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Mark Ingram - what are the chances that the Saints trade him? (1 Viewer)

R

rickyg

Footballguy
Anyone close to the situation in new orleans have a beat on this? It's pretty much a given that Ingam is a bust in that saints offense the way it is set up with the pass first mind set and the crowded backfield.

I still believe in Ingram's talent though. What do the informed people think of the chances that Ingram could be traded before the trade deadline or in the offseason to a RB needy team?

Also from a long term dynasty perspective, how much value do you think Ingram has?

 
'cvnpoka said:
0%. he makes peanuts.
Click to expand...
So, your agrument for why he would not get traded is that his salary is low? While that makes him cheap for the saints to keep doesnt it also make other teams with cap issues even more interested in trading for him? A low salary only makes him a more attractive trade target I would think.
 
For some reason I still believe in Ingram's talent...I just think he is grossly misused. He could be a great buy low in dynasty leagues but he comes with the obvious risk that he stays in this muddled situation in NO. He would only realize his potential on another team as a feature back.

 
Saints might be willing to move him for a #1, but I can't see another team believing in him that much. Saints traded up to get him, way too soon for them to say they made a mistake

 
I really think he is there as insurance. If Thomas wears down, Ingram will be there. Although Chris Ivory is also there and more productive whenever he gets touches.

Either way, it can't hurt to have a bunch of RBs if you can afford it.

 
'rickyg said:
'cvnpoka said:
0%. he makes peanuts.
Click to expand...
So, your agrument for why he would not get traded is that his salary is low? While that makes him cheap for the saints to keep doesnt it also make other teams with cap issues even more interested in trading for him? A low salary only makes him a more attractive trade target I would think.
Click to expand...
The NFL generally is not a trading league like baseball or basketball. there are really not that many player trades during the season, and a player (even disappointing) who does not have a large salary is an asset most teams want to keep. Teams just don't trade significant picks that often in the NFL. Sure lots of team would trade 4th/5th rounder, but those are almost just dart throws in terms of value.
 
'PatsWillWin said:
Yes I think Mark Ingram could be involved in one of the many deadline player deals that the NFL is well known for.
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Why when he hasnt shown much and its unlikely the Saints gain much by doing it. Trades are rare. I would think the AZ Cardinals would have some interest though if thye could get him ultra cheap w/ Beanie and Wells busting injuries.
 
'Short Corner said:
'GreenNGold said:
'Mario Kart said:
The Packers could use him but would not pay more than a 5th or so.
Click to expand...
Why would the Saints trade him to a team that is one of the most likely to knock them out of the playoffs?
Click to expand...
Playoffs?
Click to expand...
:lmao: At 2-5, It's pretty safe to say NO is not going to make the playoffs. 1 more loss and They may as well forget about it. The NFC is way to tough for them to recover from this hole IMO.
 
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.

 
It's hard to do anything when you get 3 carries in a game. There's absolutely no way to know what Ingram can be when he gets no playing time.

 
'spodog said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners. Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
 
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'GreenNGold said:
'Mario Kart said:
The Packers could use him but would not pay more than a 5th or so.
Click to expand...
Why would the Saints trade him to a team that is one of the most likely to knock them out of the playoffs?
Click to expand...
I think if Green Bay trades for a RB they want someone who can be a tough inside runner. I have not seen Ingram much but that does not appear to be him. Ivory is probably more of that and I think would be more likely to go to Green Bay if anyone on the Saints roster.
 
'shader said:
It's hard to do anything when you get 3 carries in a game. There's absolutely no way to know what Ingram can be when he gets no playing time.
Click to expand...
This.....why give up a ton for the guy then not even give him a chance...reminds me of Spiller riding pine the last few yrs....if they are out of the playoff race its time to see what they have in the kid...give him a few games with 20+ carries.
 
'fruity pebbles said:
'spodog said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
Click to expand...
Pierre Thomas career 4.8 yards per carry on 579 attempts

8.3 yards per catch on 181 receptions

Mark Ingram career:

3.6 yards per carry on 169 attempts

3.8 yards per catch on 12 receptions

Agree with you that the play calling is less creative when Ingram is in the backfield, but some of that is because he hasn't proven he deserves to be on the field in anything other than obvious running situations. 2 other backs on the team (maybe 3) that are far superior to Ingram in the pass game.

Even when Thomas is in the backfield in obvious run situations, what I see is that he gets his pads low and bulls defenders, and gains tough yards, like

I just don't see the same intensity, consistency or results with Ingram. Not arguing they should trade him, just saying I think he is getting the share of the playing time he deserves. He isn't owed anything. It's the 1st round draft pick's job to prove he deserves to be on the field. And so far, this first rounder is outplayed by a 4th Round Sproles and an undrafted Pierre Thomas on a consistent basis.

 
'spodog said:
'fruity pebbles said:
'spodog said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
Click to expand...
Pierre Thomas career 4.8 yards per carry on 579 attempts

8.3 yards per catch on 181 receptions

Mark Ingram career:

3.6 yards per carry on 169 attempts

3.8 yards per catch on 12 receptions

Agree with you that the play calling is less creative when Ingram is in the backfield, but some of that is because he hasn't proven he deserves to be on the field in anything other than obvious running situations. 2 other backs on the team (maybe 3) that are far superior to Ingram in the pass game.

