Gottabesweet
Footballguy
Considering Gio over him this week.
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Mark Ingram (2 Viewers)
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candian fantasy guy
Footballguy
He seemed to more involved in the passing game last season, he was a great weekly start as my RB1 and my team suffered greatly after he went to IR.
Payton was also screwing him last season, make him run until the goaline and then would yank him for whoever, I never understood that. I figured Sean is an avid FF player too and often faces him in his numerous leagues!
Payton was also screwing him last season, make him run until the goaline and then would yank him for whoever, I never understood that. I figured Sean is an avid FF player too and often faces him in his numerous leagues!
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Doug Martin? You mean the Doug Martin who's not practicing yet that we know of and may not play this week?
MattFancy
Footballguy
It's wishful thinking and subject to change!Doug Martin? You mean the Doug Martin who's not practicing yet that we know of and may not play this week?
matttyl
Footballguy
For what it's worth, if he doesn't play - J Rodgers is a sneaky good play coming off a bye vs the worst run defense in the league this week, now without N Bowman.Doug Martin? You mean the Doug Martin who's not practicing yet that we know of and may not play this week?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
And if he plays he will most likely be on a pitch countDoug Martin? You mean the Doug Martin who's not practicing yet that we know of and may not play this week?
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
This!
I have Fleener, Cook and Ingram it's frustrating to say the least. A few weeks ago I had all three playing and I was down by 22pts going into the game and I still lost. I wanted to move Ingram this off season as I traded for Cook and Fleener but the other owner wanted Hyde instead so I got a boatload for him instead.
I will find a way to unload Ingram sooner or later. He's bound to have a good game! He's past due!
Tex
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
BLOWS! My ship is not going to go down with Ingram. Kuhn getting goal line carries just kills his TD performance numbers. Then Fleener getting the 2 yard TD carry put the nail in the coffin. My season is not going down with Ingram. If I have to stream a RB I will. This week I will stream in J Rodgers.
need2know
Footballguy
No
I am leaving him in my lineup. He's dominating running the ball there, they are just getting tricky at the goal line. Sit him now and you may actually miss the game he gets multiple goal line looks
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
I sold low on him - Ingram/Pitta for TBenjamin/Kelce. Just got tired of waiting for him to pay off.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
Sure, he'll score 5-6 more TD's this year? Not even with confidence. One, he is only getting 12-13 rushes and his receiving is down too! If we get 13 rushes and 65 yards / 3-4 receptions and 30 yards between the 20's you cannot win your league! Oh, he got you a total 95 yards and now his TD percentage is dropping to .3 to .4. One TD every 2 1/2 to 3 games?
Kuhn has killed him and NO will play from behind too much!
Kuhn has killed him and NO will play from behind too much!
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Nero
Footballguy
He is very average. Most NFL starters and quite a few backups could replace his production with no problem. Pierre Thomas was a better player than Ingram will ever be. He is just holding the spot until the Saints get someone with plus talent.
The General
Footballguy
Has the 2 yard gain play down to science. Really hate this guy and his situation.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
23 yards at the half. 1 reception for 8 yards. F'n pitiful.
We knew what we were getting in a lead back on a pass heavy offense. But throw in his near criminal underuse in situations where a lead back would get the ball (WRs and TEs rushing from inside the 5, etc.) and Ingram not stepping himself up to make the most out of his limited touches, and you get a fantasy nightmare.
Can't believe how high I was on Ingram as a potential upside RB1, and how low his usage and effectiveness has been.
We knew what we were getting in a lead back on a pass heavy offense. But throw in his near criminal underuse in situations where a lead back would get the ball (WRs and TEs rushing from inside the 5, etc.) and Ingram not stepping himself up to make the most out of his limited touches, and you get a fantasy nightmare.
Can't believe how high I was on Ingram as a potential upside RB1, and how low his usage and effectiveness has been.
The General
Footballguy
They use him 3 plays in a row and he gets a TD for them. Is that so hard, Saints. Feed our guy.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
OK, so finally watched the game -- GB NFL Game Pass, an expensive standalone proposition but has been totally worth it to me this year.
Have to say that I think Ingram is getting a little unfairly lambasted here -- was obviously down on him myself in terms of performance, usage, etc. Concerns are still there and he isn't living up to my expectations, but from what I saw in this game, was a little more comfortable with what I saw in Ingram in terms of ROS.
Specifically:
1) Ingram runs hard. Really hard. He has nowhere the burst that Hightower has, but Ingram's specialty seems to be more as a one-cut back than a guy who reaches full breakaway speed on his first step. He consistently ran with power inside and outside, sought contact, kept his legs churning, and used his size and balance well.
2) He is not a 2-yard cloud of dust back from what I saw this weekend. His 3.8 YPC in this game is a little deceiving, as a few plays he was stuffed well behind the line as the Saints O line played like a giant turnstyle at times. If anything, Ingram impressed me by constantly falling forward and gaining extra yards after contact. He moved piles, kept churning, and was a hard load to pull down. Several times he reeled off consistent, solid 5-6 yard carries that, while not pretty, were really effective in moving chains.
