn't.

 

[CrossEyed]

It looks likely that the next deal will have a hard rookie salary cap, and in exchange for that rookie contracts will be reduced in the maximum number of years (so that they can get to the higher free agent money faster). Thus it makes sense to come out as early as you can, so that you can get your rookie contract over with earlier and get to the real money that much faster.

Depends on how you look at it. With a hard cap and a shorter rookie contract, they might be better off making sure they are NFL-ready so they can perform at a high level right away, thus assuring themselves of a bigger payday in contract 2.

 

[Orange Crush]

Can the underclassmen go back to school if there is no draft?

No.

 

[thayman]

Can the underclassmen go back to school if there is no draft?

No.

I thought as long as they didn't hire an agent they would still retain their eligibility.

 

[uconnalum]

The majority of the kids who declared for the draft have already withdrawn from school. I know for a fact Cam Newton is no longer at Auburn and I also believe Fairley has withdrawn from Auburn also.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The NFLPA and the owners agreed that the 2011 draft will take place even though it is post-March 4th. That is in the old CBA terms.

I will find a link.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

One source:

Yahoo-NFL CBA Q&A

 

[uconnalum]

Interesting read from Bleacher Report. What owners are offering for rookie contracts is in line with an NBA rookie salary but the years are not proportionate.

Owners are offering the NFLPA that the #1 Overall QB is paid a max of 6YR/19 million which is about 3.2 million per year and the 1st Overall Pick in the NBA this year gets 4.2 million the 1st year and 4.6 million the second. Then there are options for the 3rd and 4th year. This proposal won't fly with the NFLPA average NFL career is 3.5 years some players won't even make it through there rookie contract.

Owners are really playing tough and want to reign in these rookie salaries but the way a career can end quickly in the NFL with an injury or multiple concussions I can see why the players want to make all the money with there rookie contract.

Bleacher Report Article

Now, consider that any new CBA is likely to have a rookie wage scale in place. In fact, according to Packers president Mark Murphy, who was cited in a Washington Post article, the league wants a system that would lock a quarterback who is taken with the first overall pick into an approximately six-year, $19.9 million contract.

That's a far cry from the six-year, $78 million deal with $50 million guaranteed that St. Louis Rams quarterback Sam Bradford received as the first overall pick in 2010.

Players who have already declared for the draft would be granted a waiver to return to school if academically eligible. How many will still be academically eligible after not taking any classes during the spring and withdrawing from the University to prepare for the combine and all there other pre-draft activities.

 

[uconnalum]

The NFLPA and the owners agreed that the 2011 draft will take place even though it is post-March 4th. That is in the old CBA terms.I will find a link.

That was from September. A lot has changed especially with this new leader who is intent on fighting the Owners instead of sitting down and compromising with them.I think the players want to play but it is there representation that is leading them down the wrong path. I would like to know how many players would support a CBA along the same lines as the current CBA but with a rookie pay scale in place, and improved pension benefits and medical insurance for players retired from the league.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

The NFLPA and the owners agreed that the 2011 draft will take place even though it is post-March 4th. That is in the old CBA terms.I will find a link.

That was from September. A lot has changed especially with this new leader who is intent on fighting the Owners instead of sitting down and compromising with them.I think the players want to play but it is there representation that is leading them down the wrong path. I would like to know how many players would support a CBA along the same lines as the current CBA but with a rookie pay scale in place, and improved pension benefits and medical insurance for players retired from the league.

Um, no. The CBA is the CBA. The draft will occur because that was in the terms of the CBA. The new NFLPA President has nothing to do with it - in fact, he doesn't even represent the college athletes because they're not NFL players yet.

 

[Drink G2]

It looks likely that the next deal will have a hard rookie salary cap, and in exchange for that rookie contracts will be reduced in the maximum number of years (so that they can get to the higher free agent money faster). Thus it makes sense to come out as early as you can, so that you can get your rookie contract over with earlier and get to the real money that much faster.