Even when Thomas is in the backfield in obvious run situations, what I see is that he gets his pads low and bulls defenders, and gains tough yards, like

Click to expand...
The fact that Ingram has less than 200 touches in his 1.5 year career in NO thus far speaks immensely to the lack of sample size IMO.
 
'jurb26 said:
'spodog said:
'fruity pebbles said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
Click to expand...
Pierre Thomas career 4.8 yards per carry on 579 attempts

8.3 yards per catch on 181 receptions

Mark Ingram career:

3.6 yards per carry on 169 attempts

3.8 yards per catch on 12 receptions

Agree with you that the play calling is less creative when Ingram is in the backfield, but some of that is because he hasn't proven he deserves to be on the field in anything other than obvious running situations. 2 other backs on the team (maybe 3) that are far superior to Ingram in the pass game.

Even when Thomas is in the backfield in obvious run situations, what I see is that he gets his pads low and bulls defenders, and gains tough yards, like

Click to expand...
Sample size? Over Ingram's career, Thomas has 168 carries for 819 (4.9ypc) and 65 rec for 570 yards. Pierre has played 23 games to Ingram's 17. It speaks immensely to why Ingram's sample size is too large. He should only get on the field to spell Pierre or in the case of injury. He has been given far more opportunities than he deserves.
 
'Nero said:
'jurb26 said:
'spodog said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
Click to expand...
Pierre Thomas career 4.8 yards per carry on 579 attempts

8.3 yards per catch on 181 receptions

Mark Ingram career:

3.6 yards per carry on 169 attempts

3.8 yards per catch on 12 receptions

Agree with you that the play calling is less creative when Ingram is in the backfield, but some of that is because he hasn't proven he deserves to be on the field in anything other than obvious running situations. 2 other backs on the team (maybe 3) that are far superior to Ingram in the pass game.

Even when Thomas is in the backfield in obvious run situations, what I see is that he gets his pads low and bulls defenders, and gains tough yards, like

Click to expand...
:lmao: FAIL!

 
'Nero said:
'jurb26 said:
'spodog said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
Click to expand...
Pierre Thomas career 4.8 yards per carry on 579 attempts

8.3 yards per catch on 181 receptions

Mark Ingram career:

3.6 yards per carry on 169 attempts

3.8 yards per catch on 12 receptions

Agree with you that the play calling is less creative when Ingram is in the backfield, but some of that is because he hasn't proven he deserves to be on the field in anything other than obvious running situations. 2 other backs on the team (maybe 3) that are far superior to Ingram in the pass game.

Even when Thomas is in the backfield in obvious run situations, what I see is that he gets his pads low and bulls defenders, and gains tough yards, like

Click to expand...
Wasn't Ingram injured last season? On top of that, using a YPR stat based on 12 receptions is totally meaningless.
 
'jurb26 said:
'Nero said:
'jurb26 said:
Chris Ivory is likely drawing more interest from RB needy teams than Ingram is right now. He just looks horrid with no burst and doesn't even look like he is looking to hit a hole. Walking forward two yards into the back of the guard in front of you and then waiting to be pushed to the ground doesn't draw much interest from trade partners.

Pierre Thomas looks to be by far the best running game threat out of the backfield for this team. He continues to impress.
Click to expand...
Don't know about you but I haven't seen many holes to hit. Ingrams in the game and they run. Everyone including the defense knows it. Pierre is in and the defense is thinking pass. He has running lanes. Id like to see Ingram get a fair shake before declaring him a bust. There's absolutely zero creativity in the playcalling when ingrams in the game.
Click to expand...
Pierre Thomas career 4.8 yards per carry on 579 attempts

8.3 yards per catch on 181 receptions

Mark Ingram career:

3.6 yards per carry on 169 attempts

3.8 yards per catch on 12 receptions

Agree with you that the play calling is less creative when Ingram is in the backfield, but some of that is because he hasn't proven he deserves to be on the field in anything other than obvious running situations. 2 other backs on the team (maybe 3) that are far superior to Ingram in the pass game.

Even when Thomas is in the backfield in obvious run situations, what I see is that he gets his pads low and bulls defenders, and gains tough yards, like

Click to expand...
If you look deeper, Ingram didn't have a training camp last year. Also, Thomas has been in their system 4 years longer than Ingram. No doubt Ingram has been very, very disappointing thus far, but he hasn't really been given a chance to get into a rhythm with that offense.
 
I watch every Saints game including the preseason. When Ingram was drafted you could clearly see the Saints were intent in featuring him. However, his hand were not as good as you would expect an NFL WR son's hand to be and he was not very effective when he did catch. He was given carries at the expense of Pierre in every situation, but was not productive. Ingram's failures is the reason his role is limited. The only reason he has a role is because the Saints are not ready to admit their failure. When Ingram was injured, Chris Ivory played the unimaginative role where the Saints run when he is in the game and far exceeded the production of Ingram.