3) That fumble was really not all on him. On the replay, you could see that he had the ball well-protected, and it was truly a right-on-the-money punch by Ron Parker that shook the ball loose. Defenders always seek to punch out the ball, and ultimately it is Ingram's fault, but it really was a lucky shot that landed perfectly, and I doubt Parker could have done it twice the same way, given the just right lucky trajectory and angle his fist had. Bottom line is still that Ingram needs to hold onto the ball, but that was more unfortunate luck than Ingram being careless.
4) The Saints, while having the highest pass play % in the league, actually looked fairly balanced this past game. Amazing to see that with so many receiving weapons, Payton and Brees actually were mixing the run in fairly well, staying committed to balance even when they were behind by two TDs. This may be unusual compared to other game plans this year, and it's certainly noticeable when Ingram's number isn't being called in the red zone, but I saw a team willing and able to use Ingram to get downfield.
5) He showed soft hands and the ability to catch a non-perfect ball running in the flat -- his receiving production wasn't stellar (5Y/C), but was highly dependable in key situations.
Some of the usage still concerns me -- was a time when the Saints were in red zone and they brought Cadet in for 3 consecutive plays, targeting him twice, I believe, in routes where he released in an out towards the right sideline. Not only were these plays short of the 1st down marker, but they were ineffective given the rush, where a delay with a power runner like Ingram would have gotten him to the second level with a better chance at a first down.
Ingram isn't going to break out, and will not be a true RB1 this year, but I think even with a potentially lower floor than expected at the beginning of the season, his floor is still there and dependable. His fantasy worth is really dependent on TDs, which if he's not being used in the red zone, will be hard to come by.
But was encouraged by what I saw in terms of the talent and ability still being there. It's just about opportunity.
Have to say that I think Ingram is getting a little unfairly lambasted here -- was obviously down on him myself in terms of performance, usage, etc. Concerns are still there and he isn't living up to my expectations, but from what I saw in this game, was a little more comfortable with what I saw in Ingram in terms of ROS.
Specifically:
1) Ingram runs hard. Really hard. He has nowhere the burst that Hightower has, but Ingram's specialty seems to be more as a one-cut back than a guy who reaches full breakaway speed on his first step. He consistently ran with power inside and outside, sought contact, kept his legs churning, and used his size and balance well.
2) He is not a 2-yard cloud of dust back from what I saw this weekend. His 3.8 YPC in this game is a little deceiving, as a few plays he was stuffed well behind the line as the Saints O line played like a giant turnstyle at times. If anything, Ingram impressed me by constantly falling forward and gaining extra yards after contact. He moved piles, kept churning, and was a hard load to pull down. Several times he reeled off consistent, solid 5-6 yard carries that, while not pretty, were really effective in moving chains.
3) That fumble was really not all on him. On the replay, you could see that he had the ball well-protected, and it was truly a right-on-the-money punch by Ron Parker that shook the ball loose. Defenders always seek to punch out the ball, and ultimately it is Ingram's fault, but it really was a lucky shot that landed perfectly, and I doubt Parker could have done it twice the same way, given the just right lucky trajectory and angle his fist had. Bottom line is still that Ingram needs to hold onto the ball, but that was more unfortunate luck than Ingram being careless.
4) The Saints, while having the highest pass play % in the league, actually looked fairly balanced this past game. Amazing to see that with so many receiving weapons, Payton and Brees actually were mixing the run in fairly well, staying committed to balance even when they were behind by two TDs. This may be unusual compared to other game plans this year, and it's certainly noticeable when Ingram's number isn't being called in the red zone, but I saw a team willing and able to use Ingram to get downfield.
5) He showed soft hands and the ability to catch a non-perfect ball running in the flat -- his receiving production wasn't stellar (5Y/C), but was highly dependable in key situations.
Some of the usage still concerns me -- was a time when the Saints were in red zone and they brought Cadet in for 3 consecutive plays, targeting him twice, I believe, in routes where he released in an out towards the right sideline. Not only were these plays short of the 1st down marker, but they were ineffective given the rush, where a delay with a power runner like Ingram would have gotten him to the second level with a better chance at a first down.
Ingram isn't going to break out, and will not be a true RB1 this year, but I think even with a potentially lower floor than expected at the beginning of the season, his floor is still there and dependable. His fantasy worth is really dependent on TDs, which if he's not being used in the red zone, will be hard to come by.
But was encouraged by what I saw in terms of the talent and ability still being there. It's just about opportunity.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I considered that somewhat less than awesome. Especially with 4 saints in my lineup, Brees,Snead & Thomas + Ingram.
didnt cost me a W, but it certainly doesn't raise Ingram's stock with Payton.
on NFL network they were showing the glare from coach as Ingram ran off the field. He wasn't happy.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Peyton has been teaching him a lesson for years then. Look, some coaches like to be known for being cute, smart, geniouses, etc. People need to understand this about drafting NO rbs.