Agreed in principal. And for all years but this one. Potentially sitting out a year of football would hurt all these incoming rookies chances of successfully completing their rookie contract and earning a big pay day following.It's my understanding the NFL draft will go on either way, no contracts can be signed which raises an interesting point:In the current CBA aren't rookies who aren't signed to a contract within a year allowed to re-enter the draft the following year?Couple of things:- If no CBA is signed by next year's draft (NHL had 2 drafts during their recent lockout) would all these players have the option to re-enter?- If a CBA is signed but not by the deadline and a similar rule to what we have now goes into effect at what point would we see rookies sitting out the year to be drafted by a different team?Also, underclassmen are granted a waiver to return to school? But does that mean they will be allowed to play sports? and if so what are the stipulations for this?

 

[FantasyTrader]

It looks likely that the next deal will have a hard rookie salary cap, and in exchange for that rookie contracts will be reduced in the maximum number of years (so that they can get to the higher free agent money faster). Thus it makes sense to come out as early as you can, so that you can get your rookie contract over with earlier and get to the real money that much faster.

Agreed in principal. And for all years but this one. Potentially sitting out a year of football would hurt all these incoming rookies chances of successfully completing their rookie contract and earning a big pay day following.It's my understanding the NFL draft will go on either way, no contracts can be signed which raises an interesting point:In the current CBA aren't rookies who aren't signed to a contract within a year allowed to re-enter the draft the following year?Couple of things:- If no CBA is signed by next year's draft (NHL had 2 drafts during their recent lockout) would all these players have the option to re-enter?- If a CBA is signed but not by the deadline and a similar rule to what we have now goes into effect at what point would we see rookies sitting out the year to be drafted by a different team?Also, underclassmen are granted a waiver to return to school? But does that mean they will be allowed to play sports? and if so what are the stipulations for this?

Well, there is also the line of thought that first round picks stand a good chance of HURTING their draft status by staying in school. If I'm a first round (or 1st/2nd bubble) underclassman prospect; yes, I'm giving away at least a year of additional experience to hone my skills but I'm also not tearing my ACL and I'm not damaging my draft stock (assuming I'm a good person and not out there making poor choices). There's some merit to leaving early even if it's not set in stone when the next NFL Draft will be.ETA: Plus, let's be honest about the real-life aspect of this. It's pretty easy for innocent bystanders to look at it and see the merits of staying but think back to when you were 21 years old and how long a YEAR was to you. Another year of Ramen Noodles vs. my first year as a millionaire and no more classes? For some of these kids it's really not even a difficult choice.

 

[Clarence the barber]

It looks likely that the next deal will have a hard rookie salary cap, and in exchange for that rookie contracts will be reduced in the maximum number of years (so that they can get to the higher free agent money faster). Thus it makes sense to come out as early as you can, so that you can get your rookie contract over with earlier and get to the real money that much faster.

Agreed in principal. And for all years but this one. Potentially sitting out a year of football would hurt all these incoming rookies chances of successfully completing their rookie contract and earning a big pay day following.It's my understanding the NFL draft will go on either way, no contracts can be signed which raises an interesting point:In the current CBA aren't rookies who aren't signed to a contract within a year allowed to re-enter the draft the following year?Couple of things:- If no CBA is signed by next year's draft (NHL had 2 drafts during their recent lockout) would all these players have the option to re-enter?- If a CBA is signed but not by the deadline and a similar rule to what we have now goes into effect at what point would we see rookies sitting out the year to be drafted by a different team?Also, underclassmen are granted a waiver to return to school? But does that mean they will be allowed to play sports? and if so what are the stipulations for this?

Well, there is also the line of thought that first round picks stand a good chance of HURTING their draft status by staying in school. If I'm a first round (or 1st/2nd bubble) underclassman prospect; yes, I'm giving away at least a year of additional experience to hone my skills but I'm also not tearing my ACL and I'm not damaging my draft stock (assuming I'm a good person and not out there making poor choices). There's some merit to leaving early even if it's not set in stone when the next NFL Draft will be.ETA: Plus, let's be honest about the real-life aspect of this. It's pretty easy for innocent bystanders to look at it and see the merits of staying but think back to when you were 21 years old and how long a YEAR was to you. Another year of Ramen Noodles vs. my first year as a millionaire and no more classes? For some of these kids it's really not even a difficult choice.

You are kidding me if you think D1 football players eat Ramen Noodles.

 

[zed2283]

I thought there was talk of moving the draft up to Before march 4th???????