 
'Nero said:
I watch every Saints game including the preseason. When Ingram was drafted you could clearly see the Saints were intent in featuring him. However, his hand were not as good as you would expect an NFL WR son's hand to be and he was not very effective when he did catch. He was given carries at the expense of Pierre in every situation, but was not productive. Ingram's failures is the reason his role is limited. The only reason he has a role is because the Saints are not ready to admit their failure. When Ingram was injured, Chris Ivory played the unimaginative role where the Saints run when he is in the game and far exceeded the production of Ingram.
Click to expand...
There's no way you can say the Saint's intended to feature him when they drafted him. That just wasn't the case. They had just given Pierre a four year contract, and after the draft they signed Sproles. How do you gather that opinion from these things? As a Saint's fan I was happy they drafted him. I think it was due more to the fact that Pierre and Ivory were injured the year before coupled with the departure of Bush. Looking back on it now, I don't know why they drafted him. He isn't be used properly.
 
It's not about number of carries, it's about when he's getting those carries. There is zero chance for him to establish anything, no rhythm.

 
I think it would be silly if the Saints don't trade at least one running back. I don't think it would be Ingram though. In fact, i think it is more possible that they trade Pierre Thomas. I mean part of the problem for Ingram is that their isn't much of a role for him behind Thomas and Sproles and because the Saints used a first round pick on him they still feel invested in him. It is pretty appearent no one in New Orleans believes they will do anything this year with that horrible defense and Pierre Thomas is the back who would probably yield the highest return for the Saints and it would create a larger opporunity for Ingram immediately in a rebuilding year.

For the teams that are in the market for a back like GB, Pierre Thomas would easily be the best fit. Ingram is totally unproven and isn't a good blocker so GB would have no interest in him and Ivory fumbles too much.

I could actually see the Saints getting a third round pick for a guy like Thomas who still has two years left on his contract at a pretty cheap rate.

Imo, if they do trade someone it will either be Ivory for a 5th or 6th rounder or Thomas for a 3rd rounder.

 
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'RBM said:
It's not about number of carries, it's about when he's getting those carries. There is zero chance for him to establish anything, no rhythm.
Click to expand...
Rhythm? PT has one less carry over Ingram's career, why is he not having a problem establishing "rhythm"?Same tired argument from what is left of the Ingram apologists.
 
Ingram is not a RB1. He's not a speed back, yet he doesn't run with power either. He's not a good blocker and doesn't excel in the passing game, so he's not a 3 down back. He's not a good goal line back or a change of pace guy either. Giving him more carries would just shine a light on the fact that he's not really good at anything that you would desire in a starting NFL back or even a RBBC back. He isn't used "properly" by the Saints because he's not that talented. I doubt any teams would trade much for this guy even if he was available.

 
'Short Corner said:
'RBM said:
It's not about number of carries, it's about when he's getting those carries. There is zero chance for him to establish anything, no rhythm.
Click to expand...
Rhythm? PT has one less carry over Ingram's career, why is he not having a problem establishing "rhythm"?Same tired argument from what is left of the Ingram apologists.
Click to expand...
You realize all rbs are not the same right?
 
I don't get it. From the negative posters in this thread so far I gather that Ingram has subpar talent. No speed and no power. So how did he make defenses in College look silly so often?

Is it possible he is the type of back that needs 20+ carries per game and a rhythm to be established? The type that gets better as the game wears on?

It seems to me that closing the book on this kids talents this early in his career and with how he has been used this far is a mistake.

M

 
'rickyg said:
I don't get it. From the negative posters in this thread so far I gather that Ingram has subpar talent. No speed and no power. So how did he make defenses in College look silly so often?

Is it possible he is the type of back that needs 20+ carries per game and a rhythm to be established? The type that gets better as the game wears on?

It seems to me that closing the book on this kids talents this early in his career and with how he has been used this far is a mistake.

M
Click to expand...
Is he Ron Dayne?
 
'Spike said:
'rickyg said:
I don't get it. From the negative posters in this thread so far I gather that Ingram has subpar talent. No speed and no power. So how did he make defenses in College look silly so often?

Is it possible he is the type of back that needs 20+ carries per game and a rhythm to be established? The type that gets better as the game wears on?

It seems to me that closing the book on this kids talents this early in his career and with how he has been used this far is a mistake.

M
Click to expand...
Is he Ron Dayne?
Click to expand...
No. Ron Dayne actually got a shot to fail.Ingram has done zip with his opportunities, but the entire team looks like they have given up and using BountyGate to toss in the towel. Brees just seems to wing the plays every game and frankly seems to try to beat every defense the same way. I don't think anything will change or improve until after Sean Payton returns. If anything this gives him a season to reflect on how to change things up in 2013. Maybe that includes trading one or more of their RBs or trying to emulate the Patriots with establishing a run. Brees is in such a rush to throw it he mails in any attempt at play action.

Also, Ben Grubbs is a great guard but losing Carl Nicks is still a big loss.

 
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