This is the team that helped define the sproles type rb role. The only way rbs are going to be utilized is in a new and interesting way that makes Peyton look like an offensive genius. Nobody is going to call the NY jets HC an offensive genius for rushing Forte 30 times a game, yet he should be commended as that was key to beating a better Buffalo team last week. But the media will focus on forte, the line, the offensive line coach, etc. for those carries, not the hc.
Peyton wants to run the type of plays the media says, "wow, Peyton did it again. An unconventional,offensive mastermind chaging the game." Hence even when he rushes for 3tds the go to Khun cos Peyton outsmarted the other team with his genius.
Most bad coaching decisions are rooted in ego stroking, fear and preservation. Peyton is mostly fishing for the genius compliments, and in fairness, if he was fired there would be teams lining up to hire him.
People bashing Ingram are silly- he isn't "elite", but he's certainly an above average NFL RB.
As far as #4, I disagree- they passed 48 times vs. 22 rushing attempts last week, and in the 4th qtr. it was 21 pass attempts vs. 3 rushes. As you mentioned, they are the least balanced team in the NFL this season, and last week was no exception.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Fair points. I think in general, any team behind with those kinds of weapons and that kind of QB and system (spread/single back formations) is going to pass a lot more.
Guess I was surprised to see them not abandon the run altogether. Ingram was involved in 51% of the snaps out of all RBs, and was definitely present and getting his number called even as the team was trying to catch up and score. His use in that drive up until he fumbled is a great example of a situation where I thought the Saints would just use him in pass pro or not at all.
Guess I was surprised to see them not abandon the run altogether. Ingram was involved in 51% of the snaps out of all RBs, and was definitely present and getting his number called even as the team was trying to catch up and score. His use in that drive up until he fumbled is a great example of a situation where I thought the Saints would just use him in pass pro or not at all.
That's the thing- I consider Ingram one of their better weapons, but they continue to misuse him. For example, 51% of RB snaps is very low when compared to other quality starting RBs.
Who is rolling him out there vs. Seattle?
David Johnson did fine, but Ingram is no David Johnson.
Tempted to insert one of L. Murray or T. Pryor instead.
And oh, be on injury alert. NO is @SF next week. The fantasy gods tend to be cruel in these situations. An Ingram injury just prior to the best RB matchup on the planet would be fitting. Get Hightower before Sunday.
David Johnson did fine, but Ingram is no David Johnson.
Tempted to insert one of L. Murray or T. Pryor instead.
And oh, be on injury alert. NO is @SF next week. The fantasy gods tend to be cruel in these situations. An Ingram injury just prior to the best RB matchup on the planet would be fitting. Get Hightower before Sunday.
need2know
Footballguy
Playing ware and Bernard over him in one league
Playing ware, gordon, and Forte over him in another
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
SEA run D is still pretty stout -- ranked third overall going into last weekend holding opponents to under 80 yards/game with only 3 scores surrendered. That average took a hit from David Johnson, who is no ordinary back, and I think SEA presents a pretty tough match up even if the Saints are at home.
Debating sitting him for Latavius Murray or Devontae Booker (if CJ is confirmed out).
Debating sitting him for Latavius Murray or Devontae Booker (if CJ is confirmed out).
I have Ingram, Booker, and Murray for two RB slots this weekend.
If CJA is out, Booker is in that's for sure.
Murray vs. Ingram...tempted to go Murray. I just don't see Ingram getting a rushing TD and I doubt Payton's little screen pass off in the left flat around the 5 yard line will work either against that D. And if NO gets behind, say Hello to Cadet.
need2know
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
It's Hightower without a doubt. We even saw this last year when Ingram was placed on IR in December.
Spiller and Cadet are role-players; Murphy and Lasco are ST/pure depth.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He did,but Hightower passed him back last week apparently. Hard to say - it's the Saints. You never know what they'll do at RB.
ETA Lasco inactive - hamstring injury
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
need2know
Footballguy
I have him in both my leagues. listen to this insane rb depth in my one league.
Ware, gordon, ingram, forte, booker, j. rodgers
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
If Lasco did pass Hightower at some point, would be surprised -- certainly looking at utility and snap counts, Lasco has been in on just 3% of total offensive snaps and has rushed only 6 times compared to Hightower's 20 or so. Lasco is almost entirely ST.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I've got David Johnson as my RB1, Ingram, and both Asiata & McKinnon...that's it.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He did. It was widely reported last week after he was used as the clear RB2 & Hightower had only ST touches.
apparently Lasco also hurt his hammy.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
You mean the week before last, right? Hightower was 5/39 and 1/5 receiving vs KC. I'm not sure Lasco logged a snap.
Lasco did get more carries than Hightower in WK 6 vs CAR -- 2/5 on the ground and 1/4 in the air, and did seem to have the same number of carries against SD, but before that Lasco wasn't used in the running game.
Whether this was because of injury or not, seems to me that Hightower is the safer handcuff, as that's exactly what he was in the situation where Ingram went down last year. And he was fairly effective (if not spectacular) in that role.