Back over the summer I remember hearing someone say that it would be held right after the Super Bowl. But apparently I'm the only one who heard this, and I have been unable to find a link to support it.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

This proposal won't fly with the NFLPA average NFL career is 3.5 years some players won't even make it through there rookie contract.

This is one of the more misleading stats. This figure includes all of the fringe players that latch on at the end of rosters and lose their jobs quickly or those that suffer injuries early.The first and second round players - those affacted the most by a rookie wage scale - usuaully stick around quite a while because they are the more talented players and/or because teams invested a 1st and 2nd round pick and thus give those players more rope.

 

[Orange Crush]

I think the draft will take place as normal, but no negotiations will take place between any NFL teams and rookies while a lockout is in effect.

There's the possibility that the NFLPA will decertify and the players will sue the NFL under antitrust laws for collusion. And the draft is primary example number one for collusion (after all, you don't see Intel and Apple taking turns selecting which newly graduated engineers they hire). So there's a danger to the NFL for holding the draft. But they undoubtedly think that even if they are sued, the two sides will eventually settle with a new CBA that retroactively accepts all actions taken during the period with no CBA, including the draft.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I think the draft will take place as normal, but no negotiations will take place between any NFL teams and rookies while a lockout is in effect. There's the possibility that the NFLPA will decertify and the players will sue the NFL under antitrust laws for collusion. And the draft is primary example number one for collusion (after all, you don't see Intel and Apple taking turns selecting which newly graduated engineers they hire). So there's a danger to the NFL for holding the draft. But they undoubtedly think that even if they are sued, the two sides will eventually settle with a new CBA that retroactively accepts all actions taken during the period with no CBA, including the draft.

I doubt that the player de-certify.Keeping drafts in all sport is the only way to keep competitive balance. Hard to imagine any of the big4 not having drafts

 

[Orange Crush]

This proposal won't fly with the NFLPA average NFL career is 3.5 years some players won't even make it through there rookie contract.

This is one of the more misleading stats. This figure includes all of the fringe players that latch on at the end of rosters and lose their jobs quickly or those that suffer injuries early.The first and second round players - those affacted the most by a rookie wage scale - usuaully stick around quite a while because they are the more talented players and/or because teams invested a 1st and 2nd round pick and thus give those players more rope.

This is true. Take a look at the 2007 draft (4 years ago).There are 3 1st rounders who are already out of the league (out of 32 selected).

There are 6 2nd rounders gone (out of 32).

There are 10 3rd rounders gone (out of 35).

There are 16 4th rounders gone (out of 38).

There are 16 5th rounders gone (out of 37).

There are 18 6th rounders gone (out of 36); and

There are 26 7th rounders gone of the league (out of 45).

 

[Orange Crush]

I think the draft will take place as normal, but no negotiations will take place between any NFL teams and rookies while a lockout is in effect. There's the possibility that the NFLPA will decertify and the players will sue the NFL under antitrust laws for collusion. And the draft is primary example number one for collusion (after all, you don't see Intel and Apple taking turns selecting which newly graduated engineers they hire). So there's a danger to the NFL for holding the draft. But they undoubtedly think that even if they are sued, the two sides will eventually settle with a new CBA that retroactively accepts all actions taken during the period with no CBA, including the draft.

I doubt that the player de-certify.Keeping drafts in all sport is the only way to keep competitive balance. Hard to imagine any of the big4 not having drafts

As I said, the NFL will almost certainly have a draft even if the union decertifies.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. The last time we had labor unrest there were no winners, and if it comes to pass again there will again be no winners.

They say the average career in the NFL is under 4 years. While that may extend some if there is no play, as there will be no injuries, for some players they will loose their last year in the league due to aging, and for some they will get replaced with the bigger pool of available incomming players, the pool being two years big in size.

As for the owners, they risk alienation of fans. Yes, many will forgive and get over it, but history shows there will be a lose of support and they will have to regrow their fan base. This will happen, but it will take time.

Right now neither side seems willing to appreciate the other side's position, nor the reality of what this will do to some significant % of players or the game. Both sides are too busy posturing to show their resolve, their manhood. Both are being very foolish.

 

[omahabrad]

I heard on the radio this morning if a new CBA is not agreed upon by March 3rd the owners will lock the players out. They also said there will be no NFL Draft until a CBA is agreed upon by players and owners.My question is why did all these underclassmen declare for the draft if they will be imposed to the salary structure of the new CBA which with 100 percent certainty the owners will ask for a rookie salary structure similar to the NBA's rookie salary structure.Wouldn't they have been better off staying in school and getting another year of college ball under there belt.

I think alot of the underclassmen declared because there's a chance that a rookie salary cap wont go in effect until 2012 season.

 

[Dexter Manley]

100% certain the NFL Draft is going to take place, regardless. Teams can trade picks, but cannot include players in the trades.

Woah this is the first I've heard of this, but I guess it does make sense. Anyone have a link that can verify this?

 

[omahabrad]

This was taken from NFL.com

The NFL Draft returns to primetime in 2011, with the first round taking place Thurs., April 28 at 7:30 p.m. ET, followed by the second and third rounds on Fri., April 29 at 6 p.m. ET. Rounds 4-7 will be held Sat., April 30 at 10 a.m. ET. Watch the entire draft live on NFL Network.

For now at least it's still scheduled

 

[David Yudkin]

100% certain the NFL Draft is going to take place, regardless. Teams can trade picks, but cannot include players in the trades.

Woah this is the first I've heard of this, but I guess it does make sense. Anyone have a link that can verify this?

Yes, this is the case.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

This was taken from NFL.comThe NFL Draft returns to primetime in 2011, with the first round taking place Thurs., April 28 at 7:30 p.m. ET, followed by the second and third rounds on Fri., April 29 at 6 p.m. ET. Rounds 4-7 will be held Sat., April 30 at 10 a.m. ET. Watch the entire draft live on NFL Network. For now at least it's still scheduled

Im willing to bet it happens on that day.Also the march 3rd deadline will get "extended"

 

[blackbird001]

This was taken from NFL.comThe NFL Draft returns to primetime in 2011, with the first round taking place Thurs., April 28 at 7:30 p.m. ET, followed by the second and third rounds on Fri., April 29 at 6 p.m. ET. Rounds 4-7 will be held Sat., April 30 at 10 a.m. ET. Watch the entire draft live on NFL Network. For now at least it's still scheduled

Im willing to bet it happens on that day.Also the march 3rd deadline will get "extended"

The draft will definitely happen and happen on its scheduled date. These kids aren't part of a team or in a union. They really don't have a dog in this fight. Also, the advertising for the prime-time draft has been sold. With the uncertainty of football hanging in the cloud, the ratings for this years draft will blow away last years and last years were a substantial increase from the year before. This will be one of the last shots at making some money for the league until the CBA is settled.I'm assuming teams will still have the same access to the combine players and prospective draftees, but possibly on skeleton crews as many teams have lockout plans in place which reduce the support staff or cut salaries of support staff considerably.The part of this that affects fantasy the most and specifically dynasty owners is what happens if a lockout occurs until week 1 (week 7 would be even worse), that means no off-season/ no training camp/ no workouts. It would be like the entire draft class held out. We've seen how this kills all but the most talented prospects. It practically sets them back a year. Next year, they will have the new class of shiny objects in training camp to compete with. So, I guess what I'm wondering is: a) besides increasing taxi squads on dynasty rosters as something that will just have to be done, since fantasy owners will have no opportunity to evaluate these rookies. b) Does the prospect of a lost year and thus throwing this class into competition with next years class somehow devalue this class? I mean if all of a sudden the effective competing rookie base in the league has doubled, I would think that roughly half of those competing would be eliminated once cut-downs came on the calendar in late august 2012.

 

[Orange Crush]

The draft will definitely happen and happen on its scheduled date. These kids aren't part of a team or in a union. They really don't have a dog in this fight.

Sure they do. The union doesn't just represent current NFL players but future players and the Collective Bargaining Agreement applies to them just as much. Their not yet being in the NFL or paying union dues has no bearing on the matter. For example, players have to be three years removed from high school to be eligible to play in the NFL. This came from the CBA. Remember when Maurice Clarett sued the NFL wanting to void that rule? He lost, and the court's ruling held that the reason why he lost was because the union represented Clarett as a potential NFL player and the union had agreed to that rule via collective bargaining.Likewise, everything having to do with the draft is part of the CBA. Without the CBA, any attempt to follow those rules and procedures by the individual teams is collective and collusory activity by competing economic entities, a.k.a. a violation of antitrust law. Having the draft without the cover of a collective bargaining agreement is most certainly a risk for the league. Say March 3rd comes without an agreement and the NFLPA decertifies. Say there's a quarterback coming out of college (who may have won a national award and shows a history of not following rules) who likes the idea of several different teams bidding on his services rather than having the rights to acquire his services limited to one team via the draft. He contacts various NFL teams and wants to enter into contractual negotiations, but every team refuses. That player can then sue because the rules for the draft no longer apply with the expiration of the CBA. In fact, if I was the agent for a prospective rookie, I'd seriously consider urging the NFLPA to decertify on March 4th for this very reason (the union has to decertify first because until that takes place, the union technically represents all potential NFL players even if they have not yet paid any union dues).Like I said above, I still think the draft takes place even after the expiration of the CBA under the assumption that a new CBA will be agreed to before any legal proceedings become final, and the CBA will authorize the draft retroactively. But it's not a 100% certainty.

 

[Txns8]

Interesting development:

Potential Combine Boycott

DALLAS (AP)—The NFL players union has discussed a boycott of the scouting combine later this month with player agents.

Several people familiar with the talks told The Associated Press on Friday that the union suggested keeping potential 2011 draft picks away from the combine in Indianapolis and from other draft-related activities while there is no collective bargaining agreement. The people spoke anonymously because they are not authorized to give out the information.

Such a boycott could jeopardize the draft status of those players, who are not yet members of the union. And with CBA negotiations including a possible rookie wage scale, such a move could be detrimental to college players entering the league.

NFL Network first reported the story.

“We have no knowledge of any such discussions,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told the AP in an e-mail.

The union is hopeful such a boycott would disrupt teams’ scouting of college players, but it’s unlikely to get widespread support from the agents whose first duty is helping their clients get selected high in the draft.

Those agents already are upset about the rookie wage scale proposed by the owners for a new CBA; the current agreement expires March 3. Such a scale would severely limit the bargaining power for first-round picks in particular. The likelihood of anyone approaching Sam Bradford’s(notes) record $50 million guaranteed in his rookie contract with the Rams last summer would be nil.

The draft is April 28-30 in New York, and union officials would like for college players to skip those proceedings if there is no CBA, particularly if the league has locked out the players.

Teams will hold workouts for prospects throughout March and April leading up to the draft, and the NFLPA is urging agents to consider boycotting those, as well.

 

[Insomniac]

There is going to be a college draft this year because of a provision in the expiring CBA.

From the CBA

Article XVI

College Draft

Section 1. Time of Draft: There shall be an Annual Selection Meeting (the "College Draft" or "Draft") each League Year during the term of this Agreement and in the League Year immediately following the expiration or termination of this Agreement...

 

[gump]

NFL teams are being told to cut a 10-15% off their '11 budgets by the NFL...they are not cutting yet.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. The last time we had labor unrest there were no winners, and if it comes to pass again there will again be no winners.

Actually it took five years, but the players walked away with a huge victory last time. As I understand it they got free agency in exchange for agreeing to cap the percentage of money they received in salary. But it the overall effect was to increase competition and create a much freer market for players' services.

In response, the union formally disclaimed any interest in representing NFL players in collective bargaining and reformed itself as a professional organization in 1989. Having done that, the following year union members, led by Freeman McNeil of the New York Jets, brought a new antitrust action against the NFL challenging its free agency rules as an unlawful restraint of trade.The players ultimately prevailed, after a jury trial on their claims, in that action. That verdict, the pendency of other antitrust cases and the threat of a class action filed by Reggie White, then with the Philadelphia Eagles, on behalf of all NFL players brought the parties back to the negotiating table. They finally agreed on a formula that permitted free agency. In return, the owners demanded and received a salary cap, albeit one tied to a formula based on players' share of total league revenues. The agreement also established a salary floor - minimum payrolls all teams were obliged to pay